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Its ok to trade Knies

Created by: rgwhite17
Team: 2022-23 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Feb. 1, 2023
Published: Feb. 1, 2023
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
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In my opinion you move knies in a deal for Meier no question. There’s no guarantees with prospects, if they wanna get through Tampa and Boston small adds won’t do.
At least Meier comes with the possibility of getting an asset back at the draft. Or trade someone else so there’s money to sign him, would depend how the playoffs go I assume.

If McCabe can be had with retention for a first I think you jump on that as well.

2 firsts and top prospects gone but not for rentals. I don’t think you need to worry about the off season or next season right now but these moves leave flexibility to get assets back later depending how things go.
Free Agent Signings
RESERVE LISTYEARSCAP HIT
3$800,000
Trades
1.
TOR
  1. Bonino, Nick
  2. Meier, Timo ($3,000,000 retained)
SJS
  1. Hirvonen, Roni
  2. Kerfoot, Alexander
  3. Knies, Matthew
  4. 2023 1st round pick (TOR)
Additional Details:
Kerfoot can go somewhere else, doesn’t matter. Just needs to be moved
2.
TOR
  1. McCabe, Jake ($2,000,000 retained)
CHI
  1. Der-Arguchintsev, Semyon
  2. 2024 1st round pick (TOR)
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2023
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2024
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the OTT
2025
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$82,500,000$75,698,746$212,500$0$6,801,254
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$0$0
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,640,250$11,640,250
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$950,000$950,000
LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$10,903,000$10,903,000
RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,100,000$2,100,000
RW, C, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$1,025,000$1,025,000
C, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$840,630$840,630
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,500,000$1,500,000
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$827,500$827,500
C, LW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$900,000$900,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$7,500,000$7,500,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 8
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD/RD
NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,687,500$4,687,500
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$0$0
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,800,000$1,800,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,400,000$1,400,000
LD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,400,000$1,400,000
RD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$800,000$800,000
LD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,000,000$2,000,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,625,000$5,625,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$796,667$796,667
LW, RW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$750,000$750,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1

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Feb. 1, 2023 at 4:14 p.m.
#1
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Sure, you can flip Meier but there's still going to be a 2L hole to fill. So if you move Knies, maybe it's best to keep the 2023 1st and move the 2024 one if possible.

McCabe won't play over Holl, if they get someone it will be to play over Sandin and for that they really only need a cost efficient rental.
Feb. 1, 2023 at 4:17 p.m.
#2
Torresing
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Quoting: GMBL
Sure, you can flip Meier but there's still going to be a 2L hole to fill. So if you move Knies, maybe it's best to keep the 2023 1st and move the 2024 one if possible.

McCabe won't play over Holl, if they get someone it will be to play over Sandin and for that they really only need a cost efficient rental.


Sharks would take the 2024 1st if they're getting Knies I would think.
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Feb. 1, 2023 at 4:18 p.m.
#3
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Quoting: sleeparc
Sharks would take the 2024 1st if they're getting Knies I would think.


Actually just thinking it probably be better for the leafs to trade 2023 and 2024 first for Meier and keep knies so you have your prospect that is closer to making an impact. Would that be close to getting a deal done? Or has to be knies?
Feb. 1, 2023 at 4:21 p.m.
#4
Torresing
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Quoting: rgwhite17
Actually just thinking it probably be better for the leafs to trade 2023 and 2024 first for Meier and keep knies so you have your prospect that is closer to making an impact. Would that be close to getting a deal done? Or has to be knies?


Toronto doesn't have many interesting pieces outside of Knies. Niemela is 'ok' but he is not a high level prospect.
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Feb. 1, 2023 at 4:22 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: sleeparc
Toronto doesn't have many interesting pieces outside of Knies. Niemela is 'ok' but he is not a high level prospect.


