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2023-2024 NHL Discussion Thread #2: Early Overreactions

Nov. 28, 2023 at 1:01 a.m.
#251
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Quoting: aadoyle
Man watching Zadorov after his trade request his value is tanking by the game. He has looked bad

CGY should just take the 3rd + prospect before thats gone


And if Tanev keeps getting hurt he won't have much value either
Nov. 28, 2023 at 1:03 a.m.
#252
EklundCelebriniSmith
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Edited Nov. 28, 2023 at 1:13 a.m.
Quoting: HockeyScotty
The Sharks have really found their game: cause so much chaos that the other team has no idea what is happening


As much as I haves knocked Quinn (low hanging fruit, so I’ll take the L), their defensive structure/ buy in for blocking (trying to make up for their lack of high end talent lol) and work ethic has completely shift since the 20-3. Despite 1-2 stinkers since then (like most teams every now and then); they have really been more enjoyable to watch.

This Caps game has been just that you outlined, chaos.

Aggressive and great play from Zetterlund, Okho, Bailey, Strum, Ferraro, Addison, Granlund, Benning, Burroughs, etc.

I would not trade Blackwood for a first TBH!
Nov. 28, 2023 at 1:13 a.m.
#253
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Quoting: yikes
As much as I haves knocked Quinn (low hanging fruit, so I’ll take the L), their defensive structure/ buy in for blocking (trying to make up for their lack up talent lol) and work ethic has completely shift since the 20-3. Despite 1-2 stinkers since then (like most teams every now and then); they have really been more enjoyable to watch.

This Caps game has been just that you outlined, chaos.

Aggressive and great play from Zetterlund, Okho, Bailey, Strum, Ferraro, Addison, Burroughs, etc.

I would not trade Blackwood for a first TBH!


It's been fun to watch them on the late games; their forecheck/cycling game really counterattacks the other's team speed/talent (they aren't fast if they are standing/spinning looking for the puck).

Blackwood really seems like a guy that needs to see lots of rubber and stay very active to be his best self. If he were put on a team with really tight defensive structure like the Avs or Canes (not that they are shopping for him) that only sees like 21-23 shot attempts with long stretches of controlling play and nothing for the goalie then I think he would fall apart again.
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Nov. 28, 2023 at 1:22 a.m.
#254
EklundCelebriniSmith
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Quoting: HockeyScotty
It's been fun to watch them on the late games; their forecheck/cycling game really counterattacks the other's team speed/talent (they aren't fast if they are standing/spinning looking for the puck).

Blackwood really seems like a guy that needs to see lots of rubber and stay very active to be his best self. If he were put on a team with really tight defensive structure like the Avs or Canes (not that they are shopping for him) that only sees like 21-23 shot attempts with long stretches of controlling play and nothing for the goalie then I think he would fall apart again.


It also may help, though it’s not often discussed and a hard topic to flesh out but more recently it’s been brought up in the mainstream media, the difference between EC vs WC. The whole style of play the east really likes (according to the experts) is east west/ exposing eachother per se whereas the west is more north south/ big body style games.

You can kinda see it this game versus the caps, it was very back and forth and super physical for some stretches. The game never was wide open and like you outlined, Blackwood gets busy (which I do agree with) - he needs to see rubber to calm down almost. Like Price, Blackwood when he’s playing well is very fluid and gentle, controlling rebounds and dictating the play despite their being chaos in front of him, as he’s “warmed up”.

I think he could have a home in SJS as they won’t likely be a different teams in terms of the style of play for the next 3+ years. And he could be more comfortable in the WC with a team that relies solely on him. The only thing we hope to see change is SJS get more talent, but I think if Griers plan is to be better next year/ good in 2025 - there no reason he shouldn’t see Blackwoods deal out / maybe give him a 3-4 year extension
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Nov. 28, 2023 at 1:22 a.m.
#255
Master of Bloodsport
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Are you ****ing kidding me
Nov. 28, 2023 at 8:15 a.m.
#256
WentWughes
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Patrick Kane to Detroit

Rumours are he wants to play with Debrincat
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Nov. 28, 2023 at 8:25 a.m.
#257
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Bedard23
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Quoting: Otto_Kirov
Are you ****ing kidding me


No we’re not kidding, you guys are just that ****ing bad
Nov. 28, 2023 at 10:08 a.m.
#258
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Detroit elevated to contender status in my book.

What a good start for them.

I especially like how they’ve beaten good teams - they’ve handled close games.

Now Kane, who may possibly be the old version.
Nov. 28, 2023 at 10:37 a.m.
#259
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Edited Nov. 28, 2023 at 1:01 p.m.
Quoting: CantStopWontStop
Detroit elevated to contender status in my book.

What a good start for them.

