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Offer Sheets don't happen any more

Will we see any offer sheets this offseason?
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Jul. 5, 2017 at 7:30 p.m.
#1
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Why is everyone acting like offer sheets happen? They don't.
Jul. 5, 2017 at 8:13 p.m.
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Why is everyone acting like offer sheets happen? They don't.


who has been acting like they happen all of the time?

MTL Fans?
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Jul. 5, 2017 at 9:32 p.m.
#3
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Why is everyone acting like offer sheets happen? They don't.


who has been acting like they happen all of the time?

MTL Fans?


well i keep seeing armchair-gm teams with offer sheets and everywhere i go i see the idea of an offer sheet on a certain player, when they never happen.
Jul. 5, 2017 at 9:58 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Why is everyone acting like offer sheets happen? They don't.


who has been acting like they happen all of the time?

MTL Fans?


Yea on the Armchair teams, all those Habs fans signing Draisaitl.
Jul. 5, 2017 at 10:30 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Why is everyone acting like offer sheets happen? They don't.


you're implying that it is multiple teams offer sheeting players, when it appears to be MTL fans only. its been five years or so since an offer sheet, so its due for one team to do so
Jul. 5, 2017 at 10:39 p.m.
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Why is everyone acting like offer sheets happen? They don't.


Well a lot of teams make false claims they will match any offer sheet like Boston over some guy or Oilers over some cheap shot artist who should have been suspended for rest of his playoff round against the Sharks. Lots of idiots who don't know anything like to make click bait articles or speculate on people getting offer sheets or this guy will get one. I can't think of many if any offer sheets, I think Dustin Penner had one, pancakes was real great on the Kings too just for the record wink. GMs probably get blacklisted or really irked if somebody signs a player to an offer sheet making them harder to deal with too. I thought a few players would be worth offer sheets even if its a 1st and 3rd round pick. I'm sure could probably count on 1 hand with fingers left over how many actually signed an offer sheet or were lost for them. This is a slow time of the year so they gotta make fake news that somebody will be taken away by an offer sheet to justify over paying players or giving out bad contracts too smile.
Jul. 5, 2017 at 11:28 p.m.
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I read somewhere that you have to have five things work out for an offer sheet to be signed with intent to work
1. The team that has to sign the player has to either not want the player on their roster, be unable to have the player, or rather have the compensation
2. The player has to want to leave, or at least not care about how his salary affects the team
3. The team sending the offer sheet has to be appealing to the player
4. The team sending the offer sheet has to have the necessary draft pick compensation
5. The team sending the offer sheet has to have the cap space to fit the player

There's only three players that seem worthy of any kind of offer sheet, and aren't signed up for arbitration:
1. Leon Draisaitl
2. Ryan Johansen
3. David Pastranak
There also aren't that many teams that have both the compensation and the cap space for players, along with a place the player wants to play. Furthermore, there's no indication that any of those players actually want to leave. Therefore, it's EXTREMELY unlikely any offer sheet will be sent (as much as we can hope for it), even though I can see at least a few situations where that investment may be worthwhile (Carolina, Montreal).

How do we fix offer sheets? I'm not sure.........
Jul. 6, 2017 at 12:10 a.m.
#8
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Why is everyone acting like offer sheets happen? They don't.


you're implying that it is multiple teams offer sheeting players, when it appears to be MTL fans only. its been five years or so since an offer sheet, so its due for one team to do so


i've seen them for other teams
Jul. 6, 2017 at 12:17 a.m.
#9
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Quoting: tadhockey
I read somewhere that you have to have five things work out for an offer sheet to be signed with intent to work
1. The team that has to sign the player has to either not want the player on their roster, be unable to have the player, or rather have the compensation
2. The player has to want to leave, or at least not care about how his salary affects the team
3. The team sending the offer sheet has to be appealing to the player
4. The team sending the offer sheet has to have the necessary draft pick compensation
5. The team sending the offer sheet has to have the cap space to fit the player

There's only three players that seem worthy of any kind of offer sheet, and aren't signed up for arbitration:
1. Leon Draisaitl
2. Ryan Johansen
3. David Pastranak
There also aren't that many teams that have both the compensation and the cap space for players, along with a place the player wants to play. Furthermore, there's no indication that any of those players actually want to leave. Therefore, it's EXTREMELY unlikely any offer sheet will be sent (as much as we can hope for it), even though I can see at least a few situations where that investment may be worthwhile (Carolina, Montreal).

