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Adding some tonnage on the blue line

Created by: GiggywithGibby
Team: 2023-24 Anaheim Ducks
Initial Creation Date: Dec. 24, 2022
Published: Jan. 17, 2023
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
With a stagnant cap and a lot of UFA's this season, Anaheim can shore up their defense in FA and take advantage of cap strapped team(s). This team is probably not ready to make any noise in the playoffs, but the object is stabilize the back end, let the young players continue to develop, teach them resilience and tenacity, and try to bring our shots against/game back down into reasonable numbers. Lets talk about the additions to the roster.

Matt Dumba: He is not the $6 million dollar man, but what he is is an amazing locker room presence, willing to throw the big hit to re-energize the team, stand up for his team mates, and most importantly, is right shot. It's a bit of an overpay, and I would ideally like to do 4 years instead of 5, but he is still only 28 years old, the tail end of that deal shouldn't get too ugly, maybe structure the contract so it is buyout favorable if need be. Dumba will be Cam's partner, while he no longer has the offensive capability he once did, he has picked up the defense to compensate. This should free up Fowler to stop getting burned as badly because he doesn't have to focus so much on the shutdown role. Dumba can be pushed down to 2nd pair with Fowler as the Graves-Drysdale line comes to prominence, and be Zellweger or Mintyukov's partner when they come up and replace Fowler.

Ryan Graves: 6'5", 220lbs, blocks shots, lays hits, clears out the crease, this is the guy Gibson has been begging for. He's not here to provide any offense, he is here to be Drysdale's stay at home D partner and make sure no enemy crests get between him and the blue paint. Deal is also probably a bit rich, but securing his services is a must. Backup idea would be to try and pry Logan Stanley free from Winnipeg.

Tyler Myers: at 6'8" and 230 lbs, the big man from Texas is no where near as tough as he needs to be, but under lesser minutes, he should do okay. The Canucks need to clear cap space in order to resign Kuzemenko, and maybe to try and keep their captain. Myers may only be owed 1 mil in real money, but that 6 mil in cap hit they need to loose. He will be find as a third line and PK player with lower utilization. I prefer this idea over getting a 2nd for Zaitsev from Ottowa. This allows Helleson another year of development in the AHL, where he has had a bit of trouble adjusting to the pace, let's not rush the kid.

These additions bring our average defensive stature to 6'1" and 202 lbs

Glenn Gawdin: The few games I have watched him in he has kept the motor going the entire time he is on the ice, he is eager for a spot and puts in the work, it he doesn't work out on the team, call up Benoit Oliver Groulx.

Pavol Regenda: This guy showed fantastic chemistry in the preseason with Jones and Grant, lets see if we can recapture the magic with a different center.

Let's take a look at the curveballs I have thrown into this roster.

Resign Stolarz to a two year deal. He will not play out the entire deal, being moved sometime in the 2nd season as a trade piece, and Dostal is then brought up. Reasoning behind this is to give the D core time to gel before bringing Dostal up, it lets Dostal continue to be the dedicated starter in SD another year, and we really don't have a replacement for him down in San Diego. This buys some time for Clang to continue to marinate in Sweeden and we get to see what Alexander can do at the AHL level. Erikson Ek, i'm sorry, but you can't crack a 0.900 at the AHL level, your time with the club is over.

Keep Henrique. Going against the favorite Rico to Colorado this season to solve their 2C issue, I say we keep him. Extend him when his contract is over for 2-3 years at ~4 mil AAV. He is still producing, is still great in the circle, and we need the offensive depth, and after waiving him to let him hear the branch creak, he seems to have understood his new role.

As for who we draft in 2023, I see us taking Leo Carlsson, one because we loose the Bedard sweepstakes, 2 because we need a top flight winger. we don't need to rush him to the show immediately, let him get used to the NA game in the AHL for a bit. After that, no idea, but we need wingers, and we need goalie prospects, plus we need more defensemen. After the 2nd round its best player available anyway, but we should take a look at going heavy on high risk high reward players in the later rounds.

Lets talk about the lines:

Henrique-McTavish-Terry: When this line was H-Z-T, there was no net front presence, Henrique tried, but it's not his forte, he is no Joe Pavelski. McTavish isn't either, but he does create enough chaos in front of the net to be effective. Henrique is there for secondary (or primary) faceoffs, and he and Terry can play pitch and catch until a shot has opened up while McTavish annoys the **** out of the goalie.

Comtois-Zegras-Strome: I have been saying for months that Strome was going to end up on RW, and here it is. Strome struggled at center the way Zegras struggled on the wing, but he can be a sharpshooter when he is not being overloaded with responsibility. Zegras is the setup man, Strome is the sharp shooter, and Comtois plays the power forward game down low in front of the net. Comtois would have kept his stick on the ice last night *cough* FOWLER *cough*

Vatrano-Lundestrom-Leason: Lundestrom is a fine defensive center who is great in the circle, but he has been stuck with Silfverberg, and the combination of two risk averse players has been sapping the line of any offense, no matter who the third party was. This has dragged Comtois' and Lundestrom's (the previous third line guys) stats into the dirt being stuck with him. Vatrano has great forechecking and some grit and takes chances to make plays happen, and has the kind of crash and bang style that allows him to force separation that Lundestrom can connect with him on. Add Leason for net front muscle.

