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Toronto Maple Leafs 2022 2023 Season Discussion (Part 3)

Feb. 1, 2023 at 9:58 p.m.
#476
Hakuna Matata
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Just throw this game down the toilet and hope a week off will reset this team

Embarrassing

And man were running out of Dpairings as Sandin-Liligren now getting cooked

Like when a team puts pressure and forechecks man that pairing caves in
Feb. 1, 2023 at 10:25 p.m.
#477
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The face I saw from Dubas tonight says to me we could see a potential move as man he really didnt look happy and was writing a lot of notes lul
Feb. 1, 2023 at 10:52 p.m.
#478
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Time to ask the question?
Let's assume that Leafs lose in the first round (not a huge stretch).
Leafs try negotiating an extension for Matthews and Nylander:
- Matthews tells Leafs he want 8 x $14M.
- Nylander wants 8x$10M
(both have not shown much goodwill towards Leafs management during negotiations in the past, so maybe not an extreme assumption).
So the question is - do you trade them in the off-season? Who/what could you expect to get?
OR
Do you go in to one more season with the same stars in the line-up and likely be expected to finish #3 in the division again, and then risk losing them for nothing.?
My guess is if you dump them then Taveras would waive the no trade and you could do a rebuilt with hopes of coming back again in 3 or 4 years.
Feb. 1, 2023 at 10:52 p.m.
#479
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Funny how people say Toronto going out and getting 3 forwards at the TDL is unrealistic or impossible

I mean Tampa and Colorado did it last year lul

In general the bottom 6 needs work bad and its not a single or two move kind of fix they need at least 3 guys
Feb. 1, 2023 at 10:52 p.m.
#480
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Quoting: Messier99
Time to ask the question?
Let's assume that Leafs lose in the first round (not a huge stretch).
Leafs try negotiating an extension for Matthews and Nylander:
- Matthews tells Leafs he want 8 x $14M.
- Nylander wants 8x$10M
(both have not shown much goodwill towards Leafs management during negotiations in the past, so maybe not an extreme assumption).
So the question is - do you trade them in the off-season? Who/what could you expect to get?
OR
Do you go in to one more season with the same stars in the line-up and likely be expected to finish #3 in the division again, and then risk losing them for nothing.?
My guess is if you dump them then Taveras would waive the no trade and you could do a rebuilt with hopes of coming back again in 3 or 4 years.


Way to early to ask or assume or guess anything
Feb. 1, 2023 at 10:58 p.m.
#481
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Amirov Forever
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Quoting: aadoyle
Honestly I see Dubas pulling off a trade on par with what Tampa did back in 2018

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/118770


What if they go out and spend a 1st ++ for McCabe at 50% retained and Raddysh. Physical cost-controlled defensive defenseman and a young, speedy forward to bolster the depth
Feb. 1, 2023 at 11:01 p.m.
#482
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Edited Feb. 1, 2023 at 11:12 p.m.
Quoting: Nathaniel
What if they go out and spend a 1st ++ for McCabe at 50% retained and Raddysh. Physical cost-controlled defensive defenseman and a young, speedy forward to bolster the depth


Friedman reported Toronto doesnt want McCabe's cap hit and feels LA will probs be the landing spot.

And honestly looking back on my other post a trade like that would not benefit us as its clear we need multiple moves and something like that would prevent it

We need at least 3 forwards for the bottom 6 who are upgrades over what we already have

As other than Engvall with 10 goals its

Kampf 4 goals
Holmberg 5 goals
Anderson 2 goals
ZAR 5 goals
Kerfoot 7 goals
Feb. 1, 2023 at 11:11 p.m.
#483
Ovchinnikov 137
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What I do find funny with all the doom and gloom Leaf fans on Twitter tonight is, a team without Matthews:
Period 1
CF 28 CA21
SF 14 SA 12
SCF 15 SCA 8
HDCF 7 HDCA 1

Period 2
CF 14 CA 13
SF 8 SA 6
SCF 6 SCA 6
HDCF 1 HDCA 2

Period 3
CF 20 CA10
SF 16 SA 8
SCF 10 SCA 6
HDCF 4 HDCA 4


Hell, even the deserve to win o’meter is so in the Lesfs favour
Money Puck

This was a very even game in terms of chances before score effects set in, one team’s goalie was significantly better than the other. The end, move on.
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Feb. 1, 2023 at 11:20 p.m.
#484
Hakuna Matata
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
What I do find funny with all the doom and gloom Leaf fans on Twitter tonight is, a team without Matthews:
Period 1
CF 28 CA21
SF 14 SA 12
SCF 15 SCA 8
HDCF 7 HDCA 1

Period 2
CF 14 CA 13
SF 8 SA 6
SCF 6 SCA 6
HDCF 1 HDCA 2

Period 3
CF 20 CA10
SF 16 SA 8
SCF 10 SCA 6
HDCF 4 HDCA 4


Hell, even the deserve to win o’meter is so in the Lesfs favour
Money Puck

This was a very even game in terms of chances before score effects set in, one team’s goalie was significantly better than the other. The end, move on.