I especially like how they’ve beaten good teams - they’ve handled close games.

Now Kane, who may possibly be the old version.


They've shown enough to be in the converstation to this point; but you can also say the same for the Flyers. One or both of them will get exposed mid-way thru the season.

The real separation usually becomes apparent December thru January. They have to fight off the Lightning, Leafs, and Sabres while keeping pace with the Panthers. If they slip out of the #3 spot then they also have to add the Devils, Penguins, Capitals, and Islanders (as at least one or two of those teams will go on a streak) for the wildcard spots.

The East has a big "middle class" that is dog-eat-dog; so we'll find out if the Wings have what it takes (and can navigate the inevitable injury bug that sets in).
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Nov. 28, 2023 at 10:39 a.m.
#260
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Quoting: CantStopWontStop
Detroit elevated to contender status in my book.

What a good start for them.

I especially like how they’ve beaten good teams - they’ve handled close games.

Now Kane, who may possibly be the old version.


45% xG at even strength

That's a bottom tier stats, and Kane will not help with that in my book.

I still see Detroit as a middle of the pack team, and out of the playoffs
Nov. 28, 2023 at 10:43 a.m.
#261
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Quoting: IconicHawk
No we’re not kidding, you guys are just that ****ing bad


Lucas Raymond must be happy
Nov. 28, 2023 at 1:16 p.m.
#262
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Edited Nov. 28, 2023 at 1:28 p.m.
Quoting: pinslack
45% xG at even strength

That's a bottom tier stats, and Kane will not help with that in my book.

I still see Detroit as a middle of the pack team, and out of the playoffs


I do think in Detroit’s case that offensive metrics will be broken.

Unlike most teams, nearly every offensive threat on the wings shoots at a high percentage - not this one momentary season, but as archetypes - they would perform this way regardless of their team; Larkin is reasonably 10%, Perron is historically roughly 15%, Lucas Raymond is similar to Perron, and DeBrincat is extremely high, where 20% isn’t unreasonable. Fabbri plays as a sniper, etc. By prioritizing the wrist shot and netfront offense, Detroit should convert much more than others, but have less chances. Rate stats driven by comparisons to league averages will be busted as they are simply too deviant from the norm. They should balloon pdo simply because most of the comparisons do not have the quality of shooter.

In combination, they skew the data going in so hard that the data coming out is … what it is. I don’t see any of these trends changing: the established players - they’re simply meeting career averages, more or less, and the younger players are multiple seasons in.
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Nov. 28, 2023 at 3:42 p.m.
#263
Ban Price trades
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I think I've gone and deleted about a dozen posts and about half as many AGMs for adding fuel to the fire that is the Corey Perry situation. Please refrain from continuing to perpetuate an unfounded rumour: there are actual people involved and we have exactly zero of the details from either side at this time.
Nov. 28, 2023 at 3:50 p.m.
#264
Hakuna Matata
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Quoting: BeterChiarelli
I think I've gone and deleted about a dozen posts and about half as many AGMs for adding fuel to the fire that is the Corey Perry situation. Please refrain from continuing to perpetuate an unfounded rumour: there are actual people involved and we have exactly zero of the details from either side at this time.


Yea cause honestly we have 0 idea what the guy did

Lets not assume based on a rumour and ruin a guy. Its like the whole Kane thing years ago (wasnt terminated but you get it)

Now the question is does a team take a chance or did whatever he do basically end things in the NHL this season

Should be interesting. Cause man he may just be viewed as a distraction rn


While the curious cat in me wants to know what he did also know people's privacy got to be respected.
Nov. 28, 2023 at 4:22 p.m.
#265
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Quoting: aadoyle
Yea cause honestly we have 0 idea what the guy did

Lets not assume based on a rumour and ruin a guy. Its like the whole Kane thing years ago (wasnt terminated but you get it)

Now the question is does a team take a chance or did whatever he do basically end things in the NHL this season

Should be interesting. Cause man he may just be viewed as a distraction rn


While the curious cat in me wants to know what he did also know people's privacy got to be respected.


I don't see why another team would sign Perry, now I assume if a team wanted to sign Perry, they could get all the info we aren't getting ( or the NHL would just tell them no don't try ), but I fail to see why a team would go after Perry when he got terminated for I'm assuming a breach of contract
Nov. 28, 2023 at 5:06 p.m.
#266
Hakuna Matata
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Edited Nov. 28, 2023 at 5:21 p.m.
Quoting: A_Habs_fan
I don't see why another team would sign Perry, now I assume if a team wanted to sign Perry, they could get all the info we aren't getting ( or the NHL would just tell them no don't try ), but I fail to see why a team would go after Perry when he got terminated for I'm assuming a breach of contract


Well they could view him as a distraction

Maybe not and like DeAngelo they just go **** it

That said whatever he did he made CHI unhappy and breached his contract and the organizations internal policies which may be a red flag to other teams.

