SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Armchair-GM

Fire Keefe what you waiting for

Created by: Barup
Team: 2023-24 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Jan. 20, 2024
Published: Jan. 20, 2024
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2024
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the NYI
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the VAN
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the OTT
2025
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the CHI
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2026
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$83,500,000$83,456,450$0$0$43,550
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$800,000$800,000
C, LW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,640,250$11,640,250
C
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$10,903,000$10,903,000
RW
NMC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$925,000$925,000
LW, RW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,500,000$5,500,000
LW, RW
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,000,000$3,000,000
C, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,100,000$2,100,000
RW, C, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$775,000$775,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,400,000$2,400,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$762,500$762,500
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$796,667$796,667
LW, RW
RFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$7,500,000$7,500,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 7
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$875,000$875,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$775,000$775,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,000,000$2,000,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,550,000$3,550,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$800,000$800,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,400,000$1,400,000
RD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$775,000$775,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,100,000$1,100,000
RD
RFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,350,000$1,350,000
RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,625,000$5,625,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$766,667$766,667
G
RFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,687,500$4,687,500
G
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,150,000$4,150,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1

Embed Code

  • To display this team on another website or blog, add this iFrame to the appropriate page
  • Customize the height attribute in the iFrame code below to fit your website appropriately. Minimum recommended: 400px.

Text-Embed

Click to Highlight
Jan. 21 at 12:03 a.m.
#26
Rip
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2022
Posts: 12,371
Likes: 3,250
Quoting: WN88
When Woll went down, we knew it was going to be a TOUGH stretch. I thought it was abundantly clear he was masking a lot of the defensive player's mistakes. This fanbase is so ridiculous. Panthers are on a 4 game losing streak, LA who looked like a WAGON at the start of the season have won like 1 game in the past 10. You don't hear a word.

I'm honestly convinced that the negativity influenced by the media/fanbase has risen so high to a point it impedes the performance of the players. It just has to. You don't see this level of attention and scrutiny anywhere else in the league.


Keefe was completely out coached vs Florida. The same thing hurt them every game. Quick strike offence off a turnover. Keefe did nothing until they were down 3-0. And all he said was, I thought we played well enough to win but it didn't go out way. It never does for Keefe in the playoffs. Tampa being the outlier where they were the better team but the Leafs won. Sort of the opposite of the year before.
swinny liked this.
Jan. 21 at 12:10 a.m.
#27
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2018
Posts: 9,869
Likes: 2,367
Keefe should be demoted to the Ahl.
Jan. 21 at 12:12 a.m.
#28
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2020
Posts: 941
Likes: 216
Quoting: RipNasty
Keefe was completely out coached vs Florida. The same thing hurt them every game. Quick strike offence off a turnover. Keefe did nothing until they were down 3-0. And all he said was, I thought we played well enough to win but it didn't go out way. It never does for Keefe in the playoffs. Tampa being the outlier where they were the better team but the Leafs won. Sort of the opposite of the year before.


The reason Florida was able to generate so much off of turnovers was because we had become such a slow team. That’s a personnel issue…. Mikheyev and engvall replaced with Jarnkrok and Oreilly on top of Bordie, McCabe, Tavares, Giordano, Schenn, etc.

Going into those playoffs, that was probably our biggest Achilles heel, and Florida capitalized on that. Everyone knew that. When you get bad goaltending, you’re flaws are bound to appear worse than they are.

If there’s anything Keefe actually should’ve done, it was motivating them to be more aggressive offensively and not let Bobrovsky get confidence early in the series, especially in games 1 and 2. I believe that was something he actually mentioned after they were eliminated. However, that’s more of a ‘vibe’ thing and I’m not sure if there’s anything tactically they could’ve done different with the way Bob was playing.
Jan. 21 at 8:23 a.m.
#29
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 2,173
Likes: 840
Quoting: WN88
When Woll went down, we knew it was going to be a TOUGH stretch. I thought it was abundantly clear he was masking a lot of the defensive player's mistakes. This fanbase is so ridiculous. Panthers are on a 4 game losing streak, LA who looked like a WAGON at the start of the season have won like 1 game in the past 10. You don't hear a word.

I'm honestly convinced that the negativity influenced by the media/fanbase has risen so high to a point it impedes the performance of the players. It just has to. You don't see this level of attention and scrutiny anywhere else in the league.


