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IDK what a lateral move is

Created by: jnowariak
Team: 2022-23 Minnesota Wild
Initial Creation Date: Jan. 15, 2023
Published: Jan. 15, 2023
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Russo keeps saying they would move Dumba in a “lateral” move. I’m not sure if that means another Top 4 defenseman or just a guy they can play in the NHL, because that’s a big difference. There’s no move that ships Dumba out that makes this team better this year. For the record, I think this team is a 1st round exit with or without Dumba.

I do get the vibe that BG wants to move Dumba to get Goose more opportunity, which is probably worth it if only to keep him in shape for next year.
Trades
MIN
  1. Broberg, Philip
  2. 2023 2nd round pick (EDM)
Additional Details:
Is this enough to make BG think about it? Unlikely a 1st comes back and Broberg can play a similar role to Dumba, albeit in more sheltered minutes.
EDM
  1. Dumba, Matt ($3,000,000 retained)
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2023
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$82,500,000$75,920,254$0$1,532,500$6,579,746
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C
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G
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LD/RD
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Jan. 15, 2023 at 12:56 p.m.
#1
tasieboy
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Oilers would only trade Broberg for a very good LD not a meh RD. Holland refused to add him to Chychrun trade talks plus Broberg has gotten better every game.
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Jan. 15, 2023 at 1:03 p.m.
#2
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Quoting: tasieboy
Oilers would only trade Broberg for a very good LD not a meh RD. Holland refused to add him to Chychrun trade talks plus Broberg has gotten better every game.


I’ll be honest and say I’m not sure what the pecking order is in EDM. I know Holland has talked to MN about Dumba per our best reporter so there’s interest, but the Wild apparently want a D man to come back in a Dumba deal. But if Broberg isn’t available for Chychrun, I’m not sure why EDM even thinks they can play in the trade market.
Jan. 15, 2023 at 1:25 p.m.
#3
MisstheWhalers
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Who's Goose?
Jan. 15, 2023 at 1:26 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: MisstheWhalers
Who's Goose?


Goligoski.
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Jan. 15, 2023 at 1:50 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: jnowariak
I’ll be honest and say I’m not sure what the pecking order is in EDM. I know Holland has talked to MN about Dumba per our best reporter so there’s interest, but the Wild apparently want a D man to come back in a Dumba deal. But if Broberg isn’t available for Chychrun, I’m not sure why EDM even thinks they can play in the trade market.

Presumably because plenty of teams improve their rosters without trading their top prospects hushed

Holland likely talked to MIN about Dumba the same way every GM "talks" about every player: gauging cost to gain further insight into the market. The problems with your proposal are:

1.) the last thing EDM needs is another defenisvely-suspect RD
2.) EDM can't afford to bring in a 6mil cap hit and
3.) Dumba is closer to being worth the 2nd alone than he is to being worth both the 2nd and Broberg
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Jan. 15, 2023 at 1:57 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: SupremeBone
Presumably because plenty of teams improve their rosters without trading their top prospects hushed

Holland likely talked to MIN about Dumba the same way every GM "talks" about every player: gauging cost to gain further insight into the market. The problems with your proposal are:

1.) the last thing EDM needs is another defenisvely-suspect RD
2.) EDM can't afford to bring in a 6mil cap hit and
3.) Dumba is closer to being worth the 2nd alone than he is to being worth both the 2nd and Broberg


My point wasn’t why won’t they trade Broberg, it’s why won’t they trade the assets it would take to add an impact player for the rest of 97 and 29 time in EDM? I’m sure Broberg will be a great d man someday, but Chychrun is what they hope he could become. None of the prospects in the EDM system are good enough to be considered “untouchable” nor should they be given where the team is at.

I don’t think Holland is serious about improving the Oilers.
Jan. 15, 2023 at 2:26 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: jnowariak
My point wasn’t why won’t they trade Broberg, it’s why won’t they trade the assets it would take to add an impact player for the rest of 97 and 29 time in EDM? I’m sure Broberg will be a great d man someday, but Chychrun is what they hope he could become. None of the prospects in the EDM system are good enough to be considered “untouchable” nor should they be given where the team is at.

I don’t think Holland is serious about improving the Oilers.

I get your point, but I think they can meet the needs of the current team without sacrificing the future for a player that's neither a top-notch shutdown D or a D #1 to pair with Nurse. What they need is a reliable shutdown defender that can anchor a 2nd pairing and, in my experience, that kind of player is available quite regularly at a much lower cost. Still might take a 1st+, but that would be fine for the right player.
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Jan. 15, 2023 at 2:34 p.m.
#8
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Quoting: SupremeBone
I get your point, but I think they can meet the needs of the current team without sacrificing the future for a player that's neither a top-notch shutdown D or a D #1 to pair with Nurse. What they need is a reliable shutdown defender that can anchor a 2nd pairing and, in my experience, that kind of player is available quite regularly at a much lower cost. Still might take a 1st+, but that would be fine for the right player.


