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(SJS/NJD) - Meier, Harrington, Ibragimov, Hatakka, Émond for Mukhamadullin, Okhotiuk, Johnsson, Zetterlund

Who won the trade?
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Feb. 27 at 6:20 p.m.
#126
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Quoting: poeticentropy
Agree. Hindsight is needed to evaluate this deal and folks are oversimplifying tremendously

First we need to see NJD win 2 playoff rounds this year or next (I think they will), then the deal becomes more fair for SJ. It's really a necessity for SJ at this point (go Devils!)
Next we need to see how Mukhamadullin and Holtz develop and are utilized over the next few years.

Holtz because I think he was part of the conversations and ultimately Grier didn't want him for both his worth and how his inclusion likely reduced the overall return. So we have to see if Holtz blows up into a star or not to see if SJ passing on Holtz was a huge mistake or if he is overrated. I bet the conditional 2nd/1st was dropped off the deal if Holtz was included over Muk.

Zetterlund is going to have a bigger role in SJ than he would in NJ. Okhotiuk is also a good piece that will be utilized by SJ sooner. People forget how much of a turd SJ's prospect pool is compared to NJ's and so a swap of minor pieces dramatically improved SJ's situation. Muk was like NJ's 4th or 5th best prospect? He is probably SJ's 2nd or 3rd best now.

Grier continues the quantity over quality approach like he did with the 11th OA 22' pick.


I think the deal will ultimately be judged on how Muk does.
His upside is huge...and it could swing the deal more than late 1st or late 2nd in 2024.
Zetterlund is a tank, Okhotiuk is a human missile.
Maybe Grier wanted some quantity...but also appears he wanted some guys who play heavier game.

Stick 'em all around Eklund and a Fantilli or Carlsson and things will look bright.
Feb. 27 at 6:25 p.m.
#127
WentWughes
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Quoting: poeticentropy
Agree. Hindsight is needed to evaluate this deal and folks are oversimplifying tremendously

First we need to see NJD win 2 playoff rounds this year or next (I think they will), then the deal becomes more fair for SJ. It's really a necessity for SJ at this point (go Devils!)
Next we need to see how Mukhamadullin and Holtz develop and are utilized over the next few years.

Holtz because I think he was part of the conversations and ultimately Grier didn't want him for both his worth and how his inclusion likely reduced the overall return. So we have to see if Holtz blows up into a star or not to see if SJ passing on Holtz was a huge mistake or if he is overrated. I bet the conditional 2nd/1st was dropped off the deal if Holtz was included over Muk.

Zetterlund is going to have a bigger role in SJ than he would in NJ. Okhotiuk is also a good piece that will be utilized by SJ sooner. People forget how much of a turd SJ's prospect pool is compared to NJ's and so a swap of minor pieces dramatically improved SJ's situation. Muk was like NJ's 4th or 5th best prospect? He is probably SJ's 2nd or 3rd best now.

Grier continues the quantity over quality approach like he did with the 11th OA 22' pick.


Hindsight isn't needed whatsoever. Expectations are what is needed. What kind of player do you expect to get from those picks (reminder playoff team = later in the rounds) What are the potential of these players?
Feb. 27 at 7:00 p.m.
#128
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
I was expecting something around Mukhamadullin, 1st, 2nd, lesser prospect (like Okhotiuk).
So to that, San Jose added Zetterlund for retention, talking Johnsson and the other minor pieces.

And SJS fans gotta start getting acquainted with Muk.
Even though many Devils fans never once saw him play, usually those that did liked what they saw.








I don't see those moves happening in the NHL. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though.

This trade could of helped the Sharks. I don't think it does or will. It's a lot of meh. It's frustrating because all Grier has done is make this team far worse than he needed to. This is on top of the last few moves the organization has made before him. We've hit our 10th branch on this fall out of the tree.

Just want to say despite my frustration, I appreciate the conversation.
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Feb. 27 at 7:08 p.m.
#129
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Hindsight isn't needed whatsoever. Expectations are what is needed. What kind of player do you expect to get from those picks (reminder playoff team = later in the rounds) What are the potential of these players?


Top picks/prospects can turn into busts and later picks can turn into superstars, so you saying no hindsight is needed is really weird. SJ will likely get 2 late 1sts out of this deal and Muk will likely develop into a top-4 D man. It's a quantity over quality deal, but that's typically what happens in trades: You get a known quality piece for a bunch of quantity because that may match each team's needs at the time. The market was such that teams were not willing to drop their top prospects for Meier, and in this case SJ likely wanted Muk more than Holtz due to Holtz's skating.
Feb. 27 at 7:31 p.m.
#130
WentWughes
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Quoting: poeticentropy
Top picks/prospects can turn into busts and later picks can turn into superstars, so you saying no hindsight is needed is really weird. SJ will likely get 2 late 1sts out of this deal and Muk will likely develop into a top-4 D man. It's a quantity over quality deal, but that's typically what happens in trades: You get a known quality piece for a bunch of quantity because that may match each team's needs at the time. The market was such that teams were not willing to drop their top prospects for Meier, and in this case SJ likely wanted Muk more than Holtz due to Holtz's skating.