To be fair to Keefe as well, I saw this stat and this makes your point about the fan base perfectly. Over Keefe’s career he’s rarely lost 4 games straight. And when he does, they bounce back strong:
2020-21: 0-3-2 ➡️ 7-0-2
2021-22: 0-3-1 ➡️ 15-2-1
2022-23: 0-2-2 ➡️ 15-1-4
2023-24: 0-2-2 ➡️ 11-2-4

The fab base likes to be irrational and emotional when things aren’t going right. It’s ridiculous. Like a couple users told me earlier: “Keefe only has a good record because of the core 4” - so they can blame the core 4 players for the wins but can’t hold them accountable for their loses? HAH. It’s no wonder why players don’t like signing in Toronto.
WN88 liked this.
Jan. 21 at 8:59 a.m.
#30
Rip
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2022
Posts: 12,371
Likes: 3,250
Quoting: WN88
The reason Florida was able to generate so much off of turnovers was because we had become such a slow team. That’s a personnel issue…. Mikheyev and engvall replaced with Jarnkrok and Oreilly on top of Bordie, McCabe, Tavares, Giordano, Schenn, etc.

Going into those playoffs, that was probably our biggest Achilles heel, and Florida capitalized on that. Everyone knew that. When you get bad goaltending, you’re flaws are bound to appear worse than they are.

If there’s anything Keefe actually should’ve done, it was motivating them to be more aggressive offensively and not let Bobrovsky get confidence early in the series, especially in games 1 and 2. I believe that was something he actually mentioned after they were eliminated. However, that’s more of a ‘vibe’ thing and I’m not sure if there’s anything tactically they could’ve done different with the way Bob was playing.


Keefe didn't do anything. He should have turned the team into a trap team vs Florida. Very patient, wait for the chances to come because Florida gives them up big time. But get you when you attack aggressively. Should have been trying to win games 1-0 instead of 5-1 because they mentality saw them lose 3-2
Jan. 21 at 9:03 a.m.
#31
Rip
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2022
Posts: 12,371
Likes: 3,250
Quoting: Ryminister_92
To be fair to Keefe as well, I saw this stat and this makes your point about the fan base perfectly. Over Keefe’s career he’s rarely lost 4 games straight. And when he does, they bounce back strong:
2020-21: 0-3-2 ➡️ 7-0-2
2021-22: 0-3-1 ➡️ 15-2-1
2022-23: 0-2-2 ➡️ 15-1-4
2023-24: 0-2-2 ➡️ 11-2-4

The fab base likes to be irrational and emotional when things aren’t going right. It’s ridiculous. Like a couple users told me earlier: “Keefe only has a good record because of the core 4” - so they can blame the core 4 players for the wins but can’t hold them accountable for their loses? HAH. It’s no wonder why players don’t like signing in Toronto.


When the losses come off the other team just our coaching Keefe he absolutely deserves the heat. The team rarely comes prepared to play and that is the coach. He doesn't hold his own players accountable either. Keefe's record is a mirage. I think he's a fine regular season coach of he has the players he wants (the core paired with a bottom 6 of defensive low risk possession guys) but when you play a team in a 7 game series you have to make adjustments to what the opposition does. Every team has made changes that sink TO in the playoffs but the Leafs have never done that under Keefe. It's always the same thing, the Leafs look good for a game or two and then the offence disappears. Why? Because what TO does offensively never changes. The players do exactly what Keefe wants and when it stops working it's because the other team has made adjustments. Keefe doesn't do that and that's why he needs to go.
Jan. 21 at 9:52 a.m.
#32
Banned
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2022
Posts: 5,094
Likes: 2,376
Quoting: ricochetii
What do people think a new coach will accomplish with this roster, aside from the "new coach bump"?

Are the forwards going to score more?
Not likely enough to matter. They are already 6th in the NHL as a group. There's not a lot of room for improvement there.

Are the defense going to give up less?
There's room for improvement there, as they are mid-bottom third in shots, goals, HDSA, etc.
The question is whether that is a personnel issue, a goaltending issue, or a coaching issue.

I think you have to answer the goaltending question first when that group consists of a rookie with 30 games played and a guy who is almost a full 1.0 GAA and 0.6 SV% worse in the same number of games with the same team. Jones is a 3rd stringer who had a good 10 game stretch with 7 strong performances, but has returned closer to expectations in his last 4 starts.

