If You ReBuild It They Will Come

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Stats Are For Losers

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Quoting: kster34

Well tried to argue facts

I know it might be hard to fathom but my opinion of Bertuzzi’s skillset or value has nothing to do with my being a fan of the Detroit Red Wings. I’m not a homer, brother.

Bunting is a poor comparison to Bertuzzi. He’s got one full season under his belt and he’s played with Mitch Marner or similar the entire year. His entire career is a “sample size”, up to this point.

It’s a bad comparison. So, if your question is, if the Detroit Red Wings were exactly the Toronto Maple Leafs, with the exact roster and situation/history, the answer is a resounding yes, I would absolutely take the opportunity to add Bertuzzi to the group.

Honestly, you will see the difference he makes on whichever team acquires him at the deadline. He is an impactful player on the ice and a very admirable locker room guy despite what you may have heard.

Dec. 21, 2022 at 7:09 p.m.

#56

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Quoting: HypotheticalImpossibility

This is sort of what happened to the Wings. Only difference is is a couple cups in the 2000s, a SCF appearance, and several playoff series wins. Otherwise, about the same.

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Dec. 21, 2022 at 7:10 p.m.

#57

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Quoting: Patrickkane

IF all of those guys are indeed moved - Honestly, that is a reasonable argument on how the Wings potentially wouldn’t get a 1st rounder for Bertuzzi - a bad one is saying he isn’t worth that type of return.

Dec. 21, 2022 at 7:15 p.m.

#58

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Quoting: HypotheticalImpossibility

I got the chance this year to watch a majority of the WJC games to get a glimpse at some of the Wings’ prospects. So, I paid close attention to Finland games to get a look at Emil Viro however, Topi Niemala was the player that stood out for me. I really liked what I saw from him and the Hirvonen kid looked pretty good too.

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Dec. 21, 2022 at 7:19 p.m.

#59

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Quoting: IDKtbh

Especially since ROR and Tarasenko only get moved as non rentals, since STL is still vying for playoffs.

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Dec. 21, 2022 at 7:23 p.m.

#60

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Quoting: Patrickkane

Horvat is the only one that for sure moves, and I'm not sure the value. ROR and Tarasenko are still pieces to keep for the STL playoffs, so if they get moved the haul has to be equivalent today. Neither Blues player gets moved unless the team implodes and everything becomes for sale. Otherwise, Bennington aside, this is a cup contender.

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Dec. 21, 2022 at 7:32 p.m.

#61

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Quoting: tonyhzs

Yeah, true. I didn’t realize STL had won games recently after the atrocious start to the season they had.

Dec. 21, 2022 at 7:52 p.m.

#62

Patrickkane

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Quoting: IDKtbh

Another thing I didn't mention is people say this draft is pretty deep and strong no? So less teams might be interested in trading a 1st as well. I never said Bertuzzi isn't worth a 1st, I just have a hard time believing he'll get one under all these circumstances.

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Dec. 21, 2022 at 7:53 p.m.

#63

Patrickkane

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Quoting: tonyhzs

Binnington aside? "Oh if you just ignore we have one of the worst starting goalies we're a cup contender". lol what

Dec. 21, 2022 at 7:55 p.m.

#64

kster34

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Quoting: IDKtbh

Appreciate your input, but you kind of sound like a homer. Granted I haven’t watched bertuzzi closely and Leafs have owned wings past number of years so it may not be fair - but he didn’t impress that much . His career numbers aren’t that great : 0.3 goals & 0.67 points per game. Even last 3 years 0.42 goals & 0.85 points per game are good but not great.
I’m not against adding him but No Chance at that price. Maybe a 2023 2nd (or 2024 1st) + prospect (not Knies and not Niemela). If not, no worries there will be lots of forwards available to TDL.

Dec. 21, 2022 at 7:57 p.m.

#65

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Quoting: IDKtbh

Huh? Hands? Important? Ohhhh, man, you know you’re right. I was confusing hockey with soccer cuz there’s like a goal and a goalie and all that stuff, I forgot that hands are important. Hey, honestly, thanks man. I goofed up big time on that one.

