SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Armchair-GM

WHAT is the best deal for Tanev and Hanifin

Created by: Redmile04
Team: 2023-24 Calgary Flames
Initial Creation Date: Feb. 4, 2024
Published: Feb. 4, 2024
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
The team's Selected here have been mentioned in several articles. The selection of players apply to only TANEV or HANIFIN separately.
Trades
1.
CGY
  1. Beecher, John
  2. 2025 1st round pick (BOS)
BOS
2.
CGY
  1. Farinacci, John
  2. Lohrei, Mason
Additional Details:
1st round in 2025 if previous trade is not made.
BOS
    Retained 50% off Hanifin
    3.
    CGY
    1. Korshkov, Yegor [Reserve List]
    2. Lundell, Anton
    3. 2025 2nd round pick (FLA)
    FLA
      Retained 50% off Hanifin
      4.
      CGY
      1. Bourque, Mavrik
      2. 2024 1st round pick (DAL)
      DAL
        50% retained off Hanifin or Tanev 2nd 2024
        5.
        CGY
        1. Casey, Seamus [Reserve List]
        2. Mercer, Dawson
        3. 2024 1st round pick (NJD)
        NJD
        1. Hanifin, Noah
        Additional Details:
        50% retained
        6.
        CGY
        1. Helenius, Samuel
        2. Moverare, Jacob
        3. Turcotte, Alex
        4. 2024 1st round pick (LAK)
        5. 2025 2nd round pick (LAK)
        Additional Details:
        1 or 2 of these selections plus a 1st for Hanifin or a 2nd for Tanev
        LAK
          Retained 50%
          DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
          2024
          Logo of the CGY
          Logo of the VAN
          Logo of the DAL
          Logo of the NJD
          Logo of the LAK
          Logo of the CGY
          Logo of the CGY
          Logo of the CGY
          Logo of the VAN
          Logo of the CHI
          Logo of the CGY
          2025
          Logo of the FLA
          Logo of the BOS
          Logo of the CGY
          Logo of the FLA
          Logo of the LAK
          Logo of the CGY
          Logo of the CGY
          Logo of the CGY
          Logo of the CGY
          2026
          Logo of the CGY
          Logo of the CGY
          Logo of the CGY
          Logo of the VAN
          Logo of the CGY
          Logo of the CGY
          Logo of the CGY
          Logo of the CGY
          ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
          32$83,500,000$83,718,333$0$3,175,000-$218,333
          Left WingCentreRight Wing
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $10,500,000$10,500,000
          LW, RW
          NMC
          UFA - 8
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $7,000,000$7,000,000
          C
          NMC
          UFA - 6
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $5,800,000$5,800,000
          RW, LW
          M-NTC
          UFA - 2
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $5,500,000$5,500,000
          LW, RW
          M-NTC
          UFA - 2
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $5,350,000$5,350,000
          C
          NMC
          UFA - 1
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $4,900,000$4,900,000
          RW, LW
          NTC
          UFA - 4
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $863,333$863,333
          LW
          RFA - 1
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $1,300,000$1,300,000
          C
          UFA - 1
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $3,100,000$3,100,000
          C, LW, RW
          UFA - 2
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$212,500$212K)
          LW, C
          RFA - 2
          Logo of the Boston Bruins
          $925,000$925,000
          C
          RFA - 2
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $855,833$855,833
          RW, C
          RFA - 1
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $2,300,000$2,300,000
          LW, RW, C
          RFA - 1
          Logo of the Boston Bruins
          $910,000$910,000 (Performance Bonus$80,000$80K)
          C
          RFA - 2
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $825,000$825,000
          RW
          UFA - 2
          Logo of the Florida Panthers
          $925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
          C, LW
          RFA - 1
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $775,000$775,000
          RW
          RFA - 1
          Logo of the Dallas Stars
          $894,167$894,167
          C
          RFA - 2
          Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
          $894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$1,550,000$2M)
          C
          RFA - 1
          Logo of the New Jersey Devils
          $894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$400,000$400K)
          RW, C
          RFA - 1
          Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
          $805,833$805,833 (Performance Bonus$82,500$82K)
          C
          RFA - 3
          Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $6,250,000$6,250,000
          LD/RD
          NTC
          UFA - 8
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $4,550,000$4,550,000
          RD
          UFA - 3
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $6,000,000$6,000,000
          G
          NMC
          UFA - 3
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $1,125,000$1,125,000
          RD
          M-NTC
          UFA - 1
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $2,200,000$2,200,000
          G
          UFA - 2
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $2,500,000$2,500,000
          LD/RD
          UFA - 1
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $775,000$775,000
          RD
          RFA - 2
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $925,000$925,000
          LD/RD
          UFA - 1
          Logo of the Boston Bruins
          $925,000$925,000
          LD
          RFA - 2
          Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
          $762,500$762,500
          LD
          UFA - 1
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $762,500$762,500
          LD
          UFA - 1
          ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
          Logo of the Calgary Flames
          $762,500$762,500
          RW, LW
          UFA - 1

