SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Armchair-GM

Killing the future

Created by: Chabotrrorr
Team: 2022-23 Calgary Flames
Initial Creation Date: Nov. 17, 2022
Published: Nov. 17, 2022
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Free Agent Signings
CREATEDYEARSCAP HIT
Lucic, Milan
1$1,294,000
Karlsson, Erik
5$5,606,250
Trades
1.
CGY
  1. O'Reilly, Ryan ($3,750,000 retained)
STL
  1. Backlund, Mikael ($483,752 retained)
  2. Yelesin, Alexander [Reserve List]
  3. Zary, Connor
  4. 2023 2nd round pick (CGY)
  5. 2024 1st round pick (CGY)
Additional Details:
Tell me if I need to add more
2.
MTL
  1. Lucic, Milan
  2. Meloche, Nicolas
  3. Zohorna, Radim
  4. 2024 2nd round pick (CGY)
  5. 2024 4th round pick (CGY)
Additional Details:
Promise to buy out Lucic.

Tell me if I need to add more (or less)
3.
CGY
  1. 2023 6th round pick (TOR)
TOR
  1. Lewis, Trevor
Additional Details:
Anywhere
4.
CGY
  1. Karlsson, Erik ($4,025,000 retained)
SJS
  1. Gilbert, Dennis
  2. Sergeev, Arsenii [Reserve List]
  3. Zadorov, Nikita
  4. 2023 1st round pick (CGY)
  5. 2024 3rd round pick (CGY)
  6. 2025 2nd round pick (CGY)
Additional Details:
Tell me the value
5.
CGY
BUF
  1. Karlsson, Erik
  2. Kerins, Rory
  3. Pospisil, Martin
  4. 2023 4th round pick (CGY)
Additional Details:
1.86875M retained
6.
CGY
ANA
    These are just horrible ideas. Please find a way to fix them. Have fun!
    Retained Salary Transactions
    DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
    2023
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the CGY
    2024
    Logo of the CGY
    2025
    Logo of the FLA
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the CGY
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    20$82,500,000$67,021,502$0$0$15,478,498
    Left WingCentreRight Wing
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $5,900,000$5,900,000
    LW, RW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $4,850,000$4,850,000
    C, RW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $2,125,000$2,125,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $5,800,000$5,800,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the St. Louis Blues
    -$1,875,000-$1,875,000
    C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $2,300,000$2,300,000
    LW, RW, C
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $4,900,000$4,900,000
    RW, LW
    NTC
    UFA - 5
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $7,000,000$7,000,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 7
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $5,500,000$5,500,000
    RW, LW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 5
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $1,300,000$1,300,000
    C
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $762,500$762,500
    LW, C
    UFA - 2
    Lucic, Milan
    $1,294,000$1,294,000
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $3,250,000$3,250,000
    LD/RD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $1,125,000$1,125,000
    RD
    M-NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $6,000,000$6,000,000
    G
    NMC
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $1,237,500$1,237,500
    LD
    M-NTC
    UFA - 2
    Karlsson, Erik
    $5,606,250$5,606,250
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $750,000$750,000
    G
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $912,500$912,500
    LD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $4,550,000$4,550,000
    RD
    UFA - 4
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $2,500,000$2,500,000
    LD/RD
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $750,000$750,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    Taxi Squad
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $863,333$863,333 ($0$0$0$0)
    LW
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $750,000$750,000 ($0$0$0$0)
    RW
    UFA - 1

    Embed Code

    • To display this team on another website or blog, add this iFrame to the appropriate page
    • Customize the height attribute in the iFrame code below to fit your website appropriately. Minimum recommended: 400px.

    Text-Embed

    Click to Highlight
    Nov. 17, 2022 at 3:04 p.m.
    #26
    Subbanator
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jul. 2017
    Posts: 7,318
    Likes: 3,331
    Quoting: Dr_Invictus
    None of the NHL "insiders" said Josh Anderson is valued at a 1st and a high prospect, and even if they did, it doesn't change the cap reality. If Calgary traded for him, then they would have to shed his 5.5M salary, at minimum, next year. Trading Lucic means nothing because his cap hit is fully absorbed by weegar and Huberdeau's extensions. These are basic facts, not opinions from Twitter. Anderson's stats are facts, not opinions. His age is a fact, not an opinion. So if your "insiders" are choosing to ignore that, then you need to question the value of that opinion. Moreover, no reputable insider has recently stated that Anderson is valued as high as so many Habs fans are desperate to have him valued.


    Literally Elliot Friedman, Frank Serivalle and Peirre Lebrun have all stated that MTL turned down significant offers for Anderson. This isn't something just made up by Habs fans.

    And once again you can say what you want about stats but you still see teams give up significant assets for guys like Chairot, Foligno, Savard, Risto, hell even a washed up Rick Nash got a first and a prospect. Physicality is still something the old boys club that runs the league values and Anderson is apparently seen as a power forward.

