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Does that beat any offer for PLD after the draft

Created by: LIRIK
Team: 2023-24 Montreal Canadiens
Initial Creation Date: Mar. 30, 2023
Published: Mar. 30, 2023
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
WPG wants an Horvat deal for PLD. This offer is better than what VAN got for Horvat.

They want a 2023 1st, but teams won't have the cap space, or will wait after UFA market or at TDL. Most likely, it'll be a 2024 1st.

CGY 24/25 1st have nice conditions on it. Beck is as good a prospect as Raty. MTL add Avs 2nd as a sweetener.

I got nothing against FLA 2023 1st + Beck for PLD. But unless a team offer a 2023 1st + prospect equal to Beck, why would MTL do it?
Trades
MTL
  1. Dubois, Pierre-Luc [RFA Rights]
WPG
  1. Beck, Owen
  2. 2024 2nd round pick (COL)
  3. 2025 1st round pick (CGY)
Buyouts
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2023
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the FLA
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
2024
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the EDM
2025
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
20$83,500,000$59,959,166$1,170,000$4,752,500$23,540,834
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$4,500,000$4,500,000
LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$7,875,000$7,875,000
C
UFA - 7
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$6,500,000$6,500,000
RW, LW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,100,000$1,100,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$4,450,000$4,450,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$5,500,000$5,500,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$897,500$897,500 (Performance Bonus$557,500$558K)
RW, LW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,362,500$3,362,500
C, RW
RFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,400,000$3,400,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,700,000$1,700,000
C
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$4,875,000$4,875,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,500,000$3,500,000
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,925,000$1,925,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$875,000$875,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$275,000$275K)
RD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,000,000$1,000,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$420,000$420K)
LD/RD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$766,667$766,667
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,400,000$1,400,000
LD/RD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$762,500$762,500
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$950,000$950,000 (Performance Bonus$3,500,000$4M)
RW, LW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$10,500,000$10,500,000
G
NMC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$828,333$828,333
LD/RD
RFA - 1

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Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:05 p.m.
#1
I Love J Boqvist
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Yeah that gets it done.

Just saw its 25 1st and not FLA. maybe not enough anymore
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Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:09 p.m.
#2
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No. If you are going to trade for Dubois, it will have to be a package that is better than the draft pick compensation they'd receive if they didn't match an offer-sheet. This doesn't do that at all. You either have to acquire him at the draft or offer-sheet him in the summer.
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Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:10 p.m.
#3
19 lotteries, 0 wins
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are you saying this in the sense other teams are trying to get him? Or just wondering the value of your current trade?
Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:11 p.m.
#4
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I'd think you'd have to make that 2nd the Habs 2023 2nd at the very least.
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Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:12 p.m.
#5
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Typically draft picks are considered " a round lower" in value for each year away from the draft they are.
So a 2025 first, is equal to a 2023 3rd rd pick.
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Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:12 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: TheRevanchist17
No. If you are going to trade for Dubois, it will have to be a package that is better than the draft pick compensation they'd receive if they didn't match an offer-sheet. This doesn't do that at all. You either have to acquire him at the draft or offer-sheet him in the summer.


All MTL has to do is beat any offer WPG would get for PLD as a 1 year rental.
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Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:13 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: LIRIK
All MTL has to do is beat any offer WPG would get for PLD as a 1 year rental.


1 year offer sheets are risky, WPG could see what was going on and take the compensation, PLD then goes to MTL for one year and if things don't go well he could leave as a UFA. Hughes wouldn't make tha kind of deal.
Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:15 p.m.
#8
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Quoting: slater417
Typically draft picks are considered " a round lower" in value for each year away from the draft they are.
So a 2025 first, is equal to a 2023 3rd rd pick.


It's a 2024 top 20 protected 1st, or the best of 2025 CGY or FLA 1st. Could very well be a 2025 top 15 pick if one of them miss playoffs.