          Embed Code

          • To display this team on another website or blog, add this iFrame to the appropriate page
          • Customize the height attribute in the iFrame code below to fit your website appropriately. Minimum recommended: 400px.

          Text-Embed

          Click to Highlight
          Feb. 4 at 8:17 p.m.
          #26
          Bcarlo25
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: May 2018
          Posts: 22,527
          Likes: 7,365
          Quoting: dgibb10
          Maybe slightly, but the problem is the lack of comps out there.

          When’s the last time you’ve seen a top 6 quality producer still on his ELC get traded?

          Like you look at the Dach and Newhook deals. Both those guys were not nearly as productive as Mercer, and had finished their ELCs out.

          Dach got 13th overall+a 3rd
          Newhook got 31st+37th

          Mercer who still has the rest of this year on his ELC left and who is frankly just a much better asset imo, how much does he get.

          And think about all the teams that would be buyers on Mercer.

          He can play every position up and down the lineup. He can kill penalties and play on the PP. He has 0 injury history (Ironman). And every single team can fit him into their salary cap situation.

          Rebuilders can get him and sign him for 8 years
          Contenders can use his RFA years to get him dirt cheap.

          Every single team in the league would want and be able to bid on Mercer if he hit the market

          If mercers leaguewide value is that much lower than NJD fans claim, we should really be knocking down our contract expectations on Mercer by a million or 2. Personally I hope his value is low and we can get him for 8 years at 5 mill AAV


          I think you hit the nail on the head with the problem - devils fans are taking a 56 point season as a sign that this kid is a freaking hall of famer or something. we've seen a lot of players put up a real good year in this league early in their career, and not live up to those expectations again.

          Also, I kind of doubt he routinely shoots north of 16%.
          Feb. 4 at 8:19 p.m.
          #27
          Mr.T 17
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: Feb. 2020
          Posts: 2,846
          Likes: 342
          Quoting: Celtics21
          It does, but his note says a first on top of it, which is where the delusion comes from.

          I’d rather trade Merkulov or Beecher instead of Farinacci and both should be considered to be as highly regarded


          To be honest, I wouldn't trade any of these guys, if there was a trade to get Chychrun to Boston and slap him beside Carlo, I'd say Boston has the best defense pairs in all of the NHL, BUT... I know Chychrun would cost key pieces that could get Boston another cup
          Feb. 4 at 8:22 p.m.
          #28
          I Love J Boqvist
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: Jan. 2023
          Posts: 13,686
          Likes: 3,714
          Quoting: Bcarlo25
          I think you hit the nail on the head with the problem - devils fans are taking a 56 point season as a sign that this kid is a freaking hall of famer or something. we've seen a lot of players put up a real good year in this league early in their career, and not live up to those expectations again.

          Also, I kind of doubt he routinely shoots north of 16%.


