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Since everyone thinks CAR needs a 2C

Created by: Caniac2000
Team: 2022-23 Carolina Hurricanes
Initial Creation Date: Jan. 10, 2023
Published: Jan. 10, 2023
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
The issue you have if Carolina picks up another C is who comes out of the lineup. None of the 3 guys below ROR can play on the wing, so you're taking one out. Are you sacrificing your captain? The most promising center on the roster in Kotkaniemi? or the best analytical center on the roster that has really stepped up since Aho started sleep walking in Stastny? It doesn't make sense to pick up a 2C anyway, but ROR is a much better fit than Horvat anyway and WILL NOT COST SCOTT MORROW! Can we now stop with the lazy and illinformed takes of "Carolina needs a 2C". No they do not, they need another depth winger, and a 3RD because neither of Coghlan or Chatfield are covering themselves in glory
Trades
1.
CAR
  1. O'Reilly, Ryan ($3,750,000 retained)
STL
  1. Fensore, Domenick [Reserve List]
  2. Suzuki, Ryan
  3. 2023 3rd round pick (PHI)
  4. 2024 2nd round pick (PHI)
2.
CAR
  1. 2023 3rd round pick (EDM)
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2023
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CHI
Logo of the CAR
2024
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CAR
2025
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CAR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$82,500,000$76,334,417$112,500$1,082,500$6,165,583
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$7,750,000$7,750,000
LW, RW
UFA - 7
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$8,460,250$8,460,250
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$5,400,000$5,400,000
LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$7,000,000$7,000,000
LW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
-$1,875,000-$1,875,000
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$3,000,000$3,000,000
RW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$1,800,000$1,800,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$4,820,000$4,820,000
C
UFA - 8
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$2,000,000$2,000,000
RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$762,500$762,500
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$1,500,000$1,500,000 (Performance Bonus$500,000$500K)
C, LW
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$500,000$500K)
RW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$6,000,000$6,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$5,300,000$5,300,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$5,280,000$5,280,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$4,500,000$4,500,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$5,250,000$5,250,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$4,025,000$4,025,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$850,000$850,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$762,500$762,500
RD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$842,500$842,500 (Performance Bonus$82,500$82K)
G
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$1,500,000$1,500,000
RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$4,050,000$4,050,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 1

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Jan. 10, 2023 at 8:13 a.m.
#1
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I would sit kotkaniemi before Staal or move him to the wing. He'd be a decent 4LW
Jan. 10, 2023 at 8:15 a.m.
#2
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We aren’t trading a goalie. Our only chances at ROR are double retention or Kase never makes it back
Jan. 10, 2023 at 8:17 a.m.
#3
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Quoting: ecupirate07
We aren’t trading a goalie. Our only chances at ROR are double retention or Kase never makes it back


Kase's already back on the ice so that's not happening. They say they're "not trading a goalie" but Sawchenko does have a decent NHL stat line for a rookie on an awful SJS team. There are worse ways to do this. Carrying 3 goalies is never the smart thing to do
Jan. 10, 2023 at 9:16 a.m.
#4
Jetsfan
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Stas is a great winger
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Jan. 10, 2023 at 9:44 a.m.
#5
mokumboi
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Okay well, need or not, they are not getting O'Reilly for that bag of misfit toys. Good grief.
Jan. 10, 2023 at 9:49 a.m.
#6
Hurricane Waddell
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Probably, but they only tried him at LW on a checking line with Staal and Fast at the beginning of the season. They then made the choice that he obviously couldn’t do it. Think a ‘fourth line’ of Stastny KK and Noesen would do some damage against favorable match ups. Stastny could take the faceoffs and allow KK to patrol the middle of the ice defensively.

Quoting: Jetman
Stas is a great winger
Jan. 10, 2023 at 9:49 a.m.
#7
Habs4Ever
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I hope they trade Scott Morrow lmao
Jan. 10, 2023 at 9:59 a.m.
#8
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Ror on the canes would make a lot of sense IMO. that and an 3rd pair defencemen like you said. but canes rarely go for rentals umfortunaly, this is the time i wish they would.
Jan. 10, 2023 at 10:06 a.m.
#9
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Quoting: Jetman
Stas is a great winger


When he was on the LW at the start of the year, he was AWFUL. Since moving to the middle, he's been much better, making his line top 5 in the NHL in xG%. He's so much better down the middle.
Jan. 10, 2023 at 10:08 a.m.
#10
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Quoting: mokumboi
Okay well, need or not, they are not getting O'Reilly for that bag of misfit toys. Good grief.


