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Chatting with Flames Execs

Created by: Rajvinder
Team: 2023-24 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Nov. 7, 2023
Published: Nov. 7, 2023
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Has a chat with a few Flames execs about Tre.
A few things to note:
1. Guy believes in building teams in the off-season.
2. He hates in-season trades, averaged 3 per season in Calgary.
3. Thinks the biggest mistakes are made at the deadline. Aside from the year that Johnny was a pending UFA he never made a major deadline deal.
4. He's only trade one 1st round pick in season.
5. He likes small moves to round out his team of trading a 2nd for an undervalued impact player.
6. Even in years the Flames made the playoffs he sold players he didn't like. He will move on if things aren't working.
7. He's never traded a 1st for a rental (pending UFA).

Based on this and no tangible trade rumours I'll make a few predictions.
Free Agent Signings
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$1,000,000
Trades
1.
TOR
  1. Frederic, Trent
  2. 2025 3rd round pick (BOS)
Additional Details:
Boston can add another 3rd to get someone to pickup half of Bert's deal. His salary is league min so mid season it's just 200k in real money.
2.
CGY
  1. Klingberg, John
  2. Minten, Fraser
  3. 2024 1st round pick (TOR)
  4. 2025 3rd round pick (TOR)
3.
SJS
  1. 2024 7th round pick (TOR)
Buried
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2024
Logo of the NYI
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the CHI
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the OTT
2025
Logo of the BOS
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the CHI
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2026
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$83,500,000$83,468,950$0$0$31,050
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
LW, RW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,640,250$11,640,250
C
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$10,903,000$10,903,000
RW
NMC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 2
$1,000,000$1,000,000
RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$796,667$796,667
LW, RW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,000,000$3,000,000
C, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,100,000$2,100,000
RW, C, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Boston Bruins
$2,300,000$2,300,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,400,000$2,400,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$775,000$775,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$1,100,000$1,100,000
RW, LW
RFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$7,500,000$7,500,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 7
Logo of the Calgary Flames
$6,250,000$6,250,000
LD/RD
NTC
UFA - 8
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$766,667$766,667
G
RFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$800,000$800,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,550,000$3,550,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,000,000$2,000,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,400,000$1,400,000
RD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,100,000$1,100,000
RD
RFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,625,000$5,625,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,687,500$4,687,500
G
M-NTC
UFA - 1

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Nov. 7, 2023 at 8:00 p.m.
#1
GM CRIME DAWG
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Freddy & the pick, are both playing better than TB55...
His BOS-ship sailed, you guys got 'em now, enjoy.
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Nov. 7, 2023 at 8:08 p.m.
#2
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No thank you.
Nov. 7, 2023 at 8:09 p.m.
#3
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Boston would do this in a heartbeat. The "slumping" or "horrible" Bert has the same points as "career year" Freddy.

Toronto probably wants more in return. And by more, I mean a 2nd (maybe even a 1st).
Nov. 7, 2023 at 8:13 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: McGruff
Freddy & the pick, are both playing better than TB55...
His BOS-ship sailed, you guys got 'em now, enjoy.


Seconded.
-similar production between the two this year
-Bert is a wing, Frederic can and has played center effectively for Boston
-Frederic is the better player defensively
-Frederic is younger
-Frederic is more physical, fights
-Frederic has more term at less than half the AAV, even if Bert is retained at 50% he's more expensive
-Boston already let Bertuzzi walk
-why should Boston add to the deal when they will have to find a team to retain on Bertuzzi?
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Nov. 7, 2023 at 8:17 p.m.
#5
CGY
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Toronto doesn't have many 2ndd or 3rd's in the coming drafts.

As you said, Treliving doesn't like to move 1st's. He may have to, if he wants to make a splash at the TDL.



There's a teardown coming to Calgary. They will need players, which is why I don't think they can move Weegar. Term will be valuable to Calgary.
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Nov. 7, 2023 at 8:30 p.m.
#6
GM CRIME DAWG
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Quoting: fangm
Boston would do this in a heartbeat. The "slumping" or "horrible" Bert has the same points as "career year" Freddy.

