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(TOR/CHI) - 1st, 2nd, Anderson, Gogolev for McCabe, Lafferty, 5th, 5th

Who won the trade?
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Feb. 27, 2023 at 3:35 p.m.
#101
MontrealCanadiensFAN
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What a solid deal for TOR. McCabe with 50% retention for 3 other years? Exactly the kind of deal they needed.

Chi could have gotten an earlier pick and I don't think it's a really good trade for them.

If TOR don't get past the 1st round this year I don't know what they need to do at this point.
Feb. 27, 2023 at 3:39 p.m.
#102
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Quoting: ARMCHAIRGMOFTHEYEAR
Meh I see Kerfoot getting traded for a 3rd at most if he's dealt and it would be from a contender so it would be mid to late, but he would have negative value in the case he was getting traded to Chicago because he's a UFA and Chicago has no need, and going through the hassel of trading him again isnt worth it.

Niemala isnt better than Muk. Niemala has struggled to produce has a offensive Dman in one of the worst pro leagues. Muk has been a solid 2 Way D in the KHL for 3 Years also has the size factor.


Reports say it's Vancouver btw, so high 3rd if it's picks.
And to CHI they'd just flip him. No neg value. Happens in the NHL often enough.

Uhh the fact that you think Topi is an OFD says a lot about where your opinion is coming from.

Muk has been terrible in his mins too. Not my opinion this is from actual scouts like pronman, Wheeler, Ferrari, etc

Quoting: dgibb10
are you suggesting 6 foot 3 is smaller than 5 11, 194 lbs is smaller than 169 lbs, and the finnish league is better than the KHL?


Actually lmao. You are such an interesting specimen
Feb. 27, 2023 at 3:48 p.m.
#103
I Love J Boqvist
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Quoting: Random2152
Reports say it's Vancouver btw, so high 3rd if it's picks.
And to CHI they'd just flip him. No neg value. Happens in the NHL often enough.

Uhh the fact that you think Topi is an OFD says a lot about where your opinion is coming from.

Muk has been terrible in his mins too. Not my opinion this is from actual scouts like pronman, Wheeler, Ferrari, etc



Actually lmao. You are such an interesting specimen


Wheeler has mukh as an HM on his top prospects list, which he says are fairly interchangeable from 45-105, meanwhile topi is nowhere to be found. Wheeler
Pronman had Mukh 5th on his trade deadline assets board, meanwhile Topi only 17th Pronman
and pronman has mukh 68th among U23 players, and niemela 142. pronman rankings

to quote pronman "Niemela’s offense is down this season in Finland, but I do think if he was on the market there would still be interest. He has excellent two-way hockey sense and is a good skater. He is undersized though and not that dynamic for a smaller defenseman so there is some risk. Those kinds of prospects tend to be part of deadline deals."

and "Mukhamadullin is an interesting trade chip. He’s a very good player. He’s a big defenseman who skates well and has shown offense at the KHL level too. He projects as a top-four NHL defenseman, but New Jersey has Luke Hughes and Simon Nemec coming and already has a strong club. Mukhamadullin may end up the odd man out in the roster battle and therefore makes a lot of sense to use in a deadline move."
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Feb. 27, 2023 at 3:51 p.m.
#104
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Quoting: Random2152
Reports say it's Vancouver btw, so high 3rd if it's picks.
And to CHI they'd just flip him. No neg value. Happens in the NHL often enough.

Uhh the fact that you think Topi is an OFD says a lot about where your opinion is coming from.

Muk has been terrible in his mins too. Not my opinion this is from actual scouts like pronman, Wheeler, Ferrari, etc



Actually lmao. You are such an interesting specimen


Vancouver paying a 3rd round pick for a pending UFA???
If he's being traded to vancouver you aren't getting positive value back hate to break it to you
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Feb. 27, 2023 at 3:51 p.m.
#105
Number 1 Kahun Fan
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Quoting: DDoverChucky
The retaining salary part is the only reason you get a 1st for these guys.


