SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Armchair-GM

If we are going to be sellers at the 2024 trade deadline

Created by: sensonfire
Team: 2023-24 Ottawa Senators
Initial Creation Date: Aug. 9, 2023
Published: Aug. 9, 2023
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
2$2,500,000
1$787,500
Trades
1.
OTT
  1. Katchouk, Boris
  2. Kayumov, Artur [Reserve List]
Additional Details:
Trade made during the 2023 offseason
CHI
  1. Joseph, Mathieu
  2. 2024 2nd round pick (OTT)
Additional Details:
List of Hawks fans in AGM that have so far endorsed this trade:


exo2769
Hawksguy81
HiddenValley
CFMan
JK74
Garak
BrianCampbell
Jco5ta5
2.
OTT
  1. Brisson, Brendan
Additional Details:
Trade made at 2024 trade deadline
VGK
  1. Kubalik, Dominik ($1,250,000 retained)
Buyouts
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2024
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the DET
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the DET
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
2025
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
2026
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$83,500,000$80,813,213$0$1,850,000$2,686,787
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$6,500,000$6,500,000
RW, C
NMC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$8,350,000$8,350,000
C
UFA - 8
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$2,500,000$2,500,000
RW
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$8,205,714$8,205,714
LW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$7,950,000$7,950,000
C
UFA - 7
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$4,975,000$4,975,000
RW, LW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$863,333$863,333
C, LW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$2,500,000$2,500,000
C
RFA - 1
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$787,500$787,500
LW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
$758,333$758,333
LW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$835,000$835,000
C, RW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$775,000$775,000
RW, C
UFA - 3
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$8,000,000$8,000,000
LD
UFA - 5
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$4,600,000$4,600,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$4,000,000$4,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$4,600,000$4,600,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$2,000,000$2,000,000
LD/RD, LW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$2,750,000$2,750,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$1,850,000$2M)
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$1,100,000$1,100,000
RD
NMC
UFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$805,000$805,000
RD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$762,500$762,500
LW
RFA - 1

Embed Code

  • To display this team on another website or blog, add this iFrame to the appropriate page
  • Customize the height attribute in the iFrame code below to fit your website appropriately. Minimum recommended: 400px.

Text-Embed

Click to Highlight
Aug. 9, 2023 at 12:09 p.m.
#1
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 6,737
Likes: 1,565
It’s hard to see Tarasenko be good enough to get that haul while Ottawa is that bad that they’re out of the playoff mix.
Aug. 9, 2023 at 12:13 p.m.
#2
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2022
Posts: 1,708
Likes: 606
that's pretty similar to what st. louis got for Tarasenko, don't see Ottawa getting that for him
Aug. 9, 2023 at 12:14 p.m.
#3
Thread Starter
sensonfire
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2021
Posts: 12,202
Likes: 4,595
Quoting: Sagecoll
It’s hard to see Tarasenko be good enough to get that haul while Ottawa is that bad that they’re out of the playoff mix.


Was Tarasenko good enough to get a haul like this last season when the Blues were out of the playoff mix?
Aug. 9, 2023 at 12:15 p.m.
#4
Thread Starter
sensonfire
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2021
Posts: 12,202
Likes: 4,595
Quoting: gary_
that's pretty similar to what st. louis got for Tarasenko, don't see Ottawa getting that for him


Why's that?
Aug. 9, 2023 at 12:19 p.m.
#5
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 6,737
Likes: 1,565
Quoting: sensonfire
Was Tarasenko good enough to get a haul like this last season when the Blues were out of the playoff mix?


He got a haul slightly less than this and was largely underwhelming in a much more scarce F deadline market.

So with that history, a greater supply of F’s and some age regression the compensation would only go down naturally
HOCKEYBOY448 liked this.
Aug. 9, 2023 at 12:27 p.m.
#6
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2020
Posts: 6,456
Likes: 2,587
I’d assume Kane signs on Nov. leaving no need for Vladdy
Aug. 9, 2023 at 12:57 p.m.
#7
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jan. 2017
Posts: 6,593
Likes: 3,301
Quoting: Sagecoll
He got a haul slightly less than this and was largely underwhelming in a much more scarce F deadline market.