Jones-Gawdin-Regenda: Gawdin has a great hockey IQ and seems to be able to play well with anyone. Jones and Regenda have already demonstrated great chemistry together, lets give this line a whirl and see what it does. If Gawding doesn't work, we can swap him out for Carrick or Groulx.

Powerplay 1: Don't mess with a good thing. One of the few things that has worked to any degree is this powerplay setup, however, we swap Fowler for Drysdale, so that the Bromance of Zegras Drysdale can continue

Powerplay 2: I thought about putting Vatrano an RW, and he could be slotted in easily enough, but I wanted Vatrano on PK1 because he is incredibly dangerous if he can generate a turnover with a forecheck and get in for a breakaway attempt, and I don't want to have him logging too many minutes a night, so instead I put Leason. This poweplay unit is going to prioritize puck possession and creating a scrum in front of the net to try and jam home rebounds with Leason and Comtois.

Penalty Kill 1: Lundestrom is great defensively, never caught out of position, never looses his assignment, always in the right place, and great in the dot. Vatrano is an aggressive forchecker and is incredibly dangerous on the breakaway and will hit and block shots. Pair with the combination of Graves and Dumba, this is the PK unit that will get all the short handed goals and make opposing PP units pay for every inch.

Penalty Kill 2: Gawdin and Jones with Vaakainen and Myers. This unit is set up to bend not break, Block shots, get the puck down the ice, keep the other team's PP2 away from Gibson, don't get fancy, don't get cute, just do the job.

Silfverberg frankly needs to go, his hands are gone and he is a one dimensional defensive winger now. Even at 2.6 mil (50% retention) I don't know that there would be any takers, so I am assuming he gets a nice new suit for the press box or he can go down to San Diego.

While it looks like I have gone and capped the team out, 11.25 mil comes off the books the season after (+/- whatever delta for resigning Henrique or replacing him), and we need a 3RD and a reserve player. That money will be set aside for McTavish's and Drysdale's new deals. Fowler probably doesn't stick around once his deal is up at age 34, Gibson might stick around, but we can't give him 6 again, he will have to start sharing the net with Dostal.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
3$2,800,000
2$850,000
8$8,000,000
8$8,000,000
2$2,500,000
2$775,000
2$775,000
2$775,000
2$775,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
2$1,500,000
5$5,000,000
5$4,500,000
CREATEDYEARSCAP HIT
Carlsson, Leo
3$925,000
Trades
VAN
    FC
    Buyouts
    DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
    2023
    Logo of the ANA
    Logo of the BOS
    Logo of the COL
    Logo of the ANA
    Logo of the MIN
    Logo of the ANA
    Logo of the ANA
    Logo of the ANA
    Logo of the ANA
    2024
    Logo of the ANA
    Logo of the ANA
    Logo of the BOS
    Logo of the ANA
    Logo of the ANA
    Logo of the ANA
    Logo of the ANA
    Logo of the ANA
    2025
    Logo of the ANA
    Logo of the ANA
    Logo of the ANA
    Logo of the ANA
    Logo of the ANA
    Logo of the ANA
    Logo of the ANA
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    23$83,500,000$74,987,917$0$2,557,500$8,512,083

    Roster

    Left WingCentreRight Wing
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $1,456,250$1,456,250
    LW, C
    M-NTC
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$2,500,000$2M)
    C, LW
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $8,000,000$8,000,000
    RW
    UFA - 7
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $2,800,000$2,800,000
    LW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $8,000,000$8,000,000
    C, LW
    RFA - 3
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $5,000,000$5,000,000
    RW, C
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $3,650,000$3,650,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $1,800,000$1,800,000
    C, LW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $775,000$775,000
    RW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $1,295,000$1,295,000
    LW, RW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $762,500$762,500
    C, RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $855,000$855,000 (Performance Bonus$57,500$58K)
    LW, RW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $425,000$425,000
    C, RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $5,250,000$5,250,000
    RW, LW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 1
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $6,500,000$6,500,000
    LD/RD
    M-NTC
    UFA - 3
    $5,000,000$5,000,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $6,400,000$6,400,000
    G
    M-NTC
    UFA - 4
    $4,500,000$4,500,000
    LD
    UFA - 6
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $2,500,000$2,500,000
    RD
    RFA - 3
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $1,500,000$1,500,000
    G
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $850,000$850,000
    LD/RD
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
    $6,000,000$6,000,000
    RD
    M-NTC
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $775,000$775,000
    LD
    RFA - 1

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    Jan. 17, 2023 at 11:28 p.m.
    #1
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    Not a soul is reading all of that
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    Jan. 18, 2023 at 1:50 a.m.
    #2
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    Canucks accept
    Jan. 18, 2023 at 1:04 p.m.
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    Jan. 18, 2023 at 1:17 p.m.
    #4
    westleysnipez
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    Quoting: HabsCanucks
    Canucks accept


