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Flames fans would you do it

Created by: Campabee
Team: 2023-24 Calgary Flames
Initial Creation Date: Oct. 10, 2023
Published: Oct. 10, 2023
Salary Cap Mode: Accurate/Prorated
LTIR Enabled: Yes
Season Days: 192
Days Remaining: 191
Season Remaining: 99%
Projected Cap Hit Prior To Days Remaining Tooltip : $85,943,500
Description
Not trying to fleece the Flames but trying to improve the Habs draft odds (forgot to add top 5 protection on the Flames 1st)

What do the Flames get 2 good young NHL D men who aren't up to Tanev's level, a 2nd round pick to compensate for the difference in talent between Tanev and Harris and Kovacevic, 1.5+ mil in cap space which can accrue over the season for TDL additions and a top 9 forward to help improve depth scoring.

What do the Habs get? 2 veteran D who can be moved at the TDL for additional assets, resigned or let walk in the offseason and a 1st round pick for taking Zadorov

Try not to be nasty just looking for constructive feedback
Trades
MTL
  1. Tanev, Christopher
  2. Zadorov, Nikita
  3. 2024 1st round pick (CGY)
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2024
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
2025
Logo of the FLA
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
2026
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the CGY
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
24$83,500,000$78,229,167$0$850,000$5,270,833
Prorated Cap Hit

Roster

Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$10,500,000$10,445,313
LW, RW
NMC
UFA - 8
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$7,000,000$6,963,542
C
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$5,800,000$5,769,792
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$3,100,000$3,083,854
C, LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$5,350,000$5,322,135
C
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$4,900,000$4,874,479
RW, LW
NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,250,000$3,233,073
LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$4,850,000$4,824,740
C, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$925,000$920,182 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$775,000$770,964
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$2,300,000$2,288,021
LW, RW, C
RFA - 1
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$825,000$820,703
RW
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$1,237,500$1,231,055
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$4,550,000$4,526,302
RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$6,000,000$5,968,750
G
NMC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,400,000$1,392,708
LD/RD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$6,250,000$6,217,448
LD/RD
NTC
UFA - 8
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$2,200,000$2,188,542
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$925,000$920,182
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$766,667$762,674
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$762,500$758,529
LD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$762,500$758,529
LW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$2,500,000$2,486,979
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$1,300,000$1,293,229
C
UFA - 1

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Oct. 10, 2023 at 11:11 p.m.
#1
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Forgot to add that I did my best to fill out the lines, if they aren't accurate please forgive me for not knowing the correct order lol
Oct. 10, 2023 at 11:21 p.m.
#2
TrevorA
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Pretty Brutal for the Flames

It’s like offering the equivalent of a 2nd RD Pick + TWO (2x) 3rd RD Picks + a Cap Dump FOR TWO (2x) 1st Round Picks + a 3rd RD Pick. IOW the value is off

Dennis Gilbert for Johnathan Kovacevic, maybe!?
Oct. 10, 2023 at 11:23 p.m.
#3
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Not a Flames fan, but I don’t see the value for them here

Tanev > Harris (definitely arguable though, can see the argument for Harris)
Zadorov > Pearson
1st > 2nd
Kovacevic isn’t enough to make up the difference
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Oct. 10, 2023 at 11:27 p.m.
#4
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Lol what? This makes no sense. Why trade away a 1st while you are selling?
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Oct. 10, 2023 at 11:28 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: mv21227
Not a Flames fan, but I don’t see the value for them here

Tanev > Harris (definitely arguable though, can see the argument for Harris)
Zadorov > Pearson
1st > 2nd
Kovacevic isn’t enough to make up the difference


I agree Tanev is better than Harris (slightly but taking into account contracts and age it comes pretty close to even. I think Zadorov and Kovacevic are also pretty close skill wise but again taking into account age and contracts it pretty well evens it up. Pearson isn't worth a 1st on his own, probably more like a mid/late 2nd but adding the 2nd and taking into account the Flames are saving about 4 mil cap should make up the difference easily. I know it only appears to be 1.5 mil but it's actually 4 since they would be able to remove Kylington from LTIR and start to accrue cap space
Oct. 10, 2023 at 11:38 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Lol what? This makes no sense. Why trade away a 1st while you are selling?


The Flames are barely down grading on D, adding depth scoring, getting a 2nd round pick and saving 4 mil on the cap, you think we should just give you all that while taking back 2 aging players who's contracts are expiring and don't fit our rebuild for free?!
Oct. 10, 2023 at 11:42 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: Campabee
The Flames are barely down grading on D, adding depth scoring getting a 2nd round pick and saving 4 mil on the cap, you think we should just give you all that while taking back 2 aging players who don't fit our rebuild for free?!


