Why do the New Jersey trades have two 1st round picks from the same year included?

typo...second one should be a 3rd

Shengs very much freelance, he’s often got information wrong (nothing against him, I still look at/ value his stuff). But his network is the same network that was spewing nonsense about the flames and Gaudreau/ tkachuk.

I’d trust Masisak and Pashelka more (Athletic and longtime SJS coverage in the Bay Area sports group).

Masisak, Rutherford and Lebrun have all three individually in their words; confirmed through individual sources that the Blues are in on Meier with two firsts and other assets (prospects most likely). So that alone makes Shengs suggestion blown away (Bowers, a first and a 3rd).

Personally I disagree that these trades are comparable.
Meiers a better player, higher production, unique skill set (few other players like him (Rantanen being the pinnacle of the skill set modern day powerforward and Kane being a ”worse” player), and Meiers analytics are some of the strongest especially at 5on5 with a market value average of 10m. And watching the games he’s by far and away the other 50% of the Sharks offence (50% being EK65). Griers been slow playing this and to accept Stillman, a first, a 3rd would be look redundant (Severson holds little value to the Sharks imo (not that he has no market value)).

I think if you suggested earlier Holtz is off the table, I ponder what Gritysuks value is.

Yeah, I think the point I was making without directly saying....is we shouldn't take one guys view as gospel. After his first piece, which had a very unflattering take on NJD prospect pool, it seemed like SJS fans we using it as the benchmark for any trade. Then, he was asking too much. Now, too little.

I still believe there are a very wide range of outcomes here based on Meier's intentions, his QO, the tight cap, etc etc.

Loosely put...I could see anywhere from Mark Stone return to Jack Eichel return.

Just read on twitter that a deal between sharks and devils has been stalling because sharks are insistent on mercer.

A source familiar with the situation tells me that the #NJDevils continue to be in talks to acquire Timo Meier from San Jose before the March 3 deadline.

A big sticking point, I'm told, is that the Sharks continue to ask for Dawson Mercer as part of a return. From Robert Aitken Jr

I added this at the end post your quote

I think if you suggested earlier Holtz is off the table, I ponder what Gritysuks value is.

Secondly; I didn’t know he was low on the devils pool? I didn’t read it after the comparable of duchene. In terms of low on the overall pool; like being overrated. Or on specific guys (like Holtz).

Stone:
Brannstrom (if I recall at the time he was seen as a league wide top prospect? So I guess we’d use Holtz (just for convenience) as he’d rank higher than someone like Snuggeraud?)
2nd

Eichel:
Tuch
Krebs (Buffalo was super high on)
Ostlund
2nd

If we were to go in between I would say a St. Louis offer of two late firsts a prospect like Snug or Holtz + 1st does seem legitimate. If anything you could argue Ostlund Krebs 2023 2nd is better than Brannstrom (hindsight obviously helps but still) 2nd, unless we’re valuing Brannstrom at the time of trade being almost two firsts idk.

Grier killing this deal over Mercer (which is basically like asking for us for Eklund and Bords because Mercer is actually killing the NHL right now) would be about as disappointing as anything.



I’d only guess this is strategically to either somehow get Mercer and a first or when they settle on a lower price point that leads to Holtz.

eklund and bords could both be in the NHL right now but that is not the plan from upper management so I think the value is a bit off there. I appreciate this firm stance as a fan because Meier is not the kind of play you trade away unless you get something excellent in return ( better than holtz + first)

I edited my comment to include after your quote

“I’d only guess this is strategically to either somehow get Mercer and a first or when they settle on a lower price point that leads to Holtz.”

Anyways I do appreciate and it is a good move - but it could backfire/ kill NJD as a suitor. And for a proper rebuild to help Eklund and Bords it needs to begin this TDL, Wilson/ Hasso delayed it long enough.

As for Bords and Eklund; I love them and subjectively value them more than Mercer sure. But objectively Mercer is in the NHL right now; and he’s playing incredibly well and is play the game that made him so highly touted (ie hasn’t changed his game or had to be better). He’s just such a energetic player to watch. He’s a player I’ve always liked. And he’s killing it. Bords and Eklunds still have make it (and I have no doubt they will). But Mercers already dealt with nearly a full NHL calendar and hasn’t fallen off. You can’t blame a Devils fan to say Mercer > Eklund or Bords right now.

Sorry I didn't see that! I absolutely agree mercer holds a ton of value, especially for the sharks who don't have a ton of strong skaters. The reason mercer is prolly a deal breaker for the sharks is holtz value seems to have fluctuated a lot this year ie differences in Pronmans U23 list compared to HW drafter prospects list and he seems just as close to being a 3rd line player as a top line player. Add on top of that the sharks would be adding yet another clunky skater to a team that really one has 1 elite skater and two fast players in kaut and gregor. If it is a dealbreaker for NJ then I think/hope the sharks walk away from the deal and look to keep him (MeierHertlEklund) and our cap situation starts to open the year after next or find a different team to trade with.