    Canucks don't accept, they're not going to be able to do anything with the additional salary this year. When July rolls around, Myers is going to be highly sought after as he'd only be owed 1M in salary. A team like Arizona or Ottawa will pay to acquire him to buff up their right side and reach the cap floor.
    Jan. 18, 2023 at 1:32 p.m.
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    Edited Jan. 18, 2023 at 1:54 p.m.
    Quoting: westleysnipez
    Canucks don't accept, they're not going to be able to do anything with the additional salary this year. When July rolls around, Myers is going to be highly sought after as he'd only be owed 1M in salary. A team like Arizona or Ottawa will pay to acquire him to buff up their right side and reach the cap floor.


    Ottowa is not going to have any problem reaching the cap floor with the extensions they have to sign, and they would want to move Zaitsev if they are taking Myers 6 mil against the cap. Matter of fact, they are already above the cap floor for next season based on their current contracts, and they have 11 players to resign/replace, including Debrincat and Pinto, they won't take Myers.

    Arizona and Chicago are not going to pay draft capital to acquire him when they can get paid to take other players. Fact of the matter is the 6 mil in cap space is more valuable to Vancouver than only 1 mil in real salary is to those teams.
    Jan. 18, 2023 at 1:55 p.m.
    #6
    Lenny7
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    Quoting: GiggywithGibby
    OldNYIfan GeneralLandro Lenny7 thoughts?


    I have zero interest in adding Tyler Myers without an asset attached, regardless of whether it's before or after the bonus is paid out. If someone wants him because he'll be "highly sought after", then have at it, but he's a cap dump, plain and simple. If we're creating $6 mil in space for the Nucks to improve their roster elsewhere, and not getting anything for doing it, then why not just go after someone like Severson (longer commitment, but still fills that hole that we're going to have for at least the next 2-3 years or more, depending on how the young RD's develop), Mayfield, heck, I'd even go for Justin Holl. These are just examples, but doing another team HUGE favor where there's little to no benefit for this team is silly.
    Jan. 18, 2023 at 1:56 p.m.
    #7
    Lenny7
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    Quoting: westleysnipez
    Canucks don't accept, they're not going to be able to do anything with the additional salary this year. When July rolls around, Myers is going to be highly sought after as he'd only be owed 1M in salary. A team like Arizona or Ottawa will pay to acquire him to buff up their right side and reach the cap floor.


    What are some examples of a team paying draft capital to take on a cap dump to hit the floor?
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    Jan. 18, 2023 at 1:58 p.m.
    #8
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    Quoting: Lenny7
    I have zero interest in adding Tyler Myers without an asset attached, regardless of whether it's before or after the bonus is paid out. If someone wants him because he'll be "highly sought after", then have at it, but he's a cap dump, plain and simple. If we're creating $6 mil in space for the Nucks to improve their roster elsewhere, and not getting anything for doing it, then why not just go after someone like Severson (longer commitment, but still fills that hole that we're going to have for at least the next 2-3 years or more, depending on how the young RD's develop), Mayfield, heck, I'd even go for Justin Holl. These are just examples, but doing another team HUGE favor where there's little to no benefit for this team is silly.


    Myer's can be swapped out for Zaitsev from Ottowa. Specifically I was looking for a one year stop gap to give Helleson another year of development in the AHL before he is called up. Saving 5 million in real cash though does have a fair bit of value to the Ducks who I am sure are hemorrhaging money this season. But I agree, no one is paying for Myers.
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    Jan. 18, 2023 at 2:04 p.m.
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    Quoting: westleysnipez
    Canucks don't accept, they're not going to be able to do anything with the additional salary this year. When July rolls around, Myers is going to be highly sought after as he'd only be owed 1M in salary. A team like Arizona or Ottawa will pay to acquire him to buff up their right side and reach the cap floor.


    Teams aren't going to pay to reach the cap floor, especially when there are plenty of bad contracts out there to get paid to take off someone else's hand. Would you rather give up a pick (let's say a 4th) for the right to pay Myers $1M for a $6M cap hit when you can get paid a 2nd, 3rd, and move up in the 1st round to get $6.4M of Zack Kassian for only $5.8M? Even the smallest market teams can see the value is going to lean towards getting multiple picks for eating cap over paying a pick to get to the floor. And if you're still a little short of the floor by the end of the summer? You can sign a guy like Andreas Athanasiou for probably double what the market thinks he's worth, then flip him out at the deadline fully retained. Or you can call up one of those teams with an LTIR contract and take it off their hands so they can actually build cap space during the year. Paying a pick for a big cap hit/small paycheck guy should be your last option.
    Jan. 18, 2023 at 2:47 p.m.
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    westleysnipez
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    Quoting: dannibalcorpse
    Teams aren't going to pay to reach the cap floor, especially when there are plenty of bad contracts out there to get paid to take off someone else's hand. Would you rather give up a pick (let's say a 4th) for the right to pay Myers $1M for a $6M cap hit when you can get paid a 2nd, 3rd, and move up in the 1st round to get $6.4M of Zack Kassian for only $5.8M? Even the smallest market teams can see the value is going to lean towards getting multiple picks for eating cap over paying a pick to get to the floor. And if you're still a little short of the floor by the end of the summer? You can sign a guy like Andreas Athanasiou for probably double what the market thinks he's worth, then flip him out at the deadline fully retained. Or you can call up one of those teams with an LTIR contract and take it off their hands so they can actually build cap space during the year. Paying a pick for a big cap hit/small paycheck guy should be your last option.


