Murray is far to erratic & cannot stay healthy.
Negative asset.

Niemela fast becoming a reclamation project.

The deferred 1st is ok on one hand.

Verdict: No

Just not realistic to expect to upgrade 4 positions, especially 3 “high value” positions in top 6 forward, top 4 D, & goal. Demko absolutely not required; Leafs committed to Murray & Samsonov for this year & no need to panic now - so far so good. Will need a 1st to land McCabe (with retention) which you’ll have from voiding demko trade. Puchnevic won’t be available (ditto for koneckny or any young top 6 forward with term) so I think Leafs have to look for vet rentals instead.
A top 4 D and a top 6W or 3C would be great adds at TDL imo.

Calling Niemela a “reclamation project” cause you’re only looking at his box scores is something. He’s a 20 year old RHD playing in a men’s league in Finland. He had a fantastic season last year by the box scores, and his underlying numbers have improved this season. His point totals have dropped but most prospect writers still consider him a top 4 ceiling, bottom pair floor prospect. He’s not an elite prospect but sure isn’t a reclamation project lol.

Yea that’s just simply not enough for Buch

I don't really think the Blues need more defensemen, they might want a forward prospect instead.

I agree the McCabe trade may require a better asset or another one. As for the rest this post isn’t what I think the leafs will do. No one knows. As I said this is what I would do if I were gm and was going to go all in. Murray has been decent this year, but if Demko is healthy he’s a top goalie in the league. He would allow us to go into a series against any team and be close to equal or better in net. There’s no reason a top 6 forward with term wouldn’t be available from somewhere, but we really don’t know. That’s why I said “if he’s available”.

It’s close for Buchnevich imo, obviously not going to be exact. Might need another prospect, idk I’m not expecting to nail the exact values. I’d understand if they preferred a forward. If that was the case the prospect would have to be Knies.

Murray has better career numbers than Demko who's numbers are actually not that great. Nearly 3 GAA and a career save percentage of .909. Hes shown flashes of being unbelievable but as many stretches of being average or below. He's also only played more than 40 games once in his career. I think Demko would be better on a better team but I also am not sure how much better. He's not as consistent as you guys like to say.

Niemela fast becoming a reclamation project is just not having any idea what the player is.

I wager he'll be an effective secondary defenceman. Much like Brodie

I actually completely agree with your assessment of Demko. When I looked at his numbers I was kinda surprised by them not being all that special. That’s why I kinda thought that might even be too much to give up and said I wouldn’t start with Niemela. I do think he’d be great with a more defensive team and good health. But as it goes with goalies that deal is definitely the biggest gamble of the 3 by far.

Hawks decline. McCabe half retained costs a 2023 1st. Only reason Hawks consider retaining is to get a 2023 1st back. No 1st, no retention. And Lafferty probably fetches a 3rd.

If they had a 1st on the table and decided to take that instead that’d be fine. In this scenario I wouldn’t be offering one. If Lafferty costs about a 3rd, that’d mean I offered a 2nd, prospect and meh young NHL ready player. So that should at least be close.. prospect can be changed like I said.

It's not close and he's not available. Pass it on.

.. Doug..? Is.. is that you?👀

Play the game then, he’s available. What’s the cost?

If Murray has neutral value then the trade is essentially Niemela and a 1st for Demko, Vancouver for sure accepts that, but Murray would need to be moved elsewhere.

Save percentage and goals against are poor statistics to quantify a goaltenders value, they are largely a reflection of the quality of the team in front of them. Vancouver has been terrible during the entire time Demko has been on the roster.

I agree it is way to early to be calling Niemela a reclamation project.

Markstrom played behind the same team and was much better and more consistent for the last couple of years before going to Calgary. Demko isn't the top flight goalie he's billed as. He's a good one but I am not sure how good.

If you are again referring to the save percentage stat their stats were actually pretty similar:
Markstrom, .910 .912 .912 .918.
Demko: .913 .905 .915 .915, I didn't count this year because he has been playing injured.

Both played very well in their only playoffs with Vancouver, but there is no question Demko was the better of the two that post season.

This is the double sided arguments that make this site so frustrating. Demko's poor play this year doesn't count because of injuries but Murray's poor play in Ottawa is because he sucks and not because the team was crap and he was hurt.

I have seen the Canucks as a below average team for a few years now so I give him a little slack. But Vancouver has supposed to be a playoff team since you succeeded in the bubble and Demko hasn't been able to lift the team into the playoffs. That doesn't mean he's a bad goalie but it does temper my opinion of him a bit. He's a goalie, they are crap shoots and after this season, I don't hold him among the elite goalies. He's a guy who could be fantastic on any given night and also not just like most guys. Murray has stolen games this year as have Samsonov. Is Demko an upgrade? Maybe but maybe he is no better. Murray has won 2 cups, he knows how to handle playoff pressure. Demko I am not sure is going to get the return you hope for. He's definitely no Shesterkin or Vasilevsky

No.

"This is the double sided arguments that make this site so frustrating. Demko's poor play this year doesn't count because of injuries but Murray's poor play in Ottawa is because he sucks and not because the team was crap and he was hurt."
- Personally I think there is a big difference between your Murray and Demko injury comparisons. Murray has not had a good statistical season since 2018-19, Demko has played 15 bad games this season... If Demko doesn't have a good statistical season (I'm not talking save percentage and GAA I'm talking expected goals against) for multiple years then you can compare the two. Also just to be clear, I never said Murray "sucked", but Vancouver shouldn't have any interest in him, they are trying to cut cap and get younger.

"Demko hasn't been able to lift the team into the playoffs."
- There was no way Demko was going to lift the Canucks to the playoffs last year that team was brutal, especially the defense. Demko was top 5 in the NHL expected goals against (which is the stat most people use to judge goalies), and the Canucks would have finished much lower in the standings than the did without him.

"Demko I am not sure is going to get the return you hope for"
- I havent stated what I believe the return would be in a Demko trade, however I don't think Demko is going to fetch the return many Canuck fans are expecting. Just like every other fan base, Vancouver fans usually over rate the return for their players.

That’s what I thought.