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the player we should have drafted

Team: 2022-23 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Dec. 20, 2022
Published: Dec. 20, 2022
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
This IS NOT a conversion about the illness concern of Amirov.

That is sad and we all wish him well.

If everyone remembered Leaf fans and media alike, wanted Schneider to be Drafted because he fit so many of the Leafs current needs, a big skilled Rhd Dman.

Again do not come at me with Amirov's illness, this is NOT about that.

This is hockey related.

Wishing Amirov a speedy and healthy recovery.
Trades
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2023
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2024
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2025
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
25$82,500,000$82,157,913$212,500$400,000$342,087
Left WingCentreRight Wing
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$950,000$950,000
LW
UFA - 1
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$11,640,250$11,640,250
C
UFA - 2
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$10,903,000$10,903,000
RW
UFA - 3
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$796,667$796,667
LW, RW
RFA - 2
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$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 3
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$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
UFA - 2
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$827,500$827,500
C, LW
RFA - 1
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$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, C, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
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$2,100,000$2,100,000
RW, C, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 4
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$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
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$1,500,000$1,500,000
C
UFA - 1
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$840,630$840,630
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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$7,500,000$7,500,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 8
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$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD/RD
NTC
UFA - 2
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$4,687,500$4,687,500
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
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$1,400,000$1,400,000
LD
UFA - 2
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$1,400,000$1,400,000
RD
RFA - 2
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$1,800,000$1,800,000
G
UFA - 1
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$800,000$800,000
LD
UFA - 2
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$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$400,000$400K)
RD
RFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
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$762,500$762,500
LW, RW
UFA - 1
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$5,625,000$5,625,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 2
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$900,000$900,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
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$750,000$750,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
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$2,000,000$2,000,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
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$750,000$750,000
G
UFA - 1

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Dec. 20, 2022 at 4:20 p.m.
#26
Kster
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Quoting: palhal
I never understood the Amirov selection. Left wingers and left handed defencemen are the most populous players....66% of player shoot left. There probably wasn't a big cap between talent Amirov, and selections picked slightly below him, RWer Dawson of NJ and Rangers RHD Schnedier.
Sorry I'll disagree with other who say Dubas has been good at drafting. Correct if I"m wrong, but on defence just Sandin and LIljegren...both first rounders...I should hope first rounders should be in the NHL.
Holmberg...a great pick in the sixth round and injured Robertson. So in his time as GM....he has drafted just four NHLers. And the Leafs NHL to be prospects isn' that promising.


I think you’re being a bit unfair on Dubas; dude has only had 5 drafts and from those only 2 x 1st rounders (late) - Sandin & Amirov. Sandin looks legit (takes D typically 3-4 years to coke good) & Amirov - we all know the story. We can look back at any and every GM & highlight their misses on draft day; kind of pointless exercise imo. Looks to be lots of good picks in lower rounds in recent years and Leafs have one of the best prospect pools amongst ‘top’ teams (as measured by draft position & qty of picks - top teams typically trade their picks at TDL).
Of course the bottom feeders have better prospect pools but they pick first & keep (even add to) all of their picks .
Compared to Bruins, Tampa, Avs, etc - Leafs are in good shape relatively.
Dec. 20, 2022 at 4:24 p.m.
#27
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
Nah, you're exactly who im thinking of. The guy who made a "leafs need to trade selfish nylander because he'll cost too much" after nylander scored 5 points against calgary.


Nope.

I made a post stating the Leafs should resign Nylander to a $80 x 8 year contract (than reduced it to $8.8 AAV after receiving backlash), so I haven't spoken ill word about Nylander in the past year or 2.

I admit a few years back I did, but mainly to defend against the trade Marner fad which was strong at the time.
Dec. 20, 2022 at 4:27 p.m.
#28
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
Nope.

I made a post stating the Leafs should resign Nylander to a $80 x 8 year contract (than reduced it to $8.8 AAV after receiving backlash), so I haven't spoken ill word about Nylander in the past year or 2.

