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What am I Missing With Phillips

Created by: WranglerWranglin
Team: 2022-23 Calgary Flames
Initial Creation Date: Dec. 2, 2022
Published: Dec. 2, 2022
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I understand the clamoring for Phillips as he's coming off the AHL player of the month and leading the league in points but a call up right now isn't the right thing to do is it? After Salim Valji asked Sutter point-blank about it today he essentially got told that as it stands Phillips doesn't perform at an NHL level.

https://twitter.com/salimvalji/status/1598752486663553024?s=20&t=_czEQzqMpkuOcSlgxgosuQ

If that's the case then why would there be a call up? If he comes up and the Jack Adams winning coach that is on his 3rd decade in the league just happens to be right then what is the move with him? He sits in the press box or goes on waivers and the wannabe talking heads like WinColumn, Gould and Adler on Flames twitter have another collective meltdown.

Pelletier or Zary make more sense to slide into the left wing on the third line no? Waiver exempt, sheltered by Backlund and Coleman, better option than Ruzicka or Lucic.

Other AHL league leaders in points over the past few years and where they are now:

24yo - Matthew Phillips - 1.444 points per game - 25% shooting percentage

27yo - Andrew Poturalski - 1.423 - 14.2% - Career AHL
29yo - T.J. Tynan - 1.581 - 15.4% - Career AHL
26yo - Sam Anas - 1.111 - 12.6% - Career AHL
26yo - Reid Boucher - 1.264 - 13.7% - 9 min/night in Vancouver
23yo - Carter Verhaeghe - 1.079 - 16.7% - Middle 6 NHL
21yo - Jeremy Bracco - 1.053 - 17.1% - KHL

Verhaege is the outlier here, not the norm. Scoring in the AHL is great but let's not get tunnel vision on one thing. There are obviously holes in Phillips game or other teams would have grabbed him on waivers at the start of the year. 2021-22 he had 68 points but was only +14 on a team that had the least goals against and one of the best goal differentials in the entire league. It doesn't take a real deep look to find where the holes in his game are. The ask from Flames fans right now is to call up an undersized, below average defensive player with an unsustainable shooting percentage to fix all their problems.


Sorry if this post isn't appropriate here and should be elsewhere, just trying out a new forum as opposed to the horrid Flames Twitter cult.
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Dec. 5, 2022 at 6:01 p.m.
#26
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Quoting: KingofRnR
Coleman should be on Kadri’s line imo

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Phillips
Pelletier-Backlund-Toffoli
Coleman-Kadri-Ritchie/Lewis/New Acquisition
Dube-Ruzicka-Mangiapane

Either Role or Match the lines accordingly. Phillips should not have a problem playing against Top-6 Smaller guys like Cole Caufield or Kailer Yamamoto for example. Lots of Teams have small players he can match up against.

Make Kadri’s line the “Checking Line” of we need to label one as that, otherwise just go with more balanced lines: Playmaker-Centre-Finisher (applied to lines 1,2&4)

Obviously insert more Size & Grit = Lucic against Bigger Teams like Nashville or where his Enforcement is necessary but keep him away from the Fast Teams like EDM and NJD

Alternatively, I’d like to acquire guys like Ivan Barbashev and/or Luke Kunin. Bo Horvat would be the best possible “Star Player” acquisition imo and then move Kadri to the wing


Yeah.. That's just not it. That feels like lines you'd put together in a video game to build fake chemistry and stuff. So far from practical in real applications.

Toffoli is on pace for a career season, he's scoring at a .708 ppg clip, his career high is .707, he's shooting below his career average shooting% all while having the best Corsi and Fenwick seasons he's had. Doesn't really feel like the guy to move at this point, especially when that line is coming together fairly well under a new system.

Caufield would eat Phillips alive in the d zone, Yamamoto isn't playing in the top 6, for many of the reasons that Phillips wouldn't, Phillips really creates a matchup nightmare for the Flames especially on the road.

Coleman and Backlund shouldn't be separated at any time a this rate, they should be taking a defensively responsible winger that can fly and produce ie. Mangiapane, Dube, Ruzicka, Pelletier, Schwindt.
Dec. 5, 2022 at 6:14 p.m.
#27
TrevorA
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Edited Dec. 5, 2022 at 6:45 p.m.
Quoting: WranglerWranglin
Yeah.. That's just not it. That feels like lines you'd put together in a video game to build fake chemistry and stuff. So far from practical in real applications.

Toffoli is on pace for a career season, he's scoring at a .708 ppg clip, his career high is .707, he's shooting below his career average shooting% all while having the best Corsi and Fenwick seasons he's had. Doesn't really feel like the guy to move at this point, especially when that line is coming together fairly well under a new system.

Caufield would eat Phillips alive in the d zone, Yamamoto isn't playing in the top 6, for many of the reasons that Phillips wouldn't, Phillips really creates a matchup nightmare for the Flames especially on the road.

Coleman and Backlund shouldn't be separated at any time a this rate, they should be taking a defensively responsible winger that can fly and produce ie. Mangiapane, Dube, Ruzicka, Pelletier, Schwindt.

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli
Dube-Kadri-Mangiapane

These have been ineffective lines IMO, so switch it up till you find better chemistry. Toffoli’s producing about the same as last year. We need a 0.80-1.00PPG+ guy at 1RW. That could still be Mangiapane, possibly Matthew Phillips, but right now it’s Ruzicka

I like Backlund with Coleman, but when you need Backlund to shelter a Rookie Playmaker, like Pelletier you’re best to have a RW finisher, like Phillips or Ruzicka who he already has chemistry with otherwise Toffoli or Mangiapane

Again, Ruzicka’s the one who deserves to be in the Top-6, but you suggested playing Phillips with Lindholm, so I went that way. If he doesn’t work out, send him down with Mang & Dube and out Ruzicka at 1RW. Toffoli’s more of a Middle-6 RW/PP Specialist AFAIC. Still an effective Sniper but not fast enough on the rush and has trouble finding open space 5on5 on line 1, he’s most dangerous off the faceoffs on set plays. He’s more suited to Backlunds speed

I like Mang with Dube but they’ve been terrible with Kadri with bad line changes and horrific giveaways in their own zone

If you’re content with how they’re playing that’s fine, but I want to continue switching it up until we become more dominant. Lucic & Rooney are weak, Lewis & Ritchie are okay. Trades likely won’t happen till the new year so looking internally, Phillips & Pelletier are the most deserving.

Zary’s only 20 and has been weak defensively himself at a -6. I think Zohorna or Ben Jones are more deserving of a call up than Zary and both would be improvements over Lucic & Rooney as well
Dec. 5, 2022 at 6:58 p.m.
#28
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Quoting: KingofRnR
Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli
Dube-Kadri-Mangiapane

These have been ineffective lines IMO, so switch it up till you find better chemistry. Toffoli’s producing about the same as last year. We need a 0.80-1.00PPG+ guy at 1RW. That could still be Mangiapane, possibly Matthew Phillips, but right now it’s Ruzicka

I like Backlund with Coleman, but when you need Backlund to shelter a Rookie Playmaker, like Pelletier you’re best to have a RW finisher, like Phillips or Ruzicka who he already has chemistry with otherwise Toffoli or Mangiapane

Again, Ruzicka’s the one who deserves to be in the Top-6, but you suggested playing Phillips with Lindholm, so I went that way. If he doesn’t work out, send him down with Mang & Dube and out Ruzicka at 1RW. Toffoli’s more of a Middle-6 RW/PP Specialist AFAIC. Still an effective Sniper but not fast enough on the rush and has trouble finding open space 5on5 on line 1, he’s most dangerous off the faceoffs on set plays. He’s more suited to Backlunds speed

I like Mang with Dube but they’ve been terrible with Kadri with bad line changes and horrific giveaways in their own zone

If you’re content with how they’re playing that’s fine, but I want to continue switching it up until we become more dominant. Lucic & Rooney are weak, Lewis & Ritchie are okay. Trades likely won’t happen till the new year so looking internally, Phillips & Pelletier are the most deserving.

Zary’s only 20 and has been weak defensively himself at a -6. I think Zohorna or Ben Jones are more deserving of a call up than Zary and both would be improvements over Lucic & Rooney as well


The 2nd line was excellent at the start of the season, Kadri has fallen off a bit but the other two are getting better. The top line went through a serious adjustment period and looks much better.

Toffoli is on pace for a career year shooting at the lowest percentage of his career while having borderline elite possession numbers. Ruzicka is shooting at 25%, if you think that’s sustainable then you need to readjust your scope a touch.

Your reasoning on Backlund is non existent. It’s again the line of thinking someone who plays NHL video games too much.

I’m not sure where I suggested Phillips play with Lindholm… I’ve said nothing other than he should stay in the minors. Toffoli is excellent at being a trailer and surprisingly good at finding soft spots on the ice off the cycle, Ruzicka isn’t. This is a weird conversation, I kind of feel like you watch highlight packages and blindly make your opinions. Again, as I said earlier regarding Lucic, casual hockey fans or people who haven’t played would miss a lot of the things that you’re missing.
Dec. 5, 2022 at 7:31 p.m.
#29
TrevorA
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Quoting: WranglerWranglin
The 2nd line was excellent at the start of the season, Kadri has fallen off a bit but the other two are getting better. The top line went through a serious adjustment period and looks much better.