So with that history, a greater supply of F’s and some age regression the compensation would only go down naturally


Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Aug. 9, 2023 at 1:14 p.m.
#8
Avatar of the user
Joined: Aug. 2021
Posts: 6,172
Likes: 2,682
Quoting: sensonfire
Was Tarasenko good enough to get a haul like this last season when the Blues were out of the playoff mix?


Quoting: Sagecoll
He got a haul slightly less than this and was largely underwhelming in a much more scarce F deadline market.

So with that history, a greater supply of F’s and some age regression the compensation would only go down naturally


Also Ottawa gave him full NTC, so he could also say “only trade me to NYR or no where”
Aug. 9, 2023 at 1:17 p.m.
#9
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 6,737
Likes: 1,565
Quoting: Rags21
Also Ottawa gave him full NTC, so he could also say “only trade me to NYR or no where”


Sure, but Drury is terrible enough that he'll still overpay in that context (see Kane)
Aug. 9, 2023 at 1:20 p.m.
#10
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2018
Posts: 7,552
Likes: 3,801
I highly doubt Tarasenko will waive his NTC at any point this year and even if he did it would only be for a select few teams, thus negatively impacting his value.

If he does get traded, it will be for a 3rd round pick.
NDoody liked this.
Aug. 9, 2023 at 1:32 p.m.
#11
Snowhawk
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2022
Posts: 2,932
Likes: 4,443
If I’m Davidson, I would have no interest in this deal for the Hawks. Joseph is a $1m - $1.5m player in the current market, having his $3m on the books for three seasons isn’t something I would be interested in.

A $9m cash commitment for the next three seasons is significant and would take more then a 2nd round pick to make me pull the trigger. These two teams/GM’s completed a deal last season where the Hawks were taking on half the money and received a 2nd and 4th.

The Hawks also received a 2nd for Dickinson who made $2.65m for two seasons and they were able to dump Stillman as part of the deal. They got a 22nd for Bailey, bought him out and paid less then $4m in actual $$.
LivingAnew liked this.
Aug. 9, 2023 at 1:33 p.m.
#12
Avatar of the user
Joined: Aug. 2021
Posts: 6,172
Likes: 2,682
Quoting: Sagecoll
Sure, but Drury is terrible enough that he'll still overpay in that context (see Kane)


Lol overpay? He gave up a 2nd and 4th for arguably the greatest American player ever lmao
Aug. 9, 2023 at 1:41 p.m.
#13
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 6,737
Likes: 1,565
Quoting: Rags21
Lol overpay? He gave up a 2nd and 4th for arguably the greatest American player ever lmao


I mean I'm not sure what Kane did 10 years ago has to do with what he is now. He gave up a 2nd and 4th for a PP specialist (to come to a team with an already overstocked PP) who doesn't play defense operating on 1 hip.
But I mean hard to argue with results.
Aug. 9, 2023 at 2:11 p.m.
#14
Avatar of the user
Joined: Aug. 2021
Posts: 6,172
Likes: 2,682
Quoting: Sagecoll
I mean I'm not sure what Kane did 10 years ago has to do with what he is now. He gave up a 2nd and 4th for a PP specialist (to come to a team with an already overstocked PP) who doesn't play defense operating on 1 hip.
But I mean hard to argue with results.


Look at the forwards traded at the deadline. None of them were all that impressive and worth trading for besides Meier. Gave up nothing for Kane pretty much
Aug. 9, 2023 at 2:16 p.m.
#15
Thread Starter
sensonfire
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2021
Posts: 12,202
Likes: 4,595
Quoting: sens65
I highly doubt Tarasenko will waive his NTC at any point this year and even if he did it would only be for a select few teams, thus negatively impacting his value.

If he does get traded, it will be for a 3rd round pick.


Tarasenko was just recently traded to the Rangers for a 1st and a 3rd.