I admit a few years back I did, but mainly to defend against the trade Marner fad which was strong at the time.

Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
Nope.

I made a post stating the Leafs should resign Nylander to a $80 x 8 year contract (than reduced it to $8.8 AAV after receiving backlash), so I haven't spoken ill word about Nylander in the past year or 2.

I admit a few years back I did, but mainly to defend against the trade Marner fad which was strong at the time.


Lol, no, you made a post saying hes going to be selfish and demand too much money with terrible reasoning in a tread literally called "trading nylander".
You're incredibly transparent
Dec. 20, 2022 at 4:30 p.m.
#29
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Edited Dec. 20, 2022 at 4:40 p.m.
Quoting: JaredOfLondon
Lol, no, you made a post saying hes going to be selfish and demand too much money with terrible reasoning in a tread literally called "trading nylander".
You're incredibly transparent


He will ask for too much and the smart hockey move would be trade him, but if his agent is reasonable than a $8 to $10 contract extension can work.

But we know the story. His agent is a headache to deal with.

So given the choice, I'd trade him.

Nothing wrong with sound reasoning.

And you know this site is for fun ?

Where's the fun in doing status quo.

The What If? threads are by far more interesting and thought provoking.

And looking up your ACGM history, umm... there is none, so either you're too afraid to post because you'd rather be the troll than be trolled.
Dec. 20, 2022 at 4:46 p.m.
#30
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
He will ask for too much and the smart hockey move would be trade him, but if his agent is reasonable than a $8 to $10 contract extension can work.

But we know the story. His agent is a headache to deal with.

So giving the choice, I'd trade him.

Nothing wrong with sound reasoning.

And you know this site is for fun ?

Where's the fun in doing status quo.

The What If? threads are by far more interesting and thought provoking.

And looking up your ACGM history, umm... there is none, so either you're too afraid to post because you'd rather be the troll than be trolled.


See what i mean? Terribly stilted and very incorrect info, he didnt ask for too much, and his agent isnt a headache to deal with. These are stories people made up because they dont like Nylander.
Theres nothing wrong with sound reasoning at all, but you should try it some time.
And yes, the site is for fun, you know what isnt fun? Trading a guy to make the team worse because you dont like him and made up stories to justify that dislike,
Garbage trades and fantasy contract asks are less fun than the status quo.
And looking up your agm history its nothing but "im mad at dubas" or "im mad at Nylander " or both
Dec. 20, 2022 at 5:08 p.m.
#31
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Not drafting Schneider turned out to be just fine for the Leafs.
Dec. 20, 2022 at 5:08 p.m.
#32
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
See what i mean? Terribly stilted and very incorrect info, he didnt ask for too much, and his agent isnt a headache to deal with. These are stories people made up because they dont like Nylander.
Theres nothing wrong with sound reasoning at all, but you should try it some time.
And yes, the site is for fun, you know what isnt fun? Trading a guy to make the team worse because you dont like him and made up stories to justify that dislike,
Garbage trades and fantasy contract asks are less fun than the status quo.
And looking up your agm history its nothing but "im mad at dubas" or "im mad at Nylander " or both


I looked at your last ACGM, you got embarrassed and blasted by so many that disagree with your opinion.

You're too sensitive.

Maybe you should learn to listen rather than hate.
Dec. 20, 2022 at 5:10 p.m.
#33
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Quoting: GMBL
Not drafting Schneider turned out to be just fine.


Ok.

Thanks for your very well thought out and insightful comment.
Dec. 20, 2022 at 5:22 p.m.
#34
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
I looked at your last ACGM, you got embarrassed and blasted by so many that disagree with your opinion.

You're too sensitive.

Maybe you should learn to listen rather than hate.


This is fantastic because not only did you clearly not read my last agm,you just jumped to the comments ans uses those. I suggest you go read it again.
My goodness youre real bad at this
Dec. 20, 2022 at 5:24 p.m.
#35
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Edited Dec. 20, 2022 at 5:30 p.m.
Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
Ok.