Mccabe without retention is worth a first. With retention hes more. Lafferty is worth a 2nd/3rd, possibly more considering the return Jeannot got.
Feb. 27, 2023 at 3:55 p.m.
#106
Just Keep Swimming
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Quoting: dgibb10
Wheeler has mukh as an HM on his top prospects list, which he says are fairly interchangeable from 45-105, meanwhile topi is nowhere to be found. Wheeler
Pronman had Mukh 5th on his trade deadline assets board, meanwhile Topi only 17th Pronman
and pronman has mukh 68th among U23 players, and niemela 142. pronman rankings

to quote pronman "Niemela’s offense is down this season in Finland, but I do think if he was on the market there would still be interest. He has excellent two-way hockey sense and is a good skater. He is undersized though and not that dynamic for a smaller defenseman so there is some risk. Those kinds of prospects tend to be part of deadline deals."

and "Mukhamadullin is an interesting trade chip. He’s a very good player. He’s a big defenseman who skates well and has shown offense at the KHL level too. He projects as a top-four NHL defenseman, but New Jersey has Luke Hughes and Simon Nemec coming and already has a strong club. Mukhamadullin may end up the odd man out in the roster battle and therefore makes a lot of sense to use in a deadline move."


Yeah man, let's just ignore all the other reports over the years for a quick post about a trade attempting to justify it. Interesting that you left out a particular scout in that mix I think, considering he has publically said yesterday that mook sucks lmao
If mook is valuable, so is Topi.

This is your king?


Feb. 27, 2023 at 3:56 p.m.
#107
I Love J Boqvist
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Quoting: ARMCHAIRGMOFTHEYEAR
Meh I see Kerfoot getting traded for a 3rd at most if he's dealt and it would be from a contender so it would be mid to late, but he would have negative value in the case he was getting traded to Chicago because he's a UFA and Chicago has no need, and going through the hassel of trading him again isnt worth it.

Niemala isnt better than Muk. Niemala has struggled to produce has a offensive Dman in one of the worst pro leagues. Muk has been a solid 2 Way D in the KHL for 3 Years also has the size factor.


I'm a big fan of his attempt to use an Appeal to Authority meanwhile the people he quotes to support his opinion completely disagree with him
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Feb. 27, 2023 at 3:59 p.m.
#108
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Quoting: aadoyle
By then McDavid will be pulling a JT and come home grin

Seems like a nice trade off


McJesus is going to LA and we all know it.
Feb. 27, 2023 at 4:06 p.m.
#109
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Quoting: Random2152
Yeah man, let's just ignore all the other reports over the years for a quick post about a trade attempting to justify it. Interesting that you left out a particular scout in that mix I think, considering he has publically said yesterday that mook sucks lmao
If mook is valuable, so is Topi.

This is your king?




To quote ferrari
"The belle of the ball among the trio of prospects is the former 20th overall pick in Mukhamadullin. The rangy, 6-foot-4 defender has been a divisive prospect in the scouting world over the last few seasons. Mukhamadullin has high straight-line skating ability and can make a crisp first pass. He has displayed glimpses of a clever offensive game, but it’s inconsistent.

It’s easy to fall in love with Mukhamadullin’s tools when watching his highlights. The mobility he possesses at the size he boasts is rare. He’s lanky but has room to put on some muscle as he matures. At 21 years old, he remains a bit of a project, albeit one that could net some incredible gains.

Mukhamadullin’s contract in the KHL ends after this season, and he is slated to make the trek to North America next year. He’ll likely need some AHL time to acclimate to the North American pro game and work out the bugs.

At his best, Mukhamadullin could be a puck-moving defender with intriguing offensive upside. He could be a second power-play quarterback who could also play on the penalty kill.

The problem is his decision-making could hinder him from ever reaching that upside. Even if it does, though, he should play NHL games in a depth role at 5-on-5 and be a steady penalty-killer."

Not exactly reading "He sucks"
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Feb. 27, 2023 at 4:08 p.m.
#110
I Love J Boqvist
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Quoting: Random2152
Yeah man, let's just ignore all the other reports over the years for a quick post about a trade attempting to justify it. Interesting that you left out a particular scout in that mix I think, considering he has publically said yesterday that mook sucks lmao
If mook is valuable, so is Topi.

This is your king?




Hockey prospecting has Reilly Walsh at a 77% chance to become a star, higher than all but Nemec, Hughes, Byram, and Korchinski among defensemen
Feb. 27, 2023 at 4:09 p.m.
#111
I Love J Boqvist
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Quoting: Random2152
Yeah man, let's just ignore all the other reports over the years for a quick post about a trade attempting to justify it. Interesting that you left out a particular scout in that mix I think, considering he has publically said yesterday that mook sucks lmao
If mook is valuable, so is Topi.

This is your king?




Also posting that without niemela as a comparison doesn't help your point.
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Feb. 27, 2023 at 4:12 p.m.
#112
Number 1 Kahun Fan
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Quoting: exo2769
Additionally, the players CHI got back are worth literally nothing. An ECHLer and a guy we could have claimed off waivers for free about a week ago. BUT I'd also say that Lafferty for a 2nd was the asking price. Not necessarily how every team felt about him. There have been worse trades. It'll help set up a stable farm system in the long run.


