If only Pesce and Jarvis would be the package......

Over the cap after the Canes decline

Might need to add something else but not sure how this can't get done. Nylander is better than Pesce, both are one year away from UFA so Canes would have to add

Or they accept

No, they very don't. This is awful

Brad Trelivings could never get even half that package for Nylander, lets be realistic

Canes don’t accept. But no it’s not terrible.

It’s simple. Pesce, Nylander 1 for 1 assuming both agree to extensions.

You’re not getting Jarvis also.

Nylander would've led the Canes in goals and points, how is acquiring an elite RW for this package awful? Quit being a homer for once

Got Huberdeau and Weegar for Tkachuk, what're you even saying?

Pesce isn't equal to Nylander though

Canes have a lot more leverage and Pesce is as good at what he does as Nylander is at what he does.

That worked out real well, for one team. I wonder which one.

You must've been the one genius who thought it was a bad trade from the start while everyone else praised Brad

How do the Canes have a lot more leverage?

Pesce didn't have his best season and is older while Nylander potted 40 and was a point per game. Not sure how they have equivalent value

Jarvis was untouchable for Meier, who had team control and is arguably a better player. They reject this for a rental in a heartbeat. You can call me a homer all you want, this is still brainless.

Source for that claim?

Pierre Lebrun, Don Waddell, Elliotte Friedman, Chris Johnston... that enough? LeBrun has a piece in the Athletic after the trade, feel free to go find it.

I think any player can be untouchable pending on what the return is. As it stands Pesce for Nylander 1 for 1 would never happen. The value for Pesce just isn't what it use to be and with the addition to Orlov it just brings his overall value or role with the team down. Comparing Nylander with Meier you get two different RWs completely. Nylander out skates and out skills Meier by a mile but Meier has the same scoring ability and brings a more irritable/physical aspect that Willy just doesn't. So it really depends on the kind of RW you want. I think Nylander fits Carolina's system much more than Meier does. That being said, I still wouldn't trade Nylander for Pesce and Jarvis. I think the Leafs lose too much in that deal.

Despite the other Canes fans mistruths, because Jarvis was available in the Meier trade. If Toronto can’t afford to keep Nylander who is asking 9 million plus, neither will we. We aren’t trading a cost controlled asset for a guy who is going to make way too much

Orlov doesn't affect Pesce's value... what logic is that? Using that, Draisaitl worth as much as Kadri, because he's a 2nd line center in Alberta. That's the only similarity. Let's ignore the fact Orlov is a LD and PEsce is a RD, let's pretend that doesn't matter (it does). Pesce's better than Orlov...Pesce is a top 10 RD in the league, and he's cost effective. He often gets overlooked as so many Canes players do for a team that is consistently among the best in the NHL, but that isn't the issue here. Jarvis straight-up has the ability to be better than Nylander. He's already probably a better skater than Nylander, which says more about Jarvis than Nylander. His totals aren't a million miles away, and he's still just 21. This deal is awful for a dude the Canes know they wouldn't be able to re-sign because he's asking for more than 10 mil a year

Come on now....you should know better

Trades aren't about swapping players who are 'equally good', it's about the value they bring to that specific team...and even more, the effect it has on the overall health of the franchise.

Toronto has no cap space and has to consider raises to two guys already making north of $10m. They have to move Nylander. And they want to improve their 'meh' defense.

So I'm sure the rebuttal will be....'but the Canes need more offense', which is partly true. But they had enough offense to win the division. Do they need Nylander's 40 goals in the regular season....not really. Do they need that scoring at the cost of probably more then $8m for at least 3 years, absolutely not.

Pesce will be cheaper to extend...so there you go, the inequity you were looking for.

But ok, so how are the Canes going to get the offense they need. Again, to be more accurate, they need more scoring in the playoffs.

With Svech coming back, and assuming improvement from a young core, and now adding Bunting, it's a fair assumption that playoff scoring will increase. It's not as if they need a ton of scoring, they were four goals away from the SCF.

And hey, if they are wrong and still need more scoring that will certainly be available at the deadline.

Also keep in mind, even with his 40+ goals, Nylander was only +10 in the regular season and -4 in the playoffs.

This isn't to say Nylander is not a great scorer....he is. But given the cost both in giving up Pesce and what it would it take to extend him....he doesn't represent exceptional value for the Canes.

With the embarrassment of riches on D, as well as some cap space remaining, the Canes don't need to target a rental or $8m x 3 year player....they can target someone younger, cheaper, who is a better two-way player.

It's just not a move the Canes have to make

15,981 posts and still delusional and obviously biased. Your evaluation on Pesce is that of a biased fan and not of a professional scout. You don't sign Orlov for the kind of money he is making with the likes of Slavin, Burns, Skjei and be one of the front runners with Pittsburg for Erik Karlsson without taking a hit on the value of a guy you clearly need to trade now. It's fairly basic business, if you have a top 10 employee why are you looking to add others to take his spot? Now for your Seth Jarvis comments... is he a good player? Yes. Is he a top 6 forward? Yes. Will he ever put up the numbers Nylander is putting up? Probably not. Carolina is also in a win now mode which you get better results with Nylander than Jarvis at this point. Not to mention Nylander put up more goals than Jarvis did points this year and as a 21 year on an arguable worse team at the time, Nylander put up 61 points to Jarvis 39.

So I stand by what I said, Nylander for Pesce and Jarvis would be a terrible trade for Toronto at this point. Also, Nylander asking for over 10? You've got to stop reading blog posts from 12 year olds in their parents basement pretending to be hockey insiders my guy.

Okay, let's look at Pesce.

He's one of the best defenseman in the league in his own zone, and both the eye test and analytics prove that. He's signed for another year at 4.05, he's a RHD that can babysit defensemen who aren't so good in their own zone. Is that all fair? Good. Orlov is a LHD, he's an indication of a move with Skjei, not with Pesce. EK would be a sign of a Pesce issue, but seeing as nothing has happened, you cannot say that there's a problem. The teams entire issue with Pesce is term. They're willing to pay him the 7 million he wants, they don't want to sign him until he's 36, they do this with everyone. Carolina also have a history of loading up on the blueline. The very first year Don Waddell was in charge of the Canes, they had a D core of Slavin - Hamilton, Pesce -Faulk (yes, Pesce played on the Left, he can do it but is a RD primarily, I know you Leaf fans can be a little clueless) and de Haan - van Riemsdyk, they love having a deep blueline. Orlov signing helps that, but he also helps the Canes try to lure Alexander Nikishin, one of the best prospects in hockey, out of the KHL. There's multiple reasons for signing Orlov that have nothing to do with Pesce.

Now lets talk Jarvis. We already agree he's a top 6 winger, we already agree he's a fantastic player. He's also only 21. He's going to improve drastically, and for someone that has already put up multiple 40ish point seasons, saying 80-90 points after a breakout year is beyond the bounds is COMICAL.

Oh, and as for your comment about NHL insiders being 12 years old from their moms basement, you're really in denial huh... Canes decline this because the value is comically off. They'll ride the season out with Pesce before they make a deal that compromises the bright future of the team.

Oh and you say the Canes are in win now mode, which is cute. You still haven't realized the Canes don't have a win now mode, they're trying to set up for sustained success, it's why they refuse to sign players over 30, avoid rentals, and don't pay big money long term outside of some very notable exceptions.

He doesn’t speak for Canes fans.

I speak for an organization that turned down Laine from the Jets coming off his best season in the NHL for Pesce and Necas. Jarvis, who straight up has more upside, and Pesce is comical.