Thanks for your very well thought out and insightful comment.


Lol, no problem.

Since, you want clarification my point is the Leafs' defence is doing well without Schneider. So, let me ask you this do you wish they took Schneider because their's an aspect of his game that you like (guessing it's mostly to do with his size) or are you just a fan of his because he's good?

By no means is Schneider a unique type of player as far as I know, so if it's the former, who are guys that could be targeted in a trade that can do the same thing? Better off wishing for what can be rather than what can no longer be.

If you want him on the Leafs because you are just a big Schneider fan, then there's not much for us to discuss. All you can do is hope he becomes a Leaf one day.
Dec. 20, 2022 at 6:09 p.m.
#36
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Edited Dec. 20, 2022 at 6:16 p.m.
Quoting: JaredOfLondon
This is fantastic because not only did you clearly not read my last agm,you just jumped to the comments ans uses those. I suggest you go read it again.
My goodness youre real bad at this


Now I remembered why you are on so many people's ignore list.

I read your last ACGM description, you added that comment as a defense to stop from getting trolled. An excuse to making a stupid trade.

So if my "trade Nylander" thread had the same "disclaimer" as yours, then you should have no problem with it.

Like I said you're too sensitive. You want to troll other people's opinion but can't accept facts that your own opinions can be false too.
Dec. 20, 2022 at 6:14 p.m.
#37
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
Now I remembered why you are on so many people's ignore list.

I read your last ACGM description, he added that as a defense to stop from getting trolled. An excuse.

Like I said you're too sensitive. You want to troll other people's opinion but can't accept facts that your own opinions can be false too.


My goodness, youre just dancing arnt ya? Look hoss, just because you're mad im on to you doesn't mean you need to go telling stories to make yourself feel better. I get it, you were in such a hurry to own me you didnt read the description, just like the people in the comments, but hey, at least they were ok enough with themselves to admit it
Dont worry, one day youll get there too
Dec. 20, 2022 at 6:25 p.m.
#38
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Edited Dec. 20, 2022 at 6:32 p.m.
Quoting: GMBL
Lol, no problem.

Since, you want clarification my point is the Leafs' defence is doing well without Schneider. So, let me ask you this do you wish they took Schneider because their's an aspect of his game that you like (guessing it's mostly to do with his size) or are you just a fan of his because he's good?

By no means is Schneider a unique type of player as far as I know, so if it's the former, who are guys that could be targeted in a trade that can do the same thing? Better off wishing for what can be rather than what can no longer be.

If you want him on the Leafs because you are just a big Schneider fan, then there's not much for us to discuss. All you can do is hope he becomes a Leaf one day.


I'll throw the question back to you, what makes Amirov a better player selection. Talented winger prospects are dime a dozen, hardly anything special, the 5th best LW'er Drafted can be equal as the 20th Lw'er Drafted. Dman on the other hand, escpecially RH'd ones are truly a diamond in the rough, rare find.

Amirov might have been a 18 year old playing in a men's League, but the majority of scouts still forecast his Nhl development would take 3-5 years after being Drafted. Which turned out to be true.

Schneider, being a western Canadian raised and trained prospect, had a much shorter path to the Nhl. Which turned out to be true.
Dec. 20, 2022 at 6:28 p.m.
#39
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Edited Dec. 20, 2022 at 6:34 p.m.
Quoting: JaredOfLondon
My goodness, youre just dancing arnt ya? Look hoss, just because you're mad im on to you doesn't mean you need to go telling stories to make yourself feel better. I get it, you were in such a hurry to own me you didnt read the description, just like the people in the comments, but hey, at least they were ok enough with themselves to admit it
Dont worry, one day youll get there too


I read the description of your last ACGM. Like I said, you were trying to shield yourself from being trolled for making bad roster moves.

I'm onto you too, BOSS.

