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Leafs 2022 2023 Season Discussion Thread (Part 6: Quest for the Cup)

May 5, 2023 at 4:22 p.m.
#726
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Quoting: aadoyle
Kind of find it funny how people complaining about the depth when its been them getting the goals

All our goals but 1 is from depth heck is ROR a core guy probs no so u could argue also depth (Unless he stays and they give him an A)

Knies 1 goal (Depth)
Kerfoot 1 goal (Depth)
Bunting (3rd line) 1 goal (Depth)
ROR 1 goal

Matthews, Marner, JT, Nylander and Rielly have had their chances but just aint delivering the finish we need


Meanwhile from Florida only 1 depth guys have scored if we counting blue liners than 3. Bennett, Lundell and Verheage are core guys by now

Cousins 1 goal (Depth)
Bennett 1 goal (Core)
Verheage 1 goal (Core)
Lundell 1 goal (Core)
Montour 1 goal
Forsling 1 goal
Barkov 1 goal (Core)

What Florida is getting is a lot of lady luck on their side especially when it comes to Bob. Leafs will respond as we have seen them do this before (2018 vs. BOS) cause lady luck can only last so long for Bob and his posts. As before Knies got hurt he and the third line were doing a good job and the fourth line had some good moments, but than Knies gets hurt and we see 2 bad plays from the big 4 and it all comes tumbling down. But first things first get Gio out for Gustafsson.


In this series against FLA, absolutely
May 5, 2023 at 4:28 p.m.
#727
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Quoting: aadoyle
Kind of find it funny how people complaining about the depth when its been them getting the goals

All our goals but 1 is from depth heck is ROR a core guy probs no so u could argue also depth (Unless he stays and they give him an A)

Knies 1 goal (Depth)
Kerfoot 1 goal (Depth)
Bunting (3rd line) 1 goal (Depth)
ROR 1 goal

Matthews, Marner, JT, Nylander and Rielly have had their chances but just aint delivering the finish we need


Meanwhile from Florida only 1 depth guys have scored if we counting blue liners than 3. Bennett, Lundell and Verheage are core guys by now

Cousins 1 goal (Depth)
Bennett 1 goal (Core)
Verheage 1 goal (Core)
Lundell 1 goal (Core)
Montour 1 goal
Forsling 1 goal
Barkov 1 goal (Core)

What Florida is getting is a lot of lady luck on their side especially when it comes to Bob. Leafs will respond as we have seen them do this before (2018 vs. BOS) cause lady luck can only last so long for Bob and his posts. As before Knies got hurt he and the third line were doing a good job and the fourth line had some good moments, but than Knies gets hurt and we see 2 bad plays from the big 4 and it all comes tumbling down. But first things first get Gio out for Gustafsson.


Seems like a bit of a stretch to include Knies and ROR on here considering Knies was up with Matthews and Marner when he scored and ROR gets a lot of PP time
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May 5, 2023 at 4:28 p.m.
#728
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
In this series against FLA, absolutely


Honestly its been such an odd series to me. I personally feel Willy bats one it floodgates open but we also need a bit more from Sammy and the Defense

McCabe and Brodie do not look like a shutdown pair rn and Gio cannot be in game 3

I would honestly put Holl and Gustafsson in. As its a new series let Holl redeem himself

As I have seen this happen to teams like NJ heck Tampa last year and they both ended up winning. Just took some changes and for guys to step up
May 5, 2023 at 4:28 p.m.
#729
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Quoting: Nathaniel
Seems like a bit of a stretch to include Knies and ROR on here considering Knies was up with Matthews and Marner when he scored and ROR gets a lot of PP time


Yea but Knies is depth lets be honest

Hes not a core guy yet. He will be one day but rn we have the big 5

Matthews, JT, Marner, Nylander and Rielly, ROR u could argue is the closest.
May 5, 2023 at 4:30 p.m.
#730
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Quoting: aadoyle
Yea but Knies is depth lets be honest

Hes not a core guy yet. He will be one day but rn we have the big 5

Matthews, JT, Marner, Nylander and Rielly, ROR u could argue is the closest.


