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Flames Reset - Trading Lindholm-Hanifin-Tanev-Dube

Created by: KingofRnR
Team: 2023-24 Calgary Flames
Initial Creation Date: Nov. 9, 2023
Published: Nov. 9, 2023
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Okay, Go Ahead, Blast Away!!!
Trades
1.
CGY
  1. Bean, Jake
  2. Ceulemans, Corson
  3. Peeke, Andrew
  4. Sillinger, Cole
  5. 2024 1st round pick (CBJ)
Additional Details:
Pick is Top-5 Protected
CBJ
  1. Boltmann, Jake [Reserve List]
  2. Lindholm, Elias
  3. Oesterle, Jordan
Additional Details:
Lindholm Extends with CLB
2.
3.
CGY
  1. Abruzzese, Nick
  2. Järnkrok, Calle
  3. Lajoie, Maxime
  4. Liljegren, Timothy
  5. Villeneuve, William
Additional Details:
Abruzzese (Coronato), Lajoie (Calgary Born) and Villeneuve (Poirier/Kuznetsov) are essentially throw ins
TOR
  1. Emilio Pettersen, Mathias
  2. Lyle, Brady
  3. Poolman, Colton
  4. Strömgren, William
  5. Tanev, Christopher ($2,250,000 retained)
Additional Details:
Tanev extends @ $3-3.25mil/2-3yrs. MEP, Lyle & Poolman are Contract Swaps for the Throw-ins. Stromgren is to even out for Liljegren, otherwise we could offer a 3rd RD Pick instead
4.
CGY
  1. Dumba, Matt
  2. Kipkie, Justin [Reserve List]
  3. Langlois, Jérémy [Reserve List]
  4. Söderström, Victor
  5. 2024 1st round pick (ARI)
Additional Details:
Pick is Top-5 Protected. I don’t think Dumba’s a Good a fit in ARI
ARI
  1. Hanifin, Noah
Additional Details:
Doesn’t have to be ARI, but I think they could really use a Veteran Top-4 Defensemen
5.
CGY
  1. 2024 1st round pick (TOR)
TOR
    Should have been a 1st in the above Trade with TOR
    Retained Salary Transactions
    DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
    2024
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the CBJ
    Logo of the ARI
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the CGY
    2025
    Logo of the FLA
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the CGY
    2026
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the CGY
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    24$83,500,000$82,222,499$0$1,077,500$1,277,501
    Left WingCentreRight Wing
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $10,500,000$10,500,000
    LW, RW
    NMC
    UFA - 8
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $5,350,000$5,350,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the San Jose Sharks
    $3,000,000$3,000,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $5,800,000$5,800,000
    RW, LW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $762,500$762,500
    LW, C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $4,900,000$4,900,000
    RW, LW
    NTC
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$212,500$212K)
    LW, C
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $7,000,000$7,000,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 6
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $3,100,000$3,100,000
    C, LW, RW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $775,000$775,000
    RW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $2,100,000$2,100,000
    RW, C, LW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $825,000$825,000
    RW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $762,500$762,500
    RW, LW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
    $925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
    C
    RFA - 1
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $6,250,000$6,250,000
    LD/RD
    NTC
    UFA - 8
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $4,550,000$4,550,000
    RD
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $2,200,000$2,200,000
    G
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $3,750,000$3,750,000
    LD/RD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
    $3,900,000$3,900,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $6,000,000$6,000,000
    G
    NMC
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
    $2,333,333$2,333,333
    LD/RD
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
    $2,750,000$2,750,000
    RD
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $813,333$813,333 (Performance Bonus$15,000$15K)
    G
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $762,500$762,500
    LD
    UFA - 1
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $2,500,000$2,500,000
    LD/RD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $1,300,000$1,300,000
    C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $1,400,000$1,400,000
    RD
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Calgary Flames
    $863,333$863,333
    LW
    RFA - 1
    Taxi Squad
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $775,000$775,000 ($0$0$0$0)
    LW, C
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the San Jose Sharks
    $835,833$835,833 ($0$0$0$0)
    RW
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets
    $925,000$925,000 ($0$0$0$0)
    RD
    RFA - 3
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $775,000$775,000 ($0$0$0$0)
    LD
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $817,778$817,778 ($0$0$0$0)
    RD
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
    $863,333$863,333 ($0$0$0$0) (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
    RD
    RFA - 1

