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Forums/Armchair-GM

Rebuild

Created by: Hamcity
Team: 2022-23 Vancouver Canucks
Initial Creation Date: Nov. 14, 2022
Published: Nov. 14, 2022
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Didn’t go too much into detail regarding cap implications. Just meant to give my opinion as to who I believe the Canucks should trade to kick off this rebuild and what types of assets they should look for in return.
Trades
1.
VAN
  1. 2024 2nd round pick (TOR)
2.
VAN
  1. Harrison, Brett
  2. Smith, Craig
  3. 2023 1st round pick (BOS)
3.
VAN
  1. Sillinger, Cole
  2. 2024 1st round pick (CBJ)
4.
VAN
  1. Walsh, Reilly
  2. 2023 2nd round pick (NJD)
5.
VAN
  1. Matier, Jack
  2. 2023 3rd round pick (NSH)
6.
VAN
  1. 2024 4th round pick (CGY)
7.
VAN
  1. 2023 5th round pick (OTT)
Buyouts
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2023
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the BOS
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the NJD
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the NSH
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the NYR
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the VAN
2024
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the CBJ
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the VAN
2025
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the VAN
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$82,500,000$59,906,667$1,250,000$2,165,000$22,593,333

Roster

Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$4,750,000$4,750,000
LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$7,350,000$7,350,000
C, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$6,650,000$6,650,000
RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RW, LW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
C
RFA - 2
Logo of the Boston Bruins
$3,100,000$3,100,000
RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$891,667$891,667 (Performance Bonus$300,000$300K)
LW, RW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$762,500$762,500
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$883,750$883,750 (Performance Bonus$82,500$82K)
RW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$883,750$883,750 (Performance Bonus$82,500$82K)
C
RFA - 2
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$1,000,000$1,000,000
RW, C
UFA - 3
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$825,000$825,000
LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$762,500$762,500
RW, C
RFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$7,850,000$7,850,000
LD
UFA - 5
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$1,800,000$1,800,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
UFA - 4
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$7,260,000$7,260,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$750,000$750,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$762,500$762,500
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$850,000$850,000
LD
RFA - 2
Logo of the New Jersey Devils
$925,000$925,000
RD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$1,350,000$1,350,000
LD
RFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$2,500,000$2,500,000
RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$1,500,000$1,500,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1

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Should the Canucks rebuild?
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Nov. 14, 2022 at 7:09 a.m.
#26
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Quoting: Juiceman
Let’s be real. If he were a UFA this offseason, I guarantee you a GM would “overpay” for Miller. 8 mil for a point per game winger isn’t outrageous. With the cap going up, it’s not like he has an albatross contract right now


Quoting: Hamcity
Canucks fans want him and many others traded bc it’s time to rebuild, simple as that. Doesn’t mean he isn’t useful to a contender who’s only worried about winning now, not cap troubles later


I really think you guys and similar Canuck fans neglect the implications of trading JT Miller. Miller just committed the next 7 years of his life there. What does that say about the organization when they are willing to move him a few months after he committed to them? It’s lousy thinking he should even be traded right now. If I were a player and I saw JT get traded this season right before his new contract kicks in, I am surely second guessing if I would want to play there because what if they are so ready to easily dump me? You can arguing signing Miller in the offeseason was a mistake, I for one think it was because the rebuild clearly wasn’t over, however the team committed to him because they believe in him and rightfully so. Miller is a great player and Vancouver fans need to accept he will be on the team for the forseeable future.
Nov. 14, 2022 at 8:38 a.m.
#27
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Quoting: Ajp_18
I wouldn’t take non playoff team to mean the worst team in the league. It would be sick, but also likely they can’t afford it unless Horvat took a sweetheart extension where he was paid under 7 mil, so they could also fix the major defensive issues they currently have.


Fair points. I’m sure Van would need to take a contract to make it work then. Also by non playoff teams, it was probably meant as in ones closer to the bar, sure, but I personally don’t think CBJ is that far off despite their start. I agree tho this probably isn’t the most likely outcome. All in good fun!
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Nov. 14, 2022 at 8:39 a.m.
#28
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Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
Getting him last year at the deadline though offered terrific value, you get him for 2 playoff runs and then evaluate what to do. Now he comes with 7 years of term at the age of 30. That's major major risk and with how he looks this year, that risk is even greater.