Trade would likely happen after the 2023 draft, the 1st would only be 1 or two draft away.
Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:15 p.m.
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Well at least now you can see that everyone is telling you it doesn't get it done. It's really a moot point though PLD will be traded at the draft, so it needs to be a 23 1st.
Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:17 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: TheRevanchist17
1 year offer sheets are risky, WPG could see what was going on and take the compensation, PLD then goes to MTL for one year and if things don't go well he could leave as a UFA. Hughes wouldn't make tha kind of deal.


It doesn't make sense for MTL or any other team to send an offer sheet. That's why all MTL has to do is beat any offer another team would make for PLD as a 1 year rental.
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Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:19 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: AndrewPawlack
are you saying this in the sense other teams are trying to get him? Or just wondering the value of your current trade?


Does that beat any offer another team would make for PLD as a 1 year rental?

Value wise, PLD is worth a lot more than that.
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Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:20 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: LIRIK
Does that beat any offer another team would make for PLD as a 1 year rental?

Value wise, PLD is worth a lot more than that.


Or they could just not match the offer-sheet and take MTL's unprotected 2024 1st rd pick
Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:23 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: TheRevanchist17
Or they could just not match the offer-sheet and take MTL's unprotected 2024 1st rd pick


No offer sheet.
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Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:24 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: Windjammer
Well at least now you can see that everyone is telling you it doesn't get it done. It's really a moot point though PLD will be traded at the draft, so it needs to be a 23 1st.


They all don't understand a different part of the trade. I'm trying to explain right now.

Please read the description and tell me which part you don't agree with.
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Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:29 p.m.
#15
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Quoting: LIRIK
They all don't understand a different part of the trade. I'm trying to explain right now.

Please read the description and tell me which part you don't agree with.


I'd personally rather the 2023 first just due to the fact waiting the extra 2 Years for a pick you have no clue where it's going to be or with the conditions in place what will occur. Not to mention the jets could see the return sooner as say each pick will take 2 years to make it (could be more in the 2025 draft if later) the 2023 first would debut in 2025-26 and the 2025 first would debut in 2027 or later. I just don't see why the jets would wait so long to see what they get in return and with all the unpredictability just to get the florida first kidney Mailloux and Dvorak. It's a great deal that you yourself have posted and if not at the draft make it 2024 protected top 10 and then becomes the better of the 2025 picks if neither are top 10
Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:30 p.m.
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Quoting: LIRIK
They all don't understand a different part of the trade. I'm trying to explain right now.

Please read the description and tell me which part you don't agree with.


You've tried rationalizing or countless times and have failed. Now you have neutral fans telling you it's not realistic.

That should let you know that it's not realistic.
Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:31 p.m.
#17
Go Habs Go
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Quoting: TheRevanchist17
No. If you are going to trade for Dubois, it will have to be a package that is better than the draft pick compensation they'd receive if they didn't match an offer-sheet. This doesn't do that at all. You either have to acquire him at the draft or offer-sheet him in the summer.


That's not going to happen.
Montreal isn't giving up an unprotected 1st next season and a 1st acquired by any other means is going to be lottery protected.
The "offer to beat" is the rental price. A late first and a prospect, with a contract going back for cap purposes.
The 1st from a rental will also be in 2024, where the Calgary pick can be taken if it's between 20-32. The conditions get messy after that, but the range opens up to 11-32.
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Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:36 p.m.
#18
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Quoting: LIRIK
It's a 2024 top 20 protected 1st, or the best of 2025 CGY or FLA 1st. Could very well be a 2025 top 15 pick if one of them miss playoffs.

Trade would likely happen after the 2023 draft, the 1st would only be 1 or two draft away.


The Calgary pick can be as high as number 2 overall in 2025. I have no clue what these ppl are talking about but this offer (unless you changed it) is much better than an offer sheet with a 1st and 3rd compensation.

Quoting: LIRIK
It doesn't make sense for MTL or any other team to send an offer sheet. That's why all MTL has to do is beat any offer another team would make for PLD as a 1 year rental.