How do we fix offer sheets? I'm not sure.........


Well I read an article about the Capitals going into the Abyss that wants to give 3.9M in a bridge deal for like 2 years to Burakovsky saying it would only cost a 2nd round pick etc... I'm pretty sure you need your own draft picks so would need 1/3 or 1/2/3 while the highest is like 4 1st round picks of your own not ones you get in trades or whatever. I don't think the NHL wants to actually have offer sheets just make it something to talk about or for GM games. Fixing it wouldn't be that hard, most of the contracts/numbers are not really bad compensation wise looking at trades made... Like Kings traded 2 second round picks for Robyn Regehr while the player guy in article wanted to give an offer sheet is a better player who would only cost a 2nd rounder. Even if look at the Ryan Reaves trade that would be a major bargain smile. I think Schultz would have been worth an offer sheet around 5.6M or more would have only been like 1st/3rd... While anything below about 7.6 would have only cost a 1st/2nd/3rd for a right shot D-man who can generate offense that is better than many draft picks in 1st/3rd round or some teams entire 1-3 picks heh. I'm sure there lower named players who would be offer sheets for like 2nd round pick or whatever. Somebody posted a chart on a comment on a site that was a year or two old but seemed reasonable... In NFL they have the poison pill provisions that can jack the deal to point that the team can't match based on some bogus stuff... Like if play X amt of games in certain city or stadium it ups the amt or other weird things like that. Not needing own draft picks for them, allowing to obtain picks that would give the team lower or best pick in each round might help though. That way teams that might have traded their own 1st to 3rd round picks can get them from another team to do the offer sheet.
Jul. 6, 2017 at 9:07 a.m.
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Quoting: phillyjabroni


you're implying that it is multiple teams offer sheeting players, when it appears to be MTL fans only. its been five years or so since an offer sheet, so its due for one team to do so


i've seen them for other teams


1.) if they have the compensation wrong, they are eliminated from the conversation. most times they either don't have it right or just don't provide compensation at all. They only give up 2 1st, 2nd, 3rd round pick for a 8x8 offer sheet, when you actually have to give up 4 1st round picks.

2.) MTL fans have been consistent with offer sheeting Draisaitl, has players like Tyler Johnson, Nino Neiderider have not been to the same extent as Draisaitl.
Jul. 6, 2017 at 11:56 a.m.
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
Quoting: rangersandislesfan


i've seen them for other teams


1.) if they have the compensation wrong, they are eliminated from the conversation. most times they either don't have it right or just don't provide compensation at all. They only give up 2 1st, 2nd, 3rd round pick for a 8x8 offer sheet, when you actually have to give up 4 1st round picks.

2.) MTL fans have been consistent with offer sheeting Draisaitl, has players like Tyler Johnson, Nino Neiderider have not been to the same extent as Draisaitl.


wait, so 8M per year is 4 1sts? I actually didn't know that.
Jul. 6, 2017 at 12:10 p.m.
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I think it comes down to risk v reward. If you sign Drisital at 8+ And accepts what are the odds that those 4 first round picks are going to be good. Would you rather have 1 Drisital or potential four good players. If they are late first rounders you can make an argument that they won't be as good but what if it back fires and Edmonton gets a top ten, even a lottery winner pick out of those. Look at the Dustin Penner what if they would have selected some of the other much better players avaible
Jul. 6, 2017 at 12:27 p.m.
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Jul. 6, 2017 at 12:53 p.m.
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this is exactly what I mean by people don't understand the Offer Sheet rules.

8,000,000 per year is (2) 1st, 2nd, 3rd round picks. However, if the deal is over 5 years, you take the total value and divide by 5. (8x8)/(5) = 12,500,000 million AAV. This is the number that is used to determine the Offer Sheet compensation, which would be (4) 1st round picks.

you have proved my point RAIF, that the only offer sheets you can take into consideration when discussing "will offer sheets happen this summer" is when the individuals that are making them actually have them correct. otherwise, they should be treated as nothing. this whole conversation is about how individuals anticipate an offer sheet to happen, but you have taken into consideration all offer sheet AGM teams, not the ones that actually are correct.