          I don’t think he’s destined to be a superstar or a hall of famer. I think he will be a quality top 6er who will be on a bargain contract for the next decade. Because that’s how RFAs work.

          If he isn’t all that what should we offer him on an 8 year deal considering we have 4 years of RFA control?

          And then for a comparison see what Boston fans offer Swayman for an 8 year deal with 2 years of RFA control.

          Right now I see mostly in the 6 mill range on both sides. Despite NJD having much more control.

          Money talks. Either Mercer is worth what we claim and will get the big contract like jersey fans are offering.

          Or Mercer isn’t worth what we claim and so will be cheaper for us to get on that contract.

          Personally I’d prefer the cheaper contract because he isn’t getting traded anyway.

          Our GM wouldn’t even put him on the table in Meier trade talks. So a step up from holtz who was valued 1 for 1, and certainly a step up from the 1st+2nd+Shakir that we paid
          Feb. 4 at 8:29 p.m.
          #29
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: Aug. 2022
          Posts: 8,461
          Likes: 3,504
          Quoting: Bcarlo25
          ooooor, you could look at, lets say, the past 10 years of rental trades. That kind of prospect with a first just isn't something that rental players get. And remarkably, the fans of every single seller just forgets this prior to the deadline, gets disappointed when they get the package that every rational person could have predicted...and then we repeat.
          Meier, Horvat...we can keep going back and back and back, but it's pretty routine. top prospects aren't traded with first round picks for rentals. brace yourself.


          Hanfin won't just be a rental especially not if he gets traded to Boston.
          Feb. 4 at 8:31 p.m.
          #30
          Bcarlo25
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: May 2018
          Posts: 22,527
          Likes: 7,365
          Quoting: dgibb10
          I don’t think he’s destined to be a superstar or a hall of famer. I think he will be a quality top 6er who will be on a bargain contract for the next decade. Because that’s how RFAs work.

          If he isn’t all that what should we offer him on an 8 year deal considering we have 4 years of RFA control?

          And then for a comparison see what Boston fans offer Swayman for an 8 year deal with 2 years of RFA control.

          Right now I see mostly in the 6 mill range on both sides. Despite NJD having much more control.

          Money talks. Either Mercer is worth what we claim and will get the big contract like jersey fans are offering.

          Or Mercer isn’t worth what we claim and so will be cheaper for us to get on that contract.

          Personally I’d prefer the cheaper contract because he isn’t getting traded anyway.

          Our GM wouldn’t even put him on the table in Meier trade talks. So a step up from holtz who was valued 1 for 1, and certainly a step up from the 1st+2nd+Shakir that we paid


          Regarding Mercer - I'm not necessarily disputing what you're saying about his trade value. I'm just saying from the other side, it definitely seems like devils fans are a bit too bullish on him.

          Regarding Swayman - We're into year three of elite play, and getting towards the conversation for best at his position territory. That's a different discussion than a nice 27 goal season, good for like a 10 way tie for 63rd in the league, with a goals per game of 101st in the league. Both are really good, but i understand there being more confidence in swayman.
          Feb. 4 at 8:33 p.m.
          #31
          Bcarlo25
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: May 2018
          Posts: 22,527
          Likes: 7,365
          Quoting: MoxNix
          Hanfin won't just be a rental especially not if he gets traded to Boston.


          ahhhh, but the thing is - he's a rental. this is just a definition at this point. expiring contract = rental trade value. If Calgary wants to change that they could allow a team to agree to terms on an extension prior to a trade, but that is extremely rare. so regardless of whether or not a team winds up extending Hanifin, he's a rental. That's just the way it is, and how the league treats it. again go back to the whole, "look at every other expiring contract trade in the last decade," bit.
          dgibb10 liked this.
          Feb. 4 at 8:37 p.m.
          #32
          I Love J Boqvist
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: Jan. 2023
          Posts: 13,686
          Likes: 3,714
          Quoting: Bcarlo25
          Regarding Mercer - I'm not necessarily disputing what you're saying about his trade value. I'm just saying from the other side, it definitely seems like devils fans are a bit too bullish on him.