    The difference is Myers is an actual Top-4 RHD, while all the other players you listed aren't serviceable. It's going to be more than a 4th coming back for Myers.
    Jan. 18, 2023 at 3:03 p.m.
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    Quoting: westleysnipez
    The difference is Myers is an actual Top-4 RHD, while all the other players you listed aren't serviceable. It's going to be more than a 4th coming back for Myers.


    Just because you get top 4 minutes doesn't mean you're a top 4 player. He's a shadow of his old self offensively (after being a 30-35 point guy for years he's on pace for 20 this year), his possession numbers are bad (giving up nearly 56% of the chances when he's on the ice) and he's the #1 penalty killer on the worst PK in the league. The fancy metrics don't paint any better of a picture - by GSVA, he's been the worst defenseman on the team.

    Or, we could look at this way. Dmitry Kulikov is the same age as Myers - so he was a year younger last summer than Myers will be this year. He was coming off a 7-17-24 season in Minnesota (literally his best offensive year since 2011-12) getting top 4 minutes with the Wild. He was basically an even possession player (chances for-against with him on ice were 1154-1156), and was PK2 for a pretty mediocre PK (25th overall). His cap hit was $2.25M in his walk year - any idea what Minnesota got for him, a player coming off a clearly superior season?
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    Jan. 18, 2023 at 4:46 p.m.
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    Who has the time to read all this stuff?

    Just kidding. Anyone who doesn’t read this through to the end doesn’t want or deserve to be educated.

    I’m not going to invest the same amount of time on this as you obviously have; my reactions are somewhat off-the-cuff, so in places where we differ, a priori assume that I’m wrong and you’re right.

    I love the thought of signing Dumba and Graves.

    I’m with our friend @Lenny7 thinking that we should get a positive asset for Myers.

    I’m with you on Gawdin, Regenda, Stolarz, Henrique and Carlsson even though I’m fond of a particular potential Henrique move. I hope to God we don’t draft Michkov. It’s too bad that all but one of the defensemen in the top 30 North American prospects and top 10 European skaters are right-handed; the pickings will be slim for us in the second round.

    Line formations: add to the reasons for Vatrano being put with Lundestrom and Leason (namely, offense) is the fact that he’s thinking “shoot” as he swings his front leg over the boards.

    I have no insightful comment to add to your discussions of special teams other than to say that you mis-titled the fourth paragraph on them.

    100% agree that we should lock up Terry and Zegras for the maximum.

    Thanks for the effort that went into this. It’s more than food for thought, it’s a banquet. Thank you for prodding me to think, which is both fun and the best thing that will happen to me today.

    Quoting: GladeBang12
    Not a soul is reading all of that

    I did.
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    Jan. 18, 2023 at 10:45 p.m.
    #13
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    Jan. 19, 2023 at 1:09 a.m.
    #14
    westleysnipez
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    Quoting: dannibalcorpse
    Just because you get top 4 minutes doesn't mean you're a top 4 player. He's a shadow of his old self offensively (after being a 30-35 point guy for years he's on pace for 20 this year), his possession numbers are bad (giving up nearly 56% of the chances when he's on the ice) and he's the #1 penalty killer on the worst PK in the league. The fancy metrics don't paint any better of a picture - by GSVA, he's been the worst defenseman on the team.

    Or, we could look at this way. Dmitry Kulikov is the same age as Myers - so he was a year younger last summer than Myers will be this year. He was coming off a 7-17-24 season in Minnesota (literally his best offensive year since 2011-12) getting top 4 minutes with the Wild. He was basically an even possession player (chances for-against with him on ice were 1154-1156), and was PK2 for a pretty mediocre PK (25th overall). His cap hit was $2.25M in his walk year - any idea what Minnesota got for him, a player coming off a clearly superior season?


    Firstly, Kulikov is a LHD, not a RHD. Everybody knows RHD are highly sought after, even bad ones. That's why Gudbranson was able to get a 4M x 4 year deal with Columbus this offseason. That's why Travis Hamonic was dealt for a 3rd. We can all agree that Tyler Myers is a better defenseman than Hamonic.

    Secondly, Kulikov was moved because of Minnesota's cap crunch and their need to re-sign key players. Fiala was also moved out for less than he was worth by the Wild, too. Vancouver isn't in the same cap crunch as Minnesota. Horvat is going to be traded, he won't be re-signed. That leaves Bear, Dermott, and Kuzmenko left to be re-signed this offseason. The Canucks will be able to fit in all of those players in 14M of cap space. 6-7M for Kuzmenko, 3M for Bear, 1.5M for Dermott. 2.5-3.5M in cap space.