Lol barely downgrading on D? Who exactly is a "barely downgrade" on Tanev in that trade.

You realize the main reason Calgary has a chance of contending is their top 5 d-core in the league right?
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Oct. 10, 2023 at 11:46 p.m.
#8
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Edited Oct. 10, 2023 at 11:53 p.m.
Its pretty bad for the flames my dude.
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Oct. 10, 2023 at 11:48 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Lol barely downgrading on D? Who exactly is a "barely downgrade" on Tanev in that trade.

You realize the main reason Calgary has a chance of contending is their top 5 d-core in the league right?


Harris is only a slight downgrade from Tanev, is younger, cheaper and under team control for another 2 years after his contract expires, all that makes up the difference in skill. Zadorov and Kovacevic basically had the same point totals on teams at opposite ends of the spectrum and both are good stay at game defensemen. There is a slight downgrade on D of course cause you have Tanev there but you make up for it in cap space, age, team controlled years and being able to accrue cap space for deadline moves
Oct. 10, 2023 at 11:53 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: Campabee
I agree Tanev is better than Harris (slightly but taking into account contracts and age it comes pretty close to even. I think Zadorov and Kovacevic are also pretty close skill wise but again taking into account age and contracts it pretty well evens it up. Pearson isn't worth a 1st on his own, probably more like a mid/late 2nd but adding the 2nd and taking into account the Flames are saving about 4 mil cap should make up the difference easily. I know it only appears to be 1.5 mil but it's actually 4 since they would be able to remove Kylington from LTIR and start to accrue cap space


Pearson isn’t worth a mid/late 2nd. He has negative value. That’s why the Canucks had to add a 3rd on to him to acquire Desmith
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Oct. 10, 2023 at 11:58 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: CorrosionRF
Its pretty bad for the flames my dude


Without running down the Habs players by saying they suck why exactly is this so bad? I don't get the hate for it Zadorov had 21 points in 82 games on a top 20 team, Kovacevic had 15 points in 77 games on the 5th worst team both are good defensively but Zadorov makes almost 4 times as much and is like 2 years older that pretty much makes Kovacevic more desirable. Harris already outscored Tanev in basically the same number of games is 11 years younger and is a very good cerebral player. He is team controlled for 4 years and cost controlled for the next 2 at like 3 times less than Tanev. Pearson would be a great addition to the third line and year you have to downgrade from a mid/late 1st to an early 2nd but thats the cost for saving cap space
Oct. 10, 2023 at 11:59 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: mv21227
Pearson isn’t worth a mid/late 2nd. He has negative value. That’s why the Canucks had to add a 3rd on to him to acquire Desmith


The third was added for the cap savings had their cap hits been equal it would likely have been 1 for 1
Oct. 11, 2023 at 12:04 a.m.
#13
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You all keep forgetting the Habs perspective here. We aren't going to be keeping either of Tanev or Zadorov past this season to us they are basically stopgaps used to facilitate this trade. Getting younger, cheaper team controlled assets and clearing cap space should make Flames fans ecstatic.
Oct. 11, 2023 at 12:05 a.m.
#14
TrevorA
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Edited Oct. 11, 2023 at 12:16 a.m.
Quoting: Campabee
Harris is only a slight downgrade from Tanev, is younger, cheaper and under team control for another 2 years after his contract expires, all that makes up the difference in skill. Zadorov and Kovacevic basically had the same point totals on teams at opposite ends of the spectrum and both are good stay at game defensemen. There is a slight downgrade on D of course cause you have Tanev there but you make up for it in cap space, age, team controlled years and being able to accrue cap space for deadline moves

The Flames aren’t looking to downgrade, they’re pushing for the Playoffs. IOW Tanev’s skill is far more valuable to the Flames than the intangibles you listed

Kovacevic is nowhere near the player Zadorov is, nor does he bring the same size, physicality, strength, hitting or fighting ability. He’s a 3RD/7th D-Man. He hasn’t done any more than Dennis Gilbert has for the Avalanche and Flames in his career

Does MTL really need more Picks/Prospects at this point to plug up the system, it seems as though they have enough quality prospects to find opportunities for to play and develop

And why would a rebuilding team want “Aging Veterans” to take spots away from their upcoming prospects and their development towards their rebuild!?

