SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Trade Machine Proposals

Still pushing this

Feb. 6 at 12:29 p.m.
#26
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2022
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 1,549
Quoting: Dom1422
I don’t disagree that you guys need a different mold of defenseman but that doesn’t mean you don’t also need a Matheson type as well. Matheson has more power play assists than both of those guys combined and that’s while playing for a bad power play without the talent ( you guys have the talent). He’ll open up shooting lanes you didn’t even know were. I’m not saying he’s Karlsson but he’s a big upgrade.

You might be right though. Maybe they don’t want Matheson. Or maybe Montreal puts another defenseman in like Struble who is/will be the Dman you’re talking about, but then the 1st can’t be included. I have a hard time believing we would include both but you never know.


If you're concerned about moving Struble and a 1st for Buchnevich you are barking up the wrong tree entirely, especially with it being Winnipeg's first. Buchnevich has another season after this season and does not need to be traded. Next trade deadline alone he would probably fetch a return similar to what Horvat got last year. For all we know he may very well get extended by the Blues. He has been an extremely good two-way forward. He's been our 3rd best player this year behind Thomas and Parayko (Excluding goalies as they've both been great). Our entire PP runs through Thomas with the QB being a bumper anyways. There's virtually 0 reason to put a premium on a QB. We need a trigger man on one of the half-walls. Dvorsky and Snuggerud both look to be that coming up. But they are probably a couple of years away from having an immediate impact.
aedoran liked this.
Feb. 6 at 12:43 p.m.
#27
mokumboi
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2019
Posts: 30,120
Likes: 11,613
So very no. And I have no idea in what context you imagine the Blues are desperate, but this is arguably the least pressurized season in franchise history. Everybody understand we are retooling certain parts of the roster and expectations are very low.
aedoran liked this.
Feb. 6 at 1:06 p.m.
#28
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2021
Posts: 1,363
Likes: 295
Quoting: AC14
If you're concerned about moving Struble and a 1st for Buchnevich you are barking up the wrong tree entirely, especially with it being Winnipeg's first. Buchnevich has another season after this season and does not need to be traded. Next trade deadline alone he would probably fetch a return similar to what Horvat got last year. For all we know he may very well get extended by the Blues. He has been an extremely good two-way forward. He's been our 3rd best player this year behind Thomas and Parayko (Excluding goalies as they've both been great). Our entire PP runs through Thomas with the QB being a bumper anyways. There's virtually 0 reason to put a premium on a QB. We need a trigger man on one of the half-walls. Dvorsky and Snuggerud both look to be that coming up. But they are probably a couple of years away from having an immediate impact.


Matheson and Struble, not Struble and a 1st. And if that’s how you guys run your PP I’d say you need a different PP coach.
Feb. 6 at 1:26 p.m.
#29
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2021
Posts: 1,363
Likes: 295
Quoting: AC14
If you're concerned about moving Struble and a 1st for Buchnevich you are barking up the wrong tree entirely, especially with it being Winnipeg's first. Buchnevich has another season after this season and does not need to be traded. Next trade deadline alone he would probably fetch a return similar to what Horvat got last year. For all we know he may very well get extended by the Blues. He has been an extremely good two-way forward. He's been our 3rd best player this year behind Thomas and Parayko (Excluding goalies as they've both been great). Our entire PP runs through Thomas with the QB being a bumper anyways. There's virtually 0 reason to put a premium on a QB. We need a trigger man on one of the half-walls. Dvorsky and Snuggerud both look to be that coming up. But they are probably a couple of years away from having an immediate impact.


Btw Guentzel is a trigger man. Two birds one stone. Get a QB and a Sniper. Maybe he wants to go close to home.
Feb. 6 at 1:30 p.m.
#30
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2022
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 1,549
Quoting: Dom1422
Btw Guentzel is a trigger man. Two birds one stone. Get a QB and a Sniper. Maybe he wants to go close to home.


we aren't in a position to buy. We get outplayed aside from one line nightly and get very little secondary scoring. We also only have one defenseman in which its safe to feel comfortable when the other team has the puck or is forechecking. We need to just ride a few contracts out and let the young guys develop. I know we're currently in the second wild card, but i'd be shocked if that held. It took a miracle 5 game winning streak to get there.
aedoran liked this.
Feb. 6 at 1:46 p.m.
#31
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2021
Posts: 1,363
Likes: 295
Edited Feb. 6 at 2:17 p.m.
Quoting: AC14
we aren't in a position to buy. We get outplayed aside from one line nightly and get very little secondary scoring. We also only have one defenseman in which its safe to feel comfortable when the other team has the puck or is forechecking. We need to just ride a few contracts out and let the young guys develop. I know we're currently in the second wild card, but i'd be shocked if that held. It took a miracle 5 game winning streak to get there.


Problem is I don’t see that happening. You guys already tried to move Krug and trade a 1st to get an upgrade at D. They will try that again, it may not be what you’d like but they’re trying to turn it around very quickly.

Sitting pat and just riding out those contracts is not going to work very well. Draft in the teens for years, maybe get lucky on a guy or two.. You can’t build that way. It’s how you stay mediocre forever and when the results don’t come after those 3-4 years the GM will be fired and the new GM will do an actual rebuild. Then you’re looking at another 5 years at least before you’re contending after the original 3-4 years of retooling.

