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Need more then Puljujarvi

Created by: Nick33
Team: 2023-24 Pittsburgh Penguins
Initial Creation Date: Dec. 11, 2023
Published: Dec. 11, 2023
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Free Agent Signings
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$800,000
Trades
1.
PIT
  1. Foligno, Marcus
  2. 2024 1st round pick (MIN)
MIN
  1. Guentzel, Jake
  2. Zohorna, Radim
Additional Details:
Sending Jake back home for gritty tough guy.
2.
3.
BUF
  1. Carter, Jeff
  2. 2026 3rd round pick (SJS)
Additional Details:
Carter gives the ok for Buffalo.
Buyouts
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2024
Logo of the MIN
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the NYR
2025
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
2026
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
20$83,500,000$80,279,342$0$0$3,220,658
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$8,700,000$8,700,000
C
NMC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$5,125,000$5,125,000
RW, LW
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$775,000$775,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$6,100,000$6,100,000
C
NMC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$5,500,000$5,500,000
LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$925,000$925,000
LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$2,450,000$2,450,000
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$800,000$800,000
RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$850,000$850,000
LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$2,000,000$2,000,000
C, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Minnesota Wild
$3,100,000$3,100,000
RW, LW
NMC
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$4,500,000$4,500,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$10,000,000$10,000,000
RD
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$5,375,000$5,375,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$4,025,175$4,025,175
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$6,100,000$6,100,000
RD
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$1,500,000$1,500,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$775,000$775,000
LD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$2,500,000$2,500,000
RD
RFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$900,000$900,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$5,000,000$5,000,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$800,000$800,000
RD
UFA - 1
Taxi Squad
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$775,000$775,000 ($0$0$0$0)
RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$775,000$775,000 ($0$0$0$0)
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$775,000$775,000 ($0$0$0$0)
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$775,000$775,000 ($0$0$0$0)
LW
RFA - 1

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Dec. 11, 2023 at 4:57 p.m.
#1
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Canucks pass
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Dec. 11, 2023 at 5:24 p.m.
#2
FKA Bigtittielarper
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Gotta think Buffalo declines
sabres89, ChestNut33, AntiAnalytics and 1 other person liked this.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 5:33 p.m.
#3
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Canucks pass
If you take Kuzmenko out and trade Garland I think this trade is acceptable.
westleysnipez liked this.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 5:47 p.m.
#4
14m in dead cap
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Can’t see the Wild doing that. No sense giving up a 1st when you’re not going to compete and if Guentzel wants to come home, his agent knows Guerin’s number and they’ll talk July 1st.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 6:10 p.m.
#5
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Guentzel trade needs more coming back to Pittsburgh. The other ones, PIT needs to add quite a bit.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 6:20 p.m.
#6
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Canucks decline. Not giving up Kuzmenko for a 3rd and what would be two AHLers.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 6:22 p.m.
#7
Tank it baby
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Great. Another fantasy land Carter trade.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 6:27 p.m.
#8
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So Buffalo gets a third for taking a huge cap dump and sending a serviceable RHD. How can they ever say no
Dec. 11, 2023 at 6:45 p.m.
#9
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Sabres pass, big time
Dec. 11, 2023 at 7:06 p.m.
#10
Banned
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Quoting: SomeonesOffended
Gotta think Buffalo declines


Are ya sure?!
Lololol

I’ve seen some dumb trades on here,
and this one is pretty stupid

Even if Carter would waive for Buffalo- he won’t
And even if Buffalo wanted a washed up Cap dump- we don’t
We aren’t gonna trade a good young defenseman,
especially since he’s been our best RD all year


I know this isn’t your ACGM, so sorry you got responded to
But this trade makes absolutely no sense from the Sabres perspective at all

@Nick33, this is absolutely brutal
Dec. 11, 2023 at 9:04 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: JayTea
Can’t see the Wild doing that. No sense giving up a 1st when you’re not going to compete and if Guentzel wants to come home, his agent knows Guerin’s number and they’ll talk July 1st.


Quoting: Haymaker26
Guentzel trade needs more coming back to Pittsburgh. The other ones, PIT needs to add quite a bit.


It would technically need more except for one small issue.

1) Did you fail to realize that 1st round pick being shipped to Pittsburgh is currently sitting in the 8th OVA spot? It's a literal top-ten pick right now. Whatever additional value you think you're supposed to be getting is already being made up with a stupidly high draft pick.