You are too afraid to create ACGM and take the heat instead you'd rather jump on others.
Dec. 20, 2022 at 6:51 p.m.
#40
we miss leo k
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I honestly think it's way, way way too soon to be having a discussion like this. Schneider has 76 games to his name at this point, and while he's looked good he's also been *heavily* sheltered - 15 minutes a night, more O-zone than D-zone starts, and a truly outrageous PDO helping him along (106.0!)

Meanwhile, the biggest strength of this Leafs team has been their defense - you've turned Ilya Samsonov and Matt Murray into Jennings trophy candidates on the backs of the guys that were more or less here when Schneider was drafted (Rielly, Holl, Sandin & Liljegren were already in the Leafs org by the 2020 draft and TJ Brodie joined shortly after) so it's not like drafting Schneider would have changed that. The one thing the Leafs do have a need for, however, has been skilled wingers with low cap hits - something that a healthy Amirov could have helped with, and hopefully will be able to in the near future.

I just think it's too early to be looking back at the 2020 draft and saying "he blew it!" - let's get some of these guys off their ELCs before we start calling anyone a bust, ya know?
Dec. 20, 2022 at 6:56 p.m.
#41
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
I'll throw the question back to you, what makes Amirov a better player selection. Talented winger prospects are dime a dozen, hardly anything special, the 5th best LW'er Drafted can be equal as the 20th Lw'er Drafted. Dman on the other hand, escpecially RH'd ones are truly a diamond in the rough, rare find.

Amirov might have been a 18 year old playing in a men's League, but the majority of scouts still forecast his Nhl development would take 3-5 years after being Drafted. Which turned out to be true.

Schneider, being a western Canadian raised and trained prospect, had a much shorter path to the Nhl. Which turned out to be true.


I thought this wasn't about Amirov. There's no way for us to know who is a better selection at this time or who would have been the better selection had Amirov not been inflicted with cancer. Hopefully, he recovers and is able to resume his career but he's going to have lost a lot of time.

The Leafs are in need of a top 6 winger more so than a top 4 D. Sure, at that draft it might have been the other way around but as I said the D-core is fine without Schneider, so it did work out. Sandin and Liljegren are doing well, and they were drafted before Schneider so perhaps there was never a need for him in particular unless your focus is just his size/physicality. Plus, they did draft a RHD in Niemela that draft in the 3rd round, and he looks to be promising at the least if his game can transfer to the NHL.

You weren't satisfied with my original reply and I elaborated to contribute to the discussion. I hope you can return the courtesy by actually answering the questions that I had:

1) Do you wish they took Schneider because their's an aspect of his game that you like (guessing it's mostly to do with his size) or are you just a fan of his because he's good?

2) If it's the former, who are guys that could be targeted in a trade that can do the same thing?
Dec. 20, 2022 at 7:07 p.m.
#42
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Quoting: GMBL
I thought this wasn't about Amirov. There's no way for us to know who is a better selection at this time or who would have been the better selection had Amirov not been inflicted with cancer. Hopefully, he recovers and is able to resume his career but he's going to have lost a lot of time.

The Leafs are in need of a top 6 winger more so than a top 4 D. Sure, at that draft it might have been the other way around but as I said the D-core is fine without Schneider, so it did work out. Sandin and Liljegren are doing well, and they were drafted before Schneider so perhaps there was never a need for him in particular unless your focus is just his size/physicality. Plus, they did draft a RHD in Niemela that draft in the 3rd round, and he looks to be promising at the least if his game can transfer to the NHL.

You weren't satisfied with my original reply and I elaborated to contribute to the discussion. I hope you can return the courtesy by actually answering the questions that I had:

1) Do you wish they took Schneider because their's an aspect of his game that you like (guessing it's mostly to do with his size) or are you just a fan of his because he's good?

2) If it's the former, who are guys that could be targeted in a trade that can do the same thing?


1. Schneider's gameplay and potential impressed me more than Amirov's at the time of the Draft.

2. It'll be cheaper trade value to pick up a top 6 winger as a TDL rental than trading for a Top 4 Rh'd Dman at the TDL.

It has always been cheaper trade value to pick up a middle 6 forward compared to a 17 minute per game Dman.
Dec. 20, 2022 at 7:15 p.m.
#43
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
I read the description of your last ACGM. Like I said, you were trying to shield yourself from being trolled for making bad roster moves.