I will go out on a limb and say that finding an Offer Sheet, from a MTL or not, with correct compensation, is few and far between.
Jul. 6, 2017 at 12:55 p.m.
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You also clearly didn't read over the source you used...here is an excerpt that supports my claim in my previous post:

"AAV – dividing the total compensation offered by the lesser of the length of the contract or by 5. Ie. a seven-year, $49 million deal has an AAV of $9.8 million ($49 divide by 5) but a salary cap hit of $7 million … A five-year, $35 million deal would have a $7 million AAV and cap hit … A big difference in draft pick compensation."
Jul. 6, 2017 at 12:57 p.m.
#16
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in a nutshell, the not-obvious nature of offer sheets, combined with the near-collusion between the old boy's club that is upper management in hockey, pretty much kills any chance of offer sheets *actually* happening.

people can offer sheet all they want on the armchair-GM forums, but it's not especially reflective of reality.
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Jul. 6, 2017 at 1:02 p.m.
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Quoting: DragonRaptorHybrid
in a nutshell, the not-obvious nature of offer sheets, combined with the near-collusion between the old boy's club that is upper management in hockey, pretty much kills any chance of offer sheets *actually* happening.

people can offer sheet all they want on the armchair-GM forums, but it's not especially reflective of reality.


its like the same thing as everyone is making AGM teams with them getting Duchene, some more realistic than others, but everyone, by making them, is a.) assuming that they meet Sakic's "reasonable" return. and b.) assuming that Duchene will be in traded, regardless of the return
Jul. 6, 2017 at 1:17 p.m.
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
Quoting: DragonRaptorHybrid
in a nutshell, the not-obvious nature of offer sheets, combined with the near-collusion between the old boy's club that is upper management in hockey, pretty much kills any chance of offer sheets *actually* happening.

people can offer sheet all they want on the armchair-GM forums, but it's not especially reflective of reality.


its like the same thing as everyone is making AGM teams with them getting Duchene, some more realistic than others, but everyone, by making them, is a.) assuming that they meet Sakic's "reasonable" return. and b.) assuming that Duchene will be in traded, regardless of the return


I don't think Duchene will be traded.
Jul. 6, 2017 at 1:18 p.m.
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Quoting: phillyjabroni


its like the same thing as everyone is making AGM teams with them getting Duchene, some more realistic than others, but everyone, by making them, is a.) assuming that they meet Sakic's "reasonable" return. and b.) assuming that Duchene will be in traded, regardless of the return


I don't think Duchene will be traded.


it wasn't specifically directed to you, just an example of what I am saying about obsoleteness within an unrealistic situation
Jul. 6, 2017 at 1:19 p.m.
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Quoting: phillyjabroni


its like the same thing as everyone is making AGM teams with them getting Duchene, some more realistic than others, but everyone, by making them, is a.) assuming that they meet Sakic's "reasonable" return. and b.) assuming that Duchene will be in traded, regardless of the return


I don't think Duchene will be traded.
k.
Jul. 6, 2017 at 1:20 p.m.
#21
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
Quoting: rangersandislesfan


I don't think Duchene will be traded.


it wasn't specifically directed to you, just an example of what I am saying about obsoleteness within an unrealistic situation


i know, i was just saying i don't think he will be traded.
Jul. 6, 2017 at 1:29 p.m.
#22
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Quoting: phillyjabroni


it wasn't specifically directed to you, just an example of what I am saying about obsoleteness within an unrealistic situation


i know, i was just saying i don't think he will be traded.


okay? not sure why, but alright.

do you understand what I am saying about the Offer Sheets?
Jul. 6, 2017 at 1:36 p.m.
#23
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
Quoting: rangersandislesfan


i know, i was just saying i don't think he will be traded.


okay? not sure why, but alright.

do you understand what I am saying about the Offer Sheets?


kind of.
Jul. 6, 2017 at 1:37 p.m.
#24
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Do you understand the compensation rules?
Jul. 6, 2017 at 1:37 p.m.
#25
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
Do you understand the compensation rules?


yes, mostly.
 
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