    Stop acting like NHL GMs are out here being perfect in their trades. I'm not even saying he is worth it, I'm just giving legit reasoning why Habs fans tell others his value is that high.
    Nov. 17, 2022 at 3:06 p.m.
    #27
    Thread Starter
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Oct. 2020
    Posts: 1,673
    Likes: 411
    Quoting: Samsquanch14
    I think everyone just gets too caught up in "points". If he was a leading goal-scorer, he'd be making what Suzuki makes. It's funny when those who don't watch all the games try to analyze someone else's games. Analytics are great and all, but they don't tell the whole story. What people tend to miss with Anderson is that he is a valuable asset being a fast power-forward who can put up decent points for being rotated through 2nd & 3rd line. Not only that, he creates turnovers and creates plenty of opportunities. For example, the analytics don't tell if his linemates are in the right places to convert from the opportunities. He's not a bad player at all and I agree with being paid like 1m over, but other than that, he proves his worth. Everyone just assumes that if you're not lighting it up, then you're not good. That's absurd because everyone has their play-style and roles on the team. To say you'd rather have Lucic over Anderson...come on now, talk about age (when 28 isn't even that old). I think what the other person is saying is that Anderson does have value and GM's would want someone like him, a 1st? Not sure, but something decent in return would come back. I don't watch Flames games, so I don't comment on who's ass and not ass because they can play an important role that I don't see on NHL Network's highlight reels.

    As for help on this to the creator, I think there are too many pieces in the trade. Can probably get away with a decent prospect with a 2nd & 3rd


    Thank you!
    Nov. 17, 2022 at 3:27 p.m.
    #28
    Dr_Invictus
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 2,276
    Likes: 878
    Quoting: Subbanator7667
    Literally Elliot Friedman, Frank Serivalle and Peirre Lebrun have all stated that MTL turned down significant offers for Anderson. This isn't something just made up by Habs fans.

    And once again you can say what you want about stats but you still see teams give up significant assets for guys like Chairot, Foligno, Savard, Risto, hell even a washed up Rick Nash got a first and a prospect. Physicality is still something the old boys club that runs the league values and Anderson is apparently seen as a power forward.

    Stop acting like NHL GMs are out here being perfect in their trades. I'm not even saying he is worth it, I'm just giving legit reasoning why Habs fans tell others his value is that high.


    "Significant" is an arbitrary term and relative to the player. A 5th round pick is "significant," for Trevor Lewis. Conversely, a 2nd round pick is insignificant for Connor McDavid. I would also note that all of those "significant" offers were prior to the trade deadline last year and when Montreal thought he was going to improve. He didn't.
    Nov. 17, 2022 at 3:48 p.m.
    #29
    Subbanator
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jul. 2017
    Posts: 7,318
    Likes: 3,331
    Quoting: Dr_Invictus
    "Significant" is an arbitrary term and relative to the player. A 5th round pick is "significant," for Trevor Lewis. Conversely, a 2nd round pick is insignificant for Connor McDavid. I would also note that all of those "significant" offers were prior to the trade deadline last year and when Montreal thought he was going to improve. He didn't.


    Actually they come from the trade deadline and the draft. Islanders were reportedly looking at Romanov or Anderson for the 13th pick, MTL chose to go with Romanov.

    Like I said, you can hate it but big power forwards will always have a place in NHL GMs hearts for reasons that go beyond advanced stats or even basic logic
    Nov. 17, 2022 at 3:49 p.m.
    #30
    Dr_Invictus
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 2,276
    Likes: 878
    Quoting: Samsquanch14
    I think everyone just gets too caught up in "points". If he was a leading goal-scorer, he'd be making what Suzuki makes. It's funny when those who don't watch all the games try to analyze someone else's games. Analytics are great and all, but they don't tell the whole story. What people tend to miss with Anderson is that he is a valuable asset being a fast power-forward who can put up decent points for being rotated through 2nd & 3rd line. Not only that, he creates turnovers and creates plenty of opportunities. For example, the analytics don't tell if his linemates are in the right places to convert from the opportunities. He's not a bad player at all and I agree with being paid like 1m over, but other than that, he proves his worth. Everyone just assumes that if you're not lighting it up, then you're not good. That's absurd because everyone has their play-style and roles on the team. To say you'd rather have Lucic over Anderson...come on now, talk about age (when 28 isn't even that old). I think what the other person is saying is that Anderson does have value and GM's would want someone like him, a 1st? Not sure, but something decent in return would come back. I don't watch Flames games, so I don't comment on who's ass and not ass because they can play an important role that I don't see on NHL Network's highlight reels.

    As for help on this to the creator, I think there are too many pieces in the trade. Can probably get away with a decent prospect with a 2nd & 3rd


    There are plenty of statistics which indicate a player's value while on the ice relative to other players. I don't think you can make a rational argument that Anderson makes good chances, but the rest of his team just can't capitalize. He has the 7th worse Corsi percentage on the Habs. Anderson is the equivalent of Coleman on the flames, grossly overpaid for his production because a similar player can be found for less AAV. I would absolutely take Lucic over Anderson because there is only one year left on his contract. It's also well established that peak production's bell curve has a median age of 28. Players decline in production past 28. The few exceptions don't discount the distribution: Giordano for example, started later than most defensemen and got better past 28. Crosby has been very consistent...Lindstrom...etc. they are still a very small subset and Andersons numbers have showed an earlier decline.