I'm onto you too, BOSS.

You are too afraid to create ACGM and take the heat instead you'd rather jump on others.


Or, heres a wild idea, i was literally doing what i saif i was doing and playing with the cap to see what kind of team i could fit with some players i like.
But then you cant understand making a post that isn't to sort out anger issues, can you?

And if you dont like heat for your agms, make ones that arnt fueled by what ever insecurities nylander and dubas set off in you
Dec. 20, 2022 at 7:55 p.m.
#44
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
1. Schneider's gameplay and potential impressed me more than Amirov's at the time of the Draft.

2. It'll be cheaper trade value to pick up a top 6 winger as a TDL rental than trading for a Top 4 Rh'd Dman at the TDL.

It has always been cheaper trade value to pick up a middle 6 forward compared to a 17 minute per game Dman.


So essentially, you wish they had/want Schneider in particular. Not much to say about that, it would be nice to have him but at the same time they are fine without.

As for rentals it might be easier to pick up a top 6 F over a top 4 D but they don't really need a top 4 D rental.

In terms of long-term solutions though, getting a top 6 F and being able to fit them in the cap via trade or fa is going to be very difficult. Obviously, trading for a top 4 RD with term is out of the question and even more challenging but perhaps they could acquire a top 4 D and fit them under the cap via FA if one is needed.
Dec. 20, 2022 at 9:02 p.m.
#45
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Quoting: Saskleaf
I remember wanting Schneider but I also remember that Amirov was projected to go in the 15-20 range. Were you just higher on him than most people or am I forgetting something?

It would be awesome if Amirov came back and played in the NHL. I wish him all the best. But before the illness I was starting to think the pick might have been a bit of a reach.


I think I recall Amirov being expected to be in the 12-14 range but that there was a handful of guys that could have gone 11-20. That being said the leafs needs were in fact a good D prospect(RHD) while they were loaded with the “soft skill” forwards. Dubas was stuck in his mindset from a few years back. I’m sure if he had the same circumstances today he would take the D man. Only point I haven’t seen here is.. “but are the leafs good at developing Dmen?” The road for Sandin has been rough and they almost lost him in the summer due to not giving him the proper chances. Lilj has been decent but not exactly a guy that makes you drop your jaw. Who was that guy that landed in VAN who had a decent start to his career and then they just ranked his career? I’m not stating that they are bad, I’m simply throwing out the question that people should consider. Maybe the idea is draft what you know, build its value up and swap with someone who knows D or G..
Saskleaf liked this.
Dec. 20, 2022 at 9:13 p.m.
#46
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Quoting: GMBL
Lol, no problem.

Since, you want clarification my point is the Leafs' defence is doing well without Schneider. So, let me ask you this do you wish they took Schneider because their's an aspect of his game that you like (guessing it's mostly to do with his size) or are you just a fan of his because he's good?

By no means is Schneider a unique type of player as far as I know, so if it's the former, who are guys that could be targeted in a trade that can do the same thing? Better off wishing for what can be rather than what can no longer be.

If you want him on the Leafs because you are just a big Schneider fan, then there's not much for us to discuss. All you can do is hope he becomes a Leaf one day.


