Take out Karlsson and it’s closer

Compare this to Grier's reported ask of three (3) 1sts for Karlsson at max 18% retention. Sure Grier's ask is nutty but this offer is nutty in the opposite direction

Even Ranger fans don't deserve the garbage Laf trades....the kid will be fine, he just won't be a superstar

This one is gonna be Bloody

Give me the stuff you smoke

Honestly don't mind this. Altho I don't think the Rags need another LD... and i truly believe ppl (on this site most especially) will be surprised at how good of a pro Sean Farrell is going to be.

Habs don't touch either of those trades with the train track distance between these cities

Grier immediately debunked that "report" as absolutely bogus.

didn't know he totally debunked it

A 1st in 3 drafts and fluff for the leading Norris candidate, habs fans are so biased man

look at that contract. You can't even hope for 3 first.

The leading Norris candidate shouldn’t be Karlsson. Dude is a black hole on defense.

https://twitter.com/jfreshhockey/status/1618300047631978498?s=46&t=d_Dq5Ew7WHLYJRyvfSswZw

https://twitter.com/jfreshhockey/status/1617956883905794048?s=46&t=d_Dq5Ew7WHLYJRyvfSswZw

And dude is on pace to do something a defenseman hasn’t done in 30 years, score 100 points

Ok? He is still a minus player due to his lack of a defensive game. Meanwhile you have multiple players at a point per game pace (or just around it) that are +15 or more. Realistically, Dahlin and Fox should be the leaders rn. Lindholm/Dunn/McAvoy should be up there but not necessarily top 3. All play over 22m a game, +18 or more, and over .66ppg (with fox & dahlin at a point per game or more).

The last defenseman to win the Norris trophy with a negative +/- was Lidstrom in 2010-11, and before that was Rob Black in 1997-98. It just doesn't happen often. Yes putting up 100 points is great, the last defenseman to do that was Leech when he won. But he was also +25. Before that it was Coffey who was +61 (insane) in 1985-86.

I am not saying Karlsson isn't a good player, he is. He just isn't the best overall defenseman in the game as the definition states. When he actually won his two norris trophies, he was +7 and +16 while just under a point per game. In 2015-16 he got 2nd, he had 82 in 82 but was -2 and still lost to Doughty who only had 51 points in 82 games but was +24.

Come on, he’s on one of the worst teams in the league which has a -40 goal differential. Karlsson is also currently sitting at -5 but has been on the ice for 11 empty net goals. So the bull +/- argument is useless.

His defensive metrics are not though. They are all much worse than those players I listed. I don't like the +/- stat for the same reason you posted, it's just the easiest to point to. The fact that only two players in the last 25 years have won with a negative +/- (and who those players were) just speaks to how hard it is to win the Norris being a negative player.

Personally, I have him 3rd/4th right now basically due to his offense.

1/2) Fox & Dahlin - Both play great on both sides of the puck. Make a huge difference in their team performance. Play 25+m a night and play in all situations. These are your best OVERALL defenseman (both sides here, offense AND defense)
3/4) Karlsson & Lindholm -- Kinda polar opposites here, Karlsson is great offensively but a hole defensively, Lindholm is probably one of the tops on the defensive side +34 and chipping in at a reasonable rate offensively.

5-10 is a assortment of McAvoy, Hamilton, Morrissey, Makar, Dunn and Chychrun.