Toffoli is on pace for a career year shooting at the lowest percentage of his career while having borderline elite possession numbers. Ruzicka is shooting at 25%, if you think that’s sustainable then you need to readjust your scope a touch.

Your reasoning on Backlund is non existent. It’s again the line of thinking someone who plays NHL video games too much.

I’m not sure where I suggested Phillips play with Lindholm… I’ve said nothing other than he should stay in the minors. Toffoli is excellent at being a trailer and surprisingly good at finding soft spots on the ice off the cycle, Ruzicka isn’t. This is a weird conversation, I kind of feel like you watch highlight packages and blindly make your opinions. Again, as I said earlier regarding Lucic, casual hockey fans or people who haven’t played would miss a lot of the things that you’re missing.

Go ahead and put yourself up on your soap box and pretend like you’re the expert if you like, but I’ve had enough of you trying to downplay my thoughts, opinion and perspective and making stupid assumptions

If Phillips sucks so much why has he lead the Team in Scoring and torn it up in the AHL each of the past 3 seasons. Same goes for Ruzicka who obviously has better size, strength and offensive talent & skill 5on5 and better chemistry with Lindholm than Toffoli or Huberdeau have shown this season. Keep driving that square peg in to the round hole

You go with and play the guys who are effective and deserving. If you think Sutter’s Top 2 lines have been good at Even Strength it’s you who needs to get back in touch with reality. Yup, Kadri Mang & Dube sure were great letting Monahan walk in on Markstrom 12 seconds in to the game against MTL

We have some good players on paper, but they’re certainly not playing well enough together and Lucic is effectively a pylon in his own zone. There’s far more deserving guys on the Wranglers than Lucic & Rooney

Anyways, have fun stroking your own ego and dismissing others if that’s what really floats your boat, but I’m done with it
Dec. 5, 2022 at 7:53 p.m.
#30
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Quoting: KingofRnR
Go ahead and put yourself up on your soap box and pretend like you’re the expert if you like, but I’ve had enough of you trying to downplay my thoughts, opinion and perspective and making stupid assumptions

If Phillips sucks so much why has he lead the Team in Scoring and torn it up in the AHL each of the past 3 seasons. Same goes for Ruzicka who obviously has better size, strength and offensive talent & skill 5on5 and better chemistry with Lindholm than Toffoli or Huberdeau have shown this season. Keep driving that square peg in to the round hole

You go with and play the guys who are effective and deserving. If you think Sutter’s Top 2 lines have been good at Even Strength it’s you who needs to get back in touch with reality. Yup, Kadri Mang & Dube sure were great letting Monahan walk in on Markstrom 12 seconds in to the game against MTL

We have some good players on paper, but they’re certainly not playing well enough together and Lucic is effectively a pylon in his own zone. There’s far more deserving guys on the Wranglers than Lucic & Rooney

Anyways, have fun stroking your own ego and dismissing others if that’s what really floats your boat, but I’m done with it


I think you see the best in Flames players but have a fairly narrow scope of view when it comes to analyzing their faults. Ruzicka has been very good but was extremely ineffective without the puck on the top line, you can’t get blinded by production when he just ran into most of his goals. Phillips even projects as a middling NHL player if he had all his tools working at their best according to the article earlier in this thread. Objective people’s views on Phillips are no where near yours

I don’t think you need to get your back up, there was pretty healthy conversation throughout this whole thread. I think there are just a few things you miss when you’re analyzing play and how guys fill roles. Are you fairly new to hockey? Or a younger fan? This website seems like a great place ti learn a bit. I use MoneyPuck and Hockey Reference quite a bit. Dobber Compare tool is good too!
Dec. 5, 2022 at 8:02 p.m.
#31
TrevorA
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Edited Dec. 6, 2022 at 5:05 p.m.
Quoting: WranglerWranglin
I think you see the best in Flames players but have a fairly narrow scope of view when it comes to analyzing their faults. Ruzicka has been very good but was extremely ineffective without the puck on the top line, you can’t get blinded by production when he just ran into most of his goals. Phillips even projects as a middling NHL player if he had all his tools working at their best according to the article earlier in this thread. Objective people’s views on Phillips are no where near yours

I don’t think you need to get your back up, there was pretty healthy conversation throughout this whole thread. I think there are just a few things you miss when you’re analyzing play and how guys fill roles. Are you fairly new to hockey? Or a younger fan? This website seems like a great place ti learn a bit. I use MoneyPuck and Hockey Reference quite a bit. Dobber Compare tool is good too!

I find you to be quite rude and condescending, which is obviously a trend on this site or Internet forums as a whole, but eventually I get tired of it and will call ppl out on it

I understand roles just fine, but you’re defending a player in Lucic who is not excelling at his role each & every night and down playing a guy in Ruzicka who was successful last season as predominantly a 4C with 2 offensively weak wingers and another guy in Phillips who hasn’t even been given a chance. Ruzicka, Phillips & Pelletier have been effective this year, so that’s who you should play when other guys are not

You can have all the projections and theory you want, but what will they actually do is what I care about and the only way to know is to play them. Like most small guys or ppl of certain disadvantages, Phillips has obviously learned to play professional hockey given his lack of size.

Rooney has brought nothing. If he could at least win faceoffs regularly I would be okay with him, but he’s not. Lucic & Lewis should be rested in favour of younger guys so they stay sharp & healthy for the playoffs and I’d say the same of Tanev too who isn’t 100% healthy and we need him to be. Rooney should be Traded or Waived and we have other guys who can play Lucic’s role of being an intimidator and enforcer.
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Dec. 5, 2022 at 8:37 p.m.
#32
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Quoting: KingofRnR
I find you to be quite rude and condescending, which is obviously a trend on this site or Internet forums as a whole, but eventually I get tired of it and will call ppl out on it

I understand roles just fine, but you’re defending a player in Lucic who is not excelling at his role each & every night and down playing a guy in Ruzicka who was successful last season as predominantly a 4C with 2 offensively weak wingers and another guy in Phillips who hasn’t even been given a chance. Ruzicka, Phillips & Pelletier have been effective this year, so that’s who you should play when other guys are not

You can have all the projections and theory you want, but what will they actually do is what I care about and the only way to know is to play them. Like most small guys or ppl of certain disadvantages, Phillips has obviously learned to play professional hockey given his lack of size.

Rooney has brought nothing. If he could at least win faceoffs regularly I would be okay with him, but he’s not. Lucic & Lewis should be rested in favour of younger guys so they stay sharp & healthy for the playoffs and I’d say the same if Tanev too who isn’t 100% healthy and we need him to be. Rooney should be Traded or Waived and we have other guys who can play Lucic’s role of being an intimidator and enforcer.


You do have to find it a little interesting that you keep running into rude condescending people here, I haven’t really had a bad interaction yet but there have been disagreements. Do you just not like when people disagree with you? It feels like you don’t have a ton of substance to your arguments other than feelings about players as opposed to metrics, play style, stats and research. Is that why you find people to be rude? I tried to provide a couple resources for you if you’re new to the game.

I’ve said in this thread multiple times that the 4th line needs a shake up. In terms of roster sizes, waivers etc etc there are very few viable options to provide the shake up needed.

Rooney’s forecheck was really good for a long stretch, he would cause turnovers low in the O Zone and no one would be there for puck support. He would be a good Hathaway kind of comparison from when the Flames had an excellent 4th line, and if that’s the case, Ritchie and Pelletier would be good wingers for a 4th line due ti speed and strong enough 200 foot games. Again, not Phillips.
Dec. 5, 2022 at 9:22 p.m.
#33
TrevorA
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Edited Dec. 5, 2022 at 9:59 p.m.
Quoting: WranglerWranglin
You do have to find it a little interesting that you keep running into rude condescending people here, I haven’t really had a bad interaction yet but there have been disagreements. Do you just not like when people disagree with you? It feels like you don’t have a ton of substance to your arguments other than feelings about players as opposed to metrics, play style, stats and research. Is that why you find people to be rude? I tried to provide a couple resources for you if you’re new to the game.

I’ve said in this thread multiple times that the 4th line needs a shake up. In terms of roster sizes, waivers etc etc there are very few viable options to provide the shake up needed.

Rooney’s forecheck was really good for a long stretch, he would cause turnovers low in the O Zone and no one would be there for puck support. He would be a good Hathaway kind of comparison from when the Flames had an excellent 4th line, and if that’s the case, Ritchie and Pelletier would be good wingers for a 4th line due ti speed and strong enough 200 foot games. Again, not Phillips.