    If the Canucks don't get a team willing to pay for Myers, then they don't trade him. There is no sense in the Canucks giving up a positive asset for nothing when they gain nothing from trading him. I could maybe see him being dealt for FC as part of a bigger picture trade, if it meant the Canucks were acquiring a better RHD to replace him and needed that cap space cleared. As an offseason post-July 1st trade, it would make the Canucks worse and whichever team was acquiring him better. If Myers is dealt, the Canucks are going to get assets back for him.
    Jan. 19, 2023 at 1:10 a.m.
    #15
    LosPatos
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    I really really like the idea of Ryan Graves on the Ducks: he’s a perfect top 4 defenseman that can be the new Fowler until Zellweger / Mintyukov are set in stone. Fowler’s beginning to slow down so I think limiting his time and having Graves take his place would be great.

    Dumba I think would be nice but 5 years is a bit much. I’d say a 2 year at most: re-sign if he performs with our core.

    I think I’m ready to move on from the Benoit experiment ,and I think Stolarz goes somewhere else. It’s time for Dostal to take the reign.
    Jan. 19, 2023 at 3:01 a.m.
    #16
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    Quoting: westleysnipez
    Firstly, Kulikov is a LHD, not a RHD. Everybody knows RHD are highly sought after, even bad ones. That's why Gudbranson was able to get a 4M x 4 year deal with Columbus this offseason. That's why Travis Hamonic was dealt for a 3rd. We can all agree that Tyler Myers is a better defenseman than Hamonic.

    Secondly, Kulikov was moved because of Minnesota's cap crunch and their need to re-sign key players. Fiala was also moved out for less than he was worth by the Wild, too. Vancouver isn't in the same cap crunch as Minnesota. Horvat is going to be traded, he won't be re-signed. That leaves Bear, Dermott, and Kuzmenko left to be re-signed this offseason. The Canucks will be able to fit in all of those players in 14M of cap space. 6-7M for Kuzmenko, 3M for Bear, 1.5M for Dermott. 2.5-3.5M in cap space.

    If the Canucks don't get a team willing to pay for Myers, then they don't trade him. There is no sense in the Canucks giving up a positive asset for nothing when they gain nothing from trading him. I could maybe see him being dealt for FC as part of a bigger picture trade, if it meant the Canucks were acquiring a better RHD to replace him and needed that cap space cleared. As an offseason post-July 1st trade, it would make the Canucks worse and whichever team was acquiring him better. If Myers is dealt, the Canucks are going to get assets back for him.


    I'm curious, who you think has the 6 million in cap space next season, and is looking at Myers not only as an upgrade on something they have, but is a positive asset at a 6 million cap hit? He's not a 6 million dollar player, maybe at 3 million you could get someone to pay for him, but not at 6. The benefits of moving him is that you clear out his cap space to try and sign someone younger to move the retool along. Seriously though, I want to know out of the other 31 teams in the NHL, who is going to give you a pick to acquire 1 year of Myers?

    Guys like Klingberg you can point at being in the wrong system that doesn't utilize his talents to explain their drop in stats. Myers doesn't have the excuse for this drop in production other than he is regressing due to age. As for Kulikov, he has a ~2 mil cap hit, and is paid relatively fairly for what he does. What does Myers do that is worth 6 mil against the cap?
    Jan. 19, 2023 at 3:40 a.m.
    #17
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    Quoting: LosPatos
    I really really like the idea of Ryan Graves on the Ducks: he’s a perfect top 4 defenseman that can be the new Fowler until Zellweger / Mintyukov are set in stone. Fowler’s beginning to slow down so I think limiting his time and having Graves take his place would be great.

    Dumba I think would be nice but 5 years is a bit much. I’d say a 2 year at most: re-sign if he performs with our core.

    I think I’m ready to move on from the Benoit experiment ,and I think Stolarz goes somewhere else. It’s time for Dostal to take the reign.


    I don't see Benoit as a problem if he is a 7thD that we use for games that we know are going to get physical or when we are concerned we might get caved in by opposing offenses. He is leading the team in hits, 2nd in blocked shots behind only Kulikov, and has a positive points share on defense. Utilized properly, on a cheap deal, he's fine.

    As for Dumba, who do we have in our system who would supplant him inside of 5 years? Helleson is bottom 4 material, Strand is just a depth guy, Axel can't stay healthy in the AHL, and probably isn't kept around. Assuming NCAA guys need 2 years of AHL experience before they're ready, Moore is 3-4 years out, as are Nickl and Francis, and that's assuming they don't wash out or turn free agent on us. That gets us down to warren and Thrun, who are likely 4 years out or more. There's the end of Dumbas deal. Add to that, Zegras is already 21, Terry is 25, McTavish is going to enter his prime soon. We need to get some defense back there to start letting the kids open up the taps. I don't think Dumba is willing to sign a 2 year deal, I think it takes 4-6 to get him.