A stupidly high draft pick that is accordingly being moved for an UFA rental in Guentzel that the Wild can neither afford or resign. Guentzel, for as good of a player as he is, doesn't move the needle to the point it likely changes where the Wild will pick in the draft

Tell me again where the incentive for Minnesota is? Because I'm not seeing it? Pittsburgh would be stupid NOT to take it, provided Foligno waives his NMC. Which he won't.

2) You would think that Penguins fans of all people would realize that Pittsburgh isn't sending Guentzel *home* at all here.

He's NOT from Minnesota.

He's from Omaha, Nebraska... for Christ's sake.

Sure he played high school hockey here in Minnesota. But that's because it's the mecca for high school hockey in the U.S., whereas Nebraska doesn't really have any worthwhile hockey programs of note to speak of for potential players who want to go pro and attempt to make the NHL.

Back when Guentzel was a young prospect trying to evolve and better his game, going the HS hockey route through Minnesota was a better option to try and make the NHL someday as an American rather than the USHL or even less likely Canadian CHL.

It was a career move/choice on his part. That doesn't particularly make him #OneOfUs
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Dec. 11, 2023 at 9:59 p.m.
#12
14m in dead cap
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Quoting: RazWild
It would technically need more except for one small issue.

1) Did you fail to realize that 1st round pick being shipped to Pittsburgh is currently sitting in the 8th OVA spot? It's a literal top-ten pick right now. Whatever additional value you think you're supposed to be getting is already being made up with a stupidly high draft pick.

A stupidly high draft pick that is accordingly being moved for an UFA rental in Guentzel that the Wild can neither afford or resign. Guentzel, for as good of a player as he is, doesn't move the needle to the point it likely changes where the Wild will pick in the draft

Tell me again where the incentive for Minnesota is? Because I'm not seeing it? Pittsburgh would be stupid NOT to take it, provided Foligno waives his NMC. Which he won't.

2) You would think that Penguins fans of all people would realize that Pittsburgh isn't sending Guentzel *home* at all here.

He's NOT from Minnesota.

He's from Omaha, Nebraska... for Christ's sake.

Sure he played high school hockey here in Minnesota. But that's because it's the mecca for high school hockey in the U.S., whereas Nebraska doesn't really have any worthwhile hockey programs of note to speak of for potential players who want to go pro and attempt to make the NHL.

Back when Guentzel was a young prospect trying to evolve and better his game, going the HS hockey route through Minnesota was a better option to try and make the NHL someday as an American rather than the USHL or even less likely Canadian CHL.

It was a career move/choice on his part. That doesn't particularly make him #OneOfUs


I forgot he wasn't actually from here. My point still stands that there's no reason to acquire a winger if you're not going to compete, which the Wild aren't this year even if they manage to turn things around and get back into a playoff spot.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 10:16 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: RazWild
It would technically need more except for one small issue.

Did you fail to realize that 1st round pick being shipped to Pittsburgh is currently sitting in the 8th OVA spot? It's a literal top-ten pick right now. Whatever additional value you think you're supposed to be getting is already being made up with a stupidly high draft pick.

A stupidly high draft pick that is accordingly being moved for an UFA rental in Guentzel that the Wild can neither afford or resign. Guentzel, for as good of a player as he is, doesn't move the needle to the point it likely changes where the Wild will pick in the draft

Tell me again where the incentive for Minnesota is? Because I'm not seeing it? Pittsburgh would be stupid NOT to take it, provided Foligno waives his NMC. Which he won't.


Sure, I'll play Devil's Advocate. A direct comparison I'd make to Guentzel's worth is the Bo Horvat trade. Horvat didn't have an extention in place at the time, so he that doesn't affect the value. I think for the sake of argument, Guentzel's more consistant play than what Horvat had at the time counteracts Bo playing at a more valuable position. So a roster player, a mid 1st, and an A/B tier prospect. And you're probably right that the 8OA pick probably is worth more to most teams than the 17OA and Aatu Raty, However...

The Wild have been a lot better under Hynes, and I think STL and ARI at least will end up below Minnesota, even without Guentzel. It's top 10 now, but I don't think it'll end up that way. As to Guentzel not moving the needle in terms of draft position, he's tied for 1st in even strength points and would be leading the Wild in scoring even despite the Pens' nonexistent PP. You're arguing that a really good player won't be enough to improve a team that's already trending in the right direction.

As for the cap, sending Foligno back and the cap increase almost entirely counteract what Guentzel is likely to get, and it doesn't look like anyone on the Wild is due for a huge raise next year. The cap will be tight for a year, but it will be with or without him. The Parise and Suter buyouts drop to $833k a piece the season after when Kaprisov, Rossi, and Faber need new deals. Doesn't sound to unreasonable to me.