Anyone seriously talking about an offer sheet should be ignored. Its always an empty threat. LMAO
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Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:41 p.m.
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Quoting: Windjammer
You've tried rationalizing or countless times and have failed. Now you have neutral fans telling you it's not realistic.

That should let you know that it's not realistic.


If you think what they answered makes sense, good for you. I personally think their answer reflect they didn't understand.

I'm going to assume you didn't answer my question because you realized everything in the description is true.

This is a better offer than the Horvat deal. This would beat any rental offer for PLD. You're just mad you're not getting a top 15 pick anymore. Truth is, no one was offering it but MTL.
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Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:44 p.m.
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Quoting: Howie
I'd personally rather the 2023 first just due to the fact waiting the extra 2 Years for a pick you have no clue where it's going to be or with the conditions in place what will occur. Not to mention the jets could see the return sooner as say each pick will take 2 years to make it (could be more in the 2025 draft if later) the 2023 first would debut in 2025-26 and the 2025 first would debut in 2027 or later. I just don't see why the jets would wait so long to see what they get in return and with all the unpredictability just to get the florida first kidney Mailloux and Dvorak. It's a great deal that you yourself have posted and if not at the draft make it 2024 protected top 10 and then becomes the better of the 2025 picks if neither are top 10


I agree FLA 2023 1st is better for WPG, but if no team is offering a 2023 1st, even a late one, why would MTL have to give FLA 2023 1st?

If the best offer is a 2024 late 1st and a prospect equal to Beck, then CGY 24/25 1st, Avs 2024 2nd and Beck is a better offer.
Mar. 30, 2023 at 6:58 p.m.
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Quoting: LIRIK
If you think what they answered makes sense, good for you. I personally think their answer reflect they didn't understand.

I'm going to assume you didn't answer my question because you realized everything in the description is true.

This is a better offer than the Horvat deal. This would beat any rental offer for PLD. You're just mad you're not getting a top 15 pick anymore. Truth is, no one was offering it but MTL.


Okay, let's try this tack, maybe it will help you see where everyone is coming from.

So, here, just try and pretend for a minute that you're a Jet fan. For part of the setup, I think we both agree that Beck, while a good prospect, is at least 2 and likely 3 years away from getting a chance to be an NHL regular.

Okay, so Montreal is coming to you and asking for one of your best trade chips, Dubois but the best they want to give you is A decent piece (Beck) that is 3 years away from even seeing the NHL and a first round pick that is at least 5 years away.

You also know that you can get a similar prospect and a pick in this years draft, putting both of them about 3 years away from helping.

Honestly, what would you do?

If you like this proposal so much, maybe just put it in your back pocket and keep it until after the draft. If Dubois isn't traded you can throw it up again for debate, but until then, I'm fairly confident the Jets world opt for getting help sooner and he'll go for a package with a 23 pick.
Mar. 30, 2023 at 7:02 p.m.
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Quoting: LIRIK
If you think what they answered makes sense, good for you. I personally think their answer reflect they didn't understand.

I'm going to assume you didn't answer my question because you realized everything in the description is true.

This is a better offer than the Horvat deal. This would beat any rental offer for PLD. You're just mad you're not getting a top 15 pick anymore. Truth is, no one was offering it but MTL.


Taking into account what most ppl say here in a serious manner when the feedback is always 95% negative is funny. I have ACGMS with nothing but negative comments at the 2022 TDL saying i was overselling Habs players and i ended up underselling them.

The word ironic doesnt begin to describe the lack of foresight by most here that are the loudest to comment.

Most here quite frankly have no clue what they are saying and never even read the description which is the story here as well
Mar. 30, 2023 at 7:20 p.m.
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Quoting: Windjammer
Okay, let's try this tack, maybe it will help you see where everyone is coming from.

So, here, just try and pretend for a minute that you're a Jet fan. For part of the setup, I think we both agree that Beck, while a good prospect, is at least 2 and likely 3 years away from getting a chance to be an NHL regular.

