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49Toronto Maple Leafs 2022 2023 Season Discussion (Part 4)

Mar. 21, 2023 at 10:38 p.m.
#1126
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Quoting: palhal


Ive seen others do it but they specialize in the try one game sleep another game
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Mar. 21, 2023 at 10:42 p.m.
#1127
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Stat time and this is mind boggling stuff

Sammy

Home: 18-2-1 with a 1.95GAA and a 0.929SV
Road 6-7-1 with a 3.23GAA and a 0.892SV

Murray

Home: 5-2-1 3.37 GAA and a 0.880SV
Road 8-5-1 with a 2.71GAA and a 0.917SV

So one of our Goalies is a Road Warrior the Other a stay at home Wall. One of the reasons I feel tandem is the way to go

But also send Sammy home to be with his wife and call up Woll. As the results show Murray and Woll should be fine for this roadtrip
Mar. 21, 2023 at 11:02 p.m.
#1128
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
How to stop the Leafs? Clog up the middle of the ice and keep everything to the outside. NYI gave the Leafs nothing. NYI don't give up a whole lot of time and space in the offensive zone. This was a good playoff test. If Kampf and ZAR aren't going to be involved in goals for the Leafs, they can't be responsible for goals against. That crushed TOR last year against TBL. But they did have a great shift before the Marner goal. Way too many turnovers tonight. Puck management and decision making have to better when playing against strong transitional teams.

I was hoping with the additions Dubas made getting greasy goals was something we could count on in games like this. I’m left wondering why again Dubas doubled down on defensive minded players. Sure puts a lot of pressure on O’Reilly and possibly Knies to come in and provide some offence. I really don’t like what TOR did over the TDL, happy with O’Reilly, Acciari, and McCabe. Hate everything else.

I’m honestly curious when other fans are going to see the issues with the makeup of this roster.

There is such a lack of chemistry with this group.



Pick a fukcin lineup and start to create something



First night in a while they were able to out chance an opponent, so that’s something.
CF 59 CA 41
SCF 31 SCA 21
HDCF 15 HDCA 10


I can definitely see the issues there are with this roster, but I dont really want to jump to any conclusions before the end of the regular season. Keefe is still experimenting (unfortunately), and there are a ton of options. My least favourite moves of the TDL were the sequence of 3 trades (Engvall/Sandin/Schenn). They seemed so unnecessary and was fairly lateral IMO. Time will tell and I'm still hopeful they will eventually play better than they have been, but from what I've seen so far, I haven't been as impressed as I was hoping to be. If we fail again, I think the onus will fall on Dubas regardless of the good he has done (whether we like it or not), but there are exactly zero guys I can see being able to step in and do a better job than Kyle. I want to see a consistent lineup start being iced that looking something like this:

Jarnkrok - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Kerfoot - Lafferty - McMann
AstonReese - Kampf - Acciari

McCabe - Brodie
Rielly - Liljegren
Giordano - Schenn

Samsonov
Murray

Then after ROR comes back, go with this:

Bunting - Matthews - Jarnkrok
Lafferty - OReilly - Marner
Kerfoot - Tavares - Nylander
AstonReese - Kampf - Acciari

McCabe - Brodie
Rielly - Liljegren
Giordano - Schenn

Samsonov
Murray

There are definitely issues with this team, but I would not go as far to call them glaring quite yet. I think everything will fall into place and they will look just fine. The issue is though, they will look just fine and not spectacular. We are REALLY going to regret not going out and getting a top 6 scoring winger at the TDL. It was a huge missed opportunity and will definitely bite us. Im super curious as to what is going to happen this offseason. I'd really like for it to start with an AM34 extension, but it is going to be a chaotic one. Again though, we are second in the division and fourth in the league. It is not time to hit the panic button yet. The worst thing is that even if we do slay the dragon in round one, we have a world eater to face in the second round. I am not very hopeful and don't really think this is "our year".
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Mar. 22, 2023 at 12:01 a.m.
#1129
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Edited Mar. 22, 2023 at 12:08 a.m.
Quoting: Nathaniel
I can definitely see the issues there are with this roster, but I dont really want to jump to any conclusions before the end of the regular season. Keefe is still experimenting (unfortunately), and there are a ton of options. My least favourite moves of the TDL were the sequence of 3 trades (Engvall/Sandin/Schenn). They seemed so unnecessary and was fairly lateral IMO. Time will tell and I'm still hopeful they will eventually play better than they have been, but from what I've seen so far, I haven't been as impressed as I was hoping to be. If we fail again, I think the onus will fall on Dubas regardless of the good he has done (whether we like it or not), but there are exactly zero guys I can see being able to step in and do a better job than Kyle. I want to see a consistent lineup start being iced that looking something like this:

Jarnkrok - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Kerfoot - Lafferty - McMann
AstonReese - Kampf - Acciari

McCabe - Brodie
Rielly - Liljegren
Giordano - Schenn

Samsonov
Murray

Then after ROR comes back, go with this:

Bunting - Matthews - Jarnkrok
Lafferty - OReilly - Marner
Kerfoot - Tavares - Nylander
AstonReese - Kampf - Acciari

McCabe - Brodie
Rielly - Liljegren
Giordano - Schenn

Samsonov
Murray

There are definitely issues with this team, but I would not go as far to call them glaring quite yet. I think everything will fall into place and they will look just fine. The issue is though, they will look just fine and not spectacular. We are REALLY going to regret not going out and getting a top 6 scoring winger at the TDL. It was a huge missed opportunity and will definitely bite us. Im super curious as to what is going to happen this offseason. I'd really like for it to start with an AM34 extension, but it is going to be a chaotic one. Again though, we are second in the division and fourth in the league. It is not time to hit the panic button yet. The worst thing is that even if we do slay the dragon in round one, we have a world eater to face in the second round. I am not very hopeful and don't really think this is "our year".


In general tonight was a classic example of simple mistakes and McCabe-Liligren being an ass pairing like Rielly-Holl

Never do it again

Also Sammy and Road games dont mix do they
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Mar. 22, 2023 at 12:20 a.m.
#1130
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Edited Mar. 22, 2023 at 12:32 a.m.
Has McCabe-Holl been used as I feel its something to explore

As McCabe-Brodie is very good but XGF is bad with it

Edit: NVM got the results and its interesting.
Mar. 22, 2023 at 1:11 a.m.
#1131
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Quoting: Nathaniel
I can definitely see the issues there are with this roster, but I dont really want to jump to any conclusions before the end of the regular season. Keefe is still experimenting (unfortunately), and there are a ton of options. My least favourite moves of the TDL were the sequence of 3 trades (Engvall/Sandin/Schenn). They seemed so unnecessary and was fairly lateral IMO. Time will tell and I'm still hopeful they will eventually play better than they have been, but from what I've seen so far, I haven't been as impressed as I was hoping to be. If we fail again, I think the onus will fall on Dubas regardless of the good he has done (whether we like it or not), but there are exactly zero guys I can see being able to step in and do a better job than Kyle. I want to see a consistent lineup start being iced that looking something like this:

There are definitely issues with this team, but I would not go as far to call them glaring quite yet. I think everything will fall into place and they will look just fine. The issue is though, they will look just fine and not spectacular. We are REALLY going to regret not going out and getting a top 6 scoring winger at the TDL. It was a huge missed opportunity and will definitely bite us. Im super curious as to what is going to happen this offseason. I'd really like for it to start with an AM34 extension, but it is going to be a chaotic one. Again though, we are second in the division and fourth in the league. It is not time to hit the panic button yet. The worst thing is that even if we do slay the dragon in round one, we have a world eater to face in the second round. I am not very hopeful and don't really think this is "our year".



My real issue is injecting 6 new players that have affected 3 forward lines and all 3 defensive pairings with only 20 games to go after the TDL. That is such a massive gamble Kyle Dubas made, banking on all of these new additions to fit in. Not to mention the chemistry/moral of the players who left and creating that with the incoming players.

Dubas has made it incredibly difficult for Keefe to navigate this roster and we are left with, “I think”, it will all work out with 12 regular season games left.