I have absolutely no problem with people disagreeing with me. What I do have a problem with is people calling me (or other ppl) & their ideas stupid or insinuating that they don’t know what they’re talking about or must be new to hockey. I’m well aware of the online hockey resources. Quit being so condescending, self-righteous and ignorant

The Team needs a lot more than just a 4th line shakeup. If you’re a fan of Rooney and want to see him & Lucic in the lineup and don’t think we have internal options we should be trying before we look to facilitate a trade, there’s not much point in continuing this conversation

Go look at those sites and review the statistics yourself and maybe you’ll see for yourself Phillips & Pelletier are the best 2 Wrangler contributors this season and that Lucic & Rooney should be the ones in the press box, not Ritchie

Phillips should be on a line with a Playmaker = Huberdeau or Pelletier and a Defensive Centre = Lindholm or Backlund, but he’d likely also do well with other guys his age and who have the same energy, like Mangiapane & Dube, especially as a 4th “High Energy Scoring” Line deployed against other Teams weaker lines. They’d maintain possession, wear down and tire the opposition and create better scoring chances than Sutter’s useless 4th Line of Lucic & Rooney
Dec. 5, 2022 at 11:52 p.m.
#34
TrevorA
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Edited Dec. 6, 2022 at 12:15 a.m.
Quoting: WranglerWranglin
You do have to find it a little interesting that you keep running into rude condescending people here, I haven’t really had a bad interaction yet but there have been disagreements. Do you just not like when people disagree with you? It feels like you don’t have a ton of substance to your arguments other than feelings about players as opposed to metrics, play style, stats and research. Is that why you find people to be rude? I tried to provide a couple resources for you if you’re new to the game.

I’ve said in this thread multiple times that the 4th line needs a shake up. In terms of roster sizes, waivers etc etc there are very few viable options to provide the shake up needed.

Rooney’s forecheck was really good for a long stretch, he would cause turnovers low in the O Zone and no one would be there for puck support. He would be a good Hathaway kind of comparison from when the Flames had an excellent 4th line, and if that’s the case, Ritchie and Pelletier would be good wingers for a 4th line due ti speed and strong enough 200 foot games. Again, not Phillips.

So how do you assess the game against ARI tonight!?

Goaltending was perfect, he won us the game. 0.900Sv% statistically isn’t great but he really had no chance on the 2 goals allowed and only got 20 shots against, so not much action but he made the saves he needed too.

Power Play was effective which was nice to see. I’m not a huge fan of Kadri on the #1 PP but he did great.

Otherwise other than the Dube goal, ARI was more effective 5on5. Lucic threw 1 measly hit. Rooney did okay with a few hits and 50% on the face off dot but his line as a whole only put 1 shot on net by Lewis. That’s weak and unacceptable, especially against a Team like ARI

All the lines need work and it’s time for call ups AFAIC

I’ll Take the Win and I’m Happy with the Points though
Dec. 6, 2022 at 11:57 a.m.
#35
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Quoting: KingofRnR
So how do you assess the game against ARI tonight!?

Goaltending was perfect, he won us the game. 0.900Sv% statistically isn’t great but he really had no chance on the 2 goals allowed and only got 20 shots against, so not much action but he made the saves he needed too.

Power Play was effective which was nice to see. I’m not a huge fan of Kadri on the #1 PP but he did great.

Otherwise other than the Dube goal, ARI was more effective 5on5. Lucic threw 1 measly hit. Rooney did okay with a few hits and 50% on the face off dot but his line as a whole only put 1 shot on net by Lewis. That’s weak and unacceptable, especially against a Team like ARI

All the lines need work and it’s time for call ups AFAIC

I’ll Take the Win and I’m Happy with the Points though


Hosted clients at the game last night, didn't have a full eye on anything but am re-watching this morning.

Right off the top, goaltending wasn't perfect. It was great, the first goal went through a hole that shouldn't be open on a blind shot from the point that was likely missing the net if he just stays square and blocks the puck, inside of the blocker deflected towards the net is not how pucks should go it. Second shot is a stoppable puck no doubt about it but a goal scorers goal, tip your cap to the shooter, elite goalies make that save. Vladar also mishandled the puck multiple times leading to sustained zone time or grade A chances for the Coyotes. Timely saves won that game but it shouldn't have been that close.

Kadri is close to the best zone entry guy on that powerplay unit, he seems to be the only one that chips and actually chases when teams stack the line, his ability to shoot the puck opposite of Toffoli is why the bumper play works from both sides, when it clicks it will really take off. Funny enough Lindholm has been lacking on PP1 the most.

Lucic had way more than 1 hit and I can remember two in a shift, hits are tracked objectively by in house people every game and the league just reports them, they can be missed more often than not. While sitting at the Saddledome you can tell there's more than 1 by the "Loooooch" chants every time he throws one. Rooney needs better line mates, IF Lucic is going to play then he needs to play with Rooney/Ruzicka and Ritchie, IF Lewis is going to play it needs to be with Rooney on the wing and Ruzicka. Again, as said multiple times yesterday the 4th line needs an overhaul and with the complications that roster sizes, cap and waivers brings into things it will have to be between Ruzicka/Lucic/Lewis/Rooney. I actually think Rooney and Ritchie would work well together but that's where I would plug in a Zohorna/Pelletier/Schwindt/Zary/Jones, that would be as close to the 4th line the Flames had with Mangiapane and Hathaway years ago.

It's great that you think the Flames need call ups but they have room for 1 body, they can send down the following:
Lewis - Sutter golden boy, won't happen and like Richardson last year, likely claimed by someone
Ritchie - Producing at 750K salary, teams would jump at that
Rooney - Good luck getting another American UFA if you sign one for 2 years just to bury in the minors
Ruzicka - Claimed
Kylington to LTIR - Ruins the Flames deadline cap space

So with that knowledge and knowing that whoever comes up needs to either put up points and play a 200 ft game or the will be sent down, we are now looking at waiver exempt call ups:
Pelletier - Great fit with Backlund and Coleman, first on my list of call ups.
Zary - Great fit with Backlund and Coleman, would rather leave his to develop as a C for more defensive responsibility
Schwindt - RW/C, would rather leave him there to develop as a right shot option or C in the future
Klapka - 4th line, no production, crash and bang
Waiver Eligible:
Zohrona - Probably fine losing him to waivers
Phillips - Lacking a 200 ft game, would have to cater lines around him to cover his D Zone inabilities. Back on waivers if he doesn't produce.
Dec. 6, 2022 at 1:49 p.m.
#36
TrevorA
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Quoting: WranglerWranglin
Hosted clients at the game last night, didn't have a full eye on anything but am re-watching this morning.

Right off the top, goaltending wasn't perfect. It was great, the first goal went through a hole that shouldn't be open on a blind shot from the point that was likely missing the net if he just stays square and blocks the puck, inside of the blocker deflected towards the net is not how pucks should go it. Second shot is a stoppable puck no doubt about it but a goal scorers goal, tip your cap to the shooter, elite goalies make that save. Vladar also mishandled the puck multiple times leading to sustained zone time or grade A chances for the Coyotes. Timely saves won that game but it shouldn't have been that close.

Kadri is close to the best zone entry guy on that powerplay unit, he seems to be the only one that chips and actually chases when teams stack the line, his ability to shoot the puck opposite of Toffoli is why the bumper play works from both sides, when it clicks it will really take off. Funny enough Lindholm has been lacking on PP1 the most.

Lucic had way more than 1 hit and I can remember two in a shift, hits are tracked objectively by in house people every game and the league just reports them, they can be missed more often than not. While sitting at the Saddledome you can tell there's more than 1 by the "Loooooch" chants every time he throws one. Rooney needs better line mates, IF Lucic is going to play then he needs to play with Rooney/Ruzicka and Ritchie, IF Lewis is going to play it needs to be with Rooney on the wing and Ruzicka. Again, as said multiple times yesterday the 4th line needs an overhaul and with the complications that roster sizes, cap and waivers brings into things it will have to be between Ruzicka/Lucic/Lewis/Rooney. I actually think Rooney and Ritchie would work well together but that's where I would plug in a Zohorna/Pelletier/Schwindt/Zary/Jones, that would be as close to the 4th line the Flames had with Mangiapane and Hathaway years ago.

It's great that you think the Flames need call ups but they have room for 1 body, they can send down the following:
Lewis - Sutter golden boy, won't happen and like Richardson last year, likely claimed by someone
Ritchie - Producing at 750K salary, teams would jump at that
Rooney - Good luck getting another American UFA if you sign one for 2 years just to bury in the minors
Ruzicka - Claimed
Kylington to LTIR - Ruins the Flames deadline cap space

So with that knowledge and knowing that whoever comes up needs to either put up points and play a 200 ft game or the will be sent down, we are now looking at waiver exempt call ups:
Pelletier - Great fit with Backlund and Coleman, first on my list of call ups.
Zary - Great fit with Backlund and Coleman, would rather leave his to develop as a C for more defensive responsibility
Schwindt - RW/C, would rather leave him there to develop as a right shot option or C in the future
Klapka - 4th line, no production, crash and bang
Waiver Eligible:
Zohrona - Probably fine losing him to waivers
Phillips - Lacking a 200 ft game, would have to cater lines around him to cover his D Zone inabilities. Back on waivers if he doesn't produce.


I don't think Vladar had much of a chance on either ARI Goal, the 1st was just bad puck luck, but he was heavily screen and I swear that puck was deflected, the 2nd was a pure snipe of a goal by Chychrun. You're right, not perfect, but as the goaltending was better than should really be expected.