Stats really try to make a bad loss look good dont they

I just use the eye test and its evident we need a new bottom 6. And yea few squeaked by sammy but still man Boston's depth came to play ours ew
Feb. 1, 2023 at 11:26 p.m.
#485
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Quoting: aadoyle
Stats really try to make a bad loss look good dont they

I just use the eye test and its evident we need a new bottom 6. And yea few squeaked by sammy but still man Boston's depth came to play ours ew


Please don’t confuse this with something I’m happy about. It’s been clear since the fukcin summer, they need to upgrade on Holl and Kerfoot. Plain and simple.

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
2LW-Tavares-Nylander
3LW-3C-Jarnkrok
Engvall-Kampf-4RW

Rielly-1RD
Giordano-Brodie
Sandin-Liljegren

Are we going to get all this, probably not. But if they hope to compete against TBL and BOS, that is what is needed IMO.

But they actually played well tonight especially without their best player. Samsonov needs to be better
Feb. 2, 2023 at 12:10 a.m.
#486
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Edited Feb. 2, 2023 at 1:01 a.m.
Quoting: MatthewsFan
Please don’t confuse this with something I’m happy about. It’s been clear since the fukcin summer, they need to upgrade on Holl and Kerfoot. Plain and simple.

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
2LW-Tavares-Nylander
3LW-3C-Jarnkrok
Engvall-Kampf-4RW

Rielly-1RD
Giordano-Brodie
Sandin-Liljegren

Are we going to get all this, probably not. But if they hope to compete against TBL and BOS, that is what is needed IMO.

But they actually played well tonight especially without their best player. Samsonov needs to be better


Honestly I dont see the need for 2LW as Jarnkrok has been fine focus assets on the bottom 6 and maybe a top 4 Dman

And gonna need to see more but against teams like Boston if Sandin-Liligren cant get it together idk if we will see it come playoffs. Broadcast even made a note of it

Still to me its

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Jarnkrok-Tavares-Nylander
?-?-?
Holmberg-Kampf-Engvall

Rielly-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren
Sandin-?
Feb. 2, 2023 at 2:27 p.m.
#487
average joe
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Quoting: aadoyle
Way to early to ask or assume or guess anything


Currently Leafs have 45% chance of winning round 1. 40% chance of winning round 2. 50% chance of winning round 3 and 50% chance of winning Cup. That's a 4.5% chance of winning cup.

Say they make a bunch of trades, maybe the above increases to 50%, 45%, 55%, 55% - or a total of 6.8%. Is it worth trading the future for that extra 2% chance?
Maybe if you have 4 more kicks at the can, you would do it. If you suspect 2 of your stars would leave and give you only one more chance, maybe it's not that worth it.
Do you really want to pay those 2 stars $6M more next year - meaning your 3rd and 4th line would get even weaker.
Or do you stay status quo, or even change one of your starts - if the offer is right.
I don't think this can be dismissed.
Feb. 2, 2023 at 3:03 p.m.
#488
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Edited Feb. 2, 2023 at 3:35 p.m.
Quoting: Messier99
Currently Leafs have 45% chance of winning round 1. 40% chance of winning round 2. 50% chance of winning round 3 and 50% chance of winning Cup. That's a 4.5% chance of winning cup.

Say they make a bunch of trades, maybe the above increases to 50%, 45%, 55%, 55% - or a total of 6.8%. Is it worth trading the future for that extra 2% chance?
Maybe if you have 4 more kicks at the can, you would do it. If you suspect 2 of your stars would leave and give you only one more chance, maybe it's not that worth it.
Do you really want to pay those 2 stars $6M more next year - meaning your 3rd and 4th line would get even weaker.
Or do you stay status quo, or even change one of your starts - if the offer is right.
I don't think this can be dismissed.


Percentages are void in February. We havent even had the TDL to go oh they got/dont got a chance yet

As I said before way to early and would not use conjecture to back things up as its all WHAT IF and WHAT IF really isnt good to use in an argument

Like what if Leafs got Connor McDavid and never traded for this guy and this guy its silly.

This is why what ifs, percentages and stats ruin hockey these days

As if we go by % Toronto should have beat Boston last night lul
Feb. 2, 2023 at 5:37 p.m.
#489
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CJ saying that someone he trusts who has good insight into the Leafs plans, though isn't a part of the FO, seems to think it likely that the bigger swing will be on D... grimace

Hope he's wrong
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Feb. 2, 2023 at 5:58 p.m.
#490
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
CJ saying that someone he trusts who has good insight into the Leafs plans, though isn't a part of the FO, seems to think it likely that the bigger swing will be on D... grimace

