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Wifi and Kovacevic and Larsson

Created by: TMLBRIAN
Team: 2023-24 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Dec. 8, 2023
Published: Dec. 8, 2023
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Are both fan bases about to go crazy on me?

Seattle gets the younger D who has a good potential. Leafs get the big, physical, defensive dman they need for this year and next.

Thoughts?
Trades
1.
MTL
  1. 2024 1st round pick (TOR)
2.
TOR
  1. Larsson, Adam ($1,000,000 retained)
SEA
  1. Liljegren, Timothy
  2. 2025 3rd round pick (TOR)
  3. 2026 3rd round pick (TOR)
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2024
Logo of the NYI
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the OTT
2025
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the CHI
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2026
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$83,500,000$83,426,450$0$0$73,550
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
LW, RW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,640,250$11,640,250
C
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$10,903,000$10,903,000
RW
NMC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,500,000$5,500,000
LW, RW
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$796,667$796,667
LW, RW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,000,000$3,000,000
C, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,100,000$2,100,000
RW, C, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$775,000$775,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,400,000$2,400,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$762,500$762,500
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,350,000$1,350,000
RW
UFA - 3
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$7,500,000$7,500,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 7
Logo of the Seattle Kraken
$3,000,000$3,000,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$766,667$766,667
G
RFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,000,000$2,000,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,550,000$3,550,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$800,000$800,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$766,667$766,667
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$828,333$828,333
LD/RD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,100,000$1,100,000
RD
RFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,625,000$5,625,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,687,500$4,687,500
G
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,150,000$4,150,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1

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Dec. 8, 2023 at 8:43 p.m.
#26
Berkly goat Catton
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Quoting: SLAFSQUATCH
Seig is a top teir defensie dman.

Liljegren is a dime a dozen, Just about every team has one.


He wasn’t very good at the time of the trade but had potential
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Dec. 8, 2023 at 9:30 p.m.
#27
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Leaf fans posting like the Habs trade is an overpay... wow would they be blown away by what it would actually cost for TOR (or any team) to acquire those two players.
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Dec. 8, 2023 at 11:09 p.m.
#28
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Quoting: Just_A_Guess
Leaf fans posting like the Habs trade is an overpay... wow would they be blown away by what it would actually cost for TOR (or any team) to acquire those two players.


Teams aren't just handing out 1st round picks to acquire big defensemen. I don't know much about Kovacevic but if they are going for more than the typical guy (e.g., 3rd+5th for Zadorov, 7th for Bortuzzo) a 2nd+3rd for each would be considerably more, and would be worth less than the 1st of that team.
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Dec. 8, 2023 at 11:12 p.m.
#29
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Quoting: Just_A_Guess
Leaf fans posting like the Habs trade is an overpay... wow would they be blown away by what it would actually cost for TOR (or any team) to acquire those two players.


They’re 3rd pairing guys on a crappy team. No one is giving you big value for them. The absolute most you will get for both combined is a 2nd.
Dec. 8, 2023 at 11:15 p.m.
#30
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Quoting: SLAFSQUATCH
umm Liljegren has late 3rd maybe 4th round value.


He’s a top 4 d man with a cheap contract. He easily gets a first on the open market, I mean Sandin literally got traded for a first last season and Lili is basically a right handed version of him (and less good offensively but better defensively). Of course the leafs are not trading him any time soon though
Dec. 8, 2023 at 11:24 p.m.
#31
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Quoting: Saskleaf
He’s a top 4 d man with a cheap contract. He easily gets a first on the open market, I mean Sandin literally got traded for a first last season and Lili is basically a right handed version of him (and less good offensively but better defensively). Of course the leafs are not trading him any time soon though


Leafs fans hope.. he will at least be a top 4 two-way dman. He isn't even that. And def isn't worth a first. His only benefit on the market right now is that he's RH.
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Dec. 8, 2023 at 11:46 p.m.
#32
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Quoting: SLAFSQUATCH
Leafs fans hope.. he will at least be a top 4 two-way dman. He isn't even that. And def isn't worth a first. His only benefit on the market right now is that he's RH.