He also had a NTC and would only waive for a few teams.



Why else would a whole 1st round pick be erased from his trade value?
Aug. 9, 2023 at 2:18 p.m.
#16
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2018
Posts: 7,552
Likes: 3,801
Quoting: sensonfire
Tarasenko was just recently traded to the Rangers for a 1st and a 3rd.

He also had a NTC and would only waive for a few teams.



Why else would a whole 1st round pick be erased from his trade value?


He obviously doesn't want to be traded away from Ottawa because he specifically negotiated an NTC into his free agent contract.
Aug. 9, 2023 at 2:21 p.m.
#17
Thread Starter
sensonfire
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2021
Posts: 12,202
Likes: 4,595
Quoting: sens65
He obviously doesn't want to be traded away from Ottawa because he specifically negotiated an NTC into his free agent contract.


Alright.

Then he doesn't get traded.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
sens65 liked this.
Aug. 9, 2023 at 2:24 p.m.
#18
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 6,737
Likes: 1,565
Quoting: Rags21
Look at the forwards traded at the deadline. None of them were all that impressive and worth trading for besides Meier. Gave up nothing for Kane pretty much


You gave up a late 2nd for essentially a replacement level guy lol. If you're asking about guys you could've gotten at the deadline for less that were better the list isn't short: Niederreiter, Engvall, Dadonov, Nyqvist, Vrana.
Aug. 9, 2023 at 8:39 p.m.
#19
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2016
Posts: 10,515
Likes: 3,728
Sensonfire : What do you think of trading Kubalik for a pick (2nd?) instead of making this Joseph trade? (Katchouk might be involved in the TC scandal too)

Have you seen the reasoning?

Kubalik scored 17 of his 45 pts on the PP last season. There's 12 other guys who need PP time (and only 10 spots). Plus, if a forward gets injured, Sokolov is a PP specialist. If a D-man gets injured, Thomson is a PP specialist

Mathieu Joseph has a better scoring rate at ES than Kubalik over the last 2 years. Much better defensively and has Elite PK metrics. Sens need more defensive ability in their forward group, not less.

Quoting: Snowhawk18
Joseph is a $1m - $1.5m player in the current market,

lol NO

Joseph in 2021-22 : 36 pts pace (his 30 pts were at ES or on the PK)
Joseph in 2022-23 : 26 pts pace (15 of his 18 pts were at ES or on the PK)

Pretty good forechecker, good defensive forward and Elite PKer. Worth a lot more than minimum salary. He would have been underpaid in 2021-22 if he had 2.95 AAV

Quoting: Snowhawk18
A $9m cash commitment for the next three seasons is significant and would take more then a 2nd round pick to make me pull the trigger. These two teams/GM’s completed a deal last season where the Hawks were taking on half the money and received a 2nd and 4th.

Zaitsev was a pure cap dump (replacement player level). He was owed a lot more of that "overpaid money" than Joseph, this isn't even close.
Aug. 9, 2023 at 8:53 p.m.
#20
Snowhawk
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2022
Posts: 2,932
Likes: 4,443
Edited Aug. 9, 2023 at 9:25 p.m.
Quoting: Xspyrit
Sensonfire : What do you think of trading Kubalik for a pick (2nd?) instead of making this Joseph trade? (Katchouk might be involved in the TC scandal too)

Have you seen the reasoning?

Kubalik scored 17 of his 45 pts on the PP last season. There's 12 other guys who need PP time (and only 10 spots). Plus, if a forward gets injured, Sokolov is a PP specialist. If a D-man gets injured, Thomson is a PP specialist

Mathieu Joseph has a better scoring rate at ES than Kubalik over the last 2 years. Much better defensively and has Elite PK metrics. Sens need more defensive ability in their forward group, not less.


lol NO

Joseph in 2021-22 : 36 pts pace (his 30 pts were at ES or on the PK)
Joseph in 2022-23 : 26 pts pace (15 of his 18 pts were at ES or on the PK)

Pretty good forechecker, good defensive forward and Elite PKer. Worth a lot more than minimum salary. He would have been underpaid in 2021-22 if he had 2.95 AAV


Zaitsev was a pure cap dump (replacement player level). He was owed a lot more of that "overpaid money" than Joseph, this isn't even close.


