Your missing nothing other than you have Darryl Sutter as a coach

I don't personally feel like there's a ton of harm in giving him a handful of games at some point if the need is there, but you hit the nail on the head with those undersized high-scoring AHLers...it *rarely* translates to the NHL, and I appreciate the fact that you're not trying to blow him up into this ubertalented potential superstar. It's also interesting because if even if you do the top 5 from each of those years, they're *typically* similar players (Aside from the rare 20 year old getting his feet wet before his NHL debut)

By the way, welcome to Capfriendly!

I don't think you read anything, I agree with Sutter in not calling him up. He's defensively not good, shooting at an unsustainable rate and clearly didn't get the eyes of any other teams after a solid pre season.

That's along the lines of what I am thinking too. A lot of good undersized forwards never amount to anything. I think he needs to play at some point but for a waivers eligible player with a through the roof shooting percentage, is that point with nearly 60 games left in the season where if he's called up he will either need to play, sit in the press box or go on waiver again? Feels like an after the deadline call up at the earliest.

Thank you!

You are right. There are problems with Phillips game and they have often been the main thing preventing him from translating success to the NHL level. Is height a factor? Sure but so is defensive awareness. It's very hard to justify promoting a guy who isn't strong defensively to the NHL.

We've seen what Phillips can do offensively for a few years now the problem is his improvement in other areas. I agree that Pelletier or Zary should be given a look as they are waiver exempt.

What makes Verhaeghe even more of an outlier is he is a 1st line player, or a top 6 player at worst. Certainly not a middle 6 player

Welcome to Capfriendly. Good points made. Not a flames fan but also not a fan of Phillips play. I think after deadline is the best case scenario for him.

That's the whole point of giving an chance. If he gets it, two things happen:
-Either he's an NHLer and you improve your team
-Either you return him and know he's an AHLer

If you just decide to never give him a shot and he could actually be a good NHLer, you've not only wasted the player but also an opportunity to become a better team. Or you can just decide he isn't good enough for the NHL after 14:19 of play.

to small and not physical enough for the NHL, especially center

If he's not an NHLer then they're looking at a spot where they have completely stunted his development though, by either having to sit him in a press box or they potentially lose him through waivers on the way back down to the AHL. It's kind of a catch twenty two, if the Flames were 10 games above .500 then it would be great to get a guy in the line up to audition to add to the scoring but they really wouldn't need to if they had a better record. As of now, adding a guy to "give him a chance" is too risky in terms of losing ground in the division. Sutter doesn't want to coach to develop guys he wants NHL ready players on the roster. Phillips clearly isn't

No one has decided anything about him yet, he's a good scorer in the minor leagues with holes in his game that have made him not a viable option for the NHL according to 32 NHL GM's seeing as how he cleared waivers.

He's listed as a C on here but I don't think he's even played down the middle with the Wranglers yet this season. He's been on Zary's wing any time I have been to a game. Your point still stands, just a little more info.

You can play him 9 games instead of 10 and don't risk having to place him on waivers again. The issue with Sutter not wanting to develop guys (aside from the need to develop players to stay good), the Flames don't have at least 13 effective NHL forwards right now. I would rather try an option that has a chance to work instead of going back with something that clearly doesn't work but it might be me.

"Phillips clearly isn't" Again. How do you know if he's never had a chance in the NHL?

Phillips might just be another Cole Caufield who is the exact same Size & Height, but we’ll never really know since he’s never been and will probably never be given a chance under Stubborn Sutter

Okay that might be a bit far fetched, but hopefully you get my point

We should have had call ups for the last 2 games while the Wranglers were on break and the next 2 games while they play a weak team. I’m sure there’s a benefit to promoting and seeing couple other guys in the Wranglers Top-6, while Pelletier & Phillips perhaps are up
Playing with the Flames for a couple games

Martin St. Louis wasn’t much bigger and wasn’t even Drafted and he had an amazing NHL Career. Why the Flames organization even Drafts these small guys is beyond me, yet they did give Gaudreau an opportunity

There’s absolutely no way Phillips can do any less or worse than the $5.25 million Fighter we have that doesn’t Fight anymore. Phillips can’t be any worse defensively than Lucic either

Your 100% right. The in thing is to hate on Darryl right now, which is hilarious because thats not even his part of his job, with the exception of Treliving obviously valuing his coaches input, which is standard everywhere except in Vancouver lol. Wranglers are doing well, but this rhetoric that Phillips is going to be a saviour because he is doing very well at the AHL level is beyod me. Don't get me wrong, he could be a good player, but he is not special to anyone else but us, he is part of a pretty standard group of players that dominate the level below....these people seem to be talking themselves into the idea that the AHL and NHL are a lateral move...may not say it word for word, but don't kid yourselves, they are slowly convincing themselves of this. It is too bad, because I am actually int he camp that they should give him a shot, but the unrealistic rhettoric that is starting to surround him, including fans pittibg player vs. coach, is not setting his debut this year up fro much success if there is one and doing more harm than good.

