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Dorion gone-- wow

Created by: Kyle_Okposo_Lover
Team: 2023-24 Ottawa Senators
Initial Creation Date: Nov. 1, 2023
Published: Nov. 1, 2023
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
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DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2024
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2025
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2026
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
21$83,500,000$73,884,047$0$1,850,000$9,615,953
Left WingCentreRight Wing
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$8,205,714$8,205,714
LW
UFA - 5
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$8,350,000$8,350,000
C
UFA - 8
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$6,500,000$6,500,000
RW, C
NMC
UFA - 2
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$2,950,000$2,950,000
LW, RW
UFA - 3
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$7,950,000$7,950,000
C
UFA - 7
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$2,500,000$2,500,000
RW
NTC
UFA - 1
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$2,500,000$2,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
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$863,333$863,333
C, LW
RFA - 2
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$4,975,000$4,975,000
RW, LW
UFA - 4
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$762,500$762,500
LW
RFA - 1
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$775,000$775,000
C
UFA - 1
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$835,000$835,000
C, RW
RFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$1,850,000$2M)
LD
UFA - 1
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$4,600,000$4,600,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 4
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$4,000,000$4,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 5
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$4,600,000$4,600,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
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$805,000$805,000
RD
RFA - 2
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$2,750,000$2,750,000
G
UFA - 2
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$2,000,000$2,000,000
LD/RD, LW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$1,100,000$1,100,000
RD
NMC
UFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
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$916,667$916,667
LD
RFA - 2
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$8,000,000$8,000,000
LD
UFA - 5

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Nov. 2, 2023 at 8:51 a.m.
#26
Leafs going to Leafs
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Joined: Dec. 2022
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Quoting: GMBL
Giroux is definitely worth the 6.5M AAV. Had he been underperforming, his contract is far from being a boat anchor with him just having a year left on his contract. Not having him would have allowed them to re-sign Tarasenko (forgot to mention him), which boils down to having one less top 6 player for a year. Losing a 32-year-old top-6 fwd who was a FA signing wouldn't be nearly as devastating as losing Chychrun at 27 to FA which could potentially happen if Giroux had an additional year on his deal. The good news for OTT, is that Giroux is very much still a top-6 forward, and he brings a lot of those intangibles that they will need in the playoffs if they make it when he's still around, and his contract expires before they need to make any major signings of proven players. The Korpisalo signing, on the other hand, can definitely turn into a boat anchor. I would give it 2-2.5 years before judging that signing.

Not sure what you mean about ADB and Stutzle being basically the same player, but one's a pure goal scorer and the other a playmaker, so it's not a stretch as to why he would think it would work out. That being said, like half of Dorion's moves that involve a 1st, this didn't work out. Dorion is not the guy you want to dealing first-round picks, but my point was that on paper he put together a solid squad. I wouldn't give too much criticism on him for trading the 7th OV pick that year for him considering that there was a higher probability that they misdraft that year with the limited scouting information due to Covid (players playing less in the year prior + the draft year, restricted travel, etc...).

They did need a top/middle pairing RD, and they got Chychrun who isn't exactly what they needed but was advertised as being able to fit that need. If they can retain him it will be solid work done. I wouldn't have been surprised if Dorion got embarrassed in two years with Chychrun leaving but now that he's gone he can't be blamed if it does happen. I'm glad the Leafs didn't get him because the cost definitely wouldn't have been equivalent to what OTT gave, and I suspect that he would continue getting injured and/or not be nearly as good as advertised.

The cost for ADB and JC was reasonable overall, the only problem is that 1) they didn't manage to retain DeBrincat (good thing he didn't feel pressured to sign him though) although they at least were able to recuperate a 1st and 2) they didn't get anything good out of having him, not even an opportunity at making a run.

Pinto thing isn't a big deal, he's a good young player who just can't get paid at this time, and with his suspension, it looks better that they didn't pay to dump someone just to fit him. The Joseph-Greig-Tarasenko line has been great for them so they aren't missing him too much probably. Sure, they probably would want Pinto in over Kubalik but it is what it is, in terms of where they were last year, they haven't gotten worse. The problem is likely that they haven't gotten much better.

The DeBrincat ordeal is a bit of a red flag, in terms of Dorion not being able to retain him, but the guy had a terrible year so it's not surprising that it would have been difficult. Other than the fact that Dorion is a mediocre GM, whose amazing moves are nullified by bad ones, I would say that Dorion has been on thin ice and had the chance to maybe get a clean slate if the team continued to improve with new ownership but the Dadonov thing definitely ended him and possibly any chance of him getting a GM job again. Maybe he will be in the FO in some other role but I doubt as the GM.