          Regarding Swayman - We're into year three of elite play, and getting towards the conversation for best at his position territory. That's a different discussion than a nice 27 goal season, good for like a 10 way tie for 63rd in the league, with a goals per game of 101st in the league. Both are really good, but i understand there being more confidence in swayman.


          I think it’s important to note that mercers production also wasn’t your average “guy on a mediocre power play racking up points” type ****. He did it without PP1 time

          Just 32 guys had more goals 5v5 than him. Just 66 had more points.

          It’s very easy to see where the bullishness comes from. Also I don’t think it’s particularly harmful to be overly bullish in trade value on a guy who simply isn’t gonna get traded. It’s another way of saying “**** off you can’t have him”.

          If NJD fans were out here trying to trade Mercer day in and day out for pieces and still valuing him at a wild level, it would get annoying sure. But we aren’t the ones trying to move mercer
          Feb. 4 at 8:38 p.m.
          #33
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: May 2023
          Posts: 5,154
          Likes: 1,722
          Quoting: MoxNix
          Hanfin won't just be a rental especially not if he gets traded to Boston.


          I think the open question is whether he needs to be a rental to acquire him. I question that.

          Totally understand that players can change their mind and maybe something becomes more important than playing for a very good franchise close to home and your family, but I do believe there is a reason why GM’s believe he’s ending up in Boston.

          I also believe that Lohrei, a 2nd, and a prospect like Merkulov is close to what I’d value him at even if I didn’t have the inherent advantages of signing him.
          Feb. 4 at 8:38 p.m.
          #34
          I Love J Boqvist
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: Jan. 2023
          Posts: 13,686
          Likes: 3,714
          Quoting: Bcarlo25
          ahhhh, but the thing is - he's a rental. this is just a definition at this point. expiring contract = rental trade value. If Calgary wants to change that they could allow a team to agree to terms on an extension prior to a trade, but that is extremely rare. so regardless of whether or not a team winds up extending Hanifin, he's a rental. That's just the way it is, and how the league treats it. again go back to the whole, "look at every other expiring contract trade in the last decade," bit.


          On capfriendly there’s the whole “traded with extension thing” that people use to pretend their rentals aren’t rentals. It doesn’t happen in real life and even when it does, doesn’t significantly change the value
          Bcarlo25 and Celtics21 liked this.
          Feb. 4 at 8:39 p.m.
          #35
          Bcarlo25
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: May 2018
          Posts: 22,527
          Likes: 7,365
          Quoting: dgibb10
          On capfriendly there’s the whole “traded with extension thing” that people use to pretend their rentals aren’t rentals. It doesn’t happen in real life and even when it does, doesn’t significantly change the value


          seriously. it adds like a mid pick in terms of value. just trying to lie to themselves.
          dgibb10 liked this.
          Feb. 4 at 8:42 p.m.
          #36
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: Aug. 2022
          Posts: 8,461
          Likes: 3,504
          Quoting: Bcarlo25
          ahhhh, but the thing is - he's a rental. this is just a definition at this point. expiring contract = rental trade value. If Calgary wants to change that they could allow a team to agree to terms on an extension prior to a trade, but that is extremely rare. so regardless of whether or not a team winds up extending Hanifin, he's a rental. That's just the way it is, and how the league treats it. again go back to the whole, "look at every other expiring contract trade in the last decade," bit.


          Get real, Lohrei is a pretty good prospect but it's not like he's the next Ray Bourque or even the next Noah Hanifin. Same goes for Poitras he's a good prospect but he's not going to be the next Bergeron, Lindholm or Barkov.
          Feb. 4 at 8:43 p.m.
          #37
          I Love J Boqvist
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: Jan. 2023
          Posts: 13,686
          Likes: 3,714
          Quoting: Bcarlo25
          seriously. it adds like a mid pick in terms of value. just trying to lie to themselves.