I mean you are spot on, Florida's depth hasn't been a huge difference maker either. The most infuriating thing is that the Leafs play very well, then falter for maybe 2 minutes after Florida adjusts, and then they go right back to playing good. The only issue is that things arent falling into place for the Leafs when we are playing good
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May 5, 2023 at 4:32 p.m.
#731
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Edited May 5, 2023 at 4:38 p.m.
Quoting: Nathaniel
I mean you are spot on, Florida's depth hasn't been a huge difference maker either. The most infuriating thing is that the Leafs play very well, then falter for maybe 2 minutes after Florida adjusts, and then they go right back to playing good. The only issue is that things arent falling into place for the Leafs when we are playing good


Honestly to me Lady Luck has been a bit of a **** for us. Nylander should have had 4 goals in the third but nope 3 posts and a scramble save. If he gets one in and beats Bob the flood gates are opening and hes gonna eat that team alive

Matthews did it to Tampa with 3 goals in 2 games. Nylander to me Game 3 will go on a goal scoring streak to rival Draisaitl

As u can see it that boyz hungry and when that monies off his back look out Bob Willyzilla is coming
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May 5, 2023 at 4:41 p.m.
#732
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Quoting: Nathaniel
I mean you are spot on, Florida's depth hasn't been a huge difference maker either. The most infuriating thing is that the Leafs play very well, then falter for maybe 2 minutes after Florida adjusts, and then they go right back to playing good. The only issue is that things arent falling into place for the Leafs when we are playing good


That's been the most frustrating thing about this series so far, FLA has capitalize on every mistake TOR has made. FLA's inability to defend, TOR is generating more offensively than they have in any other series of the Matthews era but because of Bobrovsky , it is a 0-2 hole the Leafs find themselves in. If just a couple of those shots that hit that post go in and Samsonov gives TOR a save this is a different series.

But again, I am sure TBL fans are thinking the same thing right now, the team that plays the best does not always win the game.

Get more traffic in front of Bobrovsky and make life difficult.
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May 5, 2023 at 4:42 p.m.
#733
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
That's been the most frustrating thing about this series so far, FLA has capitalize on every mistake TOR has made. FLA's inability to defend, TOR is generating more offensively than they have in any other series of the Matthews era but because of Bobrovsky , it is a 0-2 hole the Leafs find themselves in. If just a couple of those shots that hit that post go in and Samsonov gives TOR a save this is a different series.

But again, I am sure TBL fans are thinking the same thing right now, the team that plays the best does not always win the game.

Get more traffic in front of Bobrovsky and make life difficult.


Bring that giant man known as Zohorna up and just have him sit in front of bob
May 5, 2023 at 5:44 p.m.
#734
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Quoting: aadoyle
Kind of find it funny how people complaining about the depth when its been them getting the goals

All our goals but 1 is from depth heck is ROR a core guy probs no so u could argue also depth (Unless he stays and they give him an A)

Knies 1 goal (Depth)
Kerfoot 1 goal (Depth)
Bunting (3rd line) 1 goal (Depth)
ROR 1 goal

Matthews, Marner, JT, Nylander and Rielly have had their chances but just aint delivering the finish we need


Meanwhile from Florida only 1 depth guys have scored if we counting blue liners than 3. Bennett, Lundell and Verheage are core guys by now

Cousins 1 goal (Depth)
Bennett 1 goal (Core)
Verheage 1 goal (Core)
Lundell 1 goal (Core)
Montour 1 goal
Forsling 1 goal
Barkov 1 goal (Core)

What Florida is getting is a lot of lady luck on their side especially when it comes to Bob. Leafs will respond as we have seen them do this before (2018 vs. BOS) cause lady luck can only last so long for Bob and his posts. As before Knies got hurt he and the third line were doing a good job and the fourth line had some good moments, but than Knies gets hurt and we see 2 bad plays from the big 4 and it all comes tumbling down. But first things first get Gio out for Gustafsson.


I don't see luck being part of this. Our big guns have been a little unlucky but I think Florida is going to keep scoring these transition goals until Keefe makes adjustments to stop that from happening but he won't. So hopefully you are right and it's just luck and turns
May 5, 2023 at 5:49 p.m.
#735
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Quoting: aadoyle
Honestly its been such an odd series to me. I personally feel Willy bats one it floodgates open but we also need a bit more from Sammy and the Defense

McCabe and Brodie do not look like a shutdown pair rn and Gio cannot be in game 3

I would honestly put Holl and Gustafsson in. As its a new series let Holl redeem himself

As I have seen this happen to teams like NJ heck Tampa last year and they both ended up winning. Just took some changes and for guys to step up


Do you honestly think Keefe is going to make any adjustments? Beyond maybe going to the 11/7 idea and plugging in Gustafson or Holl? I don't think he's going to change anything system wise and that's what's hurting us. They know how we break out and while 80% of the time they are going to be chasing us and likely giving us great chances, they also will keep getting "lucky" by batting a puck out of air and turning it back fast with numbers and score while we are running around trying to find the correct assignment. The refs need to call more that's for sure but it's the playoffs anything goes.
May 5, 2023 at 5:52 p.m.
#736
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Quoting: Nathaniel
I mean you are spot on, Florida's depth hasn't been a huge difference maker either. The most infuriating thing is that the Leafs play very well, then falter for maybe 2 minutes after Florida adjusts, and then they go right back to playing good. The only issue is that things arent falling into place for the Leafs when we are playing good


If they just cut out the bad turnovers, they will win the rest of this series by allowing less than 3 goals a game. If they don't make that adjustment, they'll allow 3 or more every game.