Having him for only one run versus two at 5.25 does decrease his value, I agree. We shall see!
Nov. 14, 2022 at 9:09 a.m.
#29
Craig Laughlin Fan
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Feels like you could get more value for Kuzmenko than Matier and a 3rd. I can see teams lining up out the door to pay a 2nd and B prospect or more for him come the deadline.
Hamcity liked this.
Nov. 14, 2022 at 9:09 a.m.
#30
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Quoting: NoVaSpartan
Feels like you could get more value for Kuzmenko than Matier and a 3rd. I can see teams lining up out the door to pay a 2nd and B prospect or more for him come the deadline.


That’d be nice!
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Nov. 14, 2022 at 9:55 a.m.
#31
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Likes: 119
Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
A guy who played the 7/8 defenceman on Tampa and has been sent to the minors by Vancouver and Tampa in recent years and is 32 is not worth a 2nd.


He's on for 40 points so far, even if that slows to 30 it's solid for the guy who LEADS the NHL in hits and has TWO Stanley Cup rings
Hamcity liked this.
Nov. 14, 2022 at 10:12 a.m.
#32
Owly
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Likes: 932
Quoting: Turkish_Canuck
He's on for 40 points so far, even if that slows to 30 it's solid for the guy who LEADS the NHL in hits and has TWO Stanley Cup rings


There are a lot of players with 2 cup rings that just happened to be on a good team as a depth player. Schenn is one of them and is a 33 year old with a career high of 22 points he scored 10 years ago.
Nov. 14, 2022 at 10:55 a.m.
#33
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Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
There are a lot of players with 2 cup rings that just happened to be on a good team as a depth player. Schenn is one of them and is a 33 year old with a career high of 22 points he scored 10 years ago.


What's the betting Schenn beats 22 points this season?
Nov. 14, 2022 at 11:16 a.m.
#34
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Quoting: KDev
I really think you guys and similar Canuck fans neglect the implications of trading JT Miller. Miller just committed the next 7 years of his life there. What does that say about the organization when they are willing to move him a few months after he committed to them? It’s lousy thinking he should even be traded right now. If I were a player and I saw JT get traded this season right before his new contract kicks in, I am surely second guessing if I would want to play there because what if they are so ready to easily dump me? You can arguing signing Miller in the offeseason was a mistake, I for one think it was because the rebuild clearly wasn’t over, however the team committed to him because they believe in him and rightfully so. Miller is a great player and Vancouver fans need to accept he will be on the team for the forseeable future.


I agree that the impact on reputation is often neglected regarding moves like this, so it is an important consideration. However, I would also argue that the Canucks reputation as an organization is hurting anyways and that the quickest way back to becoming a contender solves most of these problems. Players like to play for winning teams!
Nov. 14, 2022 at 11:23 a.m.
#35
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Quoting: delneggs
Lets just state this.......JT is a very, very good hockey player and every GM and coach in the NHL would be happy to have him on their team. That is a given. But, every GM has to manage the salary cap and that is where the problem with JT starts and ends. What GM wants to take on a 7-year contract that is an overpay by even Canuck fans estimations? On top of that, you expect that GM to throw in a 1st round draft pick and another player. It's absurd. Unless there is a GM out there that wants to lose his job, JT is going no where.


It’s not an overpay by Canucks estimations. That’s where your missing my point. The only reason the Canucks would be trying to trade him in this instance is because they are trying to acquire assets and lose games as part of a rebuild. I do not think 8 million for a first line, point per game+ winger in 2022 is an overpay. I think it’s the right contract at the wrong time for the Canucks in their competitive cycle.
Nov. 14, 2022 at 12:25 p.m.
#36
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Quoting: Hamcity
It’s not an overpay by Canucks estimations. That’s where your missing my point. The only reason the Canucks would be trying to trade him in this instance is because they are trying to acquire assets and lose games as part of a rebuild. I do not think 8 million for a first line, point per game+ winger in 2022 is an overpay. I think it’s the right contract at the wrong time for the Canucks in their competitive cycle.