My point is that if that the "big" moves Dorion made last year has a overall negative impact on the team... Especially considering the core is locked up to 40 million dollars in 5 players... Giroux isn't doing enough to make 6.5/42.5 of those remaining money and Dorion didn't get half the assets back for ADB that they gave up... Both those moves don't get forgotten about bc of the solid trade for Chychrun

As for the ADB and Stuzle thing... I'm not saying they are the same player, I am saying that they tend to go to the same spots... Which makes them easier to defend...
GMBL liked this.
Nov. 2, 2023 at 10:33 a.m.
#27
Thread Starter
Josh Anderson Sucks
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Quoting: jpsnow13
I can show you many evidences of teams firing GMs during the season first and switching coaches afterward, but I can't understand good management pratices for you.


Quoting: jpsnow13
I can show you many evidences of teams firing GMs during the season first and switching coaches afterward, but I can't understand good management pratices for you.


ok then do it. Show me

That makes zero sense bro what why r u so upset
Nov. 2, 2023 at 2:04 p.m.
#28
You know nothing JS
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Quoting: Kyle_Okposo_Lover
ok then do it. Show me

That makes zero sense bro what why r u so upset


Bro, I just did, can't you read?
Nov. 2, 2023 at 2:36 p.m.
#29
Thread Starter
Josh Anderson Sucks
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Quoting: jpsnow13
Bro, I just did, can't you read?


you gave me names? You gave me three examples of coaches, with two of them being interim basis and the third being a planned hiring where a team kept their coach longer than they needed to so the new one didnt get blamed...

No GMs, no real examples
Nov. 2, 2023 at 2:36 p.m.
#30
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Edited Nov. 2, 2023 at 2:41 p.m.
Quoting: Leafsfan98
My point is that if that the "big" moves Dorion made last year has a overall negative impact on the team... Especially considering the core is locked up to 40 million dollars in 5 players... Giroux isn't doing enough to make 6.5/42.5 of those remaining money and Dorion didn't get half the assets back for ADB that they gave up... Both those moves don't get forgotten about bc of the solid trade for Chychrun

As for the ADB and Stuzle thing... I'm not saying they are the same player, I am saying that they tend to go to the same spots... Which makes them easier to defend...


Giroux is 3 points off a PPG in his time in Ottawa and he took a large portion of faceoffs for Stutzle as well. Not sure what more you want out of him.

I think where Dorion gets a knock on the ADB ordeal is more so on the inability to retain him not really acquiring him/trading away. His overall work though since being the GM hasn't been good though, probably a C or C-, maybe a C+. I would say it's kind of harsh to say that his additions last year were overall negative, Chychrun didn't really make an impact coming in late, but their team improved last year in terms of standing. This year, so far, they have taken a step back instead of another step forward.

I do wonder though if the new ownership and president, gave him a clean slate, if he was on thin ice already, or they just took the opportunity to bring in their own guy.
Nov. 3, 2023 at 11:32 a.m.
#31
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Edited Nov. 3, 2023 at 11:44 a.m.
Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
I was told he built a cup contender all offseason

Maybe casual fans would tell you that but regardless, this team has a LOT of potential but it is IN SPITE of Dorion. All he has done is hurt the progress, the contention length and potential of the team with his constant mismanagement, complete lack of foresight and inexistent asset management

He started the rebuild with these pieces for trade : Erik Karlsson, Mark Stone, Matt Duchene, JG Pageau, Derick Brassard, Ryan Dzingel, Mike Hoffman and Cody Ceci

Brassard was the oldest at 30 y/o, all in their prime and close to their peak value

He also had a good prospect pool with Chabot, Batherson, Formenton, Paul, White, etc

Plus, he had 5 years of Top-10 picks (and one 12th OA)... Any GM can cumulate youth wealth during a rebuild but that is not the only part of the job to become successful

Quoting: Leafsfan98
Giroux: boat anchor contract at 6.5 mill

ADB: doesn't work out when Stuzle is basically the same player and therefore takes ADB's suits and vice versa

Chychrun: Pretty good, wish the Leafs got him... But he's not what Ottawa needs... They need depth, RHD and a goalie...

And think of what it costed to get those assets: 2 1sts (1 being a top 10 and the other was a top 15 pick), 3 2nds and a 3rd... As well as 17 mill in cap space...

Then you add in the Pinto thing and the basic thing of transferring someone's M-NTC and Dorion gets fired

lol wtf? Giroux scored his highest goals total in CAREER last season and was PPG. And he's again PPG so far this season. I WISH we had more Giroux types. RIDICULOUS claim but it's not like I'm not used to it coming from you

DeBrincat and Stutzle are NOT the same player at all, again a LESS than amateurish take. Not even worth explaining. If I remember correctly, you thought Stutzle was a still a winger a few months ago tears of joy

Chychrun is absolutely what the Sens needed. What they would have needed is a better RHD than Hamonic to help out Zub, but with how Dorion has managed everything for years adn 5 M$ in dead cap, could only afford Hamonic.

Giroux + Chychrun + DeBrincat are ABSOLUTELY worth 7th OA + 12th OA + three 2nds and a 3rd and 17 M$ in cap space

There's a million other reasons why Dorion was really bad at his job but you somehow completely missed...
 
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