Kadri would be just as useful on PP #2 then as they need to enter the zone as well. Good assessment on the double bumper play. I find Kadri shoots too often on the PP missing the net and the puck leaves the zone. I'd like him to have some front net presence with guys like Hanifin or Weegar + Stone Blasting or Shooting on Net from the Point and Kadri and the 2 Wingers cleaning up the rebounds or getting the puck back to the point to get it on net again. PP #1 without Kadri might better at the cycle and keeping the puck in the O-Zone

Both Lucic & Lewis were essentially invisible out there and Rooney didn't do much, but he didn't do anything bad either. I'd much rather have Rooney at LW over Lucic for awhile, Lucic looks slow & tired again, he needs to be rested often and kept fresh

That's a good assessment and I agree with what would happen by trying to move/waive Lewis, Ritchie, Rooney, Ruzicka & Kylington, but I don't believe the waivers eligible call ups would have to clear waivers again unless they stay with the club 30+ days or 10+ games and Rooney could be sent down on a "Conditioning Stint":

A player does not need to pass through waivers if the player has not been on the NHL active roster for a cumulative 30 days since last clearing waivers, OR has not played in 10 or more NHL games. CBA Reference 13.2(b) (Despite the CBA reference saying 30 days AND 10 games, the rule is actually 30 days OR 10 games)
A player whom consented to a Conditioning Loan can be Loaned to a minor league club for a maximum of 14 days without passing through waivers. CBA Reference 13.8
Dec. 6, 2022 at 3:58 p.m.
#37
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Quoting: KingofRnR
I don't think Vladar had much of a chance on either ARI Goal, the 1st was just bad puck luck, but he was heavily screen and I swear that puck was deflected, the 2nd was a pure snipe of a goal by Chychrun. You're right, not perfect, but as the goaltending was better than should really be expected.

Kadri would be just as useful on PP #2 then as they need to enter the zone as well. Good assessment on the double bumper play. I find Kadri shoots too often on the PP missing the net and the puck leaves the zone. I'd like him to have some front net presence with guys like Hanifin or Weegar + Stone Blasting or Shooting on Net from the Point and Kadri and the 2 Wingers cleaning up the rebounds or getting the puck back to the point to get it on net again. PP #1 without Kadri might better at the cycle and keeping the puck in the O-Zone

Both Lucic & Lewis were essentially invisible out there and Rooney didn't do much, but he didn't do anything bad either. I'd much rather have Rooney at LW over Lucic for awhile, Lucic looks slow & tired again, he needs to be rested often and kept fresh

That's a good assessment and I agree with what would happen by trying to move/waive Lewis, Ritchie, Rooney, Ruzicka & Kylington, but I don't believe the waivers eligible call ups would have to clear waivers again unless they stay with the club 30+ days or 10+ games and Rooney could be sent down on a "Conditioning Stint":

A player does not need to pass through waivers if the player has not been on the NHL active roster for a cumulative 30 days since last clearing waivers, OR has not played in 10 or more NHL games. CBA Reference 13.2(b) (Despite the CBA reference saying 30 days AND 10 games, the rule is actually 30 days OR 10 games)
A player whom consented to a Conditioning Loan can be Loaned to a minor league club for a maximum of 14 days without passing through waivers. CBA Reference 13.8


It was great, as said, elite goalies stop that. Vladar is not an elite goalie but played very well.

See this is where I find so many holes in what you have to say, sure Kadri would be great at zone entry on PP2 as well, but when you take away their best zone entry guy you are left with a powerplay unit that can't get puck possession and is chasing for a minute thirty. Just like they did when Kadri was slumping. Stone on PP2 has lost it's lustre, he's not mobile enough to give himself space and teams rotate a high diamond to him when he's out there, his shot through percentage is 57% on the powerplay, he's had 31 shots blocked this year and so much of that is that he doesn't have the feet to move once he has the puck. He also decimated Coleman with a shot from about 5 feet away last night, he buries his head, has zero awareness or presence of mind to find a lane, it's one of the many reasons he's a good 7th D man but he's playing out of his league this season. Pucks aren't getting through to allow the forwards to clean up rebounds, the best the second powerplay unit looked was with Hanifin and Kylington last year, Weegar isn't as mobile and doesn't really play the powerplay so it's time to find a different way to make Hanifin and someone more effective, that's on the coaching staff and a system change for the second unit really.

As said before if Lewis is on the 4th line, Lucic shouldn't be, if Lucic is on the 4th line Lewis shouldn't be. Rooney looked very good in the pre season on a line with Backlund and Coleman, he fits really well in a puck pressure line with defensive responsibilities and checking in layers with D side support. Him running down behind the net making a good play on the forecheck and having no one around to continue the pressure isn't going to work, fixes to that are Ritchie, Pelletier, Zohorna, Jones. Lewis is tough to take out of the line up which leaves Lucic.

If Phillips comes up and doesn't produce in 9 games Flames twitter will still be in shambles about not getting a fair shake, coming into the NHL from the AHL with a 27.8(!!!)% shooting percentage is not really a call to arms, it's a guy who can go on a heater, he comes up goes on a heater then goes cold, he provides quite literally nothing else other than point production in streaks, if he's not scoring at a pretty hot clip in the NHL he's a liability. In his 9 games this season where he does not have a goal he's a collective -5, he doesn't kill penalties, he's not taking powerplay minutes away from Mangiapane, Dube, Ruzicka or Backlund, that leaves him with maybe 12 - 15 even strength minutes a night, of those 12 - 15 minutes you can almost bet he see's maybe 1 or 2 D Zone starts a game, strictly because of icing and not being able to change, which again would see his minutes decreased. What line are you taking valuable OZone starts away from for Phillips? Now we are looking at an undersized, defensively ineffective winger that can't contribute to either side of special teams with an unsustainable shooting percentage. This last bolded sentence should be all there is to the Phillips call up.

Call up Zohorna or Pelletier, Zohorna if you want to have Ruzicka stay at 3LW or Pelletier if you're moving Ruzicka to 4C which I think is the better of the two options. Outside of that it's a pretty tough spot to plug an AHL'er into a line up without injury.
Dec. 6, 2022 at 4:44 p.m.
#38
Ovchinnikov 137
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Quoting: KingofRnR
I find you to be quite rude and condescending, which is obviously a trend on this site or Internet forums as a whole, but eventually I get tired of it and will call ppl out on it

I understand roles just fine, but you’re defending a player in Lucic who is not excelling at his role each & every night and down playing a guy in Ruzicka who was successful last season as predominantly a 4C with 2 offensively weak wingers and another guy in Phillips who hasn’t even been given a chance. Ruzicka, Phillips & Pelletier have been effective this year, so that’s who you should play when other guys are not

You can have all the projections and theory you want, but what will they actually do is what I care about and the only way to know is to play them. Like most small guys or ppl of certain disadvantages, Phillips has obviously learned to play professional hockey given his lack of size.

Rooney has brought nothing. If he could at least win faceoffs regularly I would be okay with him, but he’s not. Lucic & Lewis should be rested in favour of younger guys so they stay sharp & healthy for the playoffs and I’d say the same if Tanev too who isn’t 100% healthy and we need him to be. Rooney should be Traded or Waived and we have other guys who can play Lucic’s role of being an intimidator and enforcer.





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Dec. 6, 2022 at 4:50 p.m.
#39
TrevorA
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Edited Dec. 6, 2022 at 5:02 p.m.
Quoting: WranglerWranglin
It was great, as said, elite goalies stop that. Vladar is not an elite goalie but played very well.

See this is where I find so many holes in what you have to say, sure Kadri would be great at zone entry on PP2 as well, but when you take away their best zone entry guy you are left with a powerplay unit that can't get puck possession and is chasing for a minute thirty. Just like they did when Kadri was slumping. Stone on PP2 has lost it's lustre, he's not mobile enough to give himself space and teams rotate a high diamond to him when he's out there, his shot through percentage is 57% on the powerplay, he's had 31 shots blocked this year and so much of that is that he doesn't have the feet to move once he has the puck. He also decimated Coleman with a shot from about 5 feet away last night, he buries his head, has zero awareness or presence of mind to find a lane, it's one of the many reasons he's a good 7th D man but he's playing out of his league this season. Pucks aren't getting through to allow the forwards to clean up rebounds, the best the second powerplay unit looked was with Hanifin and Kylington last year, Weegar isn't as mobile and doesn't really play the powerplay so it's time to find a different way to make Hanifin and someone more effective, that's on the coaching staff and a system change for the second unit really.

As said before if Lewis is on the 4th line, Lucic shouldn't be, if Lucic is on the 4th line Lewis shouldn't be. Rooney looked very good in the pre season on a line with Backlund and Coleman, he fits really well in a puck pressure line with defensive responsibilities and checking in layers with D side support. Him running down behind the net making a good play on the forecheck and having no one around to continue the pressure isn't going to work, fixes to that are Ritchie, Pelletier, Zohorna, Jones. Lewis is tough to take out of the line up which leaves Lucic.

If Phillips comes up and doesn't produce in 9 games Flames twitter will still be in shambles about not getting a fair shake, coming into the NHL from the AHL with a 27.8(!!!)% shooting percentage is not really a call to arms, it's a guy who can go on a heater, he comes up goes on a heater then goes cold, he provides quite literally nothing else other than point production in streaks, if he's not scoring at a pretty hot clip in the NHL he's a liability. In his 9 games this season where he does not have a goal he's a collective -5, he doesn't kill penalties, he's not taking powerplay minutes away from Mangiapane, Dube, Ruzicka or Backlund, that leaves him with maybe 12 - 15 even strength minutes a night, of those 12 - 15 minutes you can almost bet he see's maybe 1 or 2 D Zone starts a game, strictly because of icing and not being able to change, which again would see his minutes decreased. What line are you taking valuable OZone starts away from for Phillips? Now we are looking at an undersized, defensively ineffective winger that can't contribute to either side of special teams with an unsustainable shooting percentage. This last bolded sentence should be all there is to the Phillips call up.