    As to Dostal, I know he is ready, but we have no succession plan in place for the AHL, I'd like to leave him as the starter there another year to get a clearer picture of who takes his place in San Diego. A bad AHL team could start costing us development time/trajectories, and he still is waivers exempt for another season or two.
    Jan. 19, 2023 at 10:31 a.m.
    #18
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    Quoting: westleysnipez
    Firstly, Kulikov is a LHD, not a RHD. Everybody knows RHD are highly sought after, even bad ones. That's why Gudbranson was able to get a 4M x 4 year deal with Columbus this offseason. That's why Travis Hamonic was dealt for a 3rd. We can all agree that Tyler Myers is a better defenseman than Hamonic.

    Secondly, Kulikov was moved because of Minnesota's cap crunch and their need to re-sign key players. Fiala was also moved out for less than he was worth by the Wild, too. Vancouver isn't in the same cap crunch as Minnesota. Horvat is going to be traded, he won't be re-signed. That leaves Bear, Dermott, and Kuzmenko left to be re-signed this offseason. The Canucks will be able to fit in all of those players in 14M of cap space. 6-7M for Kuzmenko, 3M for Bear, 1.5M for Dermott. 2.5-3.5M in cap space.

    If the Canucks don't get a team willing to pay for Myers, then they don't trade him. There is no sense in the Canucks giving up a positive asset for nothing when they gain nothing from trading him. I could maybe see him being dealt for FC as part of a bigger picture trade, if it meant the Canucks were acquiring a better RHD to replace him and needed that cap space cleared. As an offseason post-July 1st trade, it would make the Canucks worse and whichever team was acquiring him better. If Myers is dealt, the Canucks are going to get assets back for him.


    Kulikov's trade was not cap-related the way Fiala's was - Fiala was moved because any long-term extension was going to become an issue in the next 2 years when nearly $15M would be tied up in the Parise/Suter buyouts. Shedding Kulikov's $2.25M expiring cap hit sent Minnesota from around $3M in cap space at the time to over $5M - they didn't move him because they needed the space, they just didn't have a big need for him - the same way you could say a rebuilding/retooling Vancouver team wouldn't have a big need for a $6M Tyler Myers.

    You're not wrong that RHD can be more valuable than LHD; but, again, I think that factor falls off when you factor in that Myers is overpaid by quite a bit. If Vancouver is holding out for getting back an actual pick or prospect, well, they're most likely going to be disappointed - any contending team that might target a veteran RHD like him is going to pass based on his price tag, and any lottery team that has the cap space for him isn't going to really care whether it's Tyler Myers or Anton Stralman or one of the many Staal brothers getting them to the cap floor, so they're not going to pay anything other than a salary to fill that roster spot.
    Jan. 19, 2023 at 11:46 a.m.
    #19
    LosPatos
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    Quoting: GiggywithGibby
    I don't see Benoit as a problem if he is a 7thD that we use for games that we know are going to get physical or when we are concerned we might get caved in by opposing offenses. He is leading the team in hits, 2nd in blocked shots behind only Kulikov, and has a positive points share on defense. Utilized properly, on a cheap deal, he's fine.

    As for Dumba, who do we have in our system who would supplant him inside of 5 years? Helleson is bottom 4 material, Strand is just a depth guy, Axel can't stay healthy in the AHL, and probably isn't kept around. Assuming NCAA guys need 2 years of AHL experience before they're ready, Moore is 3-4 years out, as are Nickl and Francis, and that's assuming they don't wash out or turn free agent on us. That gets us down to warren and Thrun, who are likely 4 years out or more. There's the end of Dumbas deal. Add to that, Zegras is already 21, Terry is 25, McTavish is going to enter his prime soon. We need to get some defense back there to start letting the kids open up the taps. I don't think Dumba is willing to sign a 2 year deal, I think it takes 4-6 to get him.

    As to Dostal, I know he is ready, but we have no succession plan in place for the AHL, I'd like to leave him as the starter there another year to get a clearer picture of who takes his place in San Diego. A bad AHL team could start costing us development time/trajectories, and he still is waivers exempt for another season or two.


    Good points. I agree with the right handed defensemen portion, however I just get bad vibes with Dumba. I don’t necessarily think he’d be bad at all, but it really gives me 2019 Kevin Shattenkirk vibes. But I could be wrong.

    I do disagree with Dostal though. I think Calle Clang or Gage Alexander could easily take over Dostal’s position in San Diego. Eriksson Ek isn’t that bad either. But if we did keep Dostal in SD I’d rather just pull a move similar what we did with Ryan Miller. One year vet who is just looking for a new home kinda deal. I think Stolarz is likely done with the org by the deadline. Again, could be wrong though who knows what Verbeek wants
    Jan. 19, 2023 at 9:06 p.m.
    #20
    westleysnipez
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    Quoting: GiggywithGibby
    I'm curious, who you think has the 6 million in cap space next season, and is looking at Myers not only as an upgrade on something they have, but is a positive asset at a 6 million cap hit?