That may be all it takes to get the rest of the team in line.
They could be giving up more high danger chances because they don't have the confidence in their goaltending to stop the less dangerous shots, just as an example.

This isn't like Edmonton, where a number of players were underperforming on top of their goaltending issues.
The players eventually returned to normal and that has allowed Skinner to regain his form.
That was happening with or without a coaching change (imo).

Not really the case in Toronto. There are not enough players underperforming, it's simply a lot of players who's normal performance is not enough.
That's to be expected when 60% of your team is made up of rookies and budget options.

There are legitimate reasons to believe a new coach may have more success in how he deploys his assets, but that impact won't be as great as believed.


It's legitimately refreshing to hear talk of the other Canadian teams such as the Canucks, Oilers, Jets and even Flames (vomit.. with their trade chips) from the media instead of Leafs madness 24/7.
It feels like a warm blanket to watch the Leafs self implode. Steve Dangle is actually tolerable as a clown car.

Dom had the stat that outside their core 4, the Leafs are now a below average team and the core isnt close to as dominant in previous years. Tavares, notably, has taken a big step back. Let the turmoil and bad contracts come to fruition.
Jan. 21 at 10:05 a.m.
#33
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 2,173
Likes: 840
Quoting: RipNasty
When the losses come off the other team just our coaching Keefe he absolutely deserves the heat. The team rarely comes prepared to play and that is the coach. He doesn't hold his own players accountable either. Keefe's record is a mirage. I think he's a fine regular season coach of he has the players he wants (the core paired with a bottom 6 of defensive low risk possession guys) but when you play a team in a 7 game series you have to make adjustments to what the opposition does. Every team has made changes that sink TO in the playoffs but the Leafs have never done that under Keefe. It's always the same thing, the Leafs look good for a game or two and then the offence disappears. Why? Because what TO does offensively never changes. The players do exactly what Keefe wants and when it stops working it's because the other team has made adjustments. Keefe doesn't do that and that's why he needs to go.


Again, you’re one of the users on here that wants to blame the players when they win but not when they lose. You can’t have it both ways.

You say the team doesn’t come to play.. the was the same issue under Babcock. Too many slow starts that cost the team. So how can you keep blaming the coaches when it’s the same core that has the issues with multiple coaches? Hell the same players can’t make a line change without getting too many men on the ice and that was the same under Babcock - that’s a personnel issue. Not the coach.

Doesn’t hold players accountable? He benches guys all the time. Liljegren gets benched. Timmins gets scratched (thank god). Robertson scratched a limited ice time. All because they aren’t playing good or giving the team any positive impact. If you’re thinking he doesn’t hold the core 4 accountable because he doesn’t bench them or scratch them then you’re just completely nuts kid. You don’t bench players that make $11M per season - Shanahan would have him fired instantly if he did that. That’s not how you run a business.

How can you sit there and say Keefe has the roster he wants when he’s come out and said that he doesn’t? He literally said he doesn’t know who he can trust in key moments - that’s a message to Treliving to go out and acquire guys he can trust. Saying he has the roster he wants is just pure ignorance when the coach is saying the exact opposite.

Maybe they just lose in playoffs because the roster isn’t good enough. The defence has never been good enough to shut down guys in the playoffs because the way it was constructed was to defend by playing offence. That’s Shanahan’s fault. Jim Montgomery got out coached by Florida last playoffs. So did Rod Brind’Amour.. I don’t see their fan bases calling for them to be fired. Hell Carolina couldn’t score against Florida either. But again, no one calls for their jobs. Only Keefe’s cause he’s in Toronto and Leafs fans are probably the most emotional fans in sports and they don’t know how to control them. They overreact way too quick.
WN88 liked this.
Jan. 21 at 10:47 a.m.
#34
Rip
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2022
Posts: 12,371
Likes: 3,250
Quoting: Ryminister_92
Again, you’re one of the users on here that wants to blame the players when they win but not when they lose. You can’t have it both ways.

You say the team doesn’t come to play.. the was the same issue under Babcock. Too many slow starts that cost the team. So how can you keep blaming the coaches when it’s the same core that has the issues with multiple coaches? Hell the same players can’t make a line change without getting too many men on the ice and that was the same under Babcock - that’s a personnel issue. Not the coach.