Call up Zohorna or Pelletier, Zohorna if you want to have Ruzicka stay at 3LW or Pelletier if you're moving Ruzicka to 4C which I think is the better of the two options. Outside of that it's a pretty tough spot to plug an AHL'er into a line up without injury.

You don’t think Lindholm or Huberdeau would be just as effective at Zone entries on the PP!? Rucizka’s been using his size well to retrieve and protect the puck. He has a great and super accurate shot and a fantastic back hand pass.

Stone hit an ARI player last night, not Coleman. Stone has the best shot from the point of all Flames D-Men and it’s effective. It either goes in, creates a juicy rebound & dangerous scoring opportunity, takes a defender or their stick out of the play and finally but rarely it gets saved and we get an offensive zone FaceOff and opportunity for a set play. Stone is under utilized offensively and wasn’t passed too enough when he was in the o-zone only getting 1 wrist shot off without any screen in place and the one rushed shot that hit the ARI player

I’m indifferent whether it’s Hanifin or Weegar that’s partnered with Stone, but Stone does need a fast D-Partner for protection against SHG’s. Weegar would be another Right Shot on the PP and hasn’t had much PP time whereas Hanifin has more experience and a decent shot and pass himself.

I didn’t like Kylington on the PP at all last season. He & Zadorov tend to shoot high missing the net only for the puck to rim around the glass and leave the zone often creating short handed opportunities

I want Lucic, Lewis & Rooney out completely from time to time. Either for younger guys like Zohorna, Jones or Schwindt or for Pelletier & Phillips:

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Ruzicka
Coleman-Kadri-Toffoli
Mangiapane-Backlund-Phillips
Pelletier-Dube-Ritchie

I would for sure try Pelletier & Phillips together on PP#2 over Dube & Mangiapane, who until recently were struggling terribly offensively. They could use some competition for PP Ice Time. Backlund shouldn’t even be on the PP anymore

Listen if it doesn’t work after a couple/few games than fine, it should quiet the Flames Twitter and put the Phillips debate to rest, but there’s windows when these call ups are more ideal, like when the Flames are playing at home, when the Wranglers are on a break or playing a weaker team and when the Flames are playing weaker teams at home, like MTL, WAS & ARI.

I understand where you’re coming from, but it’s too traditional imo. There’s nothing wrong with spreading speed, skill & youth throughout the entire lineup and you don’t put your best producing forward at 4C, Ruzicka should be in the Top-6, ideally as a RW

Let me ask you this. What if you’re wrong and Phillips comes in and contributes and the Flames scoring goes up!? I had guys like you saying Ruzicka’s projected to be a middle-6 player at best when I was pitching him for the Top-6. They finally did it do to Huberdeau’s being out and wow, look what we’ve discovered. He’s definitely usable and effective in a Top-6 role when called upon. He needs more work, but Ruzicka would be a great power forward if he’s not going to be a Centre for the Flames. And just maybe Phillips becomes a Right Shot Johnny Gaudreau

You never know until you try it. We’ve tried Rooney & Lucic and they both suck the majority of the time. At least Lewis kills penalties and Ritchie knows to go to the front of the net
Dec. 6, 2022 at 4:53 p.m.
#40
TrevorA
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Quoting: MatthewsFan



Love it. Where was Rooney going!??? Man that line sucks. Ritchie knows where to go at least
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Dec. 6, 2022 at 6:17 p.m.
#41
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Quoting: KingofRnR
You don’t think Lindholm or Huberdeau would be just as effective at Zone entries on the PP!? Rucizka’s been using his size well to retrieve and protect the puck. He has a great and super accurate shot and a fantastic back hand pass.

Stone hit an ARI player last night, not Coleman. Stone has the best shot from the point of all Flames D-Men and it’s effective. It either goes in, creates a juicy rebound & dangerous scoring opportunity, takes a defender or their stick out of the play and finally but rarely it gets saved and we get an offensive zone FaceOff and opportunity for a set play. Stone is under utilized offensively and wasn’t passed too enough when he was in the o-zone only getting 1 wrist shot off without any screen in place and the one rushed shot that hit the ARI player

I’m indifferent whether it’s Hanifin or Weegar that’s partnered with Stone, but Stone does need a fast D-Partner for protection against SHG’s. Weegar would be another Right Shot on the PP and hasn’t had much PP time whereas Hanifin has more experience and a decent shot and pass himself.

I didn’t like Kylington on the PP at all last season. He & Zadorov tend to shoot high missing the net only for the puck to rim around the glass and leave the zone often creating short handed opportunities

I want Lucic, Lewis & Rooney out completely from time to time. Either for younger guys like Zohorna, Jones or Schwindt or for Pelletier & Phillips:

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Ruzicka
Coleman-Kadri-Toffoli
Mangiapane-Backlund-Phillips
Pelletier-Dube-Ritchie

I would for sure try Pelletier & Phillips together on PP#2 over Dube & Mangiapane, who until recently were struggling terribly offensively. They could use some competition for PP Ice Time. Backlund shouldn’t even be on the PP anymore

Listen if it doesn’t work after a couple/few games than fine, it should quiet the Flames Twitter and put the Phillips debate to rest, but there’s windows when these call ups are more ideal, like when the Flames are playing at home, when the Wranglers are on a break or playing a weaker team and when the Flames are playing weaker teams at home, like MTL, WAS & ARI.

I understand where you’re coming from, but it’s too traditional imo. There’s nothing wrong with spreading speed, skill & youth throughout the entire lineup and you don’t put your best producing forward at 4C, Ruzicka should be in the Top-6, ideally as a RW

Let me ask you this. What if you’re wrong and Phillips comes in and contributes and the Flames scoring goes up!? I had guys like you saying Ruzicka’s projected to be a middle-6 player at best when I was pitching him for the Top-6. They finally did it do to Huberdeau’s being out and wow, look what we’ve discovered. He’s definitely usable and effective in a Top-6 role when called upon. He needs more work, but Ruzicka would be a great power forward if he’s not going to be a Centre for the Flames. And just maybe Phillips becomes a Right Shot Johnny Gaudreau

You never know until you try it. We’ve tried Rooney & Lucic and they both suck the majority of the time. At least Lewis kills penalties and Ritchie knows to go to the front of the net


They started the season without using the drop back pass, it was the best the power play has looked, then they started trying to bump back to Huberdeau, it really really didn't work, Kadri was the only guy getting the puck into the zone on the powerplay, I'm not sure how you missed how anemic the powerplay was when Huberdeau was the bump back guy.

18:43 left in the 2nd period, off of Coleman's inside of his right foot, he winces, you watch him limp towards the front of the net. Stone has the hardest shot from the point, Hanifin has a severely more effective shot, through 66% of the time, Anderson has as heavy a shot but moves the puck a million times better hence playing on PP1 and having 14 points as opposed to 6. Stones shot has gone in exactly twice, it's been stopped 29 times and of those 29 only created 5 rebounds. Other than that it has been blocked, hit his own player or missed the net (which is your issue with Kadri, Kylington and Zadorov) 40 times. So when you say rarely saved, what do you mean? Cause a goalie is catching or holding onto his shots nearly 85% of the time.

Ruzicka is shockingly ineffective without the puck, two separate occasions last night he would throw a hit behind the net then just completely forget there is a play continuing on, he'd stand back there while the puck was cycled to the other side taking himself out of the play. He constantly fills the wrong lane on the backcheck and from about the red line to the top of the circles in the Flames end he's often standing within 5 feet of another Flames player. That stood out like a sore thumb live last night. Those other people are right, Ruzicka is a middle six winger and a bottom line C, he's far from defensively responsible enough to play C in the NHL which is why they have strapped him with Backlund as they do with young defensively irresponsible wingers, ie. Mangiapane, Tkachuk. Once again you have fallen in love with a guy who has a 25% shooting percentage... This once again is why I figure you may be new to game because those are insane numbers and completely unsustainable, just like Phillips.

32 GM's passed on Phillips AFTER he put up over a point per game in the AHL for an entire season, if any team out there saw even just a smidge of value in him they would have picked him up, it's not due to his resume that he isn't playing in the NHL, there is clearly drastically more than meets a casual eye test. Hell a team even saw value in Valimaki after not playing, and having an atrocious training camp, because he has good fundamentals, has tangible underlying numbers that indicate he can contribute at an NHL level. That isn't there for Phillips right now.