So I think the comment about filling the need at D with a 1st is reasonable. Whether or not their need is a “shutdown D,” I’m less sure of. I’ve heard some analysis that suggests a mobile two-way puck mover on the right side is what they need given how their offense runs. Dumba fits that bill to a T. But yeah, all depends on what way they want to go.

But I also put this out there for Wild fans to discuss what our beat writer meant as a lateral move. I don’t think a 1st is on the table for Dumba and Broberg and a 2nd is the most reasonable return I think makes sense. There’s a weird tension between keeping him and trading him.
Jan. 15, 2023 at 5:18 p.m.
#9
Osiecki death stare
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Quoting: SupremeBone

1.) the last thing EDM needs is another defenisvely-suspect RD

Can people stop saying this about Dumba? It's extremely uneducated. Maybe like 5 years ago it was true.
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Jan. 15, 2023 at 5:41 p.m.
#10
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The GM makes lots of lateral trades: Staal/MarJo, Pateryn/Cole, Sturm/Jost, Kahk/Middletom, Talbot/Gus, and even Kunin/Bonino was a somewhat lateral trade. It means he's not going to trade Dumba for futures (Zucker or Fiala trades), but wants a someone that replaces Dumba (to an extent) in the lineup coming back. The TOR trades on here with Dumba/Holl is decent example.

In theory, an EDM/MN trade would probably end up something around a Barrie/Dumba swap, but it doesn't work MN's cap and makes all their RD small. Greenway or Foligno for Poolparty or Yamamoto would be another example of lateral swap. Add in a pick where needed to even out the trade and make it fair.

I don't see MN and EDM being good trade partners. EDM calling about Dumba just seems like a GM doing his due diligence.
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Jan. 15, 2023 at 6:23 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: wabit
The GM makes lots of lateral trades: Staal/MarJo, Pateryn/Cole, Sturm/Jost, Kahk/Middletom, Talbot/Gus, and even Kunin/Bonino was a somewhat lateral trade. It means he's not going to trade Dumba for futures (Zucker or Fiala trades), but wants a someone that replaces Dumba (to an extent) in the lineup coming back. The TOR trades on here with Dumba/Holl is decent example.

In theory, an EDM/MN trade would probably end up something around a Barrie/Dumba swap, but it doesn't work MN's cap and makes all their RD small. Greenway or Foligno for Poolparty or Yamamoto would be another example of lateral swap. Add in a pick where needed to even out the trade and make it fair.

I don't see MN and EDM being good trade partners. EDM calling about Dumba just seems like a GM doing his due diligence.


I get the idea of a lateral swap but what I don’t get is the messaging about wanting to win and the fact that hockey trades are less common in season (Kahk for Midds was an asset trade IMO and the other 2 were taking advantage of cap space, which doesn’t apply here). I don’t see a scenario in which we trade Dumba and get better this year, maybe there’s a defense for offense swap but nothing is jumping out to me. My question is whether they need to get a top 4 guy back if they trade Dumba or they’re willing to take a 3rd pair guy as the lateral swap.

Maybe you’re right about the Oilers as a trade partner, but this really feels like it’s about jacking up Dumba’s value in hopes somebody ponies up. Either Dumba finishes out the year or we will be blown away by the return. It’s just an odd situation.
Jan. 15, 2023 at 7:22 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: jnowariak
I get the idea of a lateral swap but what I don’t get is the messaging about wanting to win and the fact that hockey trades are less common in season (Kahk for Midds was an asset trade IMO and the other 2 were taking advantage of cap space, which doesn’t apply here). I don’t see a scenario in which we trade Dumba and get better this year, maybe there’s a defense for offense swap but nothing is jumping out to me. My question is whether they need to get a top 4 guy back if they trade Dumba or they’re willing to take a 3rd pair guy as the lateral swap.

Maybe you’re right about the Oilers as a trade partner, but this really feels like it’s about jacking up Dumba’s value in hopes somebody ponies up. Either Dumba finishes out the year or we will be blown away by the return. It’s just an odd situation.


Talbot/Gus was the only trade where the cap moved, and that's cause Talbot wanted out. Staal/Marjo (1C, it's what MarJo was sold as after the trade), Pateryn/Cole (6/7D), Sturm/Jost (4C), Kunin/Bonino (3C) were all position swaps. You could even add in Suter buyout and Goli signing.

I consider the MAF trade as part (maybe facilitator is a better word) of the Kahk/Middleton swap. Both happened on TDL day, and if the MAF trade doesn't happen then the Kahk/Middleton trade doesn't happen. MAF and Kahk had pretty close stats for MN last year too.