Doesn’t hold players accountable? He benches guys all the time. Liljegren gets benched. Timmins gets scratched (thank god). Robertson scratched a limited ice time. All because they aren’t playing good or giving the team any positive impact. If you’re thinking he doesn’t hold the core 4 accountable because he doesn’t bench them or scratch them then you’re just completely nuts kid. You don’t bench players that make $11M per season - Shanahan would have him fired instantly if he did that. That’s not how you run a business.

How can you sit there and say Keefe has the roster he wants when he’s come out and said that he doesn’t? He literally said he doesn’t know who he can trust in key moments - that’s a message to Treliving to go out and acquire guys he can trust. Saying he has the roster he wants is just pure ignorance when the coach is saying the exact opposite.

Maybe they just lose in playoffs because the roster isn’t good enough. The defence has never been good enough to shut down guys in the playoffs because the way it was constructed was to defend by playing offence. That’s Shanahan’s fault. Jim Montgomery got out coached by Florida last playoffs. So did Rod Brind’Amour.. I don’t see their fan bases calling for them to be fired. Hell Carolina couldn’t score against Florida either. But again, no one calls for their jobs. Only Keefe’s cause he’s in Toronto and Leafs fans are probably the most emotional fans in sports and they don’t know how to control them. They overreact way too quick.


The irony here is stunning
Jan. 21 at 11:36 a.m.
#35
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 4,839
Likes: 2,021
Quoting: WN88
1. Bertuzzi, Keefe, and anyone that watches hockey knows what his role is. Not sure where the TOI stat is from, but I'd have to assume that it's largely due to him not being on pp1, which is understandable considering we've had a top 5 pp for like 5 years now.

2. Liljegren had an incredible 1st half last year. The only reason he didn't see his role increase in the 2nd half is because he straight-up wasn't good. He lost his spot to Holl, and for good reason. He's also rarely thrived whenever given the chance to play in a bigger role. The way he played earlier tonight against the Canucks is a big example as to why he hasn't yet totally earned the trust of Keefe to be thrown into top-pairing minutes.

3. That third line is NOT good. Our third line hasn't been good all year. That's largely due to Max Domi. The bottom line is that Robertson, although skilled, isn't suitable for that role. There literally isn't a fit for him on this team. He just isn't a good fit with Domi. Their inability to play defense is just way too risky.

4. No idea why you're so obsessed with connor timmins. He's so mid.

5. Uhhhhhh... so you want to take away Bertuzzi from the front of the net on the PP? Talk about contradicting your first point lmaoo.


1. I never said take Bert off the PP. My suggestion is to add Gregor to one of the units. Traffic in front matters.

2. Liligren: so he goes into a slump and you decrease his role or bench him? As a young player, this does nothing for his confidence. You have to let him.play through it; more one on one coaching, talk to the kid. He is obviously part.of the big picture, so you play him as such.

3. The Robertson-Domi-Jarnkrok unit was actually surprising good. It produced. It could drive play o some level. Defensively not a fan, but when these are the puzzle pieces you are given, and they fit on some.level, you go with it. (I will note I don't see Robertson as a long term fit, but, where he could have been a viable trade chip to balance that line, his constant benching tanks his value again).

4. Not obsessed with Timmins. But, he is a solid 2-way defender who can produce offensively the back end. He is only 24. Room to grow. And when Giordano and Brodie are looking Ling in the tooth, playing Timmins to manage workload between the vets makes sense. Keeps them fresher. Not overplayed. Allows Timmins game to grow if it will. (Note: like Roberston, I no longer see Timmins in Toronto long term. His skill set isn't what the team needs. And like Robertson, his constant benching detracts from any value he has).

I will add, out side of the Benoit signing (and I loved it), the UFA signings I hated. Bertuzzi was the type if player needed, not at $5.5 million. Domi at $3 million wasa head scratcher on many levels. Only way I felt itmade any sense is if he was reunited with Marner tonsee if they could recapture their London chemistry (and we are yet to see it). Klingberg made me vomit.

These additions (outside of Klingberg, as it was just so stupid) gave Keefe line up flexibility I simply don't see him using. Only defense (pun intended) Keefe has is Van Ryn's defensive systems have proven terrible - and a guy I don't see back next year.... but as a coach, you would recognize it and maybe reassign Van Ryn.