I don’t take personal issue with who left, although I can find the argument with keeping Engvall and Sandin over Kerfoot and Holl.

My issue with Lafferty who I was never high on, is he is most comfortable at C and has looked incredible lost as a winger. Now that throws off where you could possibly slot in O’Reilly and in turn makes Kampf’s role on this roster not necessary. Especially with the exodus of Engvall, Kampf has really struggled like he has all year when separated from Pierre. The same goes are Acciari, who played over half his mins at C with STL. When healthy with have 6 natural Centers for 4 spots. I’m all for flexibility but if you are bringing in those guys, move Kampf out also.

I’ve been banging my hand on the table for a legit top 6 winger for multiple seasons and to go into what is honestly is the last dance for this management/core group, not getting that is so frustrating and as a broken record, a missed opportunity.

With the Dcore, with literally have 8 NHL defenseman (9 if you want to include Timmins who never really looked out of place) who could/should be playing every night. Liljegren has not looked the same since the additions, being called out by Keefe and scratched. Not to mention losing his close friend Sandin couldn’t have been easy. Keefe has had to run 11/7 just to get guys in, see who works, keep them fresh, but has also taken a toll on top core by playing them way to many mins especially with the playoffs around the corner. Overworking your star players is stupid.

Tonight was the first night since February 26th against SEA, when they didn’t get completely caved in or out chanced. Instead they looked lost and got there asses handed to them.

Again, there is 12 games left and this team looks lost. And it was all self created. It’s year fukcin 7 with Matthews and this is easily the least confident I’ve ever been in this group. Time will tell I guess
Mar. 22, 2023 at 2:22 a.m.
#1132
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Edited Mar. 22, 2023 at 2:32 a.m.
Honestly these should be the lines based on statistics and we know they work

Bunting-Matthews-Nylander
Jarnkrok-JT-Marner
Kerfoot-Lafferty-Acciari
ZAR-Kampf-McMann

ROR comes back u move JT to LW and Bottom 6 becomes

Kerfoot-Lafferty-Jarnkrok
Zar-Kampf-Acciari

Pairings

Rielly-Brodie
McCabe-Holl
Gio-Liligren

But some lines to consider also

Kerfoot-Acciari-ZAR XGF 3.82 XGA 1.27
ZAR-KAMPF-Jarnkrok XGF 2.4 XGA 1.14
Mar. 22, 2023 at 10:36 a.m.
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I'm in agreement with @MatthewsFan

Leading up to the deadline and seeing ACGM's with 4+ trades I was often saying how unrealistic it would be for a top 5 team to go out and turn over 30% of it's starting lineup.

Then what does Dubas do?

I mean...I get it. You can't change the philosophy of the team by adding 1 "heavy" player. But it is a big gamble.

I don't think there's any debate that this squad is not as competitive as a regular season squad.

And I'm not sure what the issue is. Hopefully just the grind of a long season and getting used to new linemates. I mean, we all get frustrated when we put up similar lineups year after year and don't get past the first round....so I'm holding in the anxiety until I see how this team battles Tampa in round one.

It's tough with all the experimenting Keefe now has to roll out to see what's going to work best. And no, I don't think you abandon the concept of a pairing like McCabe and Liljegren after one terrible game. 20 games isn't a lot of time, especially when your biggest addition is injured until the playoffs...but we fortunately have the luxury of having our playoff spot pretty much locked in and can afford to punt a game here and there.

Sometimes in poker you need to pay to see your opponents' hand just so you can bank the information for later. I'm tentatively optimistic that Keefe is just buying info and we'll be ready to go with an ideal lineup for game 1. And, at the end of the day, I don't think Engvall or Sandin were going to be the pieces to tip the scales one way or another so just have to hope for sunnier days ahead
Mar. 22, 2023 at 1:05 p.m.
#1134
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There we go

Should switch Matthews and JT as Bunting-Matthews-Nylander was a terrifying line



Mar. 22, 2023 at 1:13 p.m.
#1135
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Quoting: aadoyle




There we go

Should switch Matthews and JT as Bunting-Matthews-Nylander was a terrifying line





Top 4 Luke Schenn worries me
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Mar. 22, 2023 at 1:27 p.m.
#1136
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Quoting: Nathaniel
Top 4 Luke Schenn worries me


Liljegren is so not playing in the playoffs. If so, it will be sparingly and that is a mistake.