So aside from his height/weight/strength.. his 2 way play has been great, he’s been a leader at every other level so it’s likely he will eventually wear a letter. I guess if the leafs already have 6 D man with the perfect mould for the NHL then you’re laughing. However I think the OP is stating that ** With Muzz done it’s allowed Sandin to move to the proper side and left a gap which Schneider would fill better than what you have… OP is correct. But the leafs are doing just fine without him and the hope is Amirov can make his way back to hockey and have an impact
Dec. 20, 2022 at 9:24 p.m.
#47
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Quoting: NYR1983
So aside from his height/weight/strength.. his 2 way play has been great, he’s been a leader at every other level so it’s likely he will eventually wear a letter. I guess if the leafs already have 6 D man with the perfect mould for the NHL then you’re laughing. However I think the OP is stating that ** With Muzz done it’s allowed Sandin to move to the proper side and left a gap which Schneider would fill better than what you have… OP is correct. But the leafs are doing just fine without him and the hope is Amirov can make his way back to hockey and have an impact


On the right side, they have Brodie and Liljegren. So, even going back to the draft, they had Brodie and Holl (even if a lot of Leaf fans don't like him), and they had Liljegren in the system. So they took Amirov who they considered to be better and later they added Niemela, a RD who seems to have top 4 potential. So, there really was no pressing need for Schneider in particular at the time nor now. Going forward, they are going to need another RD but maybe Timmins or Niemela fill that spot, so that's why I said they ended up fine without Schneider.
Dec. 20, 2022 at 9:36 p.m.
#48
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Quoting: GMBL
On the right side, they have Brodie and Liljegren. So, even going back to the draft, they had Brodie and Holl (even if a lot of Leaf fans don't like him), and they had Liljegren in the system. So they took Amirov who they considered to be better and later they added Niemela, a RD who seems to have top 4 potential. So, there really was no pressing need for Schneider in particular at the time nor now.


There’s a big difference between Schneider and Niemela…. But yes there was Holl and Lilj.. both guys I don’t consider legit top 4 guys but also it’s not about the contracts you have for that year, it’s about the future. Now maybe, just maybe Amirov would be on pace for 50+ goals if healthy today. Or 35. And this thread might not be up. But I recall many fans being upset
Dec. 20, 2022 at 9:43 p.m.
#49
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Edited Dec. 20, 2022 at 9:53 p.m.
Quoting: NYR1983
There’s a big difference between Schneider and Niemela…. But yes there was Holl and Lilj.. both guys I don’t consider legit top 4 guys but also it’s not about the contracts you have for that year, it’s about the future. Now maybe, just maybe Amirov would be on pace for 50+ goals if healthy today. Or 35. And this thread might not be up. But I recall many fans being upset


Holl isn't a legit top 4 guy, but they have Brodie who normally plays his off-side, he used to be Giordano's partner in Calgary. So, they have Brodie and Liljegren. Liljegren might not be a legit top 4 D in your opinion but that sure is his potential. He was at one point projected to be a top-5 or top-10 pick in his draft in early projections for a reason. He also fell for a reason too (was due to missing significant time due to mono), but the potential is definitely there. So for the future, they definitely have one legit top 4 option on the right side.

I'm not denying that fans didn't want Schneider. There are a lot of fans who don't like that Dubas drafts/signs small-skill players, but that's a different conversation to as to whether the Leafs still need Schneider or not now. Will they need him in the future? That remains to be seen, but there are other ways of obtaining top 4 D other than drafting, and there are other top 4 D other than Schneider who can bring the same elements in the NHL already and there will be others in the future too.
Dec. 20, 2022 at 9:51 p.m.
#50
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Quoting: GMBL
Holl isn't a legit top 4 guy, but they have Brodie who normally plays his off-side, he used to be Giordano's partner in Calgary. So, they have Brodie and Liljegren. Liljegren might not be a legit top 4 D in your opinion but that sure is his potential. He was at one point projected to be a top-5 or top-10 pick in his draft in early projections for a reason. He also fell for a reason too (was due to missing significant time due to mono), but the potential is definitely there. So for the future, they definitely have one legit top 4 option on the right side.

I'm not denying that fans didn't want Schneider. There are a lot of fans who don't like that Dubas drafts/signs small-skill players, but that's a different conversation to as to whether the Leafs still need Schneider or not now. Will they need him in the future? That remains to be seen, but there are other ways of obtaining top 4 D.


Not one person here he said they “need” Schneider. OP said he wished they drafted him instead. I’m saying he is an upgrade on your blue line. Not needed but would help.
 
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