"misfit toys"

It's not fantastic value and it's way less than I would have offered at the beginning of the season. However, ROR is out for the next 3 weeks still minimum. He's not having a great season to begin with. A former 1st round pick (admittedly, one who has struggled greatly with health problems), a 2nd that is basically a late 1st, and a 3rd that is basically a late 2nd doesn't seem awful to me like you suggest.
Jan. 10, 2023 at 10:18 a.m.
#11
mokumboi
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Quoting: Caniac2000
"misfit toys"

It's not fantastic value and it's way less than I would have offered at the beginning of the season. However, ROR is out for the next 3 weeks still minimum. He's not having a great season to begin with. A former 1st round pick (admittedly, one who has struggled greatly with health problems), a 2nd that is basically a late 1st, and a 3rd that is basically a late 2nd doesn't seem awful to me like you suggest.


Nah, it's brutal. The 2nd is in 24, Suzuki can barely stay in one piece and hasn't progressed when he does so the fact that he was taken 28th OA 3 1/2 years ago means exactly nothing and Fensore is one of the smallest midget Dmen in history. And as always, retention ain't free... funny how folks constantly gloss over that part. This is the type of offer that makes sure Carolina calls don;t get answered in the future.
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Jan. 10, 2023 at 10:26 a.m.
#12
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Quoting: mokumboi
Nah, it's brutal. The 2nd is in 24, Suzuki can barely stay in one piece and hasn't progressed when he does so the fact that he was taken 28th OA 3 1/2 years ago means exactly nothing and Fensore is one of the smallest midget Dmen in history. And as always, retention ain't free... funny how folks constantly gloss over that part. This is the type of offer that makes sure Carolina calls don;t get answered in the future.


Retention this year is built into the price. That's something that needs to be understood. Good teams do not have the space to take on contracts at full value. That's something that was talked about during 32 Thoughts, prices this year are likely going to start at 50% retained and come down with however much is left. There are so many sellers this year and its a weird situation under the flat cap. Funny how you are trying to ignore that in the current grand scheme of things.

You say Fensore is a midget. Okay and? He's still proven to be a fantastic defenseman. He's got good upside. Your entire argument is he's undersized.

Suzuki's shown development when he's played. He's proven when he plays he can dominate at almost any level he's seen to this point. While his value isn't super high, it's not 0.

The 2nd is next year, but it's also a high 2nd because lets face it, it's Philly.

Not to mention, ROR is still hurt. ROR is still having a bad year. ROR is still currently not able to play hockey. ROR still has no set timeline to return. Asking for much more than this is how you walk valuable assets to free agency and then get nothing. As I said in the description, Canes don't need ROR. Right now, no one needs ROR. Saying "his is the type of offer that makes sure Carolina calls don;t get answered in the future" is absolutely lucocrist. You think this is so far of for a ROR that has shown major signs of regression, is on the wrong side of 30 as a rental, currently injured, has shown regression in his defensive game, and you want how much more here? This is why no one has tried to take Tarasenko out of St Louis despite him openly wanting out. Blues need to learn that their assets won't be the only ones out there. ROR is like center number 3 among teams that may want one. You want how much more? LMAO
Jan. 10, 2023 at 10:44 a.m.
#13
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Quoting: Caniac2000
Retention this year is built into the price. That's something that needs to be understood. Good teams do not have the space to take on contracts at full value. That's something that was talked about during 32 Thoughts, prices this year are likely going to start at 50% retained and come down with however much is left. There are so many sellers this year and its a weird situation under the flat cap. Funny how you are trying to ignore that in the current grand scheme of things.

You say Fensore is a midget. Okay and? He's still proven to be a fantastic defenseman. He's got good upside. Your entire argument is he's undersized.

Suzuki's shown development when he's played. He's proven when he plays he can dominate at almost any level he's seen to this point. While his value isn't super high, it's not 0.

The 2nd is next year, but it's also a high 2nd because lets face it, it's Philly.

Not to mention, ROR is still hurt. ROR is still having a bad year. ROR is still currently not able to play hockey. ROR still has no set timeline to return. Asking for much more than this is how you walk valuable assets to free agency and then get nothing. As I said in the description, Canes don't need ROR. Right now, no one needs ROR. Saying "his is the type of offer that makes sure Carolina calls don;t get answered in the future" is absolutely lucocrist. You think this is so far of for a ROR that has shown major signs of regression, is on the wrong side of 30 as a rental, currently injured, has shown regression in his defensive game, and you want how much more here? This is why no one has tried to take Tarasenko out of St Louis despite him openly wanting out. Blues need to learn that their assets won't be the only ones out there. ROR is like center number 3 among teams that may want one. You want how much more? LMAO


There's a fine line between walking him to free agency verse taking a less than ideal return in regards to which is more palatable. I agree with Mok this offer is not appealing. I would much rather them extensively look at what an extension would cost as opposed to taking this package. This is a return I would expect to be for Barbashev vs. ROR.