          It happens with RFAs sometimes where it can enhance value. But teams will let that happen because they control the player and his destination.

          Teams rarely let guys they don’t control past 1 year start negotiations with other teams early.

          I think that’s where the confusion comes from. We see RFAs traded with extensions and people apply that to UFAs
          Feb. 4 at 8:44 p.m.
          #38
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: May 2023
          Posts: 5,154
          Likes: 1,722
          Quoting: dgibb10
          On capfriendly there’s the whole “traded with extension thing” that people use to pretend their rentals aren’t rentals. It doesn’t happen in real life and even when it does, doesn’t significantly change the value


          Unless Calgary signs him to a market contract and trades him afterwards to whatever location they choose with his blessing, he’s a rental.

          Teams may choose to NOT make an offer formal if they don’t know the extension possibilties. My guess is that would happen quickly with Hanifin
          dgibb10 liked this.
          Feb. 4 at 8:47 p.m.
          #39
          I Love J Boqvist
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: Jan. 2023
          Posts: 13,686
          Likes: 3,714
          Quoting: Celtics21
          Unless Calgary signs him to a market contract and trades him afterwards to whatever location they choose with his blessing, he’s a rental.

          Teams may choose to NOT make an offer formal if they don’t know the extension possibilties. My guess is that would happen quickly with Hanifin


          And even if they did sign him to a new contract he’d build in trade protections that limit his destinations to where he wants and tank his trade value anyway
          Feb. 4 at 8:50 p.m.
          #40
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: May 2023
          Posts: 5,154
          Likes: 1,722
          Quoting: MoxNix
          Get real, Lohrei is a good prospect but it's not like he's the next Ray Bourque or even the next Noah Hanifin.


          Nope. Hes a cost controlled defenseman with significant offensive upside that exceeds Hanifan’s offensive skill, but has some defensive development that needs to happen. He has plus size and good (not great mobility). Looks like a top 4 defenseman for the future, which is more than you’ll get after 20 in this draft.

          Last I checked, Carolina acquired Dougie Hamilton and Adam Fox for two good prospects in Lindholm and Hanifin. Hanifin hasn’t stepped up offensively like expected, but he’s a complete defenseman.
          Feb. 4 at 9:13 p.m.
          #41
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: May 2019
          Posts: 42,639
          Likes: 19,322
          Which is a better offer?

          Zadorov for 1st, 3rd
          Toffoli for 1st, Holtz
          Lindholm for …

          You get the idea.

          Hanifin will go for late 1st+3rd
          Tanev around 2nd+3rd

          Devils 1st is probably not on table…Mercer definitely isn’t.
          dgibb10 liked this.
          Feb. 4 at 11:05 p.m.
          #42
          Bcarlo25
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: May 2018
          Posts: 22,527
          Likes: 7,365
          Quoting: MoxNix
          Get real, Lohrei is a pretty good prospect but it's not like he's the next Ray Bourque or even the next Noah Hanifin. Same goes for Poitras he's a good prospect but he's not going to be the next Bergeron, Lindholm or Barkov.


          Poitras is a teenager playing center in the NHL. That's rare.
          Lohrei's combination of size and skating ability is also rare.

          You've either not paid attention to what NHL trade deadlines tend to look like, or for some reason you've lied to yourself about what calgary is going to get. Weirdly I think its the latter, given the whole, "he's not a rental," line, despite being the very definition of a rental.
          Feb. 5 at 10:56 a.m.
          #43
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: Dec. 2022
          Posts: 967
          Likes: 363
          Quoting: Devsfan25
          HAHAHAHAHA. Wait… are you being serious? If the Devils moved Casey for Hanifin, the deal would likely be Casey + 2024 3rd for Hanifin. If you wanted Mercer, YOU would be the one adding. The only guy Mercer might get moved for is Saros and that’s still unlikely. And you’ve added a 1st on top of this. You’re WAY OFF. Devils offer for Hanifin would likely be

