This idea that the Leafs are going to trade Holl needs to end. He's been their most used defensemen the past 2 games with Rielly out. The team trusts him with bigger minutes than Giordano or the young guys like Liljegren. He may be this years Gardiner/Ceci/Barrie/Hainsey/I'm sure I'm missing a few names with fans choosing him to hate among the defensemen but he's not going anywhere.

Not even close to enough. Start with a 2023 1st and a better prospect, like Niemela

He's being used because they have no other choice. He's been better than he was a couple weeks ago, but Benn has been far better, and we haven't seen Timmins play yet.

He's being used because they have no other choice. He's been better than he was a couple weeks ago, but Benn has been far better, and we haven't seen Timmins play yet.

Sure there are choices. There are Sandin and Liljegren. He's even playing more than his partner Giordano. Holl has the teams trust over half of their starting defensemen. Hell, before the injuries he saw as much 5on5 time as Rielly. He's not going anywhere. Holl isn't even required to be moved in this AGM. Send Simmonds down and keep Holl.

Niemela's not happening. He's likely an untouchable who doesn't move for anything less than a bonafide star.

And you aren’t getting Horvat without a 2023 1st and a better prospect than Hirvonen

Canucks won't move Horvat without Niemeia or Liljegren and 2023 1st coming the other way, this is still quaintly over quality

I agree, he's likely best used as the 3 RD or in a perfect world as the #7 but he's definitely a good player in a reduced role and doesn't kill you if he plays more.

Liljegren is a pipe dream for you guys.

Don't overestimate the amount of leverage the Canucks have. He's a really good Middle 6 forward, on an expiring contract, who through no fault of his own has had a frustrating career in Vancouver.

There is going to be many teams interested in him, asking a pick for this year and a good prospect is in line what his value would be at past TDL

Can't CF followers by a little creative.? 95% of Horvat trades are to the Leafs......who really don't need him. compared to other needs. Please trade Horvat to team that needs a centre.
And playing Timmins just to replace Holl negates any benefit of making the trade for Horvat, never mind giving up assets to obtain Horvat.

This is literally worse than the first one. No 2023 first, no top prospect. Yikes...

"Middle 6 forward" Yeah, I'm sure that is what the league is viewing Horvat as right now. Just another middle 6 forward

He is though, really good player. 50-60 points per season, doesn't have any major weaknesses to his game, but doesn't excel enough to be considered a star.

I'll say he's a pretty good 2nd liner, and a really great 3rd liner.

If Canucks are taking that much cap back then imo the pick and prospect need to be better. Take out Holl, make it a 2023 1st, and it’s fair

Fair enough

He is a high end second liner. Give me a list of 50-60 point third line centers... Obviously he isn't a top player in the NHL but 16 goals in his first 20 games of the season isn't considered excelling?