Absolutely not to Hartman for Holl.

In what world do you think besides trolling your cap dump is getting Hartman?

Agreed. Hartman for his production and cap hit is easily a 2023 1st plus...... has completely come into his own in Minny.

Holl isn’t a cap dump. He’s playing over 20 mins a night a better defensive team than Minnesota. Like I said Dumba is more than likely being traded as Minnesota needs cost controlled assets to support their core with the Parise and Suter buyouts. Dumba will provide that but Minnesota as have contending ambitions.

No Dumba trade will bring back a dman as a team trading for Dumba needs a dman. It’ll bring back younger cost controlled forwards that’ll push Hartman down the lineup.

Also Hartman is having a down year in comparison to his production last year. His value isn’t like Hagels

He maybe having a down year in comparison to last, amd Holl has been solid, but a pending UFA isn't landing Hartman...... on pace for a 40-50 point t season, and at $1.7 million that remains a huge bargain.

But Minnesota also have Addison in year 2. Holl is there to help with Minny cup ambitions. It a win-win trade as Minny gets what they need for a hopefully long playoff run and Toronto get a player to play on their 3rd line which Hartman will be slotted to play against Tampa or the Bruins.

Niemala Alone doesn’t get Laughton, and while Laughton isn’t a superstar he gets more than that, especially because hes signed long term and for good value.

Niemala is still a maybe/prospect

Even if we are working from the assumption Holl extends in Minny, this deal falls short. And does a Dumba deal (a second assumption) replace Hartman's production at that cap hit?

I like Holl, but I also know he isn't enough to land Hartman straight up.....

Even then, Guerin can just as easily wait until the offseasin and throw Holl a contract and keep Hartman.

You are seriously underselling Hartman here..... I am a Leafs fan telling you you are underselling Hartman. That has to say something.

Gubranson buyout is 6 years not 4. It doesn’t make sense for an organization to buyout a contract only signed a year ago.

Peeke probably is your Best defensive dman but if that was the case why would you commit to Gubranson and not commit to other options available on the market that were cheaper. From a standpoint of managing your assets it makes no sense to draft 2 RHD dman in the past 2 draft with a 1st rounders and then trade for one and sign him to a 3 year extension and then sign another one in free agency to a 4 year deal.

The best way to navigate this is to trade your best assets to acquire more draft capital as CBJ no where near the the playoffs in the east or will be for at least 2-3 years. Hold onto Gubranson and either buy him on his last year or trade him with half retention then and aim to be competitive by year 4.

As for Boquist I overspoke saying teams won’t be intrested in him but trading Boquist is a huge loss for CBJ. Y’all need Boquist to become at minimum a top 4 dman as it shows Columbus has not been able to develop any kind of potential quality NHLers. Both Johnson and Sillinger has stalled out and now Boquist.

Niemela is one the best D prospects. His production hasn’t been the same as last year but his overall has improved. Last year he had more o-zone starts in Karpat and this years he’s playing as their number 1 dman and plays in all zones.

Plus it’s an organizational need for Philly. They don’t really have any RHD prospects upcoming.

While you’re right and I’d prefer to get Niemela back for Laughton, I think the flyers just straight do not want to trade Laughton, not only is he having a solid year, but he’s the only flyers with a letter right now, he’s probably very important in the locker room right now so I’d think the only way he’s traded is if it’s an offer they literally cannot turn down

Hartman is perfect fit which is why I want him. Throwing a line of Laughton-Holmberg-Hartman against any team 2nd line would be a nightmare to play against. Then throw the Kampf line against the top line would be perfect for the playoffs.

To your point I don’t see Holl being signed in the off-season. Liek I said the cap buyouts will hinder Minny ability which is why prospect development is Dumba being traded for prospects makes sense. Ottawa would part with a lot for a dman like Dumba, same with the Oilers and etc.

I do agree tho we will probably give more than Holl. Maybe Holl and 2024 2nd?

I can see that perspective. Laughton is gonna get Goodrow/Coleman like package. Maybe we give back another prospect like Abramov?

Holl is not a target for us. Faber is expected to sign after the NCAA season and play right away at the NHL level.

So replacing Dumba with Faber on a cup contending team is the plan?

That’s like us Leaf fans expecting Knies to play top 6 mins right away. Knies will need time to adjust to the NHL pace like Faber

I would say your looking at Holl and a Hirvonen/Robertson minimum. Something close to if not NHL ready. And if a Dumba deal is contigent on a Hartman deal, then looking at a 3-way maybe the way to go, where a Roberston or Hirvonen may have more value to a rebuilding team willing to move a player for a change of scenery or something more to Minny's liking.

Hartman's value in the Minny lineup is huge. His contract value is huge. Guerin isn't giving him away for a rental in Holl, and a 2nd probably doesn't cut it.

And a line of Engvall-Laughton-Hartman is way more attractive than what you propose. That line is big, it hits and can score. That is a 3rd line not many would want to deal with.

It’s a better plan than trading Hartman, a player with a contract for next year, for a pending UFA we don’t need. If you want Hartman so bad, offer a 1st+ for him. Try to think of our needs realistically. Not moving swapping one rental (Dumba) out for another (Holl).

Dumba probably isn’t going to be traded. If he is, it makes no sense to swap in another “rental” type player into his spot.

Trading Dumba for another rental is not managing your assets. Selling Dumba for almost NHL ready prospects on ELCs is the smartest thing to do with the cap constraints Minny has.

If you were to trade Dumba there 100% a move on the back end happening. Also you don’t give Holl credit as he is playing top 4 mins on a top 3 defensive team in the league.

I ****ing hate that you're sitting here trying to convince me to take Holl. Please stop. We don't want him. We don't need him. Keep him for your own playoff run if he's so damn good. JFC.

Partly true, (Samson and Attard are their best 2 RD, and both are looking real good, but they have Andrae, York, Zamula, etc... at LD and one of them might be converted. York is playing RD right now and deangelo, ristolinen are signed beyond this year at RD, and their entire defense is 28 yrs old or less), so its not like they are desperate to move an above average NHLer for a prospect, even if youre a true believer in Niemala.

Its also the type of game and player is, Laughton is worth that and more, he is a goodrow/coleman type player, but signed at a good rate for multiple years unlike those 2, and PHI doesn;t have to sell him, his contract/age fit in well with a rebuild/re-tool/etc... Along with Koneckny, PHI would have to be wow'ed by an offer. And thats not it.

I think TOR would have to add a substantial piece or 2, 2024 2nd or a upper midlevel prospect like a Steeves or Robertson. And even then you're counting on PHI really NEEDING Niemala