Isn’t it funny? Senators fans consistently offering Joseph in trade proposals and when other teams fans reject, they tell us how much of a mistake it is because he is soooo good and valuable… if he is that great, keep him! I’m sure there are other players you can move to create cap space.
Aug. 9, 2023 at 9:07 p.m.
#21
Thread Starter
sensonfire
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2021
Posts: 12,202
Likes: 4,595
Quoting: Xspyrit
Sensonfire : What do you think of trading Kubalik for a pick (2nd?) instead of making this Joseph trade? (Katchouk might be involved in the TC scandal too)



1. With some exceptions, my asking price for Kubalik is indeed a 2nd round pick.

The trick is finding a team that would pay a 2nd for him.



2. When I post the Katchouk trade with Chicago, I decide to give the same presumption of innocence to Katchouk that I give to Batherson.

Given that they are both signed to an NHL contract.

It's been over a year since the investigation was re-opened and I just hope it reaches a conclusion at some point.
Xspyrit liked this.
Aug. 9, 2023 at 9:16 p.m.
#22
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2016
Posts: 10,515
Likes: 3,728
Quoting: sensonfire
1. With some exceptions, my asking price for Kubalik is indeed a 2nd round pick.

The trick is finding a team that would pay a 2nd for him.

2. When I post the Katchouk trade with Chicago, I decide to give the same presumption of innocence to Katchouk that I give to Batherson.

Given that they are both signed to an NHL contract.

It's been over a year since the investigation was re-opened and I just hope it reaches a conclusion at some point.


ok all good but who would you rather have? Kubalik or Joseph?

Considering you'd get a pick for one and pay a pick to move the other, and also considering the team needs (25th at ES last season in GF%)
Aug. 9, 2023 at 9:21 p.m.
#23
Thread Starter
sensonfire
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2021
Posts: 12,202
Likes: 4,595
Quoting: Xspyrit
ok all good but who would you rather have? Kubalik or Joseph?

Considering you'd get a pick for one and pay a pick to move the other, and also considering the team needs (25th at ES last season in GF%)


I'd rather have Kubalik.

And although I'm paying a 2nd to move Joseph, I'm also getting Katchouk and the signing rights to Kayumov.
Aug. 9, 2023 at 9:27 p.m.
#24
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2016
Posts: 10,515
Likes: 3,728
Quoting: Snowhawk18
Isn’t funny, Senators fans consistently offer Joseph in trade proposals and when other teams fans reject, they tell us how much of a mistake it is because he is soooo good and valuable… if he is that great, keep him! I’m sure there are other players you can move to create cap space.

1) No one is saying "he is soooo good"

2) He currently is the victim of the Sens cap crunch as there is not many guys who could be moved. He is NOT a cap dump, he is a cap casualty. You have no idea how bad Dorion is at his job.

3) yes I hope the Sens keep him for his ES production and PK ability. I hope they trade Kubalik instead as his contract is much easier to move and he won't get that much PP time anyway. Rather have a pick than lose one and be better at ES. But Dorion gonna Dorion so not holding my breath

4) My point was more for you to spreading false information. Joseph is not a replacement level player at all.
Aug. 9, 2023 at 9:28 p.m.
#25
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2016
Posts: 10,515
Likes: 3,728
Quoting: sensonfire
I'd rather have Kubalik.

Yeah but

PP : Kubalik > Joseph (Joseph doesn't PP much)
ES : Joseph > Kubalik
PK : Joseph > Kubalik (Kubalik doesn't PK)

Quoting: sensonfire
And although I'm paying a 2nd to move Joseph, I'm also getting Katchouk and the signing rights to Kayumov.

Yeah I could live with that.
sensonfire liked this.
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Submit Poll