This is getting way too philosophical for me. Would those busts be due to the team not being able to develope or are we saying they picked the wrong player? Think we can't take Hindsight into any trade because GMs can't.
Feb. 27 at 7:41 p.m.
#131
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
This is getting way too philosophical for me. Would those busts be due to the team not being able to develope or are we saying they picked the wrong player? Think we can't take Hindsight into any trade because GMs can't.


well then yeah in no hindsight allowed this trade looks bad grin
but that's because all the hype surrounding NJ's other prospects. In reality there are doubts about Holtz, he definitely wouldn't be 7thOA in a redraft, and Muk is not that far off as a prospect. Grier took quantity and it was never realistic to believe Grier could pry Mercer or Nemec from NJ
Feb. 28 at 2:04 p.m.
#132
torontos finest
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scott harrington got claimed off waivers

i know how crucial he was for this trade given how he was mentioned a whole once in this entire thread
Mar. 3 at 5:27 p.m.
#133
sensonfire
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Edited Mar. 3 at 5:38 p.m.
1. My benchmark for a fair deal on Timo Meier was the Kevin Fiala trade between the Kings and the Wild.

Shakir Mukhamadullin + New Jersey's 2023 1st would hit that benchmark.

New Jersey's 2023 1st is not going to be in the Top 2 and I have no idea why that condition needs to be in the trade.

So, let's put that aside.




2. Fabian Zetterlund is what pays for the salary retention on Timo Meier.





3. Nikita Okhotiuk is what pays for dumping Andrea Johnsson.





4. That means the rest of the trade is:


New Jersey's 2024 2nd that becomes a 1st if the Devils reach the ECF in either 2023 or 2024
New Jersey's 2024 7th

for

Colorado's 2024 5th
4 contract spots belonging to players with not much of a future in the NHL

Three of which are waivers exempt (Emond + Hatakka + Ibragimov)
One of which is not waivers exempt (Harrington)





The reason why these 4 contracts are in this trade was to keep San Jose under the 50 contract limit when they made this trade.

If anything, the Devils are doing the Sharks a favour.

This is what makes the difference as to who wins or lose the trade.
Mar. 3 at 5:36 p.m.
#134
sensonfire
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On a final note ...



1. Timo Meier's qualifying offer this year (10 million) is twice as high as Kevin Fiala's from last year (5.1 million).



2. Kevin Fiala signed for 7.875 million per year with the Kings.

Timo Meier reportedly wants at least 9 million per year from whichever team signs him.

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/sharks/nhl-rumors-sharks-timo-meier-wants-9m-potential-contract-extension



3. Back in 2018, everybody thought San Jose fleeced Ottawa in the Erik Karlsson trade.

Once 2020 rolled around, everybody was singing a different tune.

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/167864




4. No matter what happens, Sharks GM Mike Grier did well here.

San Jose wins the trade.
Mar. 4 at 10:16 a.m.
#135
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I think the problem most have from the SJ side are the magic beans. SJ got a replaceable 3rd liner, a defensive prospect, and what are either 2 very late firsts or a late first and mid to late second. That’s it. Given the percentages of players making the NHL they’re lucky if either of the two picks plays a full NHL career.

The key piece is Muk and, given NJ’s prospect pool, many of the other magic beans should have been sacrificed for one of the true top prospects. Nemec or Hughes should have been the targets, frankly, no matter what the cost, be it negotiations with Meier, throwing in Bonino, giving up picks, etc. SJ will be drafting a high-end forward this summer, also known as Meier’s replacement/upgrade(?). They traded their best defensive prospect in the system earlier in the year and their 2 best young defensemen are no where near top-2 quality. Karlsson is very possibly gone in the summer and there is a huge hole left by he and Burns and no one to fill.

Muk appears serviceable and likely will be a top 4, but he is not a talent like the other 2. SJ and Mike Grier missed on this trade.
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May 31 at 6:32 p.m.
#136
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Quoting: OldSJFan
I think the problem most have from the SJ side are the magic beans. SJ got a replaceable 3rd liner, a defensive prospect, and what are either 2 very late firsts or a late first and mid to late second. That’s it. Given the percentages of players making the NHL they’re lucky if either of the two picks plays a full NHL career.

The key piece is Muk and, given NJ’s prospect pool, many of the other magic beans should have been sacrificed for one of the true top prospects. Nemec or Hughes should have been the targets, frankly, no matter what the cost, be it negotiations with Meier, throwing in Bonino, giving up picks, etc. SJ will be drafting a high-end forward this summer, also known as Meier’s replacement/upgrade(?). They traded their best defensive prospect in the system earlier in the year and their 2 best young defensemen are no where near top-2 quality. Karlsson is very possibly gone in the summer and there is a huge hole left by he and Burns and no one to fill.

Muk appears serviceable and likely will be a top 4, but he is not a talent like the other 2. SJ and Mike Grier missed on this trade.


Nemec or Hughes were never remotely on the table. Unless you wanted Meier+Eklund for Nemec
Jun. 14 at 9:28 a.m.
#137
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Quoting: worldwidesensei
Yes, I am. And krebs was the centerpiece. I have the inside scoop. Kevyn Adams was not doing a trade with Vegas if it did not include Krebs.

And for the record:

Tuch 100 points
Eichel 68


Still feel Tuch is better? Lol
Jun. 15 at 5:13 p.m.
#138
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Quoting: BCAPP
Still feel Tuch is better? Lol


Yes.
Jun. 15 at 5:31 p.m.
#139
I make typos
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Quoting: EsoYeezus69
7cjvz8.jpg


sadly it didn't matter in the end
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Jun. 15 at 8:56 p.m.
#140
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Quoting: worldwidesensei
Yes.


Bahaha enjoy the bias buddy
Jun. 16 at 1:09 a.m.
#141
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Quoting: BCAPP
Bahaha enjoy the bias buddy


I'm not biased. I wanted Eichel to win the Conn Smythe
Jun. 16 at 2:02 a.m.
#142
Hakuna Matata
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Quoting: EsoYeezus69
7cjvz8.jpg


Well they didnt get Meier but in the end they got a cup

Do it again with Debrincat
 
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