I agree. I’d move knies and 24 first if it has to be that. Great for both teams.
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Feb. 1, 2023 at 4:23 p.m.
#6
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The question is if that offer is enough to beat some of the other offers out there. We all know the Devils could offer a deal around Holtz and it's next to impossible to beat so I'll use a different example from a team I also think will push hard for Meier. The Hurricanes. Lets say the Canes offer a deal around one Morrow or Nikishin + like one of Koivunen/Suzuki/Gunler/Rees/Drury/Heimosalmi as the base, along with a 1st ofc. That's at least on par with your offer
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Feb. 1, 2023 at 4:26 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
The question is if that offer is enough to beat some of the other offers out there. We all know the Devils could offer a deal around Holtz and it's next to impossible to beat so I'll use a different example from a team I also think will push hard for Meier. The Hurricanes. Lets say the Canes offer a deal around one Morrow or Nikishin + like one of Koivunen/Suzuki/Gunler/Rees/Drury/Heimosalmi as the base, along with a 1st ofc. That's at least on par with your offer


For sure ya I can agree. As a fan right now I’m just hoping if the leafs don’t get Meier it’s reported afterwards they had a top offer but it was just beat out. It will be very frustrating if it’s reported Meier to the leafs would have happened but they wouldn’t include knies.
Feb. 1, 2023 at 4:28 p.m.
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Quoting: rgwhite17
For sure ya I can agree. As a fan right now I’m just hoping if the leafs don’t get Meier it’s reported afterwards they had a top offer but it was just beat out. It will be very frustrating if it’s reported Meier to the leafs would have happened but they wouldn’t include knies.


I don't think Meier is the right target for them personally. I think the Matthews injury will help them realize that their center depth is really questionable if one of the top 2 goes down. I think they should target ROR and move Tavares to the wing for this playoff run
Feb. 1, 2023 at 4:31 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: rgwhite17
For sure ya I can agree. As a fan right now I’m just hoping if the leafs don’t get Meier it’s reported afterwards they had a top offer but it was just beat out. It will be very frustrating if it’s reported Meier to the leafs would have happened but they wouldn’t include knies.


Grier said a bunch of teams have asked about Timo. Toronto, Boston, NJ, Buf, and Carolina are all rumored to be kicking tires. Being Grier's first major trade, you can bet he doesn't want to lose it and is waiting for the best offer possible. Grier said whatever the offer it has to be one that makes SJ speed up their rebuild so I would assume the main piece has to be someone that is very close to NHL ready if not ready now and will make an impact in SJ in the near future, not in 2-4 years.
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Feb. 1, 2023 at 4:34 p.m.
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
I don't think Meier is the right target for them personally. I think the Matthews injury will help them realize that their center depth is really questionable if one of the top 2 goes down. I think they should target ROR and move Tavares to the wing for this playoff run


Im not sure on that, they have had injuries to both matthews and JT in the regular season and playoffs since trading Kadri and haven’t really looked to add another big time centre. ROR would be nice too if the price is right, more afraid he could be another foligno situation, taken a step back and just not healthy enough to make an impact.

I’d have to do it but pretty sure they have the cap to fit both assuming muzzin isn’t back and there’s retention. Sending out kerfoot and getting Meier half retained saves cap space even.
Feb. 1, 2023 at 4:37 p.m.
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Quoting: sleeparc
Grier said a bunch of teams have asked about Timo. Toronto, Boston, NJ, Buf, and Carolina are all rumored to be kicking tires. Being Grier's first major trade, you can bet he doesn't want to lose it and is waiting for the best offer possible. Grier said whatever the offer it has to be one that makes SJ speed up their rebuild so I would assume the main piece has to be someone that is very close to NHL ready if not ready now and will make an impact in SJ in the near future, not in 2-4 years.


Makes sense. So have to be knies. Feel like the leafs wont be aggressive enough and get outbid but I can hope anyways.
Feb. 1, 2023 at 4:39 p.m.
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Quoting: sleeparc
Toronto doesn't have many interesting pieces outside of Knies. Niemela is 'ok' but he is not a high level prospect.