Also the 2nd half of the post is a tad confusing. Are you trying to suggest that the valuation and collective thoughts of a few fans that you have had an interaction with on CapFriendly outline why the Blues haven't traded Tarasenko yet? That is an extremely absurd comment. Tarasenko hasn't been traded because prior to 2 months ago the Blues have been all in trying to compete. Trading a guy who is a PPG player doesn't seem to fit that mould now does it? I'm not sure what's more irrelevant in terms of adding to a discussion. Suggesting that the Blues are unable to trade Tarasenko because they value him too highly, or trying to suggest that every commenters valuation is the exact science that the Blues Front Office uses when trying to see if a move makes sense for them.

Well done.
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Jan. 10, 2023 at 10:50 a.m.
#14
mokumboi
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Quoting: Caniac2000
Retention this year is built into the price. That's something that needs to be understood. Good teams do not have the space to take on contracts at full value. That's something that was talked about during 32 Thoughts, prices this year are likely going to start at 50% retained and come down with however much is left. There are so many sellers this year and its a weird situation under the flat cap. Funny how you are trying to ignore that in the current grand scheme of things.

You say Fensore is a midget. Okay and? He's still proven to be a fantastic defenseman. He's got good upside. Your entire argument is he's undersized.

Suzuki's shown development when he's played. He's proven when he plays he can dominate at almost any level he's seen to this point. While his value isn't super high, it's not 0.

The 2nd is next year, but it's also a high 2nd because lets face it, it's Philly.

Not to mention, ROR is still hurt. ROR is still having a bad year. ROR is still currently not able to play hockey. ROR still has no set timeline to return. Asking for much more than this is how you walk valuable assets to free agency and then get nothing. As I said in the description, Canes don't need ROR. Right now, no one needs ROR. Saying "his is the type of offer that makes sure Carolina calls don;t get answered in the future" is absolutely lucocrist. You think this is so far of for a ROR that has shown major signs of regression, is on the wrong side of 30 as a rental, currently injured, has shown regression in his defensive game, and you want how much more here? This is why no one has tried to take Tarasenko out of St Louis despite him openly wanting out. Blues need to learn that their assets won't be the only ones out there. ROR is like center number 3 among teams that may want one. You want how much more? LMAO


Wow. So my laughing post had to be removed, huh? Amazing. Obviously, this is all ludicrously slanted (if not straight up delusional), and the offer obviously remains pie in the sky. Duh.
Jan. 10, 2023 at 10:52 a.m.
#15
mokumboi
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Quoting: AC14
There's a fine line between walking him to free agency verse taking a less than ideal return in regards to which is more palatable. I agree with Mok this offer is not appealing. I would much rather them extensively look at what an extension would cost as opposed to taking this package. This is a return I would expect to be for Barbashev vs. ROR.

Also the 2nd half of the post is a tad confusing. Are you trying to suggest that the valuation and collective thoughts of a few fans that you have had an interaction with on CapFriendly outline why the Blues haven't traded Tarasenko yet? That is an extremely absurd comment. Tarasenko hasn't been traded because prior to 2 months ago the Blues have been all in trying to compete. Trading a guy who is a PPG player doesn't seem to fit that mould now does it? I'm not sure what's more irrelevant in terms of adding to a discussion. Suggesting that the Blues are unable to trade Tarasenko because they value him too highly, or trying to suggest that every commenters valuation is the exact science that the Blues Front Office uses when trying to see if a move makes sense for them.

Well done.


Re Vova: That's all not to mention that he reportedly told the team a while back that he wants to stay in STL. But silly things like facts and reality don't matter here too often.
Jan. 10, 2023 at 10:55 a.m.
#16
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Quoting: AC14
There's a fine line between walking him to free agency verse taking a less than ideal return in regards to which is more palatable. I agree with Mok this offer is not appealing. I would much rather them extensively look at what an extension would cost as opposed to taking this package. This is a return I would expect to be for Barbashev vs. ROR.