    I think for a team to be truly competitive they need to have an above average level of production per skater relative to the individual AAV average per skater at any given time. So for 20 dressed skaters on any given game, that gives you an average of 4.125M per skater with a caphit of 82.5M. With two goalies you would need a combined minimum of .90SV%. For the 18 skaters you would need to be on average 1.24 Goals above replacement (above the league average GAR). That works out to spending 3.33M per GAR for any given skater. For example, if you have a skater on your bottom 6 D, like Vlasic at 7M per year with a -3.4GAR it produces negative 2.06M per GAR. Basically, it just means that other players need to have higher GAR relative to every dollar you spend on them against the cap. So for San Jose, Timo Meier had the highest GAR (+16) at an AAV of 6M. His GAR only costs San Jose 375K per GAR. It certainly offsets Vlasic, but you can see how much drag it puts on a team having a few bad contracts. So yes, having a player whose production is far below what their AAV per player would dictate, is a net drag on the team. I'm using the GAR stats based of an analysis Travis Yost did on what it takes for a team to be a contender, which he based off the stats of playoff vs non playoff teams, and the ultimate winners year over year. It's a good read. I suppose you could use WAR, as well for the goalies. I just used SV% for simplicity.
    Nov. 17, 2022 at 3:51 p.m.
    #31
    Mr.
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jan. 2022
    Posts: 3,747
    Likes: 1,235
    Quoting: sens65
    He's a guy with one 40-point season in his career with a 0.44 PP/G making $5.5 million in a league where almost every team is cap crunched.

    Habs fans are the only people that think he has any value whatsoever.


    We're not the only ppl, it's actually the opinion and actual knowledge of every respectable insider
    Nov. 17, 2022 at 9:05 p.m.
    #32
    Dr_Invictus
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 2,276
    Likes: 878
    Quoting: Subbanator7667
    Actually they come from the trade deadline and the draft. Islanders were reportedly looking at Romanov or Anderson for the 13th pick, MTL chose to go with Romanov.

    Like I said, you can hate it but big power forwards will always have a place in NHL GMs hearts for reasons that go beyond advanced stats or even basic logic


    Quoting: Subbanator7667
    Actually they come from the trade deadline and the draft. Islanders were reportedly looking at Romanov or Anderson for the 13th pick, MTL chose to go with Romanov.

    Like I said, you can hate it but big power forwards will always have a place in NHL GMs hearts for reasons that go beyond advanced stats or even basic logic


    Nobody said I hate power forwards. Anderson is no Jerome Iginla, so stop pretending he is top tier because of insider anecdotes. For every 20 rumours, 1 of them will ever materialize. And yes GMs make terrible trades all the time. But the Montreal fanbase wouldn't be so excited about these rumours if he actually had that value. They are excited because he doesn't have that value and they think they will get a haul for an otherwise bad signing. Calgary fans would be doing the same thing if "rumours" said that a team wanted Coleman.
    Nov. 19, 2022 at 7:47 p.m.
    #33
    Habs4Ever
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: May 2022
    Posts: 4,297
    Likes: 1,737
    Quoting: SevenLeg
    Other teams generally don't keep asking about supposed cap dumps.





    @leafs101
    Nov. 19, 2022 at 8:14 p.m.
    #34
    Bedard23
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: May 2021
    Posts: 9,294
    Likes: 4,476
    Quoting: TheRealisticGuy
    You have zero hockey knowledge
    Why comment ?
    We don’t care you don’t like his contract, GMs don’t sees him like you do


    I mean nhl gms and coaches know more then we do so what can we expect
    Nov. 19, 2022 at 10:14 p.m.
    #35
    Hop on the Slaftrain
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Feb. 2019
    Posts: 16,167
    Likes: 20,491
    Quoting: TheRealisticGuy
    leafs101


    Even when you show them that, they still come up with stuff like "he's just click baiting" as if Pierre LeBrun, the most trusted insider, had nothing else to do.
    TheRealisticGuy liked this.
    Nov. 28, 2022 at 11:37 a.m.
    #36
    Habs4Ever
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: May 2022
    Posts: 4,297
    Likes: 1,737
    Quoting: TheRealisticGuy
    leafs101


    Quoting: SevenLeg
    Even when you show them that, they still come up with stuff like "he's just click baiting" as if Pierre LeBrun, the most trusted insider, had nothing else to do.


    @Oliver_Wahlstrom look above at the Pierre LeBrun Tweet

    I will tag everyone who I have an argument with lol
     
    Reply
    To create a post please Login or Register
    Question:
    Options:
    Add Option
    Submit Poll