How isn’t he that though? He gets top 4 minutes and posts relatively good stats. Like sure he’s not going to be top 4 on a team like the canes or the avs, but the majority of teams he is. He’s easily worth more then either of wifi or Kovacevic honestly
Dec. 8, 2023 at 11:54 p.m.
#33
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Quoting: Saskleaf
How isn’t he that though? He gets top 4 minutes and posts relatively good stats. Like sure he’s not going to be top 4 on a team like the canes or the avs, but the majority of teams he is. He’s easily worth more then either of wifi or Kovacevic honestly


Isn't Liljegren most effective on the 3rd pairing with Gio? If he's top 4 by default, Im not certain that's a valid argument for his potential.

Depends. He may be a more diverse Kovacevic. But I'd rather have Kovacevic on my 3rd pair & playing PK. I'm finding all the Xhekaj hate from Leaf fans telling. He's far from a finished product and arguably has a Byfuglien ceiling. If Im collecting stocks, I know which asset I'd rather own. But to each their own! Good evening!
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Dec. 9, 2023 at 12:58 a.m.
#34
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Quoting: Saskleaf
Hard hard no to the habs trade


The late 1st is a lottery ticket that isnt worth giving up on two young pieces. They'd be lucky to get a Xhekaj with that late 1st but yeah Im sure Trev cant wait to use it to dump a bad contract like he's famous for so you hoard those picks of yours!
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Dec. 9, 2023 at 1:38 a.m.
#35
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Quoting: SLAFSQUATCH
Leafs fans hope.. he will at least be a top 4 two-way dman. He isn't even that. And def isn't worth a first. His only benefit on the market right now is that he's RH.


If Kaiden Guhle played on the Leafs, I can imagine the hot takes now. He'd be bigger news than Ohtani.
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Dec. 9, 2023 at 9:13 a.m.
#36
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Quoting: SLAFSQUATCH
Isn't Liljegren most effective on the 3rd pairing with Gio? If he's top 4 by default, Im not certain that's a valid argument for his potential.

Depends. He may be a more diverse Kovacevic. But I'd rather have Kovacevic on my 3rd pair & playing PK. I'm finding all the Xhekaj hate from Leaf fans telling. He's far from a finished product and arguably has a Byfuglien ceiling. If Im collecting stocks, I know which asset I'd rather own. But to each their own! Good evening!


That’s a fair point but that can probably be applied to a lot of players. Sure he’s probably Best with Gio on the 3rd pair but that’s just because he has good chemistry with Gio. And I know the leafs d (especially with all the injuries) sucks but still, he’s posting good stats as a top 4 guy.

But as you said each to his own! If you’d rather have your guys good for you! Merry Christmas
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Dec. 9, 2023 at 9:16 a.m.
#37
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Quoting: Andy_Dick
The late 1st is a lottery ticket that isnt worth giving up on two young pieces. They'd be lucky to get a Xhekaj with that late 1st but yeah Im sure Trev cant wait to use it to dump a bad contract like he's famous for so you hoard those picks of yours!


They could also very easily get something better than Xhekaj with that pick. Also what bad contract lol, the only ones the leafs have that are bad enough that you’d need to pay to dump are all on LTIR
Dec. 9, 2023 at 9:21 a.m.
#38
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Quoting: GMBL
Teams aren't just handing out 1st round picks to acquire big defensemen. I don't know much about Kovacevic but if they are going for more than the typical guy (e.g., 3rd+5th for Zadorov, 7th for Bortuzzo) a 2nd+3rd for each would be considerably more, and would be worth less than the 1st of that team.


Quoting: Saskleaf
They’re 3rd pairing guys on a crappy team. No one is giving you big value for them. The absolute most you will get for both combined is a 2nd.