Again, revisit the preseason, Rooney was really effective on the wing with Backlund and Coleman, he's an effective 4C that can check in layers and needs severe puck support and guys with speed to make up for his shortcomings. Pelletier can do that, Ritchie can do that, Ruzicka can do that if bumped down. I think it was Pat Steinberg at the start of the year that said a lot of fans who are only into the surface level of the game will make Rooney their whipping boy this year, you can see that trend already on Twitter, here and funny enough a Leafs fan, almost like he isn't really into anything involving the Flames beyond a couple of highlights. You haven't presented a tangible argument yet, it's all fantasy camp stuff and "I feel"/"what if" that feels like you create on the playstation.
Dec. 6, 2022 at 6:43 p.m.
#42
TrevorA
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Quoting: WranglerWranglin
They started the season without using the drop back pass, it was the best the power play has looked, then they started trying to bump back to Huberdeau, it really really didn't work, Kadri was the only guy getting the puck into the zone on the powerplay, I'm not sure how you missed how anemic the powerplay was when Huberdeau was the bump back guy.

18:43 left in the 2nd period, off of Coleman's inside of his right foot, he winces, you watch him limp towards the front of the net. Stone has the hardest shot from the point, Hanifin has a severely more effective shot, through 66% of the time, Anderson has as heavy a shot but moves the puck a million times better hence playing on PP1 and having 14 points as opposed to 6. Stones shot has gone in exactly twice, it's been stopped 29 times and of those 29 only created 5 rebounds. Other than that it has been blocked, hit his own player or missed the net (which is your issue with Kadri, Kylington and Zadorov) 40 times. So when you say rarely saved, what do you mean? Cause a goalie is catching or holding onto his shots nearly 85% of the time.

Ruzicka is shockingly ineffective without the puck, two separate occasions last night he would throw a hit behind the net then just completely forget there is a play continuing on, he'd stand back there while the puck was cycled to the other side taking himself out of the play. He constantly fills the wrong lane on the backcheck and from about the red line to the top of the circles in the Flames end he's often standing within 5 feet of another Flames player. That stood out like a sore thumb live last night. Those other people are right, Ruzicka is a middle six winger and a bottom line C, he's far from defensively responsible enough to play C in the NHL which is why they have strapped him with Backlund as they do with young defensively irresponsible wingers, ie. Mangiapane, Tkachuk. Once again you have fallen in love with a guy who has a 25% shooting percentage... This once again is why I figure you may be new to game because those are insane numbers and completely unsustainable, just like Phillips.

32 GM's passed on Phillips AFTER he put up over a point per game in the AHL for an entire season, if any team out there saw even just a smidge of value in him they would have picked him up, it's not due to his resume that he isn't playing in the NHL, there is clearly drastically more than meets a casual eye test. Hell a team even saw value in Valimaki after not playing, and having an atrocious training camp, because he has good fundamentals, has tangible underlying numbers that indicate he can contribute at an NHL level. That isn't there for Phillips right now.

Again, revisit the preseason, Rooney was really effective on the wing with Backlund and Coleman, he's an effective 4C that can check in layers and needs severe puck support and guys with speed to make up for his shortcomings. Pelletier can do that, Ritchie can do that, Ruzicka can do that if bumped down. I think it was Pat Steinberg at the start of the year that said a lot of fans who are only into the surface level of the game will make Rooney their whipping boy this year, you can see that trend already on Twitter, here and funny enough a Leafs fan, almost like he isn't really into anything involving the Flames beyond a couple of highlights. You haven't presented a tangible argument yet, it's all fantasy camp stuff and "I feel"/"what if" that feels like you create on the playstation.


Sounds like you know it all already, so not sure what you hope to achieve here on this site exactly.

Have you put your resume in to any teams yet!?

Maybe you should act as Rooney’s agent!?

Stone, Ruzicka and maybe even Phillips one day (probably for another team though, just like Valimaki) will continue to contribute and exceed expectations, while you continue to push useless and/or unproven players based on their “projections and analytics”

I’m just gonna continue to go on with suggesting guys who are putting up results till I feel Calgary has found lines that have sufficiently clicked and they’re dominant enough to be true contenders

Have fun telling everyone you know it all and that they must be new to hockey, so probably know nothing at all
Dec. 6, 2022 at 6:59 p.m.
#43
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Quoting: KingofRnR
Sounds like you know it all already, so not sure what you hope to achieve here on this site exactly.

Have you put your resume in to any teams yet!?

Maybe you should act as Rooney’s agent!?

Stone, Ruzicka and maybe even Phillips one day (probably for another team though, just like Valimaki) will continue to contribute and exceed expectations, while you continue to push useless and/or unproven players based on their “projections and analytics”

I’m just gonna continue to go on with suggesting guys who are putting up results till I feel Calgary has found lines that have sufficiently clicked and they’re dominant enough to be true contenders


I love good conversation on here, you are lacking that so I'm just teaching you a thing or two. You're welcome.

Only one of us has their name in two rinks in Alberta for working the operations side of a junior A team in the province, and one as a builder for a Major Midget team, I am certain it isn't you.

Can't pursue agency due to conflict of interest.

Stone has blood clot issues and said he will never play anywhere outside of Calgary, that was news at the start of the year, Phillips will be in another teams AHL line up next season. Valimaki wouldn't make the Flames roster still.. what would you like them to do with him!? Hahah sit Zadorov? Or your golden boy Stone? That's what bad players do, they move onto worse teams and try resurrect a career. Good on them.

You do that, you're riding the coat tails of two guys with what would be the NHL's greatest single season shooting percentage. One of them not even in the NHL.. if Ruzicka had a league average shooting percentage which he will likely end the season with he'd be at 2 goals.. you have to understand how shooting percentage works right?

Why have you now gotten so upset yet still haven't provided a tangible piece of an argument to forward your point, all I have done is give you numbers to think about, you're blinded by really really simple parts of the game which as a fan you should be, that's the fun in it, but to adamantly push bad ideas like they have merit is disingenuous at best. '

Discredit the Stone numbers that you were trying to push earlier, that would give you a bit of a leg to stand on, you think Stone is a powerplay guy and his shot rarely gets saved, I presented that it gets saved and held 85% of the time while missing the net or getting blocked 40 times this year. What part of that really solidifies him at a powerplay guy? It's not his feet or his mobility, it's literally "puck go zoom" in simple terms.
Dec. 6, 2022 at 9:07 p.m.
#44
TrevorA
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Quoting: WranglerWranglin
I love good conversation on here, you are lacking that so I'm just teaching you a thing or two. You're welcome.

Only one of us has their name in two rinks in Alberta for working the operations side of a junior A team in the province, and one as a builder for a Major Midget team, I am certain it isn't you.

Can't pursue agency due to conflict of interest.

Stone has blood clot issues and said he will never play anywhere outside of Calgary, that was news at the start of the year, Phillips will be in another teams AHL line up next season. Valimaki wouldn't make the Flames roster still.. what would you like them to do with him!? Hahah sit Zadorov? Or your golden boy Stone? That's what bad players do, they move onto worse teams and try resurrect a career. Good on them.

You do that, you're riding the coat tails of two guys with what would be the NHL's greatest single season shooting percentage. One of them not even in the NHL.. if Ruzicka had a league average shooting percentage which he will likely end the season with he'd be at 2 goals.. you have to understand how shooting percentage works right?

Why have you now gotten so upset yet still haven't provided a tangible piece of an argument to forward your point, all I have done is give you numbers to think about, you're blinded by really really simple parts of the game which as a fan you should be, that's the fun in it, but to adamantly push bad ideas like they have merit is disingenuous at best. '

Discredit the Stone numbers that you were trying to push earlier, that would give you a bit of a leg to stand on, you think Stone is a powerplay guy and his shot rarely gets saved, I presented that it gets saved and held 85% of the time while missing the net or getting blocked 40 times this year. What part of that really solidifies him at a powerplay guy? It's not his feet or his mobility, it's literally "puck go zoom" in simple terms.



Firstly, Congratulations for your Success and Thank you for your Contributions to Alberta Hockey Sir, you obviously know hockey better than I do.

Secondly, as a fan, I too enjoy discussing hockey, but I don't enjoy and find it extremely annoying being talked down too by an egotistical know it all. Your thread is about Matthew Phillips and the Flames issue has been a Lack of Scoring, yet we're talking about Kevin "Freaking" Rooney and the 4th Line, as if that's the problem that if given a tweak or two will provide the solution to all of Calgary's problems.

If Rooney came in @$750-850k, I probably wouldn't be so dismissive of him, but the fact is he's holding back someone else from getting an opportunity. Same goes for Lucic who has scored in 40 something Regular Season Games and actually 50 something games when you include last seasons playoffs. These guys just aren't doing it for us.

I understand the 3rd & 4th line are considered checking lines and the 4th line is typically made up of a combination of Older Veterans, Checkers and Enforcers whose job is to hem the puck in the other end and to wear down & tire the opponents in short spurts, but there's no rule or law that it has to be this way. You could have an Energy line or Young Scoring Line instead. Seemingly both Yourself & Sutter are so closed minded, stubborn and traditional that you fail to realize the game is much younger and faster now. Guys are coming in at 20 years old and are killing it, look at the New Jersey Devils for example.