          Kevin Bahl, Graeme Clarke, 2024 1st for Hanifin


          I would take Casey and a 3rd so fast it's insane.
          dgibb10 liked this.
          Feb. 5 at 11:32 a.m.
          #44
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: May 2023
          Posts: 5,154
          Likes: 1,722
          The open issue with this whole thread is the Calgary fans are valuing prospects that will likely be better than a late first rounder in this draft as throw ins making up the value of 2nd or 3rd round picks. It’s creating an overall imbalance in trades and they are being called out on it.

          Curious if NJ offered Dawson Mercer for Noah Hanifan and Dustin Wolf, would you view that as a fair deal?

          If a team value Matthew Coranato or Dustin Wolf as a late second, what would your reaction be?

          Quoting: WranglerWranglin
          I would take Casey and a 3rd so fast it's insane.


          It should be a consideration though I will say Casey’s size is a slight concern. That said, I’d value him as a first rounder easy and probably high enough to warrant just a third being added
          dgibb10 liked this.
          Feb. 5 at 12:44 p.m.
          #45
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: May 2023
          Posts: 5,154
          Likes: 1,722
          Quoting: MoxNix
          Get real, Lohrei is a pretty good prospect but it's not like he's the next Ray Bourque or even the next Noah Hanifin. Same goes for Poitras he's a good prospect but he's not going to be the next Bergeron, Lindholm or Barkov.


          If Lohrei was the next Hanifan, I wouldn’t be trading a cost controlled version of him for a pending FA version of him. There is obviously some risk there on both sides. Personal opinion is the risk is bigger for the Bruins than the Flames.

          The value of young players is cost control until UFA. It’s a basic concept. You can tell me you’d rather take the risk of the late first rounder for more cost control, but my assumption is Calgary would like a quicker turnaround with the number of vets you have on the roster.
          dgibb10 liked this.
          Feb. 5 at 1:28 p.m.
          #46
          I Love J Boqvist
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: Jan. 2023
          Posts: 13,686
          Likes: 3,714
          Quoting: Celtics21
          If Lohrei was the next Hanifan, I wouldn’t be trading a cost controlled version of him for a pending FA version of him. There is obviously some risk there on both sides. Personal opinion is the risk is bigger for the Bruins than the Flames.

          The value of young players is cost control until UFA. It’s a basic concept. You can tell me you’d rather take the risk of the late first rounder for more cost control, but my assumption is Calgary would like a quicker turnaround with the number of vets you have on the roster.


          I may be wrong but I imagine Boston will be more likely to keep their NHL ready prospects to help them in the more immediate future?
          Feb. 5 at 2:16 p.m.
          #47
          Avatar of the user
          Joined: May 2023
          Posts: 5,154
          Likes: 1,722
          Edited Feb. 5 at 2:25 p.m.
          Quoting: dgibb10
          I may be wrong but I imagine Boston will be more likely to keep their NHL ready prospects to help them in the more immediate future?


          If they sign Hanifin, it offers some flexibility with Lohrei because he likely will cost out of being a 3rd line D within a few years if he is as good as his talent level looks like.

          Ultimately, the ideal situation is he’s put in as a 3rd line D and maybe takes over the second PP position because of his shot and puck handling with Hanifin coming as a free agent. To eliminate uncertainty, I’d consider him and a 2nd rounder with a B prospect for Hanifin understanding that they may get a better offer depending on what they view of Lohrei.

          It isn’t too big of a step for a GM to look at Lohrei’s offensive skill set coupled with his size and be enamored even if Corey Pronman keeps his scouting report from a few years ago as his primary assessment tool.
          dgibb10 liked this.
           
          Reply
          To create a post please Login or Register
          Question:
          Options:
          Add Option
          Submit Poll