ALso, this we need a younger 4th line is again an argument that I can emapthize with, but then somewhere people started saying their opinion so much, that they started to believe their opinion was science. Or the idea that if you get rid of Daryll then all of the sudden Phillips would get a chance and be great when they don't realize the next coach and GM would be no different, then they can hate on that guy until he gets fired, and then we can keep doing this (does it sound familiar!?) haha. Listen, it takes a few years to fully fully grasp a coaches system, well, a year ad a bit to grasp it and another year to play freely within it. The point is its not a coincidence that the longest tenured coaches are generally the most successful, including the last 3 years. Helm, Cogliano as well were on thier 4th line and they looked good, and aren;t AHL call ups, and COlorado did okay with the older energy line and long tenured coach.

I don’t necessarily believe that many ppl think the AHL and NHL are lateral moves, but they’re both Professional Hockey Leagues. The NHL has the Best of the Best and they’re mainly Bigger as most are fully developed adults, but the AHL is full of former and future as well as fringe NHL’ers and the Goaltending can’t be that far off

Phillips has earned a shot at more than just 1 game,
Especially since the Flames are struggling offensively. They need a finisher and that’s exactly what Phillips is. He probably is a one dimensional player, but there’s plenty of those in the NHL

Phillips may or may not have similar success scoring in the NHL, but we won’t know unless he’s given a fair chance. The other and more important thing it would do is hopefully push current under performing Flames to compete for ice time

I understand and agree to think Phillips will be an instant solution and will perform the way he does in the AHL is not realistic, but doing nothing will not change or improve the Flames and I do believe Phillips is more deserving than Pelletier and far more deserving than Zary right now

You could go with Bigger guys (Zohorna, Schwindt, Duehr, Jones, Klapka), but they won’t finish or score like Phillips can, which again is what the Flames need right now

Well I wouldn’t put Phillips on a “Checking Line” but I’d certainly spread the talent and role 4 “Scoring Lines”

Either keep Pelletier & Phillips together with a Defensive Centre like Backlund:

Pelletier-Backlund-Phillips

OR split them up:

Mangiapane-Backlund-Phillips
Pelletier-Dube-Ritchie/Lewis

Or make a limited minutes High Energy Scoring 4th Line:

Mangiapane-Dube-Phillips OR
Pelletier-Dube-Mangiapane

I’m opposed to a full rookie line like:

Pelletier-Ruzicka/Zary-Phillips

They need a Veteran Presence and Sheltering, but I’m confident they would increase scoring, especially if Pelletier &/or Phillips are used on the 2nd PP Unit

Again, there is absolutely no harm in giving Phillips a shot, especially for a team desperate for more scoring.

There absolutely is a way that he can do worse. Lucic has a role and plays that role, Lucic is a nuclear deterrent and one of the few remaining in the league, people don't take liberties against the Flames and it shows. Lucic fought 7 times last season and the roster for those fights is just full of monster humans, guys who play the same role as Lucic and it's their job to run around and hit the opposing teams top line, the Flames don't have a Nick Deslauries or Kurtis McDermid running around and blowing up Lindholm and Huberdeau, they have a preventative measure. I can understand how casual fans miss that dynamic of the game but it's very important.

Phillips was +14 with 68 points on the team with the least goals against last season... That's a pretty quick and easy indicator that he can be much worse than Lucic defensively.




I agree the 4th line needs an overhaul and I understand that it's not fast enough, but if that's the case Rooney needs to draw back in with Ritchie and Lucic or Ritchie and Lewis. Rooney was playing fast, hitting everything but it was almost too fast for the other two on the line, I think Ritchie and Rooney would be a really solid group on the 4th line, both are good at pinning teams in their D zone, they recover pucks well but never seem to have support to move the puck too and then they look like they're trapped and made a bad play when in reality their line mates haven't got up ice in time. A rookie like Zary, Klapka, Zohorna, Schwindt, Duher even Pelletier could work on the 4th line if it was a line like Mangiapane had with Hathaway, fast, tenacious and straight line skating. Putting any rookie with Lewis and Lucic is not asing for success.




I do like that you pulled a tweet directly from the most casual wannabe talking head in the Flames twitterverse, outside of Noah Adler, Mike may be the biggest waste of space when it comes to writing anything regarding the Flames. It's cherry picked, disingenuous and he repeats stuff that he doesn't understand. Just an awful argument to present. Mangiapane did well on a 4th line because that line was structured that way, putting a rookie Mangiapane on a 4th line with 2 of Lucic, Ritchie, Lewis in no way would produce the same results and Mangiapane wouldn't be the player he is today. He played with Hathaway who went on to earn himself an awesome contract because of how well he played as well, that's not near the same situation that Calgary is in now. There is harm in trying Phillips for the hell of it right now, if you can't see that you're missing a basic understanding of call ups, waivers, production translating to the NHL.

