Forums/Armchair-GM

Mang gotta go

Created by: oilfire
Team: 2022-23 Calgary Flames
Initial Creation Date: Dec. 24, 2022
Published: Dec. 27, 2022
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
I think we've got to seriously consider moving Mangiapane before his NTC kicks in. He's not cracking the top 6 and we already have too many expensive bottom 6 guys. It would probably be better for him as well, especially on a younger team like Arizona.

Arizona can afford him, will likely see some value in both Mangiapane and Kylington, Rooneys a dump but the 2 1sts should be enough. If not we could even throw in Pelletier, barring injuries, it doesn't look like he'll crack the lineup any time soon.

Chychrun may not be what we need but he's proving to be quite good this year and is good insurance if Hanifin won't resign. He's also one of the best pieces from one of the few teams that can afford to take on Mangiapane. If we have to pay for good players to go out the door, might as well try and get something good in return. Very few teams can afford to take a chance on Mangiapane with his term.

Most would be concerned with Chychruns injury history, but he doesn't need to play 20+ minutes a night here. If things work out Stone should be able to rotate in and do some load management for him and Tanev.

It's not the first time I've tried this, but I see all sorts of trades giving up Dube, Backlund, Vladar etc. Dubes producing more, has better +/-, costs half as much and is fitting in on the top 6. Backlunds awesome in the dot, can fill in as 2C and is the longest standing Flame. Vladars been great, the only reason I could see wanting to move him is to make room for Wolf.

In a few years it's probably going to look like a bad move, but we just can't afford to let him find his game over the next few years.
Free Agent Signings
RESERVE LISTYEARSCAP HIT
3$925,000
Trades
ARI
  1. Kylington, Oliver
  2. Mangiapane, Andrew
  3. Rooney, Kevin
  4. 2023 1st round pick (CGY)
  5. 2024 1st round pick (CGY)
Additional Details:
2024 conditional on whether MTL takes it, get 2025 instead if so.
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2023
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
2024
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
2025
Logo of the FLA
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$82,500,000$78,400,000$0$200,000$4,100,000
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$2,300,000$2,300,000
C, LW, RW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$4,850,000$4,850,000
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$4,250,000$4,250,000
RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$5,900,000$5,900,000
LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$7,000,000$7,000,000
C
NMC
UFA - 7
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$925,000$925,000
RW
RFA - 3
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$762,500$762,500
LW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$5,350,000$5,350,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$750,000$750,000
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$4,900,000$4,900,000
RW, LW
NTC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$750,000$750,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$800,000$800,000 (Performance Bonus$200,000$200K)
RW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$5,250,000$5,250,000
LW, RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$750,000$750,000
RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$4,950,000$4,950,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$4,550,000$4,550,000
RD
UFA - 4
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$6,000,000$6,000,000
G
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$3,750,000$3,750,000
LD/RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$3,250,000$3,250,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$750,000$750,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$4,600,000$4,600,000
LD/RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$750,000$750,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$4,500,000$4,500,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$762,500$762,500
LD
UFA - 2

Embed Code

  • To display this team on another website or blog, add this iFrame to the appropriate page
  • Customize the height attribute in the iFrame code below to fit your website appropriately. Minimum recommended: 400px.

Text-Embed

Click to Highlight
Dec. 27, 2022 at 12:48 a.m.
#1
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jan. 2019
Posts: 2,059
Likes: 841
Would love to have Mangiapane in Buffalo. We don't really have big pieces to sell but could definitely clear cap space for you and give you an asset or two to go shopping with.
oilfire liked this.
Dec. 27, 2022 at 1:16 a.m.
#2
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2022
Posts: 2,571
Likes: 959
How about Edmundson 50% retained and Anderson for that package?
oilfire liked this.
Dec. 27, 2022 at 1:20 a.m.
#3
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2019
Posts: 32,793
Likes: 16,703
This is a ridiculous take, saying he's not cracking the top 6 is just dumb. He's quite clearly top 6 in ice time by well over a minute. Backlund is the "3rd line center" but has the 2nd highest ice time among all forwards on the team.

Mangiapane has been scoring at well under his average shooting percentage over the last 3-4 years he will certainly pick it up and i expect being reunited with his linemates from last year will definitely light a spark
oilfire liked this.
Dec. 27, 2022 at 1:33 a.m.
#4
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2022
Posts: 485
Likes: 173
Quoting: LIRIK
How about Edmundson 50% retained and Anderson for that package?