OR we get what we want for them otherwise we keep them since we actually like them on the team and have no reason to move them for pennies simply because other fanbases want them. I'm well aware most would prefer to receive something flashy for a 1st but teams also don't have to give up their players just because they're wanted elsewhere.
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Dec. 9, 2023 at 10:48 a.m.
#39
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Quoting: Just_A_Guess
OR we get what we want for them otherwise we keep them since we actually like them on the team and have no reason to move them for pennies simply because other fanbases want them. I'm well aware most would prefer to receive something flashy for a 1st but teams also don't have to give up their players just because they're wanted elsewhere.


Yah I never said you had to trade them or anything. I don’t even really want them on the leafs (I mean they’d be nice but absolutely no way in heck I’d give up a first for them). My point is if that’s the price for them they are no going anywhere
Dec. 9, 2023 at 11:20 a.m.
#40
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Quoting: Saskleaf
They could also very easily get something better than Xhekaj with that pick. Also what bad contract lol, the only ones the leafs have that are bad enough that you’d need to pay to dump are all on LTIR


The Habs simply arent interested in late picks. They have had over 13 picks on average the last 3 draft years. This is the last team that needs more iffy picks. They have rn a widely acknowledged deepest prospect pool right now according to pundits like Wheeler and Pronman, what they lack is elite talent and the odds a pick that late becomes elite are virtually nil and the last they want to be is Anaheim who felt they had to dump Montour and Theodore for pennies on the dollar with too much backlog on the back end. If anything they will use a Xhekaj as a piece in a package to go after a big fish like Draisaitl.

Xhekaj isnt more than a 3rd pair right now that is true but is he has offensive upside with size and that tenacity. No one is saying that he can be Big Buff but the possibility is there and that is a zero sum game to think some pick in the late 20s will amount to that same potential.

If the Leafs think they are better off using that pick as trade capital then so be it but the Habs right now are in that same position where their own picks will be used as trade capital. Fans are already getting impatient with this ongoing rebuild whether that is this coming offseason or the next, expect Hughes to try to be even more aggressive as he was trading draft capital to acquire Dach and Newhook with multiple 1sts. Xhekaj is a Bergevin acquire, Hughes will almost certainly see what's out there and a late 1st from a contender wont cut it unless he's intending to flip it for something else to a team that doesnt have a need for Xhekaj but lets face it 90% of teams want a Xhekaj, he makes a lot of room out there.
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Dec. 9, 2023 at 12:19 p.m.
#41
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Quoting: Saskleaf
He’s a top 4 d man with a cheap contract. He easily gets a first on the open market, I mean Sandin literally got traded for a first last season and Lili is basically a right handed version of him (and less good offensively but better defensively). Of course the leafs are not trading him any time soon though


A top 4 Dman doesn’t score 1 pts in 10 games in his 25 years old season. And Sandin was younger, better offensively and better defensively.
Dec. 9, 2023 at 1:14 p.m.
#42
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Quoting: Andy_Dick
The Habs simply arent interested in late picks. They have had over 13 picks on average the last 3 draft years. This is the last team that needs more iffy picks. They have rn a widely acknowledged deepest prospect pool right now according to pundits like Wheeler and Pronman, what they lack is elite talent and the odds a pick that late becomes elite are virtually nil and the last they want to be is Anaheim who felt they had to dump Montour and Theodore for pennies on the dollar with too much backlog on the back end. If anything they will use a Xhekaj as a piece in a package to go after a big fish like Draisaitl.

Xhekaj isnt more than a 3rd pair right now that is true but is he has offensive upside with size and that tenacity. No one is saying that he can be Big Buff but the possibility is there and that is a zero sum game to think some pick in the late 20s will amount to that same potential.