Also the 2nd half of the post is a tad confusing. Are you trying to suggest that the valuation and collective thoughts of a few fans that you have had an interaction with on CapFriendly outline why the Blues haven't traded Tarasenko yet? That is an extremely absurd comment. Tarasenko hasn't been traded because prior to 2 months ago the Blues have been all in trying to compete. Trading a guy who is a PPG player doesn't seem to fit that mould now does it? I'm not sure what's more irrelevant in terms of adding to a discussion. Suggesting that the Blues are unable to trade Tarasenko because they value him too highly, or trying to suggest that every commenters valuation is the exact science that the Blues Front Office uses when trying to see if a move makes sense for them.

Well done.


Again, ROR right now is in the midst of a down year, he's on the wrong side of 30, he's also out for at least another 3 weeks and thats before just being re-evaluated. You think he's returning more than this? The list of teams that will be looking for a center is not going to be as large as the list of available centers. Toews and Horvat are likely to be ahead of ROR as a target anyway. With teams like Anaheim potentially moving Henrique, Chicago with Domi... all these guys that are either going to be better value (Domi, Henrique) or are just better players (Horvat). I'm genuinely not sure ROR would justify bringing back much more.

As for the Senko point, trying to say that the reason they haven't moved Senko is that they were trying to complete is a lie and you know it. There were rumors about the Islanders offering Wahlstrom, teams like Carolina were interested, New Jersey. All it would have taken then is to use the assets you got for Tarasenko and then turn to Calgary in the most recent summer and pick up Matt Tkachuk, and you've greatly improved. The senko issue proves my entire point. Blues fans in particular overvalue their players insanely on here. Not Toronto levels where Kerfoot returns Bedard, but a player that has regressed massively and is currently out injured and with no timeline is worth more than basically a late 1st in 2024, a late 2nd in 2023, a good prospect that has also had health issues in Suzuki, and one of the stronger defensive prospects in the Canes system with Fensore. That's ridiculous.
Jan. 10, 2023 at 10:56 a.m.
#17
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Quoting: mokumboi
Wow. So my laughing post had to be removed, huh? Amazing. Obviously, this is all ludicrously slanted (if not straight up delusional), and the offer obviously remains pie in the sky. Duh.


Have a good day buddy, you've proven your delusion. I'm done with you here!
Jan. 10, 2023 at 11:05 a.m.
#18
mokumboi
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Quoting: Caniac2000
Have a good day buddy, you've proven your delusion. I'm done with you here!


Says the guy who just doesn't understand what the issue could possibly be with a 5'7" 150-pound Dman and who imagines that Fensore is one of the best D prospects in the Carolina organization, one that has Nikitin, Morrow, Heimosalmi, Forsmark, Honka and Seeley. Dude, the Canes have 20+ better prospects in their system. He's worth nothing. But I'm not telling you anything you don;t know, am I? Yeah, you can run along and pretend peddle your snake oil elsewhere. Best of luck with that.
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Jan. 10, 2023 at 11:08 a.m.
#19
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Quoting: mokumboi
Wow. So my laughing post had to be removed, huh? Amazing. Obviously, this is all ludicrously slanted (if not straight up delusional), and the offer obviously remains pie in the sky. Duh.

If you disagree with him he will report you, he’s done it to me too. Its what he does. Just put him on mute like me and enjoy a less stressful ACGM time.
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Jan. 10, 2023 at 11:14 a.m.
#20
mokumboi
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Quoting: ecupirate07
If you disagree with him he will report you, he’s done it to me too. Its what he does. Just put him on mute like me and enjoy a less stressful ACGM time.


Yeah, that doesn't bother me. I just think it's funny. He says you don;t need a 2C, we all know the Canes don't spend big assets on rentals and he's pumping up AHL players while acting like ROR is used junk. OMG he had an injury once! It's the pretending that bugs me.
Jan. 10, 2023 at 11:20 a.m.
#21
Jetsfan
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Quoting: Caniac2000
When he was on the LW at the start of the year, he was AWFUL. Since moving to the middle, he's been much better, making his line top 5 in the NHL in xG%. He's so much better down the middle.


ok, he was great for us on the wing.
Jan. 10, 2023 at 12:11 p.m.
#22
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Quoting: Caniac2000
Again, ROR right now is in the midst of a down year, he's on the wrong side of 30, he's also out for at least another 3 weeks and thats before just being re-evaluated. You think he's returning more than this? The list of teams that will be looking for a center is not going to be as large as the list of available centers. Toews and Horvat are likely to be ahead of ROR as a target anyway. With teams like Anaheim potentially moving Henrique, Chicago with Domi... all these guys that are either going to be better value (Domi, Henrique) or are just better players (Horvat). I'm genuinely not sure ROR would justify bringing back much more.