    Myers is already a positive asset. Look at the list of defensemen who signed as UFAs and are able to play 22+ mins/night. Only 3 of them (Montour, Larsson, and Savard) signed after Myers did for less than he did. Even in the cap-strapped offseason last year, look at how much the various RHD were able to command, namely Gudbranson and Klingberg. RHD is the most sought-after position, you have to pay to get someone decent, and you pay through the nose for someone above average. We can all say that Myers is a much, much better defenseman than Gudbranson. I understand teams are tight on cap space, I'm sure the Canucks are willing to retain on Myers to have him fit within the confines of other teams' cap constraints, for an increased fee of course.

    Quoting: GiggywithGibby
    He's not a 6 million dollar player, maybe at 3 million you could get someone to pay for him, but not at 6. The benefits of moving him is that you clear out his cap space to try and sign someone younger to move the retool along. Seriously though, I want to know out of the other 31 teams in the NHL, who is going to give you a pick to acquire 1 year of Myers?


    1. Arizona; they have a projected cap hit next season of 43.9M and three defensive spots to fill. They're losing Ladd's 5.5M LTIR contract and they're needing to budget around 60M in salary expenditure with their financial situation. Myers would give Arizona a reliable Top-4 RHD capable of playing 22+ mins/night, a 6M cap hit that helps them reach the cap floor, with only a 1M salary that helps them stick to their internal budget. They'd be able to take Myers on with no retention needed.

    2. Washington; outside of Carlsson, they have no defense signed through next season at all. With other teams also needing to upgrade their defense, the Caps are going to be looking for another solution. If cap space becomes a concern for the Capitals, Myers retained at 50% is going to be much better than the other options Washington has, I doubt they'll be able to re-sign Jensen or a UFA RHD that cheap.

    3. Ottawa; again with salary issues and the desire to improve the right side, Myers looks to be one of the best options. They have Hamonic expiring this offseason, and they've expressed a desire to upgrade their right side, with rumors of them making offers for Myers that the Canucks turned down because it wasn't enough.

    I'm sure more teams will be interested post-Free Agency when the best UFAs are gone and GMs are scrambling to upgrade their rosters for the start of next season.

    Quoting: GiggywithGibby
    Guys like Klingberg you can point at being in the wrong system that doesn't utilize his talents to explain their drop in stats. Myers doesn't have the excuse for this drop in production other than he is regressing due to age. As for Kulikov, he has a ~2 mil cap hit, and is paid relatively fairly for what he does. What does Myers do that is worth 6 mil against the cap?


    Myers does have the 'wrong system' excuse. Last season, under Brad Shaw's defensive system, Myers was a bonafide #2, excellent in his own end, and a big part of the Canucks 105-point pace post-Green. After the firing of Travis Green, Myers was a new man. He's regressed this season now that he's no longer under Shaw, instead he's under Jason King's which is similar to the one he was playing under Green.

    Myers is much better than people give him credit for, a lot of people just see his cap hit and points and say he's bad. He gets no PP time, he's the workhorse on the Canucks PK, and he's given the tough shutdown matchups to free up Hughes to do his own thing.
    Jan. 19, 2023 at 9:10 p.m.
    #21
    westleysnipez
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    Quoting: dannibalcorpse
    Kulikov's trade was not cap-related the way Fiala's was - Fiala was moved because any long-term extension was going to become an issue in the next 2 years when nearly $15M would be tied up in the Parise/Suter buyouts. Shedding Kulikov's $2.25M expiring cap hit sent Minnesota from around $3M in cap space at the time to over $5M - they didn't move him because they needed the space, they just didn't have a big need for him - the same way you could say a rebuilding/retooling Vancouver team wouldn't have a big need for a $6M Tyler Myers.


    "This is a tough one, because he [Kulikov] had a great year last year, played very well for us, but we need some more [NHL salary] cap space," Wild general manager Bill Guerin said. "We felt we had maybe one too many defensemen and we don't want to put guys in a position to where they're not playing or not playing enough. This has been talked about for quite a while with Anaheim, so it just kind of came to a head today, but we wish him nothing but the best."

    That's exactly why the Wild traded Kulikov. Make no mistake, the Canucks do not have the same issue with Myers. They're happy to have him play out the remainder of his contract, even deal him at the deadline next season as a rental with a less cap accrual if it comes to that.

    Quoting: dannibalcorpse
    You're not wrong that RHD can be more valuable than LHD; but, again, I think that factor falls off when you factor in that Myers is overpaid by quite a bit. If Vancouver is holding out for getting back an actual pick or prospect, well, they're most likely going to be disappointed - any contending team that might target a veteran RHD like him is going to pass based on his price tag, and any lottery team that has the cap space for him isn't going to really care whether it's Tyler Myers or Anton Stralman or one of the many Staal brothers getting them to the cap floor, so they're not going to pay anything other than a salary to fill that roster spot.