Sutter would probably like it, it doesn't give me the cap space that I'm trying to make though.
LIRIK liked this.
Dec. 27, 2022 at 2:02 a.m.
#5
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2022
Posts: 485
Likes: 173
Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
This is a ridiculous take, saying he's not cracking the top 6 is just dumb. He's quite clearly top 6 in ice time by well over a minute. Backlund is the "3rd line center" but has the 2nd highest ice time among all forwards on the team.

Mangiapane has been scoring at well under his average shooting percentage over the last 3-4 years he will certainly pick it up and i expect being reunited with his linemates from last year will definitely light a spark


Everybody's good next to Backlund, let's try Rosy or Pelletier or Zary instead. His ice time is from not producing next to Kadri. Not only was he not producing but he's getting scored on as well.

I don't want the most expensive 3rd line in the league when we have other options. I'd like some money kicking around to pay raises to guys who are earning it, rather than sending them out the door so we can afford to give Mangiapane a chance to find his game.

If he gets off the schnide and starts scoring this is a different conversation but right now he's not worth getting locked into with the rest of the contracts we're locked into. He hasn't done anything in the past 5 games, barely done anything in the last 10. Every time he scores I think "great he's gonna get rolling", then he just goes quiet again.

Backlunds ice time is coming from the penalty kill and when he was basically our 1C next to Huby. I'm pretty sure when everything is running smoothly that line plays closer to 12-15 min. Look at Colemans TOI for a better representation.
Dec. 27, 2022 at 2:13 a.m.
#6
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2022
Posts: 485
Likes: 173
Quoting: Chapee44
Would love to have Mangiapane in Buffalo. We don't really have big pieces to sell but could definitely clear cap space for you and give you an asset or two to go shopping with.


He'd probably do well there, nice young team, maybe get a chance next to Tage Lemieux. I like Mangiapane and I want to see him succeed, I'd like him to put himself in a position to get a raise, I'm just not seeing it here at the moment.
Dec. 27, 2022 at 7:05 a.m.
#7
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2017
Posts: 23,202
Likes: 11,441
Quoting: LIRIK
How about Edmundson 50% retained and Anderson for that package?


I wouldn't trade a crisp 5 dollar bill for that package
yycofred liked this.
Dec. 27, 2022 at 7:05 a.m.
#8
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2019
Posts: 32,793
Likes: 16,703
Quoting: oilfire
Everybody's good next to Backlund, let's try Rosy or Pelletier or Zary instead. His ice time is from not producing next to Kadri. Not only was he not producing but he's getting scored on as well.

I don't want the most expensive 3rd line in the league when we have other options. I'd like some money kicking around to pay raises to guys who are earning it, rather than sending them out the door so we can afford to give Mangiapane a chance to find his game.

If he gets off the schnide and starts scoring this is a different conversation but right now he's not worth getting locked into with the rest of the contracts we're locked into. He hasn't done anything in the past 5 games, barely done anything in the last 10. Every time he scores I think "great he's gonna get rolling", then he just goes quiet again.

Backlunds ice time is coming from the penalty kill and when he was basically our 1C next to Huby. I'm pretty sure when everything is running smoothly that line plays closer to 12-15 min. Look at Colemans TOI for a better representation.


This is such a crazy overreaction, the guy had over 30 goals last year and by every statistic has been elite for multiple years. It is very common for players to have a down period after signing a *** deal. Just look at Rasmus Andersson, i wpuld bet you were on the trade Ras bandwagon 2 years ago too
Dec. 27, 2022 at 7:07 a.m.
#9
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2017
Posts: 23,202
Likes: 11,441
Quoting: oilfire
Everybody's good next to Backlund, let's try Rosy or Pelletier or Zary instead. His ice time is from not producing next to Kadri. Not only was he not producing but he's getting scored on as well.

I don't want the most expensive 3rd line in the league when we have other options. I'd like some money kicking around to pay raises to guys who are earning it, rather than sending them out the door so we can afford to give Mangiapane a chance to find his game.

If he gets off the schnide and starts scoring this is a different conversation but right now he's not worth getting locked into with the rest of the contracts we're locked into. He hasn't done anything in the past 5 games, barely done anything in the last 10. Every time he scores I think "great he's gonna get rolling", then he just goes quiet again.