This is a dangerous thing to say on Capfriendly. The standard TOR fan thinks they have (4) Bedards, (2) Makars, and a Dominik Hasak (in his prime) currently playing on the Marlies.
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Feb. 1, 2023 at 4:39 p.m.
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
I don't think Meier is the right target for them personally. I think the Matthews injury will help them realize that their center depth is really questionable if one of the top 2 goes down. I think they should target ROR and move Tavares to the wing for this playoff run


Quoting: rgwhite17
Im not sure on that, they have had injuries to both matthews and JT in the regular season and playoffs since trading Kadri and haven’t really looked to add another big time centre. ROR would be nice too if the price is right, more afraid he could be another foligno situation, taken a step back and just not healthy enough to make an impact.

I’d have to do it but pretty sure they have the cap to fit both assuming muzzin isn’t back and there’s retention. Sending out kerfoot and getting Meier half retained saves cap space even.


I think Toews is a very good affordable option for the Leafs to go after. He's #1 at the dot, plays good defense, and has all the leadership skills in the lockeroom with 3 cups and a bunch of other awards to back it up.
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Feb. 1, 2023 at 4:41 p.m.
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Quoting: exo2769
This is a dangerous thing to say on Capfriendly. TOR fans think they have (4) Bedards, (2) Makars, and a Dominik Hasak (in his prime) currently playing on the Marlies.


LoL so true. Every fan tends to overrate their prospects a bit, but with some Leafs fans you'd think these prospects are their own flesh and blood.
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Feb. 1, 2023 at 4:43 p.m.
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Quoting: sleeparc
Toronto doesn't have many interesting pieces outside of Knies. Niemela is 'ok' but he is not a high level prospect.


And Robertson's value has tanked with the multiple injuries he's endured. Knies, Robertson and Niemela were their top prospects in that order, but Robertson's value is now behind Niemla for sure and Niemela as you said is a good but far from great or top prospect.
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Feb. 1, 2023 at 4:56 p.m.
#16
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Quoting: sleeparc
Toronto doesn't have many interesting pieces outside of Knies. Niemela is 'ok' but he is not a high level prospect.


I think that is entirely false. I think too many fans want a prospect to be a potential star or they are a bust. Niemela certainly isn't going to be a star but what he will be is a solid 2 way defenceman. He's going to be a guy who makes zone entries very hard and is a strong skater who will get back ahead of the forecheck and turn it up ice quick. He's also top level in the hockey sense department. I think he's going to be a guy who will score 30 points in his best offensive seasons but always is great defensively. He's going to be very similar to Brodie in my estimation.

Minten is another "nothing special" prospect, or at least that's how many view him. Which is fine by me, he's in my humble opinion the best prospect the Leafs have. He's already NHL level defensively and his offence is growing big time. I think he's going to be a Selke candidate middle 6 centre who'll score 40-60 points regularly.

I think everyone loves Knies so much because he's big and his ceiling is extremely high, but I also think his floor is much lower than a guy like Minten. He could be a 3rd liner scoring 15 goals a season while hitting people but not accomplishing much else.
Feb. 1, 2023 at 4:58 p.m.
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Quoting: exo2769
This is a dangerous thing to say on Capfriendly. The standard TOR fan thinks they have (4) Bedards, (2) Makars, and a Dominik Hasak (in his prime) currently playing on the Marlies.


Aren't you on here saying both Murphy and McCabe are elite defensively? Because Knies is closer to Bedard than either of those guys are to being great defensively.
Feb. 1, 2023 at 5:03 p.m.
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I feel like it would be better for the Sharks to grab a solid D prospect and drop the '23 1st to a '24 1st as if TOR is getting Timo then they have a great shot at winning the cup this year. Think about adding Sandin and dropping Hirvonen as the Sharks would need something a little more due to the pick being 24 instead of 23 with perceived 23 pick having more value due to deeper draft.
Feb. 1, 2023 at 5:10 p.m.
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Quoting: ChiHawk
I think Toews is a very good affordable option for the Leafs to go after. He's #1 at the dot, plays good defense, and has all the leadership skills in the lockeroom with 3 cups and a bunch of other awards to back it up.