Trade just makes no sense for either team and the value simply & highly favours MTL
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Oct. 11, 2023 at 12:34 a.m.
#15
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Edited Oct. 11, 2023 at 12:43 a.m.
Quoting: Campabee
Without running down the Habs players by saying they suck why exactly is this so bad? I don't get the hate for it Zadorov had 21 points in 82 games on a top 20 team, Kovacevic had 15 points in 77 games on the 5th worst team both are good defensively but Zadorov makes almost 4 times as much and is like 2 years older that pretty much makes Kovacevic more desirable. Harris already outscored Tanev in basically the same number of games is 11 years younger and is a very good cerebral player. He is team controlled for 4 years and cost controlled for the next 2 at like 3 times less than Tanev. Pearson would be a great addition to the third line and year you have to downgrade from a mid/late 1st to an early 2nd but thats the cost for saving cap space


1) lemme just get Pearson out of the way. They don't need him, your argument in other comments is that he provides depth scoring. Flames have plenty of depth scoring, what they need is top end talent. Tanner Pearson is many things top end talent isn't one of them. 2) Tanevs value isn't at all based in scoring, sure its nice when he does it but thats not what he is here for. He is here for leadership (Intangible. I won't claim to know if Harris is considered a leader on the Habs) and defensive capability. Example: In 65 games Chris Tanev blocked 130 shots and in the same amount of games Harris blocked 98. Tanev has a higher TOI, Higher shots blocked per 60, more takeaways, Tanev also has more giveaways than Harris I'll give you that. Tanev fits more of what the Flames need My point being Harris would be the type of player in a deal to acquire Tanev and given that the 1st is going MTLs way it seems you think it should be the other way around. 3) Zadorov and Kovacevic look fairly even. I can't find anything that one does significantly better than the other. Zadorov has more points but only like 6 more so it isn't really anything too deep. 4) The Flames are not so desperate for cap space that they need to use first to move two good NHL assets. They might not be assets to the Habs who are rebuilding but they are assets to contenders and that's who they'd move them to if it came to it. They have 5 pending ufas right now, I don't think capspace will end up being too big of an issue.

Just kinda feels like you are pumping your guys tires a little too much. This trade heavily favors MTL and I feel like you know that.
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Oct. 11, 2023 at 2:31 a.m.
#16
Syd Barret
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Wow this this is horrific for the flames .
I wouldn’t even do this trade if it’s was just for Calgary’s 1st rounder alone . Woof
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Oct. 11, 2023 at 2:40 a.m.
#17
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Yeah, gotta agree with the rest of the room, this is terrible for Calgary. Asking them to downgrade AND add a 1st on top of it?
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Oct. 11, 2023 at 2:43 a.m.
#18
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Tanev > Harris
Zadorov > Kovacevich

Pearson is a straight up cap dump AND you want us to just hand you a first?

No, we wouldn't do it. Not in 3000000000000000000 years.
Oct. 11, 2023 at 2:44 a.m.
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Quoting: Campabee
You all keep forgetting the Habs perspective here. We aren't going to be keeping either of Tanev or Zadorov past this season to us they are basically stopgaps used to facilitate this trade. Getting younger, cheaper team controlled assets and clearing cap space should make Flames fans ecstatic.


Why would we be ecstatic to clear space if we don't need to? We could get a first alone for Tanev at the TDL and picks/young players for Zadorov. This trade is just bad
Oct. 11, 2023 at 7:13 a.m.
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Quoting: CorrosionRF
1) lemme just get Pearson out of the way. They don't need him, your argument in other comments is that he provides depth scoring. Flames have plenty of depth scoring, what they need is top end talent. Tanner Pearson is many things top end talent isn't one of them. 2) Tanevs value isn't at all based in scoring, sure its nice when he does it but thats not what he is here for. He is here for leadership (Intangible. I won't claim to know if Harris is considered a leader on the Habs) and defensive capability. Example: In 65 games Chris Tanev blocked 130 shots and in the same amount of games Harris blocked 98. Tanev has a higher TOI, Higher shots blocked per 60, more takeaways, Tanev also has more giveaways than Harris I'll give you that. Tanev fits more of what the Flames need My point being Harris would be the type of player in a deal to acquire Tanev and given that the 1st is going MTLs way it seems you think it should be the other way around. 3) Zadorov and Kovacevic look fairly even. I can't find anything that one does significantly better than the other. Zadorov has more points but only like 6 more so it isn't really anything too deep. 4) The Flames are not so desperate for cap space that they need to use first to move two good NHL assets. They might not be assets to the Habs who are rebuilding but they are assets to contenders and that's who they'd move them to if it came to it. They have 5 pending ufas right now, I don't think capspace will end up being too big of an issue.

Just kinda feels like you are pumping your guys tires a little too much. This trade heavily favors MTL and I feel like you know that.