Yeah that's unfortunate. I would be OK with deals that do not include Mercer, Hughes, Nemec. Plenty of other quality to be had. I just want something like 1st+holtz+muk to get it done.

That Cheechoo sj fan was asking hard for Mercer so maybe he's Griers secret capfriendly account

In the earlier Peng article he responded to comments and indicated his sources considered Holtz and Muk Grade B prospects and Nemec a A/B tweener in the context of a trade consisting of 1st+A or 1sr+2Bs.
That pissed off NJ fans

Gritsyuk looks fantastic. Was KHL rookie of the year last year. This year, he started off slow with an injury, but back to normal now with 25 pts in last 30 games. Some Devils fans say he is our best forward prospect (over Holtz) but has usually risks as KHLer. And unlike Mukhamadulkin, he is not signed yet (maybe this summer, with 1-year loan back to Avangard). There has been a Sharks scout recently at his games BTW.

but it is trueeeeeee

If good skating is an attribute SJS is seeking, I would look at these names as pieces

Zetterlund
Boqvist
McLeod
Filmon
Casey
Vilen
Mukhamadullin
Bardakov (more of a powerful skater)

(And I would avoid Foote, Okhotiuk and probably Salminen…all decent players, none great skaters)

First, there are standard definitions for “A” “B” grades that the league knows and scouting community uses frequently. He seems to have rewritten the definitions, so that is the first issue.

Second, to say Holtz, Nemec Mukhamadullin are B (and in other spots call Wiesblatt an A) is insulting. To both NJD fans and SJS fans. He is not giving reporting here.

I would say;

Hughes is an S prospect (easily the most desirable D prospect)
Eklund Nemec and Bords are A- to A+
Holtz I would say is B+ to A due to the difficult year and struggles
Wiesblatt is like a C at this point; I’m higher on Adam Raska than Wiesblatt lol.
Muk I wouldn’t call an A but that’s also due to not directly following him so it wouldn’t be fair to say he’s a B at best.

If Sheng would say Holtz is a B I wouldn’t be upset but Wiesblatt shouldn’t even been in the same breathe as Holtz, Nemec, Bords, Eklund. Nemec alone shouldn’t even be near Holtz/ Wiesblatt just due to that RD #1/2 potential. Nemec having top pair growth potential whereas Wiesblatts best case scenario is becoming Barabanov (who I don’t think he’ll be); so likely a 3rd liner with 30 points.

If Bordeleau and Eklund at “A”, Holtz is unquestionably “A”. And Mukhamadullin is also probably an “A”.

Hughes
Nemec
Holtz
Eklund
Mukhamadullin
Bystedt
Gritsyuk
Bordeleau
Casey
Lund

All “A”

If each Devils prospect get such low grades (only one “A” name), why are we consistently rated as top-5 prospect pool? The Athletic recently listed San Jose #17 and New Jersey #2.

I never rated any devils prospects low? Literally gave Hughes #1 league wide. I only said Holtz B+/ A for his difficult year and that I had no personal experience with Muk so I shouldn’t be allowed to rate him (which is arguably what Sheng did and just gave him a B, which is why as I said I don’t always listen to Sheng).

After researching Gritysuk I would throw him and Bystedt above Muk (but as I said loool); they both feel like they are going to keep rising. Which is why if Grier lands Gritysuk I may be happier than Holtz tbh (but that’s recency bias).

All the insider boys are harping about STL now so there’s just so much smoke I have no idea what’s going to happen. I just know Meier can’t be fumbled otherwise we’re screwed lol. Karlsson would be a dream trade (I want him to win not stew in SJ); but Meier has to be extended by 8yrs at a good AAV or traded for a haul that gives our prospects some much needed help.

For me, the comp is DeBrincat (for 7oa + 39oa + 3rd), although the acquiring team knows the pay raise is imminent vs a full season away. Fiala (for 19oa + Faber) would be the comp if the Sharks wait until the offseason.

this exactly -> plus a lot of what sheng writes generally isnt his opinion but what various NHL people he's connected to think

Because Hughes and nemec are that awesome. Also in no list, or any piece of non devils media ive seen has holtz above eklund or muk as an A prospect

Actually many do.

Just look at most recent rankings.


Here are some rankings:

McKeen's
(includes NHLers)
Hughes #2
Nemec #10
Holtz #15
Eklund #26
Gritsyuk #63

THW mid-season list

Hughes #1
Nemec #5
Eklund #7
Holtz #8
Casey #55
Bordeleau #61
Gritsyuk #79
Foote #89
Mukhamadullin #96

Corey Pronman's U23 list
(includes all U23 in NHL)
Hughes #14
Nemec #40
Eklund #44
Mukhamadullin #68
Holtz #72
Bordeleau #89
Gritsyuk #147

Scott Wheeler

Hughes #2
Nemec #4
Holtz #22
Eklund #23
(Bordeleau, Mukhamadullin, Casey were all in #51-100 mentions)