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2022-23 NHL Season Discussion Thread #6: No More Summer of Dorion

Dec. 11, 2022 at 10:18 p.m.
#1101
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Quoting: LIRIK
FI1__LeX0AsNnkW.jpg

All GMs didn't claim him. They all stupid?


He played literally half a season. 16% quality of competition btw
Dec. 11, 2022 at 10:19 p.m.
#1102
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Quoting: Juiceman
You really really DO NOT want to start an argument about eye test vs advanced stats. You want me to list all of the players who looked good by the eye test but ended up becoming nothing?


Good, i'll make a list of all the players with good advanced stats who ended up becoming nothing too.
Dec. 11, 2022 at 10:19 p.m.
#1103
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Quoting: LIRIK
FI1__LeX0AsNnkW.jpg

All GMs didn't claim him. They all stupid?


Just looked up the context to this Jfresh card.





You have no clue how to use Jfresh cards. You really went on google images didn't you? Not even trying to find the background information about the Jfresh card. Disappointing
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Dec. 11, 2022 at 10:20 p.m.
#1104
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Quoting: LIRIK
Good, i'll make a list of all the players with good advanced stats who ended up becoming nothing too.


Pitlick didn't really have that good stats. It is severely inflated by his 46% shooting success rate
Dec. 11, 2022 at 10:20 p.m.
#1105
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Xhekaj’s play style doesn’t really translate to more than that, he’ll be a fan favourite, he already is and his physicality does make his flashy but talent wise, he’s a 3rd pair guy


There was also questions about Romanov being a 2nd or a 3rd pairing D. Give Xhekaj more games before defining him as a 3rd pair enforcer.
Dec. 11, 2022 at 10:21 p.m.
#1106
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Quoting: Juiceman
You really really DO NOT want to start an argument about eye test vs advanced stats. You want me to list all of the players who looked good by the eye test but ended up becoming nothing?


Hmm, I’m sure we could make a list of all analytics greats who didn’t become much either, no method is perfect but none is better than the other, both are important and both are subjective ( opinions + public models aren’t all the same and people may read the differently )
Dec. 11, 2022 at 10:22 p.m.
#1107
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Hmm, I’m sure we could make a list of all analytics greats who didn’t become much either, no method is perfect but none is better than the other, both are important and both are subjective ( opinions + public models aren’t all the same and people may read the differently )


How many players who had good analytics over a large sample size really became nothing? Most of the time it is a player who had a good 20 game stint and then dissapeared.
Dec. 11, 2022 at 10:25 p.m.
#1108
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Quoting: Juiceman
How many players who had good analytics over a large sample size really became nothing? Most of the time it is a player who had a good 20 game stint and then dissapeared.


Dadonov?
Dec. 11, 2022 at 10:30 p.m.
#1109
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Quoting: LIRIK
"Mr Making up stuff people didn't say" telling me i'm losing credibility? Hilarious...


What? You first brought up a Jfresh card with ZERO context. You have brought absolutely nothing to this conversation. When did I make things up? Did you not say that eye test is better than advanced stats? Did I not provide context to the Pitlick Jfresh card? Did I not answer why Dadanov is not good anymore? Jeez..

You have got to be trolling right?
Dec. 11, 2022 at 10:35 p.m.
#1110
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Edited Dec. 11, 2022 at 10:45 p.m.
Quoting: Juiceman
What? You first brought up a Jfresh card with ZERO context. You have brought absolutely nothing to this conversation. When did I make things up? Did you not say that eye test is better than advanced stats? Did I not provide context to the Pitlick Jfresh card? Did I not answer why Dadanov is not good anymore? Jeez..

You have got to be trolling right?


We had this discussion about you making up stuff i didn't say about a week ago. I told you to stop putting words in my mouth. I can go get that conversation if you want.

My point is hockey isn't all about advanced stats. Your point is hockey is 100% about advanced stats.

I'm trying to debate with you about analytics and you keep insulting me. I'm done arguing with you.
Dec. 11, 2022 at 10:36 p.m.
#1111
WentWughes
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Quoting: capsfan2121
Can we delete Josh Anderson of this website


After he gets traded for a 1st +
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Dec. 11, 2022 at 11:05 p.m.
#1112
v5 Minnesota GM
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
After he gets traded for a 1st +


Best one yet.
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Dec. 11, 2022 at 11:25 p.m.
#1113
Hakuna Matata
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Edited Dec. 11, 2022 at 11:32 p.m.
Quoting: LIRIK
FI1__LeX0AsNnkW.jpg

All GMs didn't claim him. They all stupid?


Thats the old chart from when he was claimed by MTL. I dont think Jfresh posted this years for him but got to think there was massive regression otherwise he would have probs been claimed again
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Dec. 11, 2022 at 11:28 p.m.
#1114
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Quoting: Devil
This season discussion thread has gone to s***

Where did all the memes and fun go


Gotta hid them now. Maybe start a new season thread for just the fun stuff. But mask it with a title like “new article 50.5, sub chapter C of CBA and how it effects future payroll financing” or some other legalese.

And that use that for all you best material.
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Dec. 11, 2022 at 11:30 p.m.
#1115
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
Gotta hid them now. Maybe start a new season thread for just the fun stuff. But mask it with a title like “new article 50.5, sub chapter C of CBA and how it effects future payroll financing” or some other legalese.

And that use that for all you best material.


Really need to consider doing this lmao. I created these threads to have intelligent conversations with adults who recognize there bias vs there team and are able to discuss without bias and ego. No idea how to do that anymore on this thread.
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Dec. 11, 2022 at 11:33 p.m.
#1116
Hakuna Matata
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
Gotta hid them now. Maybe start a new season thread for just the fun stuff. But mask it with a title like “new article 50.5, sub chapter C of CBA and how it effects future payroll financing” or some other legalese.