Lol to the bottom 6
Mar. 22, 2023 at 1:34 p.m.
#1137
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Edited Mar. 22, 2023 at 1:41 p.m.
Quoting: Nathaniel
Top 4 Luke Schenn worries me


Its gonna be like Lybushkin in the top 4. Hes gonna play 3rd pair minutes

People forget Lybushkin played with Rielly on the top pair but never played 20mins a night. More like 10-13mins

So if Schenn plays 10-13mins a night its not a bad recipe especially in tight physical games where we need someone cleared from in front of the net. For instance we could have really used him in that NYI game
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Mar. 22, 2023 at 2:01 p.m.
#1138
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Quoting: aadoyle
Its gonna be like Lybushkin in the top 4. Hes gonna play 3rd pair minutes

People forget Lybushkin played with Rielly on the top pair but never played 20mins a night. More like 10-13mins

So if Schenn plays 10-13mins a night its not a bad recipe especially in tight physical games where we need someone cleared from in front of the net. For instance we could have really used him in that NYI game


<a href=playoffsyou have no power here gif">

They played the 2nd most mins at 5v5 and got crushed
GF 2 GA 4
SF 33 SA 37
CF 69 CA 82
Mar. 22, 2023 at 2:08 p.m.
#1139
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Brutal luck for McMann, really hard time for him to stay heathy.

But at least we have 9 healthy D, would have been nice if they added another forward at the TDL. Oh well
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Mar. 22, 2023 at 7:32 p.m.
#1140
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Quoting: aadoyle
Honestly these should be the lines based on statistics and we know they work

Bunting-Matthews-Nylander
Jarnkrok-JT-Marner
Kerfoot-Lafferty-Acciari
ZAR-Kampf-McMann

ROR comes back u move JT to LW and Bottom 6 becomes

Kerfoot-Lafferty-Jarnkrok
Zar-Kampf-Acciari

Pairings

Rielly-Brodie
McCabe-Holl
Gio-Liligren

But some lines to consider also

Kerfoot-Acciari-ZAR XGF 3.82 XGA 1.27
ZAR-KAMPF-Jarnkrok XGF 2.4 XGA 1.14


except we already know that works, may as well change up some stuff. I'd like to see Jarnkrok - Matthews - Nylander at some point, Jarnkrok seems to mesh with Matthews really well. All three are very multi-dimensional threats
Mar. 22, 2023 at 7:34 p.m.
#1141
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Quoting: MatthewsFan





Brutal luck for McMann, really hard time for him to stay heathy.

But at least we have 9 healthy D, would have been nice if they added another forward at the TDL. Oh well


D is way harder to replace than 4th line forwards plugging into the lineup. Knies, Holmberg, Simmonds, etc. are pretty good 12th+ forward options. We'll be damn glad to have them if we have another huge injury tally like at the start of the season.
Mar. 22, 2023 at 7:51 p.m.
#1142
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Quoting: leafs101
D is way harder to replace than 4th line forwards plugging into the lineup. Knies, Holmberg, Simmonds, etc. are pretty good 12th+ forward options. We'll be damn glad to have them if we have another huge injury tally like at the start of the season.


Good on you for having confidence in a player who has never played in the NHL, a first year rookie with grand total of 37 NHL games, and an over the hill power forward who should have retired after the 2021 season as the ‘next man up’.

Agree to disagree, all good.
Mar. 22, 2023 at 8:06 p.m.
#1143
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
Good on you for having confidence in a player who has never played in the NHL, a first year rookie with grand total of 37 NHL games, and an over the hill power forward who should have retired after the 2021 season as the ‘next man up’.

