I think the issue is; how is this team better than last year's variant?

They are both UFA's after one season, personally I think colton is worth a pick in the 25-35 range and he is decent defensively but he really shines on the forecheck. Unless killorn takes a big discount I would just keep him, he just needs more ice time

I think that most of the top teams in the league will be seeing regression next season so I think the idea for most of these teams is to just not loose too much. I think the only top 16 team's that are getting better are kings, devils, maybe kraken

Colorado and Dallas. 2 wild cards are TO and WPJ

I'd argue this third line would be very intimating on the forecheck and physically. Hartman has good hands, just needs a finisher with him

I think Tampa needs to look at expiring UFA's because Hagel is up and don't know how big that contract could be.... save the money on colton and killorn and give to hagel next offseason, expiring contracts allows for that.. don't think stamkos new deal will be that much less

I agree that most teams next year because I don't believe the cap is going to go up very much this offseason, will be to stay as close to their production this season. also tampa just needs to get in and then lets see how things shake out. granted they got a bad shake this season but gotta think vassy can bounce back next post season if tampa makes it.

i am under the belief that if tampa just runs it back without a shakeup to their team this offseason they won't make the postseason. they were sleepwalking so mush this season

Hartman got carried by Kaprizov, he would have nowhere near the production here he had in minnesota and foligno is too much of a cap hit, we might get close to getting killorn for that considering he would take a discount and considering taxes. I honestly am not too big on hagel, I love his forecheck but would not give him more than 5 mil AAV, he could be a very valuable trade asset. You also have to take into account that the salary cap could be going up by 4 mil in the 24-25 season and possibly another 4 mil the following season

I think colorado will stay the same considering they have to resign their entire bottom 6 and might not have nichuskin (idk if there was an update on the allegations) and I believe landeskog will still be out and dallas will stay the same, its pretty much the same roster

They just looked unmotivated and tired, I think part of it has to do with playing too many games and part of it has to do with aging, our 4th line looked so slow this year and its time we get some of the new kids in the lineup. Also I think they have shown they can turn it on when they need to considering they played very well in the toronto series they just didnt get the bounces or the goaltending

you are very incorrect on your analysis of hartman (respectfully) as a very important sample size- hartman was 2 goals and 3 assists and a plus 3 in this years playoffs.. kaprizov had one goal and was a -3 in this years playoffs

hartman is a setup man that drives play and has great skating

i truly don't think killorn is going to take anything less than 4 even with a "discount" and taxes coming into play otherwise it would already have been signed by both sides

now lets talk about hagel, I would need more examples or information to know why you don't think he's work are contract in the 6-7 range as most are projecting? his age is perfect, his stats and analytics are good. he skates well, can play any situation. maybe his size is the problem?

I think hagel is like a gourde or coleman, a very hard forechecker and playoff essential but the market price for these types of players seems to be around 5 mil AAV. As for his production he was on a line with Kucherov and Point and just about anybody could hit those numbers on that line. If hagel was able to score on all of those breakaways he gets and control more zone entries then I would be willing to give him 6-7.

i don't disagree that he plays like gourde, but i do think with better hands, i would say he is only 24 and i think Gourde was 29 when his deal kicked in, also the cap is supposed to go up and that would mean contracts go up.

I would say it would be inaccurate to say that when he plays with kuch and pointer he's just a player. he does the things they don't do, such as forecheck and go into the corners relentlessly. I think he is a much better fit on that line than stamkos or others are. they are not easy to play with either.

to finish off i can't say how much of a disrespect it is to compare him to coleman especially after this season. if you watched coleman this year, he was a shell of his former self.

But again, Is Hartman better than Colton and is Foligno better than Killorn?

With Landy out, Col has more cap space to get a 2C, which is desperately needed

The answer to both of those questions is HELL NO!!!
Killorn has put up his best 4 years the last four ( he learned to skate well) while Foligno has shown an appreciative decline. Coltonbis better than Hartman especially if you remove the one outlier of a season hest at best meh.

I doubt the Wild trade Hartman or Moose in the offseason, if they are getting traded its going to be at the TDL for picks and prospects. If both have just decent years next season then they both could get a nice return in separate deals.

Minnesota isn't trading their cheap 1c abd Marcus foligno to take on bottom C restricted free agent who needs to be signed. Foligno isn't a cap dump abd teams will pay for him. People like @Zibby805 always use this false reasoning about Minnesota cap situation, but greenway got a 2nd round pick. Hartman at his cost and being Minnesota 1c will easily get a 1st. For some reason fans of other teams always overvalued, or just try to come up with logic that is false to give less value.

That's sorta my point

I was emphasizing that

Really just about anyone can put up those numbers playing with Kucherov and Point? Why didn't Ondrej Palat then?

But still

TB shouldn't walk from this deal they should run like Hussain Bolt

Palat actually had a 0.84ppg in 20-21 and had a huge playoffs in 21-22. If you look at palats career his TOI almost directly correlates to his production.

So Hagels 2 mpg 50 seconds or so of which were PK (He was one of TBs top PK guys this year accounted for all 15 more points including 12 more goals is that what you're saying

Colton won't be bottom 6 next season is the real answer. Killorn is out, so Tampa's top 6 is likely Hagel-Point-Kuch, Colton-Cirelli/Paul-Stamkos. The 3rd line will be centered by either Cirelli or Paul, with Jeannot at one wing and probably one of Goncalves or ABB on the other. The 4th line will be Maroon, Eyssimont and whichever 4C ufa they go out and get in the 1.5-2 range more than likely.