If the Leafs think they are better off using that pick as trade capital then so be it but the Habs right now are in that same position where their own picks will be used as trade capital. Fans are already getting impatient with this ongoing rebuild whether that is this coming offseason or the next, expect Hughes to try to be even more aggressive as he was trading draft capital to acquire Dach and Newhook with multiple 1sts. Xhekaj is a Bergevin acquire, Hughes will almost certainly see what's out there and a late 1st from a contender wont cut it unless he's intending to flip it for something else to a team that doesnt have a need for Xhekaj but lets face it 90% of teams want a Xhekaj, he makes a lot of room out there.


That’s fine, if the habs aren’t content with that offer then they can hold onto Xhekaj. I’m just saying there is absolutely no interest on the leafs part (or at least that’d what I’d think, obviously don’t know for sure but I’d assume this) to give up a first for a guy that isn’t going to play in there top 4 right now. I think from the habs point of view they should hold onto him because as you said, he does have potential and could improve down the road.
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Dec. 9, 2023 at 1:15 p.m.
#43
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Quoting: GuyGuyGuy
A top 4 Dman doesn’t score 1 pts in 10 games in his 25 years old season. And Sandin was younger, better offensively and better defensively.


He’s a 2 way guy, he’s not a pure offensive defenseman like Sandy was (saying Sandin is better defensively is not true).
Dec. 9, 2023 at 1:16 p.m.
#44
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Quoting: Saskleaf
That’s fine, if the habs aren’t content with that offer then they can hold onto Xhekaj. I’m just saying there is absolutely no interest on the leafs part (or at least that’d what I’d think, obviously don’t know for sure but I’d assume this) to give up a first for a guy that isn’t going to play in there top 4 right now. I think from the habs point of view they should hold onto him because as you said, he does have potential and could improve down the road.


And he's fun as hell! He may have completely destroyed Ryan Reaves aura after game 1 after rag dolling him. The team is already going to have issues with tickets sales despite sell outs with no promised diamond at the draft like a Bedard, Carlsson or Fantilli and a losing team. If not this season, if this is another lost season with no shining star at the end of the tunnel. The ticket sales will suffer in the following seasons with a lack of interest. Molson is saying all the 'right' things but going to games in those tiny seats and paying 20$ beers isnt enjoyable in the least to most. We already see what's happening in Winterpeg. Montreal can be fickle at the best of times.

Unless a team overpays a TON, Xhekaj is staying and he clearly has a lof of fans among the GMs whom have expressed to pundits like Dreger their admiration for his skill set.
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Dec. 9, 2023 at 1:45 p.m.
#45
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Hey people, this is just a fun entertaining Arm-chair GM fantasy tool. The team you love is not fused with your identity. No need to rip each other apart and go full ad hominem. There's enough of that in the world.

I'm a hardcore Habs fan.
But respect all other fanbases and their right to love their team.
That being said, I have yet to see any trade proposal on this site where both fanbases of the teams involved agree 100%. And I'm sure that it's the reason so few trades happen in real life compared to the 100+ proposals each day on here. It's VERY complex.

This is sports.
This is fun. Entertainment.

Cheers to everyone! Habs, LEafs and Kraken fans cool
Dec. 9, 2023 at 1:51 p.m.
#46
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Quoting: Andy_Dick
And he's fun as hell! He may have completely destroyed Ryan Reaves aura after game 1 after rag dolling him. The team is already going to have issues with tickets sales despite sell outs with no promised diamond at the draft like a Bedard, Carlsson or Fantilli and a losing team. If not this season, if this is another lost season with no shining star at the end of the tunnel. The ticket sales will suffer in the following seasons with a lack of interest. Molson is saying all the 'right' things but going to games in those tiny seats and paying 20$ beers isnt enjoyable in the least to most. We already see what's happening in Winterpeg. Montreal can be fickle at the best of times.

Unless a team overpays a TON, Xhekaj is staying and he clearly has a lof of fans among the GMs whom have expressed to pundits like Dreger their admiration for his skill set.