Minnesota is a team with a franchise winger, several team-friendly deals at the top of the lineup, IMO one of the most underrated defensemen of a generation, and several young and super promising players. And they've been a 100+ point team for the past 2 years (3 if you count their 2021 pace). But because they had early struggles this season that already look like they're in the rear-view mirror, this season is a complete loss and they shouldn't add a consistent 35+ goal, PPG winger. Right...

Ultimately it doesn't matter because I doubt the Pens have any intention of tearing it down in anything but the worst-case scenario. That leaves us as two nerds arguing on the internet over effectively nothing. C'est la vie.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 10:20 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: JayTea
I forgot he wasn't actually from here. My point still stands that there's no reason to acquire a winger if you're not going to compete, which the Wild aren't this year even if they manage to turn things around and get back into a playoff spot.


Don't get me wrong.

I'm a really big Guentzel fan. Comes with the Penguins being my 2nd favorite team after the Wild. And he’s absolutely a better fit on the current 2nd line with Rossi and Zuccarello than Johansson ever would be.

That top-six and two lines together would likely be extremely lethal.

But not to the point of realistically moving the needle to where it changes our draft picking order. And I'm absolutely NOT giving up a top ten pick for Guentzel. Whether he came extended or not.
JayTea liked this.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 10:30 p.m.
#15
Sabres fan
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It’s been said already, but Buffalo has absolutely no use for old man, Carter. Especially not giving up anything of value to get him. In fact, Pittsburgh doesn’t even have anything Buffalo would be interested on their immediate roster in return for Jokiharju in the first place.
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Dec. 11, 2023 at 10:39 p.m.
#16
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Quoting: Haymaker26
Sure, I'll play Devil's Advocate. A direct comparison I'd make to Guentzel's worth is the Bo Horvat trade. Horvat didn't have an extention in place at the time, so he that doesn't affect the value. I think for the sake of argument, Guentzel's more consistant play than what Horvat had at the time counteracts Bo playing at a more valuable position. So a roster player, a mid 1st, and an A/B tier prospect. And you're probably right that the 8OA pick probably is worth more to most teams than the 17OA and Aatu Raty, However...

The Wild have been a lot better under Hynes, and I think STL and ARI at least will end up below Minnesota, even without Guentzel. It's top 10 now, but I don't think it'll end up that way. As to Guentzel not moving the needle in terms of draft position, he's tied for 1st in even strength points and would be leading the Wild in scoring even despite the Pens' nonexistent PP. You're arguing that a really good player won't be enough to improve a team that's already trending in the right direction.

As for the cap, sending Foligno back and the cap increase almost entirely counteract what Guentzel is likely to get, and it doesn't look like anyone on the Wild is due for a huge raise next year. The cap will be tight for a year, but it will be with or without him. The Parise and Suter buyouts drop to $833k a piece the season after when Kaprisov, Rossi, and Faber need new deals. Doesn't sound to unreasonable to me.

Minnesota is a team with a franchise winger, several team-friendly deals at the top of the lineup, IMO one of the most underrated defensemen of a generation, and several young and super promising players. And they've been a 100+ point team for the past 2 years (3 if you count their 2021 pace). But because they had early struggles this season that already look like they're in the rear-view mirror, this season is a complete loss and they shouldn't add a consistent 35+ goal, PPG winger. Right...

Ultimately it doesn't matter because I doubt the Pens have any intention of tearing it down in anything but the worst-case scenario. That leaves us as two nerds arguing on the internet over effectively nothing. C'est la vie.


I'll grant you the Horvat value. Or rather close to it. I maintain that it would be slightly less due to the fact Horvat plays the more premium position.

And you're right that the teams trending in the right direction. Provided someone was of the opinion that they wanted the team to win.

But the teams defense isn't up to snuff. Outside of Spurgeon, Brodin, and Faber. The 4-6 spots are somewhat brutal and leave a lot to be desired. Team depth there is extremely suspect.

The entire reason the Wild have been atrocious this year primarily comes down to how poor the defense has been. It's looked much better since the coaching change, yes. But that lack of depth is still being exposed.

Say we acquired Guentzel. That top-six is absolutely lethal. Whatever line combinations you pick out, Guentzel is going to play 2nd line LW, but it's going to produce regardless no matter who's playing what or where.

The issue is again going to be the depth, and the bottom six. Too many players making too much, and too many NMC's among them. You can't feasibly move out both the cap space to make it work and make enough room on the roster to fit him. Not with all these players with NMC's clogging up our bottom six.

Either way, the teams lack of legitimate depth is going to cost it. Guentzel doesn't change that lack of depth.
 
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