    The Canucks have already been approached by teams with offers, namely Ottawa who was rumored to be very interested in Myers. They turned down the offers in hopes of something more substantial, and also because management thought the team would turn around. Neither has happened yet. When they do, Myers will be traded.
    Jan. 19, 2023 at 9:20 p.m.
    #22
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    Quoting: westleysnipez
    "This is a tough one, because he [Kulikov] had a great year last year, played very well for us, but we need some more [NHL salary] cap space," Wild general manager Bill Guerin said. "We felt we had maybe one too many defensemen and we don't want to put guys in a position to where they're not playing or not playing enough. This has been talked about for quite a while with Anaheim, so it just kind of came to a head today, but we wish him nothing but the best."

    That's exactly why the Wild traded Kulikov. Make no mistake, the Canucks do not have the same issue with Myers. They're happy to have him play out the remainder of his contract, even deal him at the deadline next season as a rental with a less cap accrual if it comes to that.



    The Canucks have already been approached by teams with offers, namely Ottawa who was rumored to be very interested in Myers. They turned down the offers in hopes of something more substantial, and also because management thought the team would turn around. Neither has happened yet. When they do, Myers will be traded.


    for what it's worth the Guerin quote you posted has him saying they needed more cap space followed immediately by them saying they had one too many defensemen, so we're both technically right.

    Rumors are rumors but I had heard the Ottawa interest had them sending back Zaitsev, which probably is why nothing happened. Just because you hear a team has interest in a guy doesn't always mean the interest is in giving up a good asset for him - teams are going to do the same stuff we do here, looking at a guy we "know" that Team B needs to move and trying to get him for a bargain.

    Agree to disagree on Myers, I guess - I just don't believe that in a flat cap league a team is going to give up an asset to get to the salary floor, and I think the likelihood that a big, physical D like Myers makes a big enough turnaround in his age-33 season that a contender would be interested in bringing him on is extremely low.
    Jan. 19, 2023 at 9:39 p.m.
    #23
    westleysnipez
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    Quoting: dannibalcorpse
    for what it's worth the Guerin quote you posted has him saying they needed more cap space followed immediately by them saying they had one too many defensemen, so we're both technically right.


    Bruh, what? You literally said he wasn't traded because of cap space, and Wild GM literally said that was the case. There's no 'technically correct,' your statement was patently disproven.

    Quoting: dannibalcorpse
    Rumors are rumors but I had heard the Ottawa interest had them sending back Zaitsev, which probably is why nothing happened. Just because you hear a team has interest in a guy doesn't always mean the interest is in giving up a good asset for him - teams are going to do the same stuff we do here, looking at a guy we "know" that Team B needs to move and trying to get him for a bargain.


    Yes, and Vancouver wanted picks+prospects back alongside. As I said, the Canucks have no reason to move Myers like Ottawa has to move Zaitsev. Myers is a much, much better defenseman than Zaitsev, he hasn't been healthy scratched or placed on waivers — Zaitsev has.

    Quoting: dannibalcorpse
    Agree to disagree on Myers, I guess - I just don't believe that in a flat cap league a team is going to give up an asset to get to the salary floor, and I think the likelihood that a big, physical D like Myers makes a big enough turnaround in his age-33 season that a contender would be interested in bringing him on is extremely low.


    I never said a contender was interested in him, I've made a point of suggesting financially stressed, non-competing teams as the place where Myers would go with 0% retention. I don't believe the Canucks were interested in retaining salary on Myers before, now with the shift from pretenders to rebuild/retool, they likely would be. Myers at 50% would draw the interest of most teams in the league.
    Jan. 19, 2023 at 11:22 p.m.
    #24
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    Quoting: westleysnipez
    Bruh, what? You literally said he wasn't traded because of cap space, and Wild GM literally said that was the case. There's no 'technically correct,' your statement was patently disproven.


    jesus christ did you even read the quote you found?

    Quoting: Bill
    "This is a tough one, because he [Kulikov] had a great year last year, played very well for us, but we need some more [NHL salary] cap space," Wild general manager Bill Guerin said. "We felt we had maybe one too many defensemen and we don't want to put guys in a position to where they're not playing or not playing enough. This has been talked about for quite a while with Anaheim, so it just kind of came to a head today, but we wish him nothing but the best."
    Jan. 20, 2023 at 12:21 a.m.
    #25
    westleysnipez
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    Quoting: dannibalcorpse
    jesus christ did you even read the quote you found?


    Did you read what you wrote?

    Quoting: dannibalcorpse
    Kulikov's trade was not cap-related the way Fiala's was - Fiala was moved because any long-term extension was going to become an issue in the next 2 years when nearly $15M would be tied up in the Parise/Suter buyouts. Shedding Kulikov's $2.25M expiring cap hit sent Minnesota from around $3M in cap space at the time to over $5M - they didn't move him because they needed the space, they just didn't have a big need for him - the same way you could say a rebuilding/retooling Vancouver team wouldn't have a big need for a $6M Tyler Myers.


    You were blatantly wrong on all counts. Nothing you said in your statement was true. You were wrong, admit it and move on.
     
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