Backlunds ice time is coming from the penalty kill and when he was basically our 1C next to Huby. I'm pretty sure when everything is running smoothly that line plays closer to 12-15 min. Look at Colemans TOI for a better representation.


So you are willing to throw years of good play out the window due to 30 games of bad puck luck? I bet 20 teams call you for him.
Dec. 27, 2022 at 8:21 a.m.
#10
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2022
Posts: 485
Likes: 173
Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
So you are willing to throw years of good play out the window due to 30 games of bad puck luck? I bet 20 teams call you for him.


I'm willing to take drastic measures to try and take advantage of a short window before we potentially lose Lindholm and Hanifin and before Kadri and Huberdeau age out.

He's not likely going to turn things around playing less. If he's going to lose the opportunity to play the top line to Dube and Ruzicka then why not move him?
Chapee44 liked this.
Dec. 27, 2022 at 8:39 a.m.
#11
Go Habs Go
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 9,985
Likes: 3,551
Anyone could have told you his production wasn't sustainable. He doesn't have the shot volume to maintain a 30 goal pace with his expected regression in shooting percentage.
You probably got off lucky with his contract being short on term, but he could still hit 20 goals.
oilfire liked this.
Dec. 27, 2022 at 9:10 a.m.
#12
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2022
Posts: 485
Likes: 173
Edited Dec. 27, 2022 at 9:16 a.m.
Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
This is such a crazy overreaction, the guy had over 30 goals last year and by every statistic has been elite for multiple years. It is very common for players to have a down period after signing a *** deal. Just look at Rasmus Andersson, i wpuld bet you were on the trade Ras bandwagon 2 years ago too


Mangiapane has 581 mins 7 goals and 14 pts
Thats .012 goals a minute and .024 points per minute.

Ruzicka has 321 mins 6g 20pts, .019gpm and .062ppm
Ppm = points per minute, gpm = goals per minute

Ritchie @ 251 mins has 6g 8pts .024gpm .032ppm

Lewis @ 452m has 7g 12p .015gpm .027ppm

Ritchie has one less goal has spent time eating popcorn, and scores way more consistently.

Ruzicka has performed every where we put him, next to Lindholm, Backlund and now continues to produce on the 4th line. Granted I don't think he was doing amazing next to Backlund.

Lewis has a lot more TOI but a lot of that is penalty kill and he still has the same goals and scores more consistently.

Lucic is scoring more consistently on that line, granted he has the addition of Huby and it's a small sample size vs. not great teams.

Yes it's an over reaction, maybe he needs some time with Backlund or maybe he needs to see things from the press box for a couple games. But if he doesn't turn it around soon, how much longer do we give him? We're almost half way through the season, barely in a playoff spot and having difficulty beating the worst teams in the league. I would rather do something drastic than sit here and watch the ship sink.
Dec. 27, 2022 at 9:16 a.m.
#13
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2022
Posts: 485
Likes: 173
Quoting: ricochetii
Anyone could have told you his production wasn't sustainable. He doesn't have the shot volume to maintain a 30 goal pace with his expected regression in shooting percentage.
You probably got off lucky with his contract being short on term, but he could still hit 20 goals.


He plays really well, I'm sure if you dig into his advanced stats it probably tells a good story. He's getting bad puck luck, not working next to Kadri, not getting a chance next to Lindholm. I think he'll turn it around but I would rather see him succeed somewhere else than continue to flounder here.
Dec. 27, 2022 at 11:36 a.m.
#14
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2021
Posts: 1,674
Likes: 739
The Mangiapane contract was ideal at longer term less than 5M per year, his agent did a great job of getting him high dollar and walk to free agency. He probably scored 30 again in his career but I don't think it's during this 2 year deal. Doesn't mean he isn't effective but it's a lot of money for a really really good middle six and good top 6 guy.
oilfire liked this.
Dec. 27, 2022 at 1:46 p.m.
#15
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jan. 2019
Posts: 2,059
Likes: 841
Quoting: oilfire
I'm willing to take drastic measures to try and take advantage of a short window before we potentially lose Lindholm and Hanifin and before Kadri and Huberdeau age out.

He's not likely going to turn things around playing less. If he's going to lose the opportunity to play the top line to Dube and Ruzicka then why not move him?