You may not think its an overpay, but that is just you, I said fanS. In this thread alone, a Canuck fan alluded to it being an overpayment for Miller at $8m/year for 7 years. That's why fans from every other team say no thanks when a trade to their team is posted. It's not that they don't want Miller its because they don't want his contract ruining their salary cap for years to come. You can dream all you want, but that is reality.

And why would a franchise sign a guy to a 7-year deal almost 13% of the current cap limit if they intend to rebuild? What is the point of that? If they intended to rebuild, they would have taken Chytil, Lundquist and a 1st round pick from the Rangers for him two seasons ago at the TDL. By signing him long term to his very expensive contract, they signaled they believe in their group, no? So that is changed in 14 or 15 games?

Bottom line is the ONLY way they can move him is to retain salary on a contract that hasn't even started yet, and that just isn't going to happen. Rebuild around him is the only reasonable option.
Nov. 14, 2022 at 12:48 p.m.
#37
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Quoting: delneggs
You may not think its an overpay, but that is just you, I said fanS. In this thread alone, a Canuck fan alluded to it being an overpayment for Miller at $8m/year for 7 years. That's why fans from every other team say no thanks when a trade to their team is posted. It's not that they don't want Miller its because they don't want his contract ruining their salary cap for years to come. You can dream all you want, but that is reality.

And why would a franchise sign a guy to a 7-year deal almost 13% of the current cap limit if they intend to rebuild? What is the point of that? If they intended to rebuild, they would have taken Chytil, Lundquist and a 1st round pick from the Rangers for him two seasons ago at the TDL. By signing him long term to his very expensive contract, they signaled they believe in their group, no? So that is changed in 14 or 15 games?

Bottom line is the ONLY way they can move him is to retain salary on a contract that hasn't even started yet, and that just isn't going to happen. Rebuild around him is the only reasonable option.


They signed the deal because they did what what the Canucks have been doing for the last 10 years, which is over-estimate how good the team is as a whole and how close they are to being competitive. They made a mistake, and I do believe they will try and fix it. You do not rebuild around a player that is 30. I still don’t think the contract itself is that bad, besides being a little long. It does carry risk in that way, but I think some contenders will consider it if they believe it pushes them over the top. To some contenders, as we’ve seen throughout history, future cap flexibility is not as important as achieving the ultimate goal of winning the cup. In the existence of this interest, I guess we can agree to disagree. Time will tell!
Nov. 14, 2022 at 1:00 p.m.
#38
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Quoting: Hamcity
They signed the deal because they did what what the Canucks have been doing for the last 10 years, which is over-estimate how good the team is as a whole and how close they are to being competitive. They made a mistake, and I do believe they will try and fix it. You do not rebuild around a player that is 30. I still don’t think the contract itself is that bad, besides being a little long. It does carry risk in that way, but I think some contenders will consider it if they believe it pushes them over the top. To some contenders, as we’ve seen throughout history, future cap flexibility is not as important as achieving the ultimate goal of winning the cup. In the existence of this interest, I guess we can agree to disagree. Time will tell!


Like I said before, I will check back with you once a year for the next 7 year to see where JT is playing hockey. My bet is Vancouver.
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Nov. 14, 2022 at 1:34 p.m.
#39
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Quoting: delneggs
Like I said before, I will check back with you once a year for the next 7 year to see where JT is playing hockey. My bet is Vancouver.


And you might be right. But I hope not!
Nov. 14, 2022 at 2:09 p.m.
#40
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Quoting: Hamcity
And you might be right. But I hope not!


You said teams don't build around 30 year olds, and maybe so. But what team signs a player (their highest scoring player no less) to a 7-year contract extension and then trades that player before the new contract even starts? The answer is none. The Canucks made a mistake NOT trading JT at the last two TDL's if their intention is to rebuild. And now they have to live with the consequences of that mistake. Canuck fans may not like it, but that's reality. I didn't like it when Sather gave Girardi a huge contract when he turned 30, but he did it, and the Rangers are still paying Girardi for that buy out. It's called consequences, and like it or not, the Canucks will feel pain in any JT trade. They certainly won't be trading him and his full contract plus getting players and picks, that is just absurd. They are better off keeping him now and trying to rebuild around him.
 
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