Toews actually seems like a better choice than ROR. Cheaper to trade for it sounds like, if they have the cap space it makes a lot of sense.
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Feb. 1, 2023 at 5:22 p.m.
#20
exo2769
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Quoting: RipNasty
Aren't you on here saying both Murphy and McCabe are elite defensively? Because Knies is closer to Bedard than either of those guys are to being great defensively.


I don't think I've ever claimed Murphy McCabe are elite. I've watched Duncan Keith paired with Seabrook. I know an elite pair when I see it. I've definitely said McCabe's playing great and worth a closer look. He gets a bad wrap because of the system Jeremy Coliton implemented. So people look at his last year stats and choose to ignore why somethings so drastically changed and just claim fluke without looking into any details what so ever. I've also said he's a 1st Pair Dman for the Hawks, BUT not for a cup winning team. With that said it's still a good sign to have a guy capable of those minutes while playing well so he'd be a better option for 2nd/3rd pair role than alot of what's out there. IMO. And I've also said the Hawks should retain on McCabe.

Murphy is playing better than Seth Jones and more physical. He's the Ole steady. I could see him fit well in Buffalo. A lot of high end talent than could use a physical stalwart that's reliable.

I like those two, yes, BUT I don't think I've ever called either of them elite or ever used Norris in the same sentence with maybe a technical exception to say that they'll never be Norris caliber.
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Feb. 1, 2023 at 6:08 p.m.
#21
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Quoting: exo2769
I don't think I've ever claimed Murphy McCabe are elite. I've watched Duncan Keith paired with Seabrook. I know an elite pair when I see it. I've definitely said McCabe's playing great and worth a closer look. He gets a bad wrap because of the system Jeremy Coliton implemented. So people look at his last year stats and choose to ignore why somethings so drastically changed and just claim fluke without looking into any details what so ever. I've also said he's a 1st Pair Dman for the Hawks, BUT not for a cup winning team. With that said it's still a good sign to have a guy capable of those minutes while playing well so he'd be a better option for 2nd/3rd pair role than alot of what's out there. IMO. And I've also said the Hawks should retain on McCabe.

Murphy is playing better than Seth Jones and more physical. He's the Ole steady. I could see him fit well in Buffalo. A lot of high end talent than could use a physical stalwart that's reliable.

I like those two, yes, BUT I don't think I've ever called either of them elite or ever used Norris in the same sentence with maybe a technical exception to say that they'll never be Norris caliber.


Alright, fair enough.

As for the statement about all leaf fans thinking every prospect is Bedard. There are those fans sure. But not all of us.

At this stage of the Matthews era, they don't have any sure fire superstars. Knies very well could be a star but I am not 100% sold on him personally. I think he's an NHLer for sure but perhaps not a star. Beyond that, I think TO has a lot of prospect that can be developed into good NHLers, not stars but solid enough players and those guys are worth having. They do have some guys who certainly could be something special. Voit certainly looks like he could be something if he continues to develop. He's small but man is he skilled and the way he plays isn't going to make it harder for him in the NHL. Unlike Robertson who I think TO missed the prime opportunity to trade. Not that he isn't going to be a decent player, potentially a very good one but not in TO. He should be a guy who gets top PP time and more offensive opportunities where he can be the trigger man. Unfortunately in TO he's not going to find that fit. He's too small to be effective as the primary forechecker on lines 1 and 2 and he's just not equipped to be effective on the low event, defence first bottom 6 TO likes to employ.

The real gem in my opinion is Minten. Already higher end NHL defensive play from centre and his offence is starting to take off. I see him being like Kampf but much better offensively. More than anyone else, he's the guy I think will be a great addition.