Toronto probably wants more in return. And by more, I mean a 2nd (maybe even a 1st).


A 1st...
Let me get the # of your dealer please I'm running a little low on product...
Cheers
Nov. 7, 2023 at 8:36 p.m.
#7
Banned
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Can’t see Calgary accepting and leaf’s decline boston
Nov. 7, 2023 at 8:53 p.m.
#8
fromtherivertothesea
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Tell him to give 7X7 to Henrique next summer.
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Nov. 7, 2023 at 9:31 p.m.
#9
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Can't say I agree with the other Bruins fans on here that the Bruins wouldn't want Bertuzzi back, but they certainly wouldn't be making this trade. I could see them going after him in the offseason. But they are not giving up Freddy for him, let alone a pick on top of that. It totally disrupts the roster construction this season and in the future.

In a season where no one has cap space, the risk of taking a chance on a guy with Bertuzzi's salary is much higher, and I think the Toronto fans who are expecting a haul in return for him are completely ignoring that. It isn't just that the team trading for him may lose the deal in terms of assets given away, you might actually torpedo your season if he doesn't get out of his funk because you won't be able to make any other moves. And after that is all said and done, he will be a UFA. Unless he gets out of his funk, it is a high risk move.
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Nov. 7, 2023 at 9:36 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: tupty
Can't say I agree with the other Bruins fans on here that the Bruins wouldn't want Bertuzzi back, but they certainly wouldn't be making this trade. I could see them going after him in the offseason. But they are not giving up Freddy for him, let alone a pick on top of that. It totally disrupts the roster construction this season and in the future.

In a season where no one has cap space, the risk of taking a chance on a guy with Bertuzzi's salary is much higher, and I think the Toronto fans who are expecting a haul in return for him are completely ignoring that. It isn't just that the team trading for him may lose the deal in terms of assets given away, you might actually torpedo your season if he doesn't get out of his funk because you won't be able to make any other moves. And after that is all said and done, he will be a UFA. Unless he gets out of his funk, it is a high risk move.


The poster said 50% retained so Boston is taking on like $400k in cap.
Nov. 7, 2023 at 9:53 p.m.
#11
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I’ve suggested Frederic / Forbort for Bertuzzi (and enough money to not lose a roster spot). I’d do that deal, but that’s me.

The open challenge is Bertuzzi’s agent badly misread the market and basically forced a situation where they wanted him to not being willing to take him. I’m not sure they give up that package with the belief that he’s a rental.
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Nov. 7, 2023 at 9:55 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: fangm
The poster said 50% retained so Boston is taking on like $400k in cap.


Ah, you are correct, and if they do that it is certainly reduce the risk. But the fact that Toronto isn't the one retaining (implied by the original post) would still mean that the return wouldn't improve for Toronto, it would just be spread out to a third team.

Also, I still wouldn't trade RFA Freddy for pending UFA Bert, so in my world the cap would still be an issue for Boston. I'm not sure how they could resolve it because Boston is in cap hell this year, and I wouldn't want to trade any of the individual Boston players that have comparable salaries.
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Nov. 7, 2023 at 10:01 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: Celtics21
I’ve suggested Frederic / Forbort for Bertuzzi (and enough money to not lose a roster spot). I’d do that deal, but that’s me.

The open challenge is Bertuzzi’s agent badly misread the market and basically forced a situation where they wanted him to not being willing to take him. I’m not sure they give up that package with the belief that he’s a rental.


I forgot about Forbort. If it was just Forbort for Bertuzzi with retention by someone, I'd be willing to toss in a few late round picks. I still wouldn't give up a 1st or 2nd. Maybe a 3rd to TOR and a 4th to the team retaining? If it takes more than that, then I am out.
Nov. 7, 2023 at 10:54 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: fangm
The poster said 50% retained so Boston is taking on like $400k in cap.