Basically to me GMBG is saying he's not going to weaken the team just for the sake of getting future assets. The d-corps is 7 deep currently, but there isn't anything in the AHL (Faber is a question mark too) behind them that is NHL ready. Trade Dumba for futures and then you're 6 deep in the d-corps, and any injury puts the team in a precarious position. The RD could be Goli, Addison, and Sustr with a Spurgeon injury (common occurrence) and a Dumba trade.

I just don't see many options for a Dumba trade unless there is a top-4 d-man coming back (Holl/Dumba swap example). It would need to be a 3rd team (either same trade or sperate trade) involved for a Dumba trade to happen. Something like Chychrun for futures to MN, and Dumba out of MN of futures.

It just sends the wrong message to the team about the season to trade away Dumba (good locker room, wears an "A", etc.) for nothing. After all this GM is all about the locker room.
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Jan. 15, 2023 at 7:27 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: wabit
Talbot/Gus was the only trade where the cap moved, and that's cause Talbot wanted out. Staal/Marjo (1C, it's what MarJo was sold as after the trade), Pateryn/Cole (6/7D), Sturm/Jost (4C), Kunin/Bonino (3C) were all position swaps. You could even add in Suter buyout and Goli signing.

I consider the MAF trade as part (maybe facilitator is a better word) of the Kahk/Middleton swap. Both happened on TDL day, and if the MAF trade doesn't happen then the Kahk/Middleton trade doesn't happen. MAF and Kahk had pretty close stats for MN last year too.

Basically to me GMBG is saying he's not going to weaken the team just for the sake of getting future assets. The d-corps is 7 deep currently, but there isn't anything in the AHL (Faber is a question mark too) behind them that is NHL ready. Trade Dumba for futures and then you're 6 deep in the d-corps, and any injury puts the team in a precarious position. The RD could be Goli, Addison, and Sustr with a Spurgeon injury (common occurrence) and a Dumba trade.

I just don't see many options for a Dumba trade unless there is a top-4 d-man coming back (Holl/Dumba swap example). It would need to be a 3rd team (either same trade or sperate trade) involved for a Dumba trade to happen. Something like Chychrun for futures to MN, and Dumba out of MN of futures.

It just sends the wrong message to the team about the season to trade away Dumba (good locker room, wears an "A", etc.) for nothing. After all this GM is all about the locker room.


I think we’re on the same page. The talk of trading a top 4 D and that you’re serious about competing just doesn’t make sense. Ditto for the locker room stuff.

With as much as Russo said he’s gonna get traded, I have to think there’s fire. But yeah, we will see.
Jan. 15, 2023 at 8:19 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: jnowariak
I think we’re on the same page. The talk of trading a top 4 D and that you’re serious about competing just doesn’t make sense. Ditto for the locker room stuff.

With as much as Russo said he’s gonna get traded, I have to think there’s fire. But yeah, we will see.


Russo has had Dumba traded many times over. The same with Brodin. I think Russo is just doing his job and reporting there is interest in Dumba; which seems to be common knowledge in the the NHL talking head world. GMBG is saying the "right" things so far, and there isn't much to dissect his words (Fiala 3 good months last year).

I also think Russo is becoming more of a talking head than the Wild beat reporter this year. He needs something to talk about in his podcasts and he can't be too hard on the team as a whole (he might lose his inside access) so Dumba is the easiest thing to talk about, fill time, and keep people interested.

Really the Wild are a boring team to report on. The starting goalie is the only thing that changes before games. The lineups don't change, there isn't a in-game line blender of a coach, they don't practice (morning skates are all optional), the Kap line is the only line that works, etc.
Jan. 17, 2023 at 5:23 p.m.
#15
tasieboy
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Quoting: jnowariak
I’ll be honest and say I’m not sure what the pecking order is in EDM. I know Holland has talked to MN about Dumba per our best reporter so there’s interest, but the Wild apparently want a D man to come back in a Dumba deal. But if Broberg isn’t available for Chychrun, I’m not sure why EDM even thinks they can play in the trade market.


Broberg was also Hollands first pick as Oilers gm I think he doesn't want to trade him for that reason. Cuz Broberg is his project and if he develops successfully Holland made a "good" pick and can maybe keep his job longer.
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Jan. 17, 2023 at 5:53 p.m.
#16
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Quoting: tasieboy
Broberg was also Hollands first pick as Oilers gm I think he doesn't want to trade him for that reason. Cuz Broberg is his project and if he develops successfully Holland made a "good" pick and can maybe keep his job longer.


THAT is a reason a GM would make a player “untouchable.” Didn’t know that, good info.

But I’m bullish on Holland not being GM next year.
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