Amirov will hopefully beat cancer and then who knows what he's going to be, but when he was healthy, I sure liked his game. Solid all over the ice, crazy good skater and decent enough size. Sees the ice so so well. Could really be a diamond in the rough down the road but cancer is a ****.
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Feb. 1, 2023 at 7:04 p.m.
#22
exo2769
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Quoting: RipNasty
Alright, fair enough.

As for the statement about all leaf fans thinking every prospect is Bedard. There are those fans sure. But not all of us.

At this stage of the Matthews era, they don't have any sure fire superstars. Knies very well could be a star but I am not 100% sold on him personally. I think he's an NHLer for sure but perhaps not a star. Beyond that, I think TO has a lot of prospect that can be developed into good NHLers, not stars but solid enough players and those guys are worth having. They do have some guys who certainly could be something special. Voit certainly looks like he could be something if he continues to develop. He's small but man is he skilled and the way he plays isn't going to make it harder for him in the NHL. Unlike Robertson who I think TO missed the prime opportunity to trade. Not that he isn't going to be a decent player, potentially a very good one but not in TO. He should be a guy who gets top PP time and more offensive opportunities where he can be the trigger man. Unfortunately in TO he's not going to find that fit. He's too small to be effective as the primary forechecker on lines 1 and 2 and he's just not equipped to be effective on the low event, defence first bottom 6 TO likes to employ.

The real gem in my opinion is Minten. Already higher end NHL defensive play from centre and his offence is starting to take off. I see him being like Kampf but much better offensively. More than anyone else, he's the guy I think will be a great addition.

Amirov will hopefully beat cancer and then who knows what he's going to be, but when he was healthy, I sure liked his game. Solid all over the ice, crazy good skater and decent enough size. Sees the ice so so well. Could really be a diamond in the rough down the road but cancer is a ****.


I think you're a much more knowledgeable and reasonable Leafs fan. We might have a different view on any random given situation, but I know you know your stuff.

Also, heck yes for Amirov. I'm cheering for him!
Feb. 1, 2023 at 7:23 p.m.
#23
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Quoting: exo2769
I think you're a much more knowledgeable and reasonable Leafs fan. We might have a different view on any random given situation, but I know you know your stuff.

Also, heck yes for Amirov. I'm cheering for him!


I try to be as objective as I can but we all have a bias. This was a good chat. Cheers my friend
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Feb. 1, 2023 at 7:41 p.m.
#24
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Quoting: RipNasty

The real gem in my opinion is Minten. Already higher end NHL defensive play from centre and his offence is starting to take off. I see him being like Kampf but much better offensively. More than anyone else, he's the guy I think will be a great addition.


Yeah, Minten is definitely not a guy they should be trading. I think Dubas drafted Minten as a potential 2C replacement (if they can get his offensive game where it needs to be) for Tavares or in the case Tavares becomes the 1C.

I use to say Niemela should be kept but with them having Timmins now, who can probably fill a top 4 role sooner rather than later, I wouldn't be too worried about missing out there even if Topi ends up being more than just a solid top 4 D.
Feb. 1, 2023 at 7:55 p.m.
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Quoting: GMBL
Yeah, Minten is definitely not a guy they should be trading. I think Dubas drafted Minten as a potential 2C replacement (if they can get his offensive game where it needs to be) for Tavares or in the case Tavares becomes the 1C.

I use to say Niemela should be kept but with them having Timmins now, who can probably fill a top 4 role sooner rather than later, I wouldn't be too worried about missing out there even if Topi ends up being more than just a solid top 4 D.


I am not heart broken if they trade Knies, Minten and Niemela just needs to be the right move. Trades for the sake of trades are not the answer. I think 2 additions are what we need. Another centre and maybe a defenceman or another winger. But they have to be players that fit the system and can fill a specific role.
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