He also said Boston should use another 3rd to get it. So it's Frederic and 2 3rds. Does Boston like Bertuzzi? Yes, but not enough to have to bring in a 3rd team to retain just to get the difference in skill between Bertuzzi and Frederic. That is just bad asset management
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Nov. 7, 2023 at 11:13 p.m.
#15
fromtherivertothesea
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I mean Bertuzzi over Frederic everyday no?
Nov. 7, 2023 at 11:52 p.m.
#16
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Quoting: future_gm
I mean Bertuzzi over Frederic everyday no?


That is a gross oversimplification. Since you mentioned days, how about we circle July 1st 2024 on the calendar as the main day I'd rather have Freddy.

Bertuzzi can clearly bring more points than Freddy when he is on his game, but he has defensive deficiencies and his availability is always going to be a concern. This was a constant conversation in the Boston fanbase in the offseason when the Bruins were trying to bring him back. Freddy has a different set of issues and a different set of assets than Bert.

I know Boston is off to a strong start, but is anyone out there picking Boston as the favorites to win the cup right now? I am certainly not. I'd rather not mortgage the future of the team in when we are openly trying to retool. I still see Freddy as part of the Boston top 9 for the foreseeable future. If Boston can bring back Bert somehow, I'd welcome him back with open arms at the right price. But giving up multiple years of Freddy for a season of Bert isn't a good idea, particularly when the Bruins aren't likely cup contenders and when he has been struggling.
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Nov. 8, 2023 at 12:06 a.m.
#17
fromtherivertothesea
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Quoting: tupty
That is a gross oversimplification. Since you mentioned days, how about we circle July 1st 2024 on the calendar as the main day I'd rather have Freddy.

Bertuzzi can clearly bring more points than Freddy when he is on his game, but he has defensive deficiencies and his availability is always going to be a concern. This was a constant conversation in the Boston fanbase in the offseason when the Bruins were trying to bring him back. Freddy has a different set of issues and a different set of assets than Bert.

I know Boston is off to a strong start, but is anyone out there picking Boston as the favorites to win the cup right now? I am certainly not. I'd rather not mortgage the future of the team in when we are openly trying to retool. I still see Freddy as part of the Boston top 9 for the foreseeable future. If Boston can bring back Bert somehow, I'd welcome him back with open arms at the right price. But giving up multiple years of Freddy for a season of Bert isn't a good idea, particularly when the Bruins aren't likely cup contenders and when he has been struggling.


What about JVR + 3RD
Nov. 8, 2023 at 12:23 a.m.
#18
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Quoting: future_gm
What about JVR + 3RD


I'd probably do that if there was some way to make the cap work, but JVR's cap hit is so much lower than Bert's that Toronto and a 3rd party would both need to retain.
Nov. 8, 2023 at 8:44 a.m.
#19
fromtherivertothesea
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Quoting: tupty
I'd probably do that if there was some way to make the cap work, but JVR's cap hit is so much lower than Bert's that Toronto and a 3rd party would both need to retain.


Yeah true the cap will likely be a problem. Could be gived to have Geekie in the deal.
Nov. 8, 2023 at 9:38 a.m.
#20
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Quoting: future_gm
I mean Bertuzzi over Frederic everyday no?


It depends on the role.

If you want a forechecking physical two way player who is defensively responsible and does the dirty work in the corners, give me Freddy. There is the added benefit that he’s signed for next year at a below market rate and when he plays with Coyle, their stats go to another level,

If you want the skilled passer and terrific net front guy who doesn’t play defense, you choose Bertuzzi. The challenge is Bertuzzi had the ability to stay in Boston long term and his agent misread the market. Kind of view him as a mercenary type player willing to go anywhere for the right price. With our draft capital, I prefer to wait for FA for those types.

That said, Sweeney did offer him a long term contract and it woild have probably impacted at minimum two of Grz, Frederic, Forbort, and Geekie if he would have signed it. Maybe JDB, but I doubt it.

Quoting: future_gm
What about JVR + 3RD


I’m of the belief that signing vets to low contracts is an important part of competing in the cap era. My general philosophy is I don’t trade those players unless they ask. It just leads to a better value proposition when you are pursuing the next one
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