I look forward to when Phillips is called up and producing.

Keep holding your breath for Poturalski, Tynan, Anas and all the other undersized guys that tear up the AHL! Production is great but even the article you have linked, you can CTRL+F and can't find one instance of defensive, defence/defence, responsible, own zone, check, d-zone, coverage. What you can find though is...

"While he’s strong on his feet, there isn’t much of a physical edge to his game. In a stick battle, he’s likely to win, but when it’s a battle of strength, Phillips struggles. I don’t believe that this will/should keep him out of the NHL, but old-school hockey minds will think differently."

"We can’t talk about smarts without mention of shortcomings though. No player is perfect, but this is a very bad look from Phillips for both his route choice and the pass. While plays like this aren’t a regular occurrence from him, it’s a mistake that cannot happen. Luckily, goaltender Dustin Wolf bails his teammate out, but this could have easily led to a goal against. Rare or not, plays like this will keep Phillips from getting his overdue call-up."

a 55 out of 80 in the article means he could be roughly NHL average at his full maturity of his game. That's not really a raving review that you're going for here.

Listen to any interview with a guy coming up to the NHL from the AHL, no one talks about the pace being astronomically different, they talk about the game feeling simpler because everyone is in perfect position all the time, they also talk about how the physicality and the strength of guys is the biggest difference. None of that makes for a good situation for Phillips unless he's getting 70/30 O-zone starts and playing against other teams best offensive lines as opposed to their shut down lines, which in that case you can't really trust him to stop other teams from scoring.

Every player has their strengths and weaknesses. Phillips might be one dimensional but his strengths might still outweigh his weaknesses. Play him with a Defensive Centre like Backlund to assist him and have him become a PP Specialist. The same applies to Pelletier. Flames are struggling to finish, so bring up somebody who can.

Fortunately Mang, Coleman & Dube appear to be improving but as for Lucic, he’s only good at hitting and looks decent about 50% of the games he’s in, sometimes not even getting a single hit or shot on net. There’s no way Phillips can be any worse than Lucic as Defence in his own zone either. That’s simply impossible. Lucic isn’t fighting at all this year, besides we have Ritchie & Zadorov or Gilbert who can hit and fight to give that presence, so it’s not like we need Lucic every night

I’m not opposed to Lucic, but he’s our worst player and needs to be used sparingly and if we’re lacking in scoring and finishing, you bring up a guy or two who can, just make sure to set them up for success with a Defensive Centre and either a Veteran or familiar Winger. Phillips deserves his shot, he’s earned it but I don’t see him ever getting it under Sutter

Valimaki didn’t either with Sutter and yet he now seems to be doing just fine and is also much happier elsewhere

Playing him with Backlund and Coleman is going completely against what he needs, heavy OZone starts and no defensive responsibility, it's giving Backlund and Coleman a passenger that they would have to carry through two thirds of the ice. They play against McDavid, Mackinnon, Roberston etc. putting Phillips anywhere near that should be illegal. If he comes up it would need to be with Kadri or Lindholm and at this time you're not moving any of those wingers to facilitate an AHL player with no responsibility in half the ice. Pelletier was fantastic in 200 feet of the ice at the last years world juniors, started on the 4th line worked his way up because of how complete his game was, him with Backlund and Coleman makes sense, Phillips does not at all.

I mean, 4 out of 24 games he has registered 0 hits, all games that the Flames lost so you could argue that the game script lends to him not playing as much in the second half. I agree that the 4th line needs an overhaul, that should have no effect on Matthew Phillips. If they were to put out the most effective 4th line without running into waiver issues and losing guys for nothing it should be a combination of:

Lucic - Rooney - Ritchie
Lewis - Rooney - Ritchie
Lucic - Ruzicka - Ritchie
Pelletier/Zary - Rooney - Ritchie
Pelletier/Zary - Ruzicka - Lucic
Lucic - Rooney - Duher/Klapka/Zohorna

Coleman should be on Kadri’s line imo

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Phillips
Pelletier-Backlund-Toffoli
Coleman-Kadri-Ritchie/Lewis/New Acquisition
Dube-Ruzicka-Mangiapane

Either Role or Match the lines accordingly. Phillips should not have a problem playing against Top-6 Smaller guys like Cole Caufield or Kailer Yamamoto for example. Lots of Teams have small players he can match up against.

Make Kadri’s line the “Checking Line” of we need to label one as that, otherwise just go with more balanced lines: Playmaker-Centre-Finisher (applied to lines 1,2&4)

Obviously insert more Size & Grit = Lucic against Bigger Teams like Nashville or where his Enforcement is necessary but keep him away from the Fast Teams like EDM and NJD

Alternatively, I’d like to acquire guys like Ivan Barbashev and/or Luke Kunin. Bo Horvat would be the best possible “Star Player” acquisition imo and then move Kadri to the wing