Hope he's wrong


Yah, it's incredibly obvious that what the leafs need is a top 6 forward (or maybe 3rd line centre). NOT A D. Unless it's a star defenseman that will upgrade the top 4, I don't want another defenseman
Feb. 2, 2023 at 5:59 p.m.
#491
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Quoting: Messier99
Time to ask the question?
Let's assume that Leafs lose in the first round (not a huge stretch).
Leafs try negotiating an extension for Matthews and Nylander:
- Matthews tells Leafs he want 8 x $14M.
- Nylander wants 8x$10M
(both have not shown much goodwill towards Leafs management during negotiations in the past, so maybe not an extreme assumption).
So the question is - do you trade them in the off-season? Who/what could you expect to get?
OR
Do you go in to one more season with the same stars in the line-up and likely be expected to finish #3 in the division again, and then risk losing them for nothing.?
My guess is if you dump them then Taveras would waive the no trade and you could do a rebuilt with hopes of coming back again in 3 or 4 years.


Let's start with "What a player wants". kinda meaningless. What he will sign for is the question.

I've never worried about losing UFAs for nothing. Teams do it all the time, heck contending teams even trade for UFAs at TDL knowing they will be not be resigned.

Here's my thought....The Leafs will keep Nylander, Matthews and Brodie at least till trade TDL. Leafs management will determine if they want to go with the same group for the 2024 playoffs or as you suggest, kinda tear it down for the second half of 2024 and get good futures for those three players. ( I prefer trading them)
IMO, there isn't much a chance Matthews and Nylander stay as Leafs in 2024/25. So the Leafs new GM ( I hope) can spend the new found cap wisely.

IMO, Matthews goes to big US market....the Kings where he replaces Kopitar. I don't think the rebuild necessarily takes that long. If there is solid pipeline of young players in place, then the Leafs will spend on UFA or RFAs. Tavares and Marner due to their cap are tough deals to make except for maybe the 2025 TDL.
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Feb. 2, 2023 at 6:29 p.m.
#492
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Anyone got a recent stats card for Colton Sissons as the last report on him was from 2019

And as to why

Exploring him as a 3c Candidate
Feb. 2, 2023 at 7:24 p.m.
#493
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Amirov Forever
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Quoting: aadoyle
Anyone got a recent stats card for Colton Sissons as the last report on him was from 2019

And as to why

Exploring him as a 3c Candidate


Screenshot_20230202-192315_Sheets.jpg
Feb. 2, 2023 at 7:25 p.m.
#494
Hakuna Matata
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Quoting: Nathaniel
vtMcgEduHck16a5t5


Gotta love modern tech errors lul

Cant see it

Just post the link
Feb. 2, 2023 at 7:26 p.m.
#495
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Amirov Forever
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Quoting: aadoyle
Gotta love modern tech errors lul

Cant see it

Just post the link


My bad haha. Fixed it
Feb. 2, 2023 at 7:30 p.m.
#496
Hakuna Matata
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Edited Feb. 2, 2023 at 7:36 p.m.
Quoting: Nathaniel
Screenshot_20230202-192315_Sheets.jpg


This is one of those charts I go huh to

As hes got 7 goals 11 assist and is a +10 on a struggling Nashville team

Feels weird.

Dam was thinking like Tolvanen he could be a good candidate for a change of scenery
Feb. 3, 2023 at 2:55 p.m.
#497
Ovchinnikov 137
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Anyone else think Sandin days as a Leaf numbered? A lot of Jake McCabe noise
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Feb. 3, 2023 at 3:24 p.m.
#498
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
Anyone else think Sandin days as a Leaf numbered? A lot of Jake McCabe noise


I personally think they'd try McCabe as an RD more than anything.

Rielly - McCabe
Sandin - Brodie
Giordano - Liljegren
Timmins

I think Holl gets moved, I just can't see Sandin being moved unless it's as part of a Timo Meier sized trade
Feb. 3, 2023 at 3:25 p.m.
#499
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
Anyone else think Sandin days as a Leaf numbered? A lot of Jake McCabe noise


I think McCabe can play both sides. Listed as such on here, anyway.
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Feb. 3, 2023 at 3:33 p.m.
#500
Ovchinnikov 137
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Quoting: Nathaniel
I personally think they'd try McCabe as an RD more than anything.

Rielly - McCabe
Sandin - Brodie
Giordano - Liljegren
Timmins

I think Holl gets moved, I just can't see Sandin being moved unless it's as part of a Timo Meier sized trade


Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
I think McCabe can play both sides. Listed as such on here, anyway.


I feel two things are certain: Justin Holl is going nowhere and I give it a 60% chance Wayne Simmonds is on the roster game one.

I just have a feeling Sandin has never been the in the Leafs long term plans. Morgan Rielly is going nowhere (FML) and they had started the season with the intention of having a healthy Muzzin.

I love Sandin and would love him in this roster, especially over Rielly, but without a true shutdown D, it’s hard to place Sandin. His game is too similar to Rielly’s.

I have a feeling we might see:

Rielly Brodie
McCabe Liljegren
Giordano Holl

Sandin + Kerfoot moved up upgrades at forward
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