Agree to disagree, all good.


i have confidence for the role we need. The nature of our team is such that, up front, we have big dogs, and on D, we don't and its more by committee. If 3-4 forwards got injured and we had to use a line of Knies-Holmberg-Simmonds for around, what 2 - 6 minutes a night and give way more responsibility to the top 9, our team is built such that its ok.

Whereas if a few D got hurt, we don't have that stud D and need to rely on the unit as a whole for the most part, so we better be sure the guys stepping in are proven and can play.

But yes, to each their own.
Mar. 22, 2023 at 11:34 p.m.
#1144
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Quoting: leafs101
except we already know that works, may as well change up some stuff. I'd like to see Jarnkrok - Matthews - Nylander at some point, Jarnkrok seems to mesh with Matthews really well. All three are very multi-dimensional threats


I think at this point less experimentation more find lines that work and stick to it. As the 3rd line is kind of a mess and sure when ROR comes back it could stabalize but it would be good to get some chemistry going between Lafferty, Acciari, ZAR, Kampf, Kerfoot, etc.

Dpairings is where its a coin toss but to me its probs gonna be


Rielly-Brodie
McCabe-Holl
Gio-Gustafsson

And people gonna go Gustafsson but yep I have a sneaky feeling hes getting in. In the 7-2 game didnt notice him on in a bad way heck he got robbed from his first goal. Heck Keefe has been doing a rotation setup at practice with him and Rielly on PP unit 1 (Kind of what we see out of EDM with Bouchard/Nurse). Hes also gotten more ice time then Schenn and Liligren its kind of telling

Still at this point setting the lines should be key so even if ROR comes back things wont get to unsettled
Mar. 23, 2023 at 11:11 a.m.
#1145
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Gus isn’t a fit imo
Mar. 23, 2023 at 12:57 p.m.
#1146
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One of the top moments of the season for me



Mar. 23, 2023 at 12:58 p.m.
#1147
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Quoting: MatthewsFan





One of the top moments of the season for me





Robertson put on an absolute clinic in that Stars game. People seem to forget just how young Robertson still is. He is so underrated (which feels weird to say)
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Mar. 23, 2023 at 1:14 p.m.
#1148
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Obviously it's a little early to begin speculating about what the Leafs look like next season, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we have a bit of a quiet offseason. We have so many prospects that look like they are ready for NHL games and could make a genuine difference. Even guys that aren't on my proposed roster like Abruzzese look ready. Assuming Murray gets traded / bought out, I could easily see us going with the following lineup next year:

Knies - Matthews - Jarnkrok
Robertson - Tavares - Marner
Holmberg- OReilly - Nylander
McMann - Lafferty - Acciari

McCabe - Brodie
Rielly - Liljegren
Giordano - Timmins

Samsonov
Woll

4.5 mil remaining in cap space means we could realistically keep Murray, but Woll is almost 100% an everyday roster player next season given his lack of waiver exemption and fantastic play. I think that first line could be a ton of fun, and it also allows for us to stretch out our core players to deploy a steady attack. Knies playmaking, physicality, and drive would make him a fantastic addition to that first line, and Jarnkrok has looked stellar next to Matthews. Robertson's tenacity and shooting ability make him a great partner for Marner while Tavares continues to be Tavares. I also really like the look of the third line and would prefer to see Holmberg get some reps at wing. Then the fourth line is just complete chaos and forechecking. Our defense doesn't change much, except Holl leaves and Timmins subs in
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Mar. 23, 2023 at 1:38 p.m.
#1149
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Quoting: Nathaniel
Robertson put on an absolute clinic in that Stars game. People seem to forget just how young Robertson still is. He is so underrated (which feels weird to say)


we seem to have a 2 strikes and you're out policy here in leafs nation. If you're not an every day top 6 player by the time you're on your second call up...then we resort to including you in every ACGM on here as a prospect of value that can land some stud.
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Mar. 23, 2023 at 1:39 p.m.
#1150
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Quoting: Juice
we seem to have a 2 strikes and you're out policy here in leafs nation. If you're not an every day top 6 player by the time you're on your second call up...then we resort to including you in every ACGM on here as a prospect of value that can land some stud.

If I were the capitals I would do a prospect swap between him and McMichael
 
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