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    Nov. 10, 2023 at 10:42 a.m.
    #26
    I Love J Boqvist
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    Quoting: KingofRnR
    You say that a lot, but knowing the player isn't going to be just a rental and won't just walk via free agency and having a contract in place that offers cost certainty is certainly of additional value


    Yeah of like an extra 3rd maybe. But UFA prices don't add value
    Nov. 10, 2023 at 1:13 p.m.
    #27
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    TrevorA
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    Quoting: dgibb10
    Yeah of like an extra 3rd maybe. But UFA prices don't add value

    Not sure what But UFA prices don't add value means, but whether that player comes with term can make the difference as to whether the trade happens or not at all

    Term adds value AFAIC
    Nov. 10, 2023 at 1:21 p.m.
    #28
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    TrevorA
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    Quoting: GMBL
    The Oilers definitely need another guy, a pure defense guy like Tanev could work if they are looking to build a shutdown pair of Ekholm-Tanev. It would be good as a short-term solution had the Oilers' defense not been a mess. Got to also factor in that Ekholm too is 33. Hanifin is not as solid defensively as Tanev but he can still contribute in a similar way. He would have some roles similar to Nurse and Bouchard in terms of PP but that's not a huge issue. He will cost them upward of 7M in cap, and will likely cost them a 1st+Broberg. He would be a long-term solution, but the downside would be that they continue to play Ekholm on his off wing.

    Even if all 3 could possibly return a 1st, I think it's highly unlikely that all 3 return 1st because the market would be saturated. I don't think all 3 will be traded, but hypothetically speaking if all 3 are on the market would be surprising if they all return 1sts, would likely require there not be any other 1st worthy rentals on the market.

    Hanifin will cost $6.5-7.5mil/yr, which the Oilers don't have. Tanev will likely cost $3-3.5mil/yr, so 1/2 and again, he's the only guy I'd consider trading to EDM because it would be short term pain

    Broberg can't be worth much anymore at this point. Hanifin's worth at least a 1st + 2nd + 3rd, or something similar to what Hampus Lindholm brought ANA

    Good point on saturation, but again their 3 different Defensemen Hanifin = All Around Tanev = Shut Down & PK Specialist Zadorov = Big Mean Enforcer and Penalty Killer

    With 16 Playoff Teams, Injuries and not many other Pending UFA Defensemen likely to be available, it's the perfect storm for a great haul for CGY. Obviously I'm biased and wanting and hoping for the best results though and honestly, given Conroy's first Trade of to NJD, I should be nervous he'll just give them all away, like he did Toffoli lol
    GMBL liked this.
    Nov. 10, 2023 at 1:24 p.m.
    #29
    Thread Starter
    TrevorA
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    Quoting: BoomerTheHero
    Remove Bean and Ceulemans and the Lindholm trade is at least realistic. You can remove the other 2 pieces going columbus too. Sign and trades arent really a thing, so additional value for that isnt realistic.

    What does Sign and trades arent really a thing, so additional value for that isnt realistic mean!? Of course Term and Cost Certainty add value...

    Bean's days are supposed to be coming to a close in CLB, so why remove him!? And do you really need Ceulemans when you have Severson, Jiricek and Gudbranson???
    Nov. 10, 2023 at 1:51 p.m.
    #30
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    Quoting: KingofRnR
    What does Sign and trades arent really a thing, so additional value for that isnt realistic mean!? Of course Term and Cost Certainty add value...