Okay, so Montreal is coming to you and asking for one of your best trade chips, Dubois but the best they want to give you is A decent piece (Beck) that is 3 years away from even seeing the NHL and a first round pick that is at least 5 years away.

You also know that you can get a similar prospect and a pick in this years draft, putting both of them about 3 years away from helping.

Honestly, what would you do?

If you like this proposal so much, maybe just put it in your back pocket and keep it until after the draft. If Dubois isn't traded you can throw it up again for debate, but until then, I'm fairly confident the Jets world opt for getting help sooner and he'll go for a package with a 23 pick.


Beck is NHL ready next season. He was the last cut at MTL training camp, and was the first emergency recall this season. His OHL team traded him because they don't think he's coming back next season.

If WPG actually get another team to offer a 2023 1st and a decent prospect, then MTL should definitely offer FLA 2023 1st and Beck to beat that offer.

If no one offer a 2023 1st, i don't see why MTL would do it. They could wait and offer CGY 24/25 1st, which is better than a regular 2024 1st instead of the FLA 2023 1st.

I got nothing against FLA 2023 1st + Beck for PLD. But unless a team offer a 2023 1st + prospect equal to Beck, why would MTL do it?

Don't you agree the most likely best offer from another team is a 2024 non lottery 1st and a prospect similar to Beck?

And about what WPG should do, you seem to forget PLD is in a different situation. He doesn't hold the same value another equal player would have.

If i was WPG, i would take the best offer i can. If someone is offering a 2023 1st and a prospect equal to Beck, i would force MTL to give me FLA 2023 1st and Beck. But if no one is offering a 2023 1st, i'm taking the CGY 24/25 1st + Avs 2024 2nd + Beck deal because it's the next best thing.
Mar. 30, 2023 at 7:31 p.m.
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@Windjammer so i think we both agree.

If WPG can get another team to offer a 2023 1st + a prospect equal to Beck before or at the draft, then MTL should offer FLA 2023 1st and Beck.

If they can't get a 2023 1st before the draft, then CGY 24/25 1st + Avs 2nd + Beck most likely beat any offer WPG would get for PLD.

I'm sorry WPG isn't getting value for PLD, but you have to understand MTL POV too. We're willing to beat any offer, but won't overpay just for the sake of it.
Mar. 30, 2023 at 7:35 p.m.
#25
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Quoting: LIRIK
Beck is NHL ready next season. He was the last cut at MTL training camp, and was the first emergency recall this season. His OHL team traded him because they don't think he's coming back next season.

If WPG actually get another team to offer a 2023 1st and a decent prospect, then MTL should definitely offer FLA 2023 1st and Beck to beat that offer.

If no one offer a 2023 1st, i don't see why MTL would do it. They could wait and offer CGY 24/25 1st, which is better than a regular 2024 1st instead of the FLA 2023 1st.

I got nothing against FLA 2023 1st + Beck for PLD. But unless a team offer a 2023 1st + prospect equal to Beck, why would MTL do it?

Don't you agree the most likely best offer from another team is a 2024 non lottery 1st and a prospect similar to Beck?


But you didn't answer the question what would you do?

Okay at least now I can see what you're thinking with the 23 Florida pick versus the 25 Calgary pick. Hopefully you understood what I meant with my example.

No offense, but Montreal is known for rushing their prospects and didn't have any depth, so where Beck fits in Montreal's depth doesn't mean much.

A more fair evalution of his abilities would be how he stacks up against players his age like in the World Juniors. It speaks volumes of where he's at comparatively to others his age when he could only make the team as an injury replacement and then was barely played. If he was NHL ready, he would have made the team outright. So, I call shenanigans on that one.

I can see that Montreal wouldn't want to offer more, but at the same time you have to understand that of Winnipeg can get more why would they take less?

As has been said many, many times the Horvat trade is an almost perfect example, so there should be a reasonably good chance that Winnipeg can architect at least that much for PLD. Considering the buying team is getting a full year as compared to 2 months as well as a younger, better player.
 
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