Yah for sure! I don’t know about rag dolling Reaves but he definitely beat him and Reaves hasn’t really been the same lately since the first couple games. He’s a heck of a fighter
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Dec. 9, 2023 at 1:52 p.m.
#47
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Quoting: Fran615
Hey people, this is just a fun entertaining Arm-chair GM fantasy tool. The team you love is not fused with your identity. No need to rip each other apart and go full ad hominem. There's enough of that in the world.

I'm a hardcore Habs fan.
But respect all other fanbases and their right to love their team.
That being said, I have yet to see any trade proposal on this site where both fanbases of the teams involved agree 100%. And I'm sure that it's the reason so few trades happen in real life compared to the 100+ proposals each day on here. It's VERY complex.

This is sports.
This is fun. Entertainment.

Cheers to everyone! Habs, LEafs and Kraken fans cool


Compromise is pretty difficult aspect to life which explains the high rate of divorce in society. Then you add the emotional attachment of sports which leads to tribalism. Ppl go on rollercoaster rides with these players like a newborn baby. Take a guy like Casey Mittlestadt, Sabres fans have been through so much with that player, he's going to be a superstar, no, he's a complete bust, no, he's actually really good and they were right to believe in him like a pagan believer so fans of him will rate him not as a good hockey player but as a player they have raised themselves and hold his worth as badge of suffering. You aren't trading for Casey Mittlestadt you are trading for the emotional baggage of Sabres fans waiting for the ultimate payoff.
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Dec. 9, 2023 at 1:58 p.m.
#48
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Quoting: Saskleaf
Yah for sure! I don’t know about rag dolling Reaves but he definitely beat him and Reaves hasn’t really been the same lately since the first couple games. He’s a heck of a fighter


If you want to laugh scan the crowd at the Bell Centre. Xhekaj jerseys may outnumber most players on the ice. He even has his own trademark tshirts selling online. I remember a bit of the Doug Gilmour hysteria in Toronto, Don Cherry practically sexually assaulting him on air. Xhekaj is at those kind of uncomfortable levels of popularity to some fans. Im not even his biggest fan at all. He has a lot of warts and I rather they move him in a bigger deal but his worth to an org that wants to sell tickets is quite strong. He isnt Zadorov who's a dead end offensively and simply speaks his mind while being a funny Russian. Xhekaj actually has fans that think he's a God on the ice that splits the heavens and turns non believers into fairy dust at the mere sight of his presence.
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Dec. 9, 2023 at 2:17 p.m.
#49
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Quoting: Andy_Dick
Compromise is pretty difficult aspect to life which explains the high rate of divorce in society. Then you add the emotional attachment of sports which leads to tribalism. Ppl go on rollercoaster rides with these players like a newborn baby. Take a guy like Casey Mittlestadt, Sabres fans have been through so much with that player, he's going to be a superstar, no, he's a complete bust, no, he's actually really good and they were right to believe in him like a pagan believer so fans of him will rate him not as a good hockey player but as a player they have raised themselves and hold his worth as badge of suffering. You aren't trading for Casey Mittlestadt you are trading for the emotional baggage of Sabres fans waiting for the ultimate payoff.


Well said.

Some 'soccer' players have even been killed by fans... because an 'own goal' had been interpreted like betrayal from the fans perspectives.
Same kind of transference/projection with other sports, and on this site too.

Hence why there are ZERO trade proposals where both fanbases agree.

Your sentence "You aren't trading for (player x) you are trading for the emotional baggage (relating to player x)" is SPOT ON.

And I think we're all vulnerable to that suconscious identity-fusion when we cheer for a team. Someone from another fanbase who "disrespects" the value we see/feel in on of our player is felt exactly as if a stranger disrespected on of our kids. And why there are fights in the stands sometimes... tribalism.

Cheers bro!
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Dec. 9, 2023 at 2:29 p.m.
#50
Berkly goat Catton
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Quoting: Saskleaf
He’s a 2 way guy, he’s not a pure offensive defenseman like Sandy was (saying Sandin is better defensively is not true).


Sandin is currently the second best defensive D on the caps and he was the best in Toronto for a long time. He was a two way D
 
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