Not trying to get involved in trade negotiations but Rodzik is my best friend IRL and that subban offer involving demars was ridiculously low, like maybe the worst offer I've seen on here. And in no way shape or form is klefbom better than subban. And he's not a #1D either. Rodzik's counter may have been a little high but it's certainly more in line than what you offered

Dude you offered demars for subban... doesn't get much worse than that.

Except I didn't. I offered Demers, Forsling, a 1st, and prospect close to the NHL.

lol! Klefbom isn't a #1.. idk what world youre living in. And if that's one of the worst offers you have seen in this game then idk how you have a team because that's just admitting you aren't active. You make it sound like it was a one for one - which obviously is way low, but if you think The drop off from Demers and the extra pieces I offered was that astronomically off then im glad you came to the rescue of your friend.

I could name 20 D easily who are better than klefbom... he's nowhere close to subban. He's a fringe #1 at best and definitely not a #1 on a cup team. And the "pieces" you offered were scarp. A B/C prospect and a 2nd round pick doesn't make up the astronomical difference between subban and demars. That offer was worse than any offer I've ever received before. I'm sure there have been worse but that's the worst I've seen

lol... i would love to see this list when you have the time...

Do it I dare you

**in no order**

Subban, letang, doughty, Hedman, Karlsson, weber, Keith, Josi, vlasic, burns, mcdonaugh, suter, giordano, Carlson, weresnki, jones, peiterangelo, OEL, klingberg, muzzin

There's more that I would argue aswell (IE. Hamilton, trouba, big buff, risto, etc...) but I'll just give you 20 no brainers

Klefbom is good but he's not a #1 IMO

Even though I disagree with your list I applaud you for making it in the middle of the night

3:30 Eastern time. Anyways this place isn't meant to talk about hockey players. If we wanna have a klefbom discussion we should use a different forum

hahaha this guy literally just mentioned Weber, Josi, Suter, Carlson, Jones, Klingberg, Muzzin, Letang, Hamilton, Trouba, Buff, Risto, etc.!!! haha I'll have what he;s having.. nice try bud but no. Not even close.

.. what's your criteria of good defenseman. Maybe that would help me understand how in any world you could think Josi is better than Klefbom when he is the 4th best defenseman on his own team. I take it points are all that matters to you or something. I'd say Karlsson, Doughty, Hedman are better. Subban, Burns, Keith, Mcdonaugh, and OEL are all in the same tier as Klefbom. All those other guys are below. Josi, Jones, Suter and that bunch aren't near as good. Werenski i'd put close to Klefbom especially if he repeats his performance from this past year but Ghost had a better rookie year than him and looked how that turned out.

You're delusional. Wow. No sense arguing with you aha. Typical flyers fan

lol which part.

Don't put Subban and demers in the same trade. There's a reason Florida exposed him in the draft lottery and Vegas didn't pick him. He's a #3 at best and fully healthy. Forslinf is good but not a top end prospect. The first u offer is basically a 2nd theoretically. I wasn't expecting u to take my offer. But it was a wake up call for the kind of offer I'm looking for for subban. Like a klefbom ++ deal would be ideal.

I agree with most of the players mhockey91 has mentioned that are better than klefbom. Although I would really like to to see him do well this year. I highly rate him but he has only had one good year and that's not enough to surpass most of the D mentioned. If he can repeat and excel this year than this time next year we can throw him more involved in this discussion. There's a reason I would want him involved in a Subban trade.

But he isn't on the same level as some guys you mentioned like Keith and josi and Subban and mcdonagh. Not yet anyways. Playing with Larson helps a lot too. Literally playing with a rock. But cmon man. Don't level him in the same tier as josi and subban

Look I'll give you subban if you want to base it off of career success so far but in no world is Josi or 70% of that list better. Risto, Hamilton, Jones, etc. Is just wrong. And then putting werenski too goes exactly with what you said that he needs to repeat it in order to make the list. And honestly, being with Larsson drags him down not help. Klefbom is better offensively and defensively than him. And if we are talking IRL, like you mentioned for demers, subban was traded for Weber - an older player with a bad contract. What you're asking for is like asking nsh to trade Ekholm, Ellis, Kamenev, and a 1st for Subban for example. And the whole thing with FLA was about them trying to meet their internal budget and they didn't pick demers because they made a deal for two young forwards otherwise he probably would have been taken. That org has issues with "hockey ppl" and "analytics ppl" which is why there is so much awful stuff happening.

What for Zucker

https://www.hockey-reference.com/awards/voting-2017.html

Scroll down to "Norris votes" and you'll see That a lot of the D that I mentioned "Josi, weber, Hamilton, suter, etc..." all had norris votes where as klefbom wasn't even mentioned. And yes I know Norris votes shouldn't be the be all end all way to determine who is better but it's a pretty good indicator that if a guy has never even received a single vote for a major trophy like the Norris, he probably isn't a #1. (And yes klefbom is better than a couple guys on this list but I'm just proving a point that there's no way he's a #1. The list is also missing injured guys like letang)

If you can show me a justifiable stat that makes him not a #1 I'll listen. If all you have are your opinions and others opinions it's moot to me. I don't care what idiots voted for in the Norris it's all bias anyway.

Not for sale but make an offer if you want

Looking for AHL'ers. I have Jeff Glass, Michael Latta, and Carl Dahlstrom. I'll move one of them for the 6th or 2 of them for a 5th + 2020 7th.

Brendan Ghule for Daniel sprong?

No thanks.

I'm most interested in Stempniak. Would prospects/picks work?

Yes. What were you thinking?