And that use that for all you best material.


I was thinking of calling it thank god for a hard salary cap or fanning out the flames
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Dec. 11, 2022 at 11:38 p.m.
#1117
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Quoting: LIRIK
We had this discussion about you making up stuff i didn't say about a week ago. I told you to stop putting words in my mouth. I can go get that conversation if you want.

My point is hockey isn't all about advanced stats. Your point is hockey is 100% about advanced stats.

I'm trying to debate with you about analytics and you keep insulting me. I'm done arguing with you.


I don't think I even knew you on Capfriendly a week ago, and thank god I didn't. Advanced stats are much much much more reliable than the eye test because it doesn't take a genius to see how judging a player using the eye test can easily be swayed by bias.
Dec. 11, 2022 at 11:51 p.m.
#1118
v5 Minnesota GM
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Quoting: Juiceman
I don't think I even knew you on Capfriendly a week ago, and thank god I didn't. Advanced stats are much much much more reliable than the eye test because it doesn't take a genius to see how judging a player using the eye test can easily be swayed by bias.


If you Hate him so much, whyd you bring him in here?
This beef between you and him is worse than me and dev lol
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Dec. 12, 2022 at 12:16 a.m.
#1119
NoMoreJustin
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“Analytics are god”

“The eye test…”

I’m an old guy and I’ll even admit I under analytics are here to stay. However, they are now the lazy default for people on the internet. I understand we can’t watch every single game every night but I’m not going to look at some guy on twitter to tell me if player x on Winnipeg is any good or if player y on Nashville has advanced states equal to player z on Chicago. You’re better off reading about a team and their players by reading their local sport media than trusting national sports outlets or random people on twitter.
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Dec. 12, 2022 at 12:18 a.m.
#1120
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Quoting: LloydminsterLarry
“Analytics are god”

“The eye test…”

I’m an old guy and I’ll even admit I under analytics are here to stay. However, they are now the lazy default for people on the internet. I understand we can’t watch every single game every night but I’m not going to look at some guy on twitter to tell me if player x on Winnipeg is any good or if player y on Nashville has advanced states equal to player z on Chicago. You’re better off reading about a team and their players by reading their local sport media than trusting national sports outlets or random people on twitter.


Looking at both is the best. Analytics don't take every aspect of the game into consideration.
Dec. 12, 2022 at 12:33 a.m.
#1121
Craig Laughlin Fan
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In the middle of all this, Clayton Keller’s hat trick goes under the radar tonight.

Arizona may still be a bad team with a lot of flaws, but they seem a lot more cohesive than they did at this point last year. Hats off to Andre Tourigny for at least getting them somewhat pointed in the right direction (though they’ve still got a loooooooong way to go)
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Dec. 12, 2022 at 2:20 a.m.
#1122
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Quoting: DucharmetheDOMinator
If you Hate him so much, whyd you bring him in here?
This beef between you and him is worse than me and dev lol


I literally didn’t. He just showed up. I genuinely can’t remember seeing him here before last week
Dec. 12, 2022 at 2:22 a.m.
#1123
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Quoting: LIRIK
Looking at both is the best. Analytics don't take every aspect of the game into consideration.


If you look at enough of them, it actually does. There are literally stats for everything. How much a player hits, how fast a player skates, how many successful passes they make. Stats count them all. Eye test can’t catch nearly as much info as stats can. Eye test can also be hindered by biased.
Dec. 12, 2022 at 2:23 a.m.
#1124
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Quoting: LloydminsterLarry
“Analytics are god”

“The eye test…”

I’m an old guy and I’ll even admit I under analytics are here to stay. However, they are now the lazy default for people on the internet. I understand we can’t watch every single game every night but I’m not going to look at some guy on twitter to tell me if player x on Winnipeg is any good or if player y on Nashville has advanced states equal to player z on Chicago. You’re better off reading about a team and their players by reading their local sport media than trusting national sports outlets or random people on twitter.

I don’t either. I’m trying harder to look for analytics myself. It is much more reliable than simply watching a player because you simply can’t pickup all the little details of the game just by watching through a game
Dec. 12, 2022 at 3:31 a.m.
#1125
What in tarnation
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Jesus. I had the energy to debate with Habs fans about Chiarot of his very inflated value, which was true, he got traded for way too much, and the other participant regretted it soon after.

No doubt same is going to happen with Anderson. Some fool is going to trade a haul for him, and regret it soon after. I'm tired of discussing the whole topic. Only reason why these players gather out such a massive debate is because they happen to play for the Montreal Canadiens.

My opinion on Anderson is this - Should Anderson ever return more than a 3rd round pick, similar to Chiarot, at least stats wise, were it basic or advanced, there's absolutely zero justification for it. Anderson might have some decent attributes that interest GMs, such as his size and speed, but as an overall player he comes up way too short when compared to his salary. I mean I could be the best cake mixer in the world, but that talent would be of little use if I can't f*cking bake the rest of the cake. This metaphor describes Anderson to me quite well.

He is probably the first 30-35 point player who earns a staggering $5,5M, and still considered a high value asset.

And yet, despite all that, should Anderson get traded, there's no doubt in my mind it will be for a haul involving a first round pick, a prospect, and probably a cap dump of some kind. Otherwise MTL won't even move him, and to me it seems like fans would remain happy if that was the case, because for some reason they like him.

To me, there's two things getting mixed up in this discussion by the most active debators of this whole issue
- what is he actually worth in return
- what will he actually get in return

These two things are COMPLETELY different.
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