Not pumping them at all, I was just saying that they weren't that much worse than the Flames players like Ledge_And_Dairy was claiming they were. I totally get the leadership thing (we have Gally after all lol) and respect that as a reason to keep Tanev. I don't know whether or not Harris is a leader on the team myself lol. Fair enough about the top end talent comment as well, Habs fans know all about that need lol. I wasn't really meaning that the Flames need to clear cap but it is a huge bonus to have in this day and age. The other thing is once Kylington is healthy the Flames are gonna need to clear cap, I will admit though I don't know when he is supposed to be healthy if at all this season.

Thank you for giving a well thought out response without just saying it's cause the Flames guys are so much better, I do appreciate it. When someone starts bashing Habs player I get argumentative as you can probably tell already lol.
Oct. 11, 2023 at 8:35 a.m.
#21
LBS
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Quoting: Campabee
Forgot to add that I did my best to fill out the lines, if they aren't accurate please forgive me for not knowing the correct order lol


I can see where you're coming from, in terms of value Tanev and Harris are fairly even, Tanev is better right now but, given Harris' age and that he has team control in closes the gap in value. Zadorov is better but, not by much over Kovacevic, he's a nice player if he can improve he might end up as a Tanev type player but isn't right now. Pearson hasn't really played recently so his value is essentially zero right now and as others have said he doesn't really bring anything to the Flames that they don't already have but, I know he's really in the deal because the Habs need to send some cap back to make the deal work for them.
You lose me and everyone else with the picks IMO the Flames edge out the Habs in value and yet somehow you have the Flames sending the Habs a 1st which I think is where the major uproar is coming from.
Also the Flames are a team looking to bounce back, Tanev and Zadorov fit what the Falmes what to accomplish more than Harris and Kovacevic
Oct. 11, 2023 at 9:02 a.m.
#22
Mr.
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so montreal is doing all of this and giving up so much just to upgrade a 2nd to a 1st ?1
Oct. 11, 2023 at 10:11 a.m.
#23
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Quoting: lowblocksniper
I can see where you're coming from, in terms of value Tanev and Harris are fairly even, Tanev is better right now but, given Harris' age and that he has team control in closes the gap in value. Zadorov is better but, not by much over Kovacevic, he's a nice player if he can improve he might end up as a Tanev type player but isn't right now. Pearson hasn't really played recently so his value is essentially zero right now and as others have said he doesn't really bring anything to the Flames that they don't already have but, I know he's really in the deal because the Habs need to send some cap back to make the deal work for them.
You lose me and everyone else with the picks IMO the Flames edge out the Habs in value and yet somehow you have the Flames sending the Habs a 1st which I think is where the major uproar is coming from.
Also the Flames are a team looking to bounce back, Tanev and Zadorov fit what the Falmes what to accomplish more than Harris and Kovacevic


Thank you for the explanation, I wasn't trying to cause an uproar lol. Pearson doesn't have to be added to the trade for cap purposes as the Habs have more than enough LTIR space to take on the Flames players, it was more that I saw a fit on the 3rd line for the flames and freeing up a roster spot for one of our younger guys. As for the picks I know it's a downgrade but I just kind of assumed that going from a mid late 1st to an early 2nd would be worth it since the Flames are getting valuable cap space and the ability to accrue more TDL space with this type of move they would accrue about 6 mil for the deadline, maybe I overvalued that. Also the 24 draft is pretty thin and the 25 draft is supposed to be a bit deeper so I was taking that into account as well, figuring the quality of prospect in the late 1st round this year would be about the same as the quality in the 25 2nd round
Oct. 11, 2023 at 11:32 a.m.
#24
LBS
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Quoting: Campabee
Thank you for the explanation, I wasn't trying to cause an uproar lol. Pearson doesn't have to be added to the trade for cap purposes as the Habs have more than enough LTIR space to take on the Flames players, it was more that I saw a fit on the 3rd line for the flames and freeing up a roster spot for one of our younger guys. As for the picks I know it's a downgrade but I just kind of assumed that going from a mid late 1st to an early 2nd would be worth it since the Flames are getting valuable cap space and the ability to accrue more TDL space with this type of move they would accrue about 6 mil for the deadline, maybe I overvalued that. Also the 24 draft is pretty thin and the 25 draft is supposed to be a bit deeper so I was taking that into account as well, figuring the quality of prospect in the late 1st round this year would be about the same as the quality in the 25 2nd round


That's fair, the Flames needing to make moves at the TDL would be based on how Coronato and Pelletier play this season, Coronato looked good in preseason so hopes and expectations are high.
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