Every coach has a shelf life. I think Keefe's is up.
Jan. 21 at 11:44 a.m.
#36
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 4,839
Likes: 2,021
Quoting: Ryminister_92
To be fair to Keefe as well, I saw this stat and this makes your point about the fan base perfectly. Over Keefe’s career he’s rarely lost 4 games straight. And when he does, they bounce back strong:
2020-21: 0-3-2 ➡️ 7-0-2
2021-22: 0-3-1 ➡️ 15-2-1
2022-23: 0-2-2 ➡️ 15-1-4
2023-24: 0-2-2 ➡️ 11-2-4

The fab base likes to be irrational and emotional when things aren’t going right. It’s ridiculous. Like a couple users told me earlier: “Keefe only has a good record because of the core 4” - so they can blame the core 4 players for the wins but can’t hold them accountable for their loses? HAH. It’s no wonder why players don’t like signing in Toronto.


Who said we as a fanbase don't hold the core 4 accountable?

That I'd an awefully bold assertion. Out of the core 4, the only one whose playoff performance isn't crotiqued is (shockingly) Nylander. He finds a way to produce.

Leafs fans are brutally harsh on Marner's offense going cold. Harsh on Matthews as well.

Oh no. We do hold them accountable.

But here is the flip side.

Keefe's deployment of the 4 over the course of an 82 game season has them playing around 23 minutes a game. So, how much gas is left in the tank when it matters? Now Nylander, sees about 20 minutes..... and is ready for the show. In form, not burnt out.

Keefe has has a bench, but has rarely used it.

This is not to suggest the fanbase doesn't recognize the big guys don't need to find another gear. They definitely do.
Jan. 21 at 12:00 p.m.
#37
Avatar of the user
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 2,173
Likes: 840
Quoting: swinny
Who said we as a fanbase don't hold the core 4 accountable?

That I'd an awefully bold assertion. Out of the core 4, the only one whose playoff performance isn't crotiqued is (shockingly) Nylander. He finds a way to produce.

Leafs fans are brutally harsh on Marner's offense going cold. Harsh on Matthews as well.

Oh no. We do hold them accountable.

But here is the flip side.

Keefe's deployment of the 4 over the course of an 82 game season has them playing around 23 minutes a game. So, how much gas is left in the tank when it matters? Now Nylander, sees about 20 minutes..... and is ready for the show. In form, not burnt out.

Keefe has has a bench, but has rarely used it.

This is not to suggest the fanbase doesn't recognize the big guys don't need to find another gear. They definitely do.


You just made my point even further about the roster not being good enough.. Keefe has to over play the core 4 because the depth isn’t good enough. A third line of Robertson-Domi-Jarnkrok is terrible defensively. You can’t trust that so you have to give more defensive minutes to the guys he trusts in his own end.. like Matthews and Marner.
Jan. 21 at 2:17 p.m.
#38
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 4,839
Likes: 2,021
Quoting: Ryminister_92
You just made my point even further about the roster not being good enough.. Keefe has to over play the core 4 because the depth isn’t good enough. A third line of Robertson-Domi-Jarnkrok is terrible defensively. You can’t trust that so you have to give more defensive minutes to the guys he trusts in his own end.. like Matthews and Marner.


No I didn't.

You want to win a division, play the big 4. And that isn't happening.

You want to win in the playoffs? Manage your bench over 82 games, then play the big 4 more in the playoffs.

He doesn't play his bench. Ever. Where I agree the Roberston-Domi-Jarkrok 3rd unit was bad defensively, they were on the positive side of the goal differential ledger. So there is that. Even that 4th line of Gregor-Kampf-McMann isn't horrible. It does what it is supposed to do.

And he has certainly had better depth than this in the past..... same strategy. Same results. For how many years?

I will never say this team should have won a Cup by now, but it is also fair to say they should have won more than 1 playoff series in 5 years.

I will maintain - Tortarella's team is not as good. Yet, they are winning games. He plays his bench.....

Nashville, no where near as good on paper, running with the Leafs, because they play the bench.

I can do this all day. Top end talent is great. But if you don't manage minutes, it ends in 1st round losses year after year after year.
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Submit Poll