2-3 years is a lifetime (in hockey terms). The trade isnt bad, but feels like Davidson isnt extracting as much value as he can, especially when it comes to trades with Dubas.
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Feb. 27, 2023 at 4:12 p.m.
#113
We are all equal
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When it comes time to use the pick (1st rounder) either 2025 (as top 10 protected) or 2026 the Hawks will be laughing all the way to the bank!
Feb. 27, 2023 at 4:14 p.m.
#114
Respect Mike Grier
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Quoting: Random2152
Yeah man, let's just ignore all the other reports over the years for a quick post about a trade attempting to justify it. Interesting that you left out a particular scout in that mix I think, considering he has publically said yesterday that mook sucks lmao
If mook is valuable, so is Topi.

This is your king?




You literally named those people man, and he then proved you wrong by using what those people have literally said.

Now back to the original premise of the argument you trying to justify your proposal implys two things. Niemala is worth a first, and Domi has Equal too or less than value of Lafferty both are untrue.

Domi is currently producing at 66 point pace, Lafferty at 33 point pace,

Niemala was drafted in the 3rd round his value didnt magically shootup too the value of a first round pick especially admidst a down year statistically.
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Feb. 27, 2023 at 4:14 p.m.
#115
I Love J Boqvist
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Quoting: Random2152
Yeah man, let's just ignore all the other reports over the years for a quick post about a trade attempting to justify it. Interesting that you left out a particular scout in that mix I think, considering he has publically said yesterday that mook sucks lmao
If mook is valuable, so is Topi.

This is your king?




This is niemela btw



Are you capable of posting anything that doesn't disprove your own points?
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Feb. 27, 2023 at 4:22 p.m.
#116
torontos finest
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only on capfriendly could 2 pages of discussion occur over a trade proposal that didn't happen for a prospect that wasn't traded.
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Feb. 27, 2023 at 4:26 p.m.
#117
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So Chicago gets a 1st and a 2nd sometime after the heat death of the universe (The two players are just there for contract reasons.) and the Leafs get two players who will help them immediately, both with term, one at 50% off for a few years ... and two 5ths, which they will almost certainly trade away later for assets.

Leafs win.
Feb. 27, 2023 at 4:27 p.m.
#118
No regretzkys
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Quoting: jpsnow13
Toronto's next GM is the biggest looser in this trade.

Only 2 top 60 picks in the next 4 drafts? I see a 1st round exit and a firesale in their future.


lol.
When you have a prospect pool with Knies, Minten, Niemela, Hirvonen, Grebyonkin, Amirov, Robertson, etc... not too worried about picks.
Leafs are in better shape than Boston, Tampa, and Florida in terms of future assets.
Feb. 27, 2023 at 4:28 p.m.
#119
No regretzkys
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Dubas masterclass.
Deal improves the Leafs in the present and the future as both players have term and retention is the cherry on top
Feb. 27, 2023 at 4:29 p.m.
#120
torontos finest
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Quoting: MadLin27
lol.
When you have a prospect pool with Knies, Minten, Niemela, Hirvonen, Grebyonkin, Amirov, Robertson, etc... not too worried about picks.
Leafs are in better shape than Boston, Tampa, and Florida in terms of future assets.


oh no man you've opened up the pandora's box on why all the leafs prospects are bad
Feb. 27, 2023 at 4:32 p.m.
#121
Just Keep Swimming
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Quoting: ARMCHAIRGMOFTHEYEAR
You literally named those people man, and he then proved you wrong by using what those people have literally said.


None of what was actually said proves me wrong though. They're extoling his virtues, but that doesn't mean he is good lmao. Every prospect can have a positive spin on it. If you pull their reports from draft and draft + years you'll see that he isn't well liked. For example:

Tony Ferrari's piece yesterday is the definition of "damning with faint praise"
Quoting: Tony
The bulk of the value in return from the Devils comes from the first-round pick this season and the conditional 2024 second-round pick.

Quoting: Tony
The rangy, 6-foot-4 defender has been a divisive prospect in the scouting world over the last few seasons. Mukhamadullin has high straight-line skating ability and can make a crisp first pass. He has displayed glimpses of a clever offensive game, but it’s inconsistent.

Quoting: Tony
At 21 years old, he remains a bit of a project


Quoting: Wheeler
The appeal of his raw tools can still contrast against the mistakes and sloppiness present in his game at times

Quoting: Wheeler
He can struggle through his pivots, where he too often turns to skate with opposing attackers rather than defending them head-on with his good skating and length. His reaction time can look a split second behind on reads. He’s got an uncharacteristic posture.