The Flames need to put up 3 Goals per Game NOT INCLUDING Empty Netters and they're struggling to do that. Sutter and Yourself may like close 1 goal games, but I'm hoping for a true Stanley Cup Contender and what he's tried and you recommend hasn't been working. What has been effective though is Stone, Ruzicka & Phillips:

Phillips has 15 Goals and 30 Points in 20 GP and leads the entire AHL in Scoring. His 27.7% Shot% is not sustainable, but it just shows how great & accurate of a shot he has, how can you just dismiss this? Is the 16.9% and 1.06 PPG he put up last season not excellent as well? I mean the guy can obviously finish & score, which is what the Flames have been needing. He's Hot and Full of Confidence, this is a perfect recipe and time for him to be inserted in to a lineup looking to spark more goal scoring.

You act like Ruzicka & Stone are only having success this season, when they played very well for us last season too:

Ruzicka had a 15.2% Shot Percentage and put up 5 Goals in 28 GP given just 10:13ATOI. Is it not fair to assume if given more ice time, better line mates and time on the Power Play that his 15.2% would translate to more scoring this season!? Well that's exactly what happened. He has 6 Goals in 15 GP. Sure a 24.0% Shot Percentage isn't sustainable, but that's what he's shooting now and even if it does, it won't be by a lot, he's got a great shot. You think demoting him when he's Hot and Full of Confidence makes sense? If somebody else was playing better & contributing more, I'd say sure, but nobody is. The closest is Ritchie with 18.5% than Lindholm with 14.1%. Ruzicka's Shooting Percentage has been twice as effective than Kadri, Dube & Mangiapane and is 2.5x more effective than Toffoli; until they start netting pucks more efficiently,Ruzicka deserves to be in the Top-6

Stone is Better at Contributing Offensively than he is at Defending. His Shot % this season is 6.5% and he's put up 0.40PPG as a 3rd Pairing D-Man given less than 14:00ATOI, that's very good and he didn't just do it this year. Last season he put up 0.55-0.56PPG with an 8.33% Shot Percentage in BOTH the Regular Season and then he did it again in the Playoffs. He's obviously playing the Best Hockey of his Career right now. He's Hot, he's Confident and he's generating Goals, what more can you ask for!? He should be used more and thus more goals will be created as a result.

As for his play on the Power Play, Stone's SThr% was 70% last season and is 57.1% this season, which is very good. He rarely misses the net or hits his own teammates. Again, if he doesn't score himself, he typically takes an opposing player or their stick out or many times the goalie gives up a rebound. Very rarely does a Goalie stop or glove his shot and even when they do, that shot is very intimidating and rattles the goalie, especially when they take it in the Chest, Shoulder or Mask. A Goalie can only take so many of those before it throws them off their game. If opponents try to stop it, that just opens up more space for the other Flames, so that blast from the point is very useful and no, nobody else has that hard or accurate of a shot, including Andersson

Andersson is decent at distributing the puck, but isn't very good at Scoring on the PP with only 2 Goals last season and 0 this season. On the PP, Andersson missed the net 18/81 times and had his shot blocked 22/81 times last season for a SThr% of 50.6% last season, but this season he's even worse having missed 6/28 and having 11/28 shot attempts blocked for a dismal 39.3% SThr% this season.

Hanifin isn't any better having only scored 1 goal on the PP last season and 0 so far this season. He has an accurate wrist shot but still missed the net 10//56 times and was Blocked 19/56 times for just a 48.2% SThr% last season. He has been better this year with only 2/24 missed shots and 6/24 that were blocked for a 67% SThr% though

Weegar hasn't had much PP time, but his Career SThr% on the PP is 60% and like Kylington and other Offensive Defensemen, Weegar likes to pinch down when there's an opening for a one timer. Given the points he put up last season and his career Shot% with FLA of 5.2% vs. Hanifin's 4.2% and Andersson's 4.5% with CGY, he appears to have the more accurate shot and offers another Right Shot to the mix.

Now Kylington has a better 6.9% Shot%, but he only Scored 1PP Goal in 73 Games last Season. 4/28 of his shot attempts were misses and 9/28 were blocked for a 53.6% SThr%. Statistically it's better than I thought he did, but I didn't really like him on the PP last year at all tbh

To me it's obvious Stone will Score far more than any of the above, but Andersson & Hanifin are the better Puck Distributors. We don't really know about Weegar since he hasn't played a ton of PP in his career.

My point is if we're looking to increase scoring, you gotta go with the guys who are Hot & Confident. Changing up a couple 4th line "replacement" players isn't going to do that.

Not sure where you're getting your 85% saved & held and 40 blocked shots, that must be overall, but again it's still effective at creating O-Zone Faceoffs and Damaging Opponents and/or leaving them Stickless and sometimes even Bladeless which gives our Team an advantage as a result. Play him as long as he can keep his play over the last year up, he's at his best right now and hasn't been a defensive liability. Go with what's most effective and has been working
Dec. 7, 2022 at 10:14 a.m.
#45
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Quoting: KingofRnR
Firstly, Congratulations for your Success and Thank you for your Contributions to Alberta Hockey Sir, you obviously know hockey better than I do.

Secondly, as a fan, I too enjoy discussing hockey, but I don't enjoy and find it extremely annoying being talked down too by an egotistical know it all. Your thread is about Matthew Phillips and the Flames issue has been a Lack of Scoring, yet we're talking about Kevin "Freaking" Rooney and the 4th Line, as if that's the problem that if given a tweak or two will provide the solution to all of Calgary's problems.

If Rooney came in $750-850k, I probably wouldn't be so dismissive of him, but the fact is he's holding back someone else from getting an opportunity. Same goes for Lucic who has scored in 40 something Regular Season Games and actually 50 something games when you include last seasons playoffs. These guys just aren't doing it for us.

I understand the 3rd & 4th line are considered checking lines and the 4th line is typically made up of a combination of Older Veterans, Checkers and Enforcers whose job is to hem the puck in the other end and to wear down & tire the opponents in short spurts, but there's no rule or law that it has to be this way. You could have an Energy line or Young Scoring Line instead. Seemingly both Yourself & Sutter are so closed minded, stubborn and traditional that you fail to realize the game is much younger and faster now. Guys are coming in at 20 years old and are killing it, look at the New Jersey Devils for example.

The Flames need to put up 3 Goals per Game NOT INCLUDING Empty Netters and they're struggling to do that. Sutter and Yourself may like close 1 goal games, but I'm hoping for a true Stanley Cup Contender and what he's tried and you recommend hasn't been working. What has been effective though is Stone, Ruzicka & Phillips:

Phillips has 15 Goals and 30 Points in 20 GP and leads the entire AHL in Scoring. His 27.7% Shot% is not sustainable, but it just shows how great & accurate of a shot he has, how can you just dismiss this? Is the 16.9% and 1.06 PPG he put up last season not excellent as well? I mean the guy can obviously finish & score, which is what the Flames have been needing. He's Hot and Full of Confidence, this is a perfect recipe and time for him to be inserted in to a lineup looking to spark more goal scoring.

You act like Ruzicka & Stone are only having success this season, when they played very well for us last season too:

Ruzicka had a 15.2% Shot Percentage and put up 5 Goals in 28 GP given just 10:13ATOI. Is it not fair to assume if given more ice time, better line mates and time on the Power Play that his 15.2% would translate to more scoring this season!? Well that's exactly what happened. He has 6 Goals in 15 GP. Sure a 24.0% Shot Percentage isn't sustainable, but that's what he's shooting now and even if it does, it won't be by a lot, he's got a great shot. You think demoting him when he's Hot and Full of Confidence makes sense? If somebody else was playing better & contributing more, I'd say sure, but nobody is. The closest is Ritchie with 18.5% than Lindholm with 14.1%. Ruzicka's Shooting Percentage has been twice as effective than Kadri, Dube & Mangiapane and is 2.5x more effective than Toffoli; until they start netting pucks more efficiently,Ruzicka deserves to be in the Top-6

Stone is Better at Contributing Offensively than he is at Defending. His Shot % this season is 6.5% and he's put up 0.40PPG as a 3rd Pairing D-Man given less than 14:00ATOI, that's very good and he didn't just do it this year. Last season he put up 0.55-0.56PPG with an 8.33% Shot Percentage in BOTH the Regular Season and then he did it again in the Playoffs. He's obviously playing the Best Hockey of his Career right now. He's Hot, he's Confident and he's generating Goals, what more can you ask for!? He should be used more and thus more goals will be created as a result.

As for his play on the Power Play, Stone's SThr% was 70% last season and is 57.1% this season, which is very good. He rarely misses the net or hits his own teammates. Again, if he doesn't score himself, he typically takes an opposing player or their stick out or many times the goalie gives up a rebound. Very rarely does a Goalie stop or glove his shot and even when they do, that shot is very intimidating and rattles the goalie, especially when they take it in the Chest, Shoulder or Mask. A Goalie can only take so many of those before it throws them off their game. If opponents try to stop it, that just opens up more space for the other Flames, so that blast from the point is very useful and no, nobody else has that hard or accurate of a shot, including Andersson

Andersson is decent at distributing the puck, but isn't very good at Scoring on the PP with only 2 Goals last season and 0 this season. On the PP, Andersson missed the net 18/81 times and had his shot blocked 22/81 times last season for a SThr% of 50.6% last season, but this season he's even worse having missed 6/28 and having 11/28 shot attempts blocked for a dismal 39.3% SThr% this season.