Out of everyone in the playoffs, the only two teams that really worry me were New Jersey and Florida and not for any of the reasons the media is suggesting. It's the quick strike offence that hurts the Leafs. Figure out their system and just wait for chances and score on them, that's Florida to a T. And it's worked great for them. We have lost 2, we can't afford to lose anymore. Keefe has to make adjustments and if he doesn't his head should be on the chopping block. He's the head coach he needs to figure out how to make it work and he just doesn't.
May 5, 2023 at 6:02 p.m.
#737
Save Ukrane, end war
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Quoting: leafs101
only fine line is that Tkachuk kinda feeds off playing agitated. Its either he'll play unreal or get a stupid penalty when you try to piss him off, very fine line


Totally agree. I'm saying it's a strategy I would gamble on being down 0-2. If we were up 2-0 I'd say don't stir the pot.
May 5, 2023 at 6:14 p.m.
#738
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Quoting: RipNasty
I don't see luck being part of this. Our big guns have been a little unlucky but I think Florida is going to keep scoring these transition goals until Keefe makes adjustments to stop that from happening but he won't. So hopefully you are right and it's just luck and turns


Its a lot of luck trust me. Look at the chances Leafs are getting rn, Bob is barely making those saves and we have been hitting a lot of posts

Lady luck be firmly planted on Florida rn

We are outplaying them in almost every way they just capitalize on the few mistakes. If Nylander had the finish games 6-3 Leafs W as that third period was one where he should have had a hatty
May 5, 2023 at 6:15 p.m.
#739
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Honestly a game like this is where I would want Muzzin. That man would get under Tkachuck's skin thanks to their history and with his experience man I would be terrified. Probs would also let Bennett know that **** would not be tolerated. Big rig hit incoming lul

Also would allow for Gio in the pressbox and we could have

Muzzin-Brodie
McCabe-Holl
Rielly-Schenn

But sadly that neck injury probs ended his career
May 5, 2023 at 8:36 p.m.
#740
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Quoting: aadoyle
Honestly a game like this is where I would want Muzzin. That man would get under Tkachuck's skin thanks to their history and with his experience man I would be terrified. Probs would also let Bennett know that **** would not be tolerated. Big rig hit incoming lul

Also would allow for Gio in the pressbox and we could have

Muzzin-Brodie
McCabe-Holl
Rielly-Schenn

But sadly that neck injury probs ended his career


Those pairs are fine, maybe. I don't know if a personnel change is the answer though. Doesn't matter who plays if we keep giving them easy offence off turnovers. And considering it's the same turnovers we have seen since the first year Keefe took over, you just can't say it's a player issue. It's the system. Hold onto the puck all the time generally is a good idea but sometimes you really do need to just dump it out. Get it to a safe spot and regroup. Our defence is handling them fine when we are organized in our zone. It's when we chase while figuring out assignments where we get burned. That's been all Florida has had this entire playoffs.
May 5, 2023 at 9:42 p.m.
#741
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Quoting: RipNasty
Those pairs are fine, maybe. I don't know if a personnel change is the answer though. Doesn't matter who plays if we keep giving them easy offence off turnovers. And considering it's the same turnovers we have seen since the first year Keefe took over, you just can't say it's a player issue. It's the system. Hold onto the puck all the time generally is a good idea but sometimes you really do need to just dump it out. Get it to a safe spot and regroup. Our defence is handling them fine when we are organized in our zone. It's when we chase while figuring out assignments where we get burned. That's been all Florida has had this entire playoffs.


Every team turns over the puck. A player change is needed as Gio has been struggling this season if u cant see it I cant help you.

A puck mover like Gustafsson can help alleviate like that as he and Liligren are good in transition.
May 6, 2023 at 12:26 a.m.
#742
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Quoting: aadoyle
Every team turns over the puck. A player change is needed as Gio has been struggling this season if u cant see it I cant help you.

A puck mover like Gustafsson can help alleviate like that as he and Liligren are good in transition.