That doesn't mean he is totally awful (I mean he is vs the other options at the draft time imo), as there is upside if he can unlock it (duh), but contrast that to Topi (this is the entire blurb on him):

Quoting: Wheeler
At a glance, Niemelä’s numbers with Kärpät this season have taken a step back after his superb season a year ago saw him become the league’s second-most productive defenceman. And yet he’s generating shots at the highest clip of his career so far (3.5 per game this year to 2.9 per game last season), he’s still playing 19-20 minutes per game (same as last year), and he’s still a big part of an above-average team in an above-average pro league at 20 years old.

Niemelä is a poised, calculating, one-step-ahead player who makes the game look easy. He can comfortably quarterback a power play, he creates offence consistently at five-on-five, he’s an able defender, and he drives results with the consistency of his execution. Niemela’s ability to calmly take passes, beat the first layer, and then quickly identify a lane or move his feet to create one distinguishes him. His game is detailed but also smooth, driving results with smart decisions in all three zones.

He’s not overly aggressive, so you’ll rarely see him try to beat multiple people to force a play individually (like you might expect out of someone as productive as he is) but he’ll use whatever space he’s given as a tool to get better opportunities for himself or his teammates. While he’s not powerful through his stride or in his board battles, impressive footwork helps him open up and direct opposing plays to the outside, close gaps, recover from mistakes, or adjust across the offensive-zone blue line with the puck.

He knows exactly when to move, and attack, and take space. He’s so smart on exits, where he just makes subtle little plays with the puck on his stick to evade pressure, escape danger, and skate the puck out of the zone. He projects as a No. 4-5 at his ceiling and a No. 6-7 at his floor. I just don’t see him coming over to the AHL and not getting into the call-up conversation.



Quoting: ARMCHAIRGMOFTHEYEAR
Now back to the original premise of the argument you trying to justify your proposal implys two things. Niemala is worth a first, and Domi has Equal too or less than value of Lafferty both are untrue. Domi is currently producing at 66 point pace, Lafferty at 33 point pace,


Ok lets do this:

Just from rumours we have Laf worth as much as a 1st (which he didn't get). Haven't seen Domi rumoured to be there at all. Points really don't matter that much in individual eval - particularly not as a deadline rental vs a multi-year cheaply contracted player - See Jeannot, Goodrow, etc if you need any proof of that.
Secondly, a LATE 1st in 2025.

If I need to tell you how little value a late 1st in 2025 has then there really isn't much point in continuing this convo. Time value + pick value, yeah I'd rather have Topi (so I am very happy with how this came out).

Quoting: ARMCHAIRGMOFTHEYEAR
Niemala was drafted in the 3rd round


So your entire argument is draft pedigree. Had the rags not traded up for Schneider Mook would have been taken right around where Topi was (iirc mook was ranked around 50th depending on who you asked).

I'm not gonna bother with the other guy anymore. I've already dedicated far too much time to his nonsense between yesterday and today. You at least seem reasonable even though we disagree
Feb. 27, 2023 at 4:35 p.m.
#122
JT Miller for Hart
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Good trade for the Leafs.
I thought it would look something like
Timmins+Kerfoot+Anderson+1st+2nd+3rd+7th for McCabe(50% retained) and Lafferty.
Good on Dubas for underpaying.
However, next GM is screwed. Leafs only have 1 1st(2024) and no 2nds for the next 3 years.
Feb. 27, 2023 at 4:36 p.m.
#123
Just Keep Swimming
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Quoting: mondo
only on capfriendly could 2 pages of discussion occur over a trade proposal that didn't happen for a prospect that wasn't traded.


I am magic.

FEAR ME MERE MORTALS
Feb. 27, 2023 at 4:37 p.m.
#124
JT Miller for Hart
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Quoting: Random2152
Reports say it's Vancouver btw, so high 3rd if it's picks.
And to CHI they'd just flip him. No neg value. Happens in the NHL often enough.

Uhh the fact that you think Topi is an OFD says a lot about where your opinion is coming from.

Muk has been terrible in his mins too. Not my opinion this is from actual scouts like pronman, Wheeler, Ferrari, etc



Actually lmao. You are such an interesting specimen


Lol, why would we buy?
Feb. 27, 2023 at 4:41 p.m.
#125
Just Keep Swimming
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Quoting: AK50
Lol, why would we buy?


That is a terrific question. Perhaps you should ask JR
 
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