As for the Senko point, trying to say that the reason they haven't moved Senko is that they were trying to complete is a lie and you know it. There were rumors about the Islanders offering Wahlstrom, teams like Carolina were interested, New Jersey. All it would have taken then is to use the assets you got for Tarasenko and then turn to Calgary in the most recent summer and pick up Matt Tkachuk, and you've greatly improved. The senko issue proves my entire point. Blues fans in particular overvalue their players insanely on here. Not Toronto levels where Kerfoot returns Bedard, but a player that has regressed massively and is currently out injured and with no timeline is worth more than basically a late 1st in 2024, a late 2nd in 2023, a good prospect that has also had health issues in Suzuki, and one of the stronger defensive prospects in the Canes system with Fensore. That's ridiculous.


Here's the issue. The most "Valuable" asset in our eyes in the package that you had thrown together is the Philly 2nd in 24. There's a good chance that pick is anywhere from 35-40. But there's also an off chance that its a pick that is between 55-64. That's a pretty large discrepancy. So no it's not Basically a late 1st in 2024, its a 2nd with a high chance to be in the 30s. There is a general air of caution for Blues fans in regards to undersized players, which probably rightfully so. The Blues have never really been receptive to undersized defensemen until Krug. And I think it's pretty clear how well at least from a fan perspective that that is going 5v5.

I dont think that the conglomeration of assets that you've thrown together is necessarily a bad group of assets for an NHL team. But I think you need to realize in terms of appeal to a fan, none of those assets make you feel okay with trading off your captain and a guy who is coming off a dominant playoff stretch last season and a conn smythe + Selke in 19.
Jan. 10, 2023 at 12:30 p.m.
#23
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Quoting: Jetman
ok, he was great for us on the wing.


Okay, but he wasn't when he was put on the wing here.
Jan. 10, 2023 at 12:35 p.m.
#24
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Yeah I really don't see the Blues parting with O'Reilly for less than a 1st (not necessarily 23 first I don't think) and a decent prospect (not necessarily Scott Morrow level but like...Jack Drury level maybe?). And I think, even with all his struggles this year and his current injury, which are absolutely valid reasons to be skeptical, a team will meet that price. We've seen leadership-y defensive vets go for a lot even if the statistical profile isn't there, and while there's no official timetable the Blues expect O'Reilly to be back before the deadline.

And if no one does, I think the Blues could re-sign him. I don't think they should do that, but I think it's a decent possibility. While the Blues have all these other long term contracts locked in, they're probably going to try and compete beyond this season, so they need assets that are pretty NHL translatable in return for these rentals (ie, high-ish picks they can flip, prospects who are close to NHL level) or there's a good chance they see the rentals (or at least O'Reilly/Barbashev) as part of the solution instead and re-sign them.
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Jan. 10, 2023 at 12:35 p.m.
#25
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Quoting: AC14
Here's the issue. The most "Valuable" asset in our eyes in the package that you had thrown together is the Philly 2nd in 24. There's a good chance that pick is anywhere from 35-40. But there's also an off chance that its a pick that is between 55-64. That's a pretty large discrepancy. So no it's not Basically a late 1st in 2024, its a 2nd with a high chance to be in the 30s. There is a general air of caution for Blues fans in regards to undersized players, which probably rightfully so. The Blues have never really been receptive to undersized defensemen until Krug. And I think it's pretty clear how well at least from a fan perspective that that is going 5v5.

I dont think that the conglomeration of assets that you've thrown together is necessarily a bad group of assets for an NHL team. But I think you need to realize in terms of appeal to a fan, none of those assets make you feel okay with trading off your captain and a guy who is coming off a dominant playoff stretch last season and a conn smythe + Selke in 19.


I get that, but this isn't 2019. Brent Burns won the Norris in 2017 and was acquired for a lot less. He also has more term and has been a better player at probably the one position on the ice equal in value to centers. Looking at last year for example, Florida has up a future 1st and a good but not special prospect in Tippett for Giroux. Giroux had also been healthy and was having a good year. The 2nd is only 5-8 places off where the 1st ended up and it could be lower. Philly do not look like they will ever be good. Suzuki isn't the quality of Tippett, fair enough. However, Fensore and the 3rd aren't throw away items here either. Then you look at ROR's decline, Giroux's higher cap hit, ROR's injury...
 
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