    Bean's days are supposed to be coming to a close in CLB, so why remove him!? And do you really need Ceulemans when you have Severson, Jiricek and Gudbranson???


    I mean sign and trades dont happen that often. Usually its a trade for a rental, then they get to negotiate an extension after the trade. So counting on a sign and trade to get additional value is not realistic. The return for Lindholm will end up being probably just a bit more value than what Horvat got.

    Bean has played fairly well and we dont have that many LD to take his place, so i dont see him being the one to be traded.

    Just becasue we dont have an immediate need for Ceulemans doesnt mean he just gets given away in a trade. He has value and that value is not needed to make this trade.
    Nov. 10, 2023 at 2:18 p.m.
    #31
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    TrevorA
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    Quoting: BoomerTheHero
    I mean sign and trades dont happen that often. Usually its a trade for a rental, then they get to negotiate an extension after the trade. So counting on a sign and trade to get additional value is not realistic. The return for Lindholm will end up being probably just a bit more value than what Horvat got.

    Bean has played fairly well and we dont have that many LD to take his place, so i dont see him being the one to be traded.

    Just becasue we dont have an immediate need for Ceulemans doesnt mean he just gets given away in a trade. He has value and that value is not needed to make this trade.

    I guess that comes down to the Player and that Teams needs. If the Player is Young and that Team is in need of a Long-Term solution at that position, like CLB is in need of a 1C/Lindholm or ARI, for example, is in need of a Veteran Top-4 D-Man/Hanifin, they'll both want to acquire AND keep that player, so negotiating a Sign & Trade gets it all done in one. Hanifin might just be extended here soon for the sole purpose of increasing his value and appeal to other Teams in a Trade.

    Now if you're a Playoff bound Team and just want cheap help for the upcoming playoff run but know you can't afford to keep or extend that player, than sure, those are pure rentals

    Does CLB really want guys playing well or should they be playing and developing Guys like Jiricek, Blankenburg, Svozil, Ceulemans and Knazko!? Playing for last is unethical and for losers, but the worse they do, the better their Draft Picks will be and this accomplished that as well as speeds up their development

    Fair point, but you gotta give to get and CGY has no Depth at RD, so he's a Target instead of asking for Marchenko
    Nov. 10, 2023 at 2:27 p.m.
    #32
    I Love J Boqvist
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    Quoting: KingofRnR
    Not sure what But UFA prices don't add value means, but whether that player comes with term can make the difference as to whether the trade happens or not at all

    Term adds value AFAIC


    Lindholm doesn't have term and isn't interested in resigning in Calgary from what I've heard.
    Nov. 10, 2023 at 2:29 p.m.
    #33
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    Quoting: KingofRnR
    I guess that comes down to the Player and that Teams needs. If the Player is Young and that Team is in need of a Long-Term solution at that position, like CLB is in need of a 1C/Lindholm or ARI, for example, is in need of a Veteran Top-4 D-Man/Hanifin, they'll both want to acquire AND keep that player, so negotiating a Sign & Trade gets it all done in one. Hanifin might just be extended here soon for the sole purpose of increasing his value and appeal to other Teams in a Trade.

    Now if you're a Playoff bound Team and just want cheap help for the upcoming playoff run but know you can't afford to keep or extend that player, than sure, those are pure rentals

    Does CLB really want guys playing well or should they be playing and developing Guys like Jiricek, Blankenburg, Svozil, Ceulemans and Knazko!? Playing for last is unethical and for losers, but the worse they do, the better their Draft Picks will be and this accomplished that as well as speeds up their development

    Fair point, but you gotta give to get and CGY has no Depth at RD, so he's a Target instead of asking for Marchenko


    I understand the logic of a sign and trade, im just calling out that they rarely happen and it isnt realistic to expect it. You can want it all you want, but it is much more likely he gets traded without an extension and whoever trades for him would negotiate an extension after.