Hey, do you think I could get your valuable perspective on the Frosties from Wendy’s? Cuz it comes with a spoon but, you also get a straw so, is it ice cream or is it a shake or maybe something previously nameless in between, like umm, idk maybe like a frost… ahh, that’s it - its not ice cream or a shake; it’s a Frosty. Thanks again, man wow, you are on a roll today.

So you've got nothing of value to add, just that the injury which required surgery wasn't a major thing? Ok, good luck with that.

Dec. 21, 2022 at 8:02 p.m.

#66

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Quoting: Patrickkane

Binnington aside? "Oh if you just ignore we have one of the worst starting goalies we're a cup contender". lol what

Who can go on a tear if he gets his head back right.

Dec. 21, 2022 at 8:06 p.m.

#67

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Quoting: Byrr

So you've got nothing of value to add, just that the injury which required surgery wasn't a major thing? Ok, good luck with that.

No, you had all the answers. Didn’t you?

All I wanted to make clear is that a broken hand from a blocked shot does not make a player injury prone or diminish his value.

Dec. 21, 2022 at 8:07 p.m.

#68

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Quoting: IDKtbh

No, you had all the answers. Didn’t you?

All I wanted to make clear is that a broken hand from a blocked shot does not make a player injury prone or diminish his value.

Injuries diminish value by adding risk. How is that player going to recover? A riskier asset is a less valuable asset. This is true of just about any injury that makes a player LTIR eligible.

Dec. 21, 2022 at 8:14 p.m.

#69

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Quoting: tonyhzs

Who can go on a tear if he gets his head back right.

Binnington is scary good when his head is right. Take it from a guy who has watched Hasek post Sabres and Mrazek. I know the type. Stl could go on a 10 game streak of points just as easily as a slump. I'd bet on Binnington, and that is based purely on hunch.

Dec. 21, 2022 at 8:19 p.m.

#70

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Quoting: kster34

Thanks. Usually the people that take issue with the high Bertuzzi packages typically will admit to not being super familiar with him and I can appreciate when that happens because you don’t expect people to know other teams players very well. I do appreciate you communicating that tho.

I mean, my trades on here typically demonstrate a return that benefits the Red Wings, because that’s what I would like. More often than not, though, I know when I am being a bit overzealous with a particular return.

I do view this particular package to be on the high side for Bertuzzi but, not by much. Without the 3rd rounder it’s much closer and maybe Detroit adding a 4th, I think that would make it exactly equal. If this draft wasn’t so strong, the return would be appropriate as is.

I am very high on Niemala so, personally I’d take him and a 2nd for Bert, but I think Bert could net a return very close to the one in the initial post.

Dec. 21, 2022 at 8:22 p.m.

#71

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Quoting: Byrr

Injuries diminish value by adding risk. How is that player going to recover? A riskier asset is a less valuable asset. This is true of just about any injury that makes a player LTIR eligible.

They only diminish value by adding risk if there is a strong likelihood of a future occurrence or re-aggravation of the same injury.

This is not the case, sir. I would hope at some point you are able to see that.

Robby Fabbri on the other hand coming back from his 3rd ACL injury, is in fact, injury prone.

Dec. 21, 2022 at 8:28 p.m.

#72

HypotheticalImpossibility

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Quoting: IDKtbh

There is added risk of reduced capability on the ice. A hand injury is especially prone to this. Take Auston Matthews for example. In the 21-22 offseason he had surgery on his hand. He came back and scored drastically fewer goals in the first month, largely attributed to him still recovering from this surgery. When you are trading for 2-3 months of a players service, like Bertuzzi, how he recovers in the short term is of big interest and a big risk ... and with more risk comes less value.

Dec. 21, 2022 at 8:38 p.m.

#73

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Quoting: tonyhzs

This is sort of what happened to the Wings. Only difference is is a couple cups in the 2000s, a SCF appearance, and several playoff series wins. Otherwise, about the same.

Fair point

Dec. 21, 2022 at 8:52 p.m.

#74

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Quoting: Byrr

I’m really impressed with the stubbornness you’re putting on full display here.

One problem, though - Auston Matthews never had surgery on his hand. He had WRIST surgery.

Breaking a bone compared to joint/tendon injuries are night and day.

Are we making any progress here or do you have another attempt left in you to try and push that false narrative?

Dec. 21, 2022 at 8:54 p.m.

#75