This is a fine stance to take. I wish more GMs were aggressive enough to do it. The only danger is make sure you get value back at the same time.
oilfire liked this.
Dec. 27, 2022 at 3:57 p.m.
#16
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2019
Posts: 32,793
Likes: 16,703
Quoting: oilfire
Mangiapane has 581 mins 7 goals and 14 pts
Thats .012 goals a minute and .024 points per minute.

Ruzicka has 321 mins 6g 20pts, .019gpm and .062ppm
Ppm = points per minute, gpm = goals per minute

Ritchie 251 mins has 6g 8pts .024gpm .032ppm

Lewis 452m has 7g 12p .015gpm .027ppm

Ritchie has one less goal has spent time eating popcorn, and scores way more consistently.

Ruzicka has performed every where we put him, next to Lindholm, Backlund and now continues to produce on the 4th line. Granted I don't think he was doing amazing next to Backlund.

Lewis has a lot more TOI but a lot of that is penalty kill and he still has the same goals and scores more consistently.

Lucic is scoring more consistently on that line, granted he has the addition of Huby and it's a small sample size vs. not great teams.

Yes it's an over reaction, maybe he needs some time with Backlund or maybe he needs to see things from the press box for a couple games. But if he doesn't turn it around soon, how much longer do we give him? We're almost half way through the season, barely in a playoff spot and having difficulty beating the worst teams in the league. I would rather do something drastic than sit here and watch the ship sink.


Anyone can look up points like that, thats why I literally he was scoring at well under his regular shooting percentage. He would have ~12 goals by now with his average S%

If you think the answer is to bench him a game sure, but selling him at 1/8th his actual value is moronic
Dec. 27, 2022 at 4:13 p.m.
#17
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2022
Posts: 485
Likes: 173
Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Anyone can look up points like that, thats why I literally he was scoring at well under his regular shooting percentage. He would have ~12 goals by now with his average S%

If you think the answer is to bench him a game sure, but selling him at 1/8th his actual value is moronic


Keeping him until he's worth nothing ain't that smart either.
Dec. 27, 2022 at 4:50 p.m.
#18
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2022
Posts: 485
Likes: 173
Quoting: yycofred
The Mangiapane contract was ideal at longer term less than 5M per year, his agent did a great job of getting him high dollar and walk to free agency. He probably scored 30 again in his career but I don't think it's during this 2 year deal. Doesn't mean he isn't effective but it's a lot of money for a really really good middle six and good top 6 guy.


I have no problem with him maxing out his contract. In this hard cap it's difficult for players to get what they're worth and hockey players are ridiculously under paid compared to other sports.

On the flip side, teams just can't afford to keep guys that are under performing, if we had more money or didn't have such high aspirations for the next couple years, this would be a non issue.
Dec. 27, 2022 at 4:57 p.m.
#19
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2019
Posts: 32,793
Likes: 16,703
Quoting: oilfire
Keeping him until he's worth nothing ain't that smart either.


if you truly believe he is going to get worse then I have nothing left to say to you. Players don't just suddenly forget how to play hockey in the start of their prime
Dec. 27, 2022 at 5:34 p.m.
#20
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2022
Posts: 485
Likes: 173
Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
if you truly believe he is going to get worse then I have nothing left to say to you. Players don't just suddenly forget how to play hockey in the start of their prime


I don't see him getting better playing less, maybe he just needs a few games with Backlund and then he could potentially earn Dubes spot and get back on track. But, if he's not going to get the best chances to succeed here, let him get the opportunity elsewhere.

I thought he deserved Toffolis spot at the beginning of the season and when the lines were going through the blender, I didn't understand why he didn't get Rosys spot next to Lindholm. I guess it's because out the gate, that Dube, Kadri, Mang line was the best we had, but it's always been pretty bad defensively.

Coming into the season I loved that we had real depth players as opposed to whatever you can get from the bargain bin. But now it's starting to feel like we have nothing but good middle six guys. That's an over exaggeration, Lindholm, Kadri, Toffoli, Ruzicka and now Dube are all looking decent but overall it's not quite good enough. Based on that who comes out to make room for Phillips, Pelletier, Coronato or Zary?

My point about Rosys, Ritchies and Lewis production is that they've all earned more minutes but we've just been riding Mangiapane. I do understand that they likely don't produce at the same rate against tougher match ups but they've earned the shot.
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Submit Poll