Bourne's recent article lays it out perfectly. Yes TO could be up 2-0 but they aren't and they need to make adjustments if they have any hope. Eliminating quick strike offence against is key.
May 6, 2023 at 12:28 a.m.
#743
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Quoting: aadoyle
Every team turns over the puck. A player change is needed as Gio has been struggling this season if u cant see it I cant help you.

A puck mover like Gustafsson can help alleviate like that as he and Liligren are good in transition.


We don't need transition vs Florida, we need smart play. We are going to get our chances we just can't give them any. Gustafson is not great defensively and takes risk, that will play into their hands.
May 6, 2023 at 2:42 a.m.
#744
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Quoting: RipNasty
We don't need transition vs Florida, we need smart play. We are going to get our chances we just can't give them any. Gustafson is not great defensively and takes risk, that will play into their hands.


U do. Any team can play smart. Transition is how u exit your zone and create plays. Look at Gio guy cant transition the puck and hes been looking terrible this series. McCabe and Brodie are struggling and its hurting them

As we saw what killed them turnovers due to poor transition. Marner on the third goal decides to make a bad pass rather than carry it out. Transition is what will win games. Florida uses aggressive forecheck and so puck movers are what u need to make them pay as when they pinch Gus gets it out breakaway and u either set up an OZONE faceoff or goal

As in the end we still got Liligren, McCabe, Brodie and Schenn for defense heck maybe even Holl comes in if were going 11-7

McCabe-Brodie
Rielly-Schenn
Gustafsson-Holl
Liligren
May 6, 2023 at 7:32 a.m.
#745
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Quoting: aadoyle
U do. Any team can play smart. Transition is how u exit your zone and create plays. Look at Gio guy cant transition the puck and hes been looking terrible this series. McCabe and Brodie are struggling and its hurting them

As we saw what killed them turnovers due to poor transition. Marner on the third goal decides to make a bad pass rather than carry it out. Transition is what will win games. Florida uses aggressive forecheck and so puck movers are what u need to make them pay as when they pinch Gus gets it out breakaway and u either set up an OZONE faceoff or goal

As in the end we still got Liligren, McCabe, Brodie and Schenn for defense heck maybe even Holl comes in if were going 11-7

McCabe-Brodie
Rielly-Schenn
Gustafsson-Holl
Liligren


Turnovers happened due to careless and risky puck play, not because the team is bad at transition. Read Bourne's latest article on the Leafs. He spells it out great.
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May 6, 2023 at 1:42 p.m.
#746
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Quoting: RipNasty
Turnovers happened due to careless and risky puck play, not because the team is bad at transition. Read Bourne's latest article on the Leafs. He spells it out great.


But you know what? This is what I mean by getting more out your stars. The Marner/ Matthews turnover is exactly what I meant about not getting enough from the stars. Matthews doesn't kill penalties either.

The bottom line is when you are the big ticket on the team, more is always expected of you even when it may seem like enough is being done. The way the roster is structured is why the bottom six is what it is and when things go wrong, these top guys are going to be under the microscope fair or otherwise.
May 6, 2023 at 1:45 p.m.
#747
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Quoting: oneX
But you know what? This is what I mean by getting more out your stars. The Marner/ Matthews turnover is exactly what I meant about not getting enough from the stars. Matthews doesn't kill penalties either.

The bottom line is when you are the big ticket on the team, more is always expected of you even when it may seem like enough is being done. The way the roster is structured is why the bottom six is what it is and when things go wrong, these top guys are going to be under the microscope fair or otherwise.


Marner might actually be what the Nylander haters claim Willie is. Dude is invisible when it counts
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May 6, 2023 at 3:23 p.m.
#748
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Quoting: oneX
But you know what? This is what I mean by getting more out your stars. The Marner/ Matthews turnover is exactly what I meant about not getting enough from the stars. Matthews doesn't kill penalties either.

The bottom line is when you are the big ticket on the team, more is always expected of you even when it may seem like enough is being done. The way the roster is structured is why the bottom six is what it is and when things go wrong, these top guys are going to be under the microscope fair or otherwise.


Keefe does a lot of things well but his inability to adjust fast enough is why I would fire him.
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May 6, 2023 at 3:24 p.m.
#749
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Quoting: Random2152
Marner might actually be what the Nylander haters claim Willie is. Dude is invisible when it counts


Marner is definitely the most fragile player on the team mentally. As soon as things are not going his way, he does all sorts of stupid things.
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May 6, 2023 at 7:37 p.m.
#750
Rip
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Knies out ZAR in. That's Keefe's big adjustments after going down 2-0. If they win this round, it's inspite of Keefe. He's not a great coach.
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