I think its gonna be a bit before we see him if at all. But yea the whole thing is just odd rn
Nov. 28, 2023 at 5:25 p.m.
#267
torontos finest
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whatever perry did wasn't criminal and didn't involve the players or their families. no details from davidson and he was very careful not to give any sort of hint as to the nature of the conduct. also said the players don't know the details, not sure if that's true or if that's just to help them keep the press off of them.

leaves a lot up to speculation unfortunately
Nov. 28, 2023 at 6:56 p.m.
#268
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Edited Nov. 28, 2023 at 7:02 p.m.
I like how the Hawks have handled this but I do have one worry - I hope that since the matter is not criminal that the expectations were clearly set for Corey and he broke some widely understood thing. If so, there’s a saying and it ends with find out. I hope that he isn’t just being used as an example, but with 4 mil on the line, I doubt there can be much grey area. I do think that keeping the details internal is appropriate and helpful, kicking somebody when their down helps nobody and the punishment being doled out is extreme, but I understand people who have other opinions.
Nov. 28, 2023 at 8:02 p.m.
#269
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Bedard23
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Quoting: BeterChiarelli
I think I've gone and deleted about a dozen posts and about half as many AGMs for adding fuel to the fire that is the Corey Perry situation. Please refrain from continuing to perpetuate an unfounded rumour: there are actual people involved and we have exactly zero of the details from either side at this time.


I only said what I said because it was just another blemish on my own ****ing team
Nov. 28, 2023 at 8:11 p.m.
#270
Amirov Forever
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Quoting: IconicHawk
I only said what I said because it was just another blemish on my own ****ing team


I literally said don't jump to any conclusions and I got deleted, so it looks like they were just purging anything to do with the situation
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Nov. 28, 2023 at 8:15 p.m.
#271
Go leafs go
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Quoting: NorthernLeafsFan05
I literally said don't jump to any conclusions and I got deleted, so it looks like they were just purging anything to do with the situation


Yah same, basically what I said and my post got deleted
Nov. 28, 2023 at 8:17 p.m.
#272
Go Habs Go
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Quoting: mondo
whatever perry did wasn't criminal and didn't involve the players or their families. no details from davidson and he was very careful not to give any sort of hint as to the nature of the conduct. also said the players don't know the details, not sure if that's true or if that's just to help them keep the press off of them.

leaves a lot up to speculation unfortunately


Too much left to speculation. They could have narrowed it down at least a little to prevent speculation along certain lines.
If Perry did something wrong (and indications are that he did), why are they seemingly more focused on protecting him than their organization?
This being the organization that buried years of misconduct and has promised to do better.
You can't claim to be improving yet maintain the lack of transparency and accountability which preceded those previous revelations.

They didn't even quell the original (baseless) rumors that began circulating, because they offered no plausible alternative or reason to trust the organization's statement or handling of the situation. They don't exactly have a good reputation in that area. If there are parties with no involvement being affected, it is those parties that should be protected, not the (alleged) perpetrator.

Perry is old enough and wise enough to understand that his actions have consequences and his chosen profession lacks an expectation of privacy in many areas.
If the statement is "family matters" or "personal issues", that's the end of most speculation. Those are areas where there should be privacy for the player.
When it's professional misconduct, some explanation is warranted. You can curate it as much as possible, but it should at least be sufficient to suggest, "Yes. That action deserves these consequences".
The NHL shop still has Corey Perry Blackhawks Jerseys advertised in their shop (and they may have already sold a bunch). Fans may have bought tickets to see him play. People may have him in their hockey pools. I don't gamble, but him being on Chicago may have been a factor in some of those decisions (maybe, I don't know).

Instead of closing the matter and moving on, they resolved absolutely nothing. Another shadow to linger over Chicago (and the NHL) for the foreseeable future.
This all makes it seem like he did something which would fall in line with those very things the organization has sworn to never allow to happen again, which would be why they are being so secretive.
That's the kind of devastating speculation they can't afford (unless that actually IS the reason, and we find out in another 10 years that they buried another incident).
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Nov. 28, 2023 at 8:18 p.m.
#273
Amirov Forever
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Beauvillier is going to the Blackhawks
Nov. 28, 2023 at 8:21 p.m.
#274
Amirov Forever
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Quoting: NorthernLeafsFan05
Beauvillier is going to the Blackhawks


For a 5th?? Damn Kyle Davidson
Nov. 28, 2023 at 8:27 p.m.
#275
Hakuna Matata
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Beau going to CHI makes sense

He was 4th line in Van making to much

And with Hall and Perry gone they could use a guy like this
 
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