    I think Jarmo's seat is heating up so i think he wants to see progress and not go for another high draft pick, so yes i think he wants to win games and since we have no replacement for Bean, hes unlikely to be moved.

    You would never be getting Marchenko anyway. But i think Lindholm is worth 3 pieces, one being a 1st round pick, one being a young player/prospect, and one being a young roster player. so a 1st, Silly, and Peeke/Boqvist accomplish that and gives a young RD that we have too many of and that you need.
    squashmaple liked this.
    Nov. 10, 2023 at 2:38 p.m.
    #34
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    TrevorA
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    Quoting: BoomerTheHero
    I understand the logic of a sign and trade, im just calling out that they rarely happen and it isnt realistic to expect it. You can want it all you want, but it is much more likely he gets traded without an extension and whoever trades for him would negotiate an extension after.

    I think Jarmo's seat is heating up so i think he wants to see progress and not go for another high draft pick, so yes i think he wants to win games and since we have no replacement for Bean, hes unlikely to be moved.

    You would never be getting Marchenko anyway. But i think Lindholm is worth 3 pieces, one being a 1st round pick, one being a young player/prospect, and one being a young roster player. so a 1st, Silly, and Peeke/Boqvist accomplish that and gives a young RD that we have too many of and that you need.

    That's seem rather silly and risky to me, but you're not wrong, that's what happened with Horvat and H.Lindholm. Then again, Pierre-Luc Dubois and Damon Serverson were Sign & Trades, so I guess we're both not wrong

    Rumors all summer were that CLB was looking to move 2/3 of Bean, Boqvist and Peeke and CGY has no interest or need for Boqvist, so we help accomplish Jarmo's Goal by moving 2 out
    Nov. 10, 2023 at 2:40 p.m.
    #35
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    TrevorA
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    Quoting: dgibb10
    Lindholm doesn't have term and isn't interested in resigning in Calgary from what I've heard.

    Source please!?

    Could be just a bunch of lip service, but here is is directly from the horses mouth: Lindholm "Pretty Clear I'm Willing to Stay"
    Nov. 10, 2023 at 3:03 p.m.
    #36
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    Quoting: KingofRnR
    That's seem rather silly and risky to me, but you're not wrong, that's what happened with Horvat and H.Lindholm. Then again, Pierre-Luc Dubois and Damon Serverson were Sign & Trades, so I guess we're both not wrong

    Rumors all summer were that CLB was looking to move 2/3 of Bean, Boqvist and Peeke and CGY has no interest or need for Boqvist, so we help accomplish Jarmo's Goal by moving 2 out


    Yeah previously Bean struggled and seemed to be losing his spot, but he came in to this season playing really well and i think his spot is much more secure than what was expected. Like i said the main issue is that we just dont have a replacement for him on the left side. Peeke and Boqvist have been scratched most games and we dont need replacements.
    Nov. 10, 2023 at 3:15 p.m.
    #37
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    TrevorA
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    Quoting: BoomerTheHero
    Yeah previously Bean struggled and seemed to be losing his spot, but he came in to this season playing really well and i think his spot is much more secure than what was expected. Like i said the main issue is that we just dont have a replacement for him on the left side. Peeke and Boqvist have been scratched most games and we dont need replacements.

    I just want to bring him back home to replace Hanifin & compete with Kylington (if he comes back) & Poirier next year

    We’d be more than happy to send Oesterle and Kylington, so you have an LD replacement for Bean both now and potentially again in the future if Kyli ever returns from his mystery issues
    Nov. 10, 2023 at 4:18 p.m.
    #38
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    I personally have no issue with Bean being included in a Lindholm deal with Columbus. I think the deal would just simply need to have fewer parts than this one on both sides. Bean, Ceulemans, Sillinger, and a first with slightly stronger protections (perhaps top 10) for Lindholm would work for me.
    KingofRnR liked this.
     
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