Hanifin isn't any better having only scored 1 goal on the PP last season and 0 so far this season. He has an accurate wrist shot but still missed the net 10//56 times and was Blocked 19/56 times for just a 48.2% SThr% last season. He has been better this year with only 2/24 missed shots and 6/24 that were blocked for a 67% SThr% though

Weegar hasn't had much PP time, but his Career SThr% on the PP is 60% and like Kylington and other Offensive Defensemen, Weegar likes to pinch down when there's an opening for a one timer. Given the points he put up last season and his career Shot% with FLA of 5.2% vs. Hanifin's 4.2% and Andersson's 4.5% with CGY, he appears to have the more accurate shot and offers another Right Shot to the mix.

Now Kylington has a better 6.9% Shot%, but he only Scored 1PP Goal in 73 Games last Season. 4/28 of his shot attempts were misses and 9/28 were blocked for a 53.6% SThr%. Statistically it's better than I thought he did, but I didn't really like him on the PP last year at all tbh

To me it's obvious Stone will Score far more than any of the above, but Andersson & Hanifin are the better Puck Distributors. We don't really know about Weegar since he hasn't played a ton of PP in his career.

My point is if we're looking to increase scoring, you gotta go with the guys who are Hot & Confident. Changing up a couple 4th line "replacement" players isn't going to do that.

Not sure where you're getting your 85% saved & held and 40 blocked shots, that must be overall, but again it's still effective at creating O-Zone Faceoffs and Damaging Opponents and/or leaving them Stickless and sometimes even Bladeless which gives our Team an advantage as a result. Play him as long as he can keep his play over the last year up, he's at his best right now and hasn't been a defensive liability. Go with what's most effective and has been working


Sticking with Phillips because as you said that's what the thread is about. 17% shooting and over a point per game last season is excellent, if he had all the tools to make him an NHL'er a team would have jumped all over that production on waivers.

Stone has created 5 rebounds this season, has 31 shots and 71 shot attempts with 2 goals. Math is all there. He misses the net or has his shot blocked most of the time.
Dec. 8, 2022 at 3:22 p.m.
#46
TrevorA
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Quoting: WranglerWranglin
Sticking with Phillips because as you said that's what the thread is about. 17% shooting and over a point per game last season is excellent, if he had all the tools to make him an NHL'er a team would have jumped all over that production on waivers.

Stone has created 5 rebounds this season, has 31 shots and 71 shot attempts with 2 goals. Math is all there. He misses the net or has his shot blocked most of the time.


Looks like things are starting to go my way:

Rooney has been Waived and Matthew Phillips gets the Call Up

Not his best game last night, but Stone still got 3 shots on net, so he doesn’t miss it very often. He’s great at getting the puck on net which is how goals go in

If you’re actually Darryl Sutter, thanks for hearing me out on this and for finally taking this well measured action.
Dec. 8, 2022 at 3:53 p.m.
#47
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Quoting: KingofRnR
Looks like things are starting to go my way:

Rooney has been Waived and Matthew Phillips gets the Call Up

Not his best game last night, but Stone still got 3 shots on net, so he doesn’t miss it very often. He’s great at getting the puck on net which is how goals go in

If you’re actually Darryl Sutter, thanks for hearing me out on this and for finally taking this well measured action.


You're so weird that you're so into this. What could you possibly mean by "going my way" do you have so few victories in life that 23 guys playing hockey that couldn't care less about you have this drastic of an effect on you?

As stated, again and again and again and again and again and again there are tools missing in Phillips game, hopefully Backlund and Coleman can elevate that part of his game and drag him along, he's still accomplished zero in the NHL so before you decide that you're going to swallow his gravy, see what he can do on the road trip. Also as said, again and again and again, it's time for a call up, Phillips is a weird fit unless Ruzicka is moving to 4C, tough trying to watch you fit two AHL golden boys into the line up.

Did you watch the game or just look at your favourite surface level stuff again? Stone had 2 shots from the offensive zone, did not create a single rebound, did not create a single high danger scoring chance, both from as far away from the net as you can be in the O Zone, he also missed the net once from there, his third shot was FROM THE RED LINE!! More telling, he had a blatant turnover on the offensive blue line allowing Minnesota to negate the zone time and was -1 in 9 minutes of ice time... He could be one of the most wildly ineffective shooters on the roster. Also regarding Stone, go look at the numbers that his linemates put up with and without him on the ice. Did you know he was a -71%(!!!!!!!!) in GFR% last night?
Dec. 8, 2022 at 4:13 p.m.
#48
TrevorA
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Quoting: WranglerWranglin
You're so weird that you're so into this. What could you possibly mean by "going my way" do you have so few victories in life that 23 guys playing hockey that couldn't care less about you have this drastic of an effect on you?

As stated, again and again and again and again and again and again there are tools missing in Phillips game, hopefully Backlund and Coleman can elevate that part of his game and drag him along, he's still accomplished zero in the NHL so before you decide that you're going to swallow his gravy, see what he can do on the road trip. Also as said, again and again and again, it's time for a call up, Phillips is a weird fit unless Ruzicka is moving to 4C, tough trying to watch you fit two AHL golden boys into the line up.

Did you watch the game or just look at your favourite surface level stuff again? Stone had 2 shots from the offensive zone, did not create a single rebound, did not create a single high danger scoring chance, both from as far away from the net as you can be in the O Zone, he also missed the net once from there, his third shot was FROM THE RED LINE!! More telling, he had a blatant turnover on the offensive blue line allowing Minnesota to negate the zone time and was -1 in 9 minutes of ice time... He could be one of the most wildly ineffective shooters on the roster. Also regarding Stone, go look at the numbers that his linemates put up with and without him on the ice. Did you know he was a -71%(!!!!!!!!) in GFR% last night?

You’re disgusting dude 🤮

How did Your Boy Rooney do again last night!?

Flames need help Scoring and it’s about time Phillips finally got a look. We’ll see how he does, but all I’ve been asking is that he be given a chance

Stone almost scored on one of his shots, Fleury barely dropped his arm enough to close the hole and didn’t handle it cleanly but was able to hold on to it

I very much enjoy when my predictions & recommendations happen. Hopefully Phillips does well and you end up with his gravy all over your face. Is that how it’s done!? 🤢
Dec. 8, 2022 at 5:58 p.m.
#49
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Quoting: KingofRnR
You’re disgusting dude 🤮

How did Your Boy Rooney do again last night!?

Flames need help Scoring and it’s about time Phillips finally got a look. We’ll see how he does, but all I’ve been asking is that he be given a chance

Stone almost scored on one of his shots, Fleury barely dropped his arm enough to close the hole and didn’t handle it cleanly but was able to hold on to it

I very much enjoy when my predictions & recommendations happen. Hopefully Phillips does well and you end up with his gravy all over your face. Is that how it’s done!? 🤢


I'm not sure where you have created this thing in your head where I love Rooney, he's an effective 4th liner with the right wingers, has not been put in that position. You're smart enough to know that and you're just trying to grasp onto anything to feel right.

Stone didn't score on 1 of his shots though. He didn't really even come close, the puck flipped end over end 7 times before it hit Fleury in the top of the pad with absolutely zero people in the sight line of a Veizna winning goaltender and no rebound, (16:17 left in the second period if you'd like to look it up). Tough to make stuff up when literally everything on the ice is documented. Did you know that roughly 10 of 510 shots from that part of the ice go in? And he's shooting from the furthest possible part of that zone. Almost like if he could lift his head up, find a lane or a different option he'd be a much more effective shooter, but again, your casual surface lever shine bright like a diamond!

That's all I needed to hear, you'd rather feel right than learn a thing or two and genuinely have a take on something instead of "I feel this and it should happen". Everyone hopes Phillips succeeds, at a fan level that's your job, blindly cheer for your team, with no room in the top 6 and Ruzicka producing with Backlund and Coleman either Phillips or Ruzicka will play on the 4th line, the call up is fitting a square peg in a round hole.
Dec. 8, 2022 at 8:15 p.m.
#50
TrevorA
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Quoting: WranglerWranglin
I'm not sure where you have created this thing in your head where I love Rooney, he's an effective 4th liner with the right wingers, has not been put in that position. You're smart enough to know that and you're just trying to grasp onto anything to feel right.

Stone didn't score on 1 of his shots though. He didn't really even come close, the puck flipped end over end 7 times before it hit Fleury in the top of the pad with absolutely zero people in the sight line of a Veizna winning goaltender and no rebound, (16:17 left in the second period if you'd like to look it up). Tough to make stuff up when literally everything on the ice is documented. Did you know that roughly 10 of 510 shots from that part of the ice go in? And he's shooting from the furthest possible part of that zone. Almost like if he could lift his head up, find a lane or a different option he'd be a much more effective shooter, but again, your casual surface lever shine bright like a diamond!

That's all I needed to hear, you'd rather feel right than learn a thing or two and genuinely have a take on something instead of "I feel this and it should happen". Everyone hopes Phillips succeeds, at a fan level that's your job, blindly cheer for your team, with no room in the top 6 and Ruzicka producing with Backlund and Coleman either Phillips or Ruzicka will play on the 4th line, the call up is fitting a square peg in a round hole.


I get it, you're mad cause you're the supposed "Hockey Expert" and yet, my Calls & Recommendations are the ones they're going with. I Win! Better Luck on the Next One!!!
 
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