You have to be aggressive or blow it up. You do not want to be in the middle. Seems like Armstrong is going to pick aggressive. He’s not going to wait around.

Aggressive would be signing Guentzel (and others) and then doing a deal *like* this. If they decide they want to do a 3 year retool we have the assets to make that happen as well. But in 3-4 years where is Parayko? Might as well move him. Buch will be around 32. Might get a couple more good years out of him but probably smarter to trade him.
Feb. 6 at 2:21 p.m.
#32
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2022
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 1,549
Quoting: Dom1422
Problem is I don’t see that happening. You guys already tried to move Krug and trade a 1st to get an upgrade at D. They will try that again, it may not be what you’d like but they’re trying to turn it around very quickly.

Sitting pat and just riding out those contracts is not going to work very well. Draft in the teens for years, maybe get lucky on a guy or two.. You can’t build that way. It’s how you stay mediocre forever and when the results don’t come after those 3-4 years the GM will be fired and the new GM will do an actual rebuild. Then you’re looking at another 5-10 years before you’re contending after the original 3-4 years of retooling.

You have to be aggressive or blow it up. You do not want to be in the middle. Seems like Armstrong is going to pick aggressive. He’s not going to wait around.

Aggressive would be signing Guentzel (and others) and then doing a deal *like* this. If they decide they want to do a 3 year retool we have the assets to make that happen as well. But in 3-4 years where is Parayko? Might as well move him. Buch will be around 32. Might get a couple more good years out of him but probably smarter to trade him.


Do you though? There's a lot of teams that have a foundation in place in which younger players come up and eclipse what was expected. We have a stocked stable of forward prospects who are extremely promising. Just had 7 excel at WJC. That's excluding Bolduc and Dean. We have a really good goalie tandem currently with one being extremely young in Hofer. Neighbors looks to be a full time NHLer at this point.

There's something to be said about not wanting to become Buffalo/Edmonton and relying on hitting the lottery once. Krug can always be bought out at worst case scenario. We have alot of cap spcae for next season, but still next season will most likely be a building season. Armstrong has stated LAK as the model he's trying to go after. He will get aggressive when the time is right. Right now there are way too many holes to be aggressive. He's also stated he doesn't think this team is an acquisition or two away from being a contender. I can almost guarantee the 1st will not be traded this season, and i'd venture to guess Guentzel returns a 1st +++ given the production and lack of top end talent assumed on the market.

Parayko will still be fine in 3-4 years. It's once he turns 35+ i wonder what he will be. It's not ideal, but he has preached trying to get 3rd in the division/remain somewhat competitive to not enter into a full blown rebuild. He has stated if there's a prospect they really like they'd be open to moving a guy with term. But i also expect this deadline to be very quiet for the Blues aside from moving Scandella/Kapanen/Blais if there is a market for them. None of our youth is ready to make the jump currently. There may be a suprise trade of a guy with term, but it's hard to do that at the deadline. The only real question is where do they stand on Buch currently. They could probably maximize their return if they traded him this season, but someone would have to meet that price. Otherwise as a rental you're still looking at the 1st + B prospect + with cap possibly coming back. Similar to Horvat.

it's not a great spot to be. but it's far from needing to bottom out. especially with how Thomas has evolved his game and our goaltending has been fantastic.
aedoran liked this.
Feb. 6 at 2:29 p.m.
#33
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2021
Posts: 1,363
Likes: 295
Edited Feb. 6 at 2:36 p.m.
Quoting: AC14
Do you though? There's a lot of teams that have a foundation in place in which younger players come up and eclipse what was expected. We have a stocked stable of forward prospects who are extremely promising. Just had 7 excel at WJC. That's excluding Bolduc and Dean. We have a really good goalie tandem currently with one being extremely young in Hofer. Neighbors looks to be a full time NHLer at this point.

There's something to be said about not wanting to become Buffalo/Edmonton and relying on hitting the lottery once. Krug can always be bought out at worst case scenario. We have alot of cap spcae for next season, but still next season will most likely be a building season. Armstrong has stated LAK as the model he's trying to go after. He will get aggressive when the time is right. Right now there are way too many holes to be aggressive. He's also stated he doesn't think this team is an acquisition or two away from being a contender. I can almost guarantee the 1st will not be traded this season, and i'd venture to guess Guentzel returns a 1st +++ given the production and lack of top end talent assumed on the market.

Parayko will still be fine in 3-4 years. It's once he turns 35+ i wonder what he will be. It's not ideal, but he has preached trying to get 3rd in the division/remain somewhat competitive to not enter into a full blown rebuild. He has stated if there's a prospect they really like they'd be open to moving a guy with term. But i also expect this deadline to be very quiet for the Blues aside from moving Scandella/Kapanen/Blais if there is a market for them. None of our youth is ready to make the jump currently. There may be a suprise trade of a guy with term, but it's hard to do that at the deadline. The only real question is where do they stand on Buch currently. They could probably maximize their return if they traded him this season, but someone would have to meet that price. Otherwise as a rental you're still looking at the 1st + B prospect + with cap possibly coming back. Similar to Horvat.

it's not a great spot to be. but it's far from needing to bottom out. especially with how Thomas has evolved his game and our goaltending has been fantastic.


In 3-4 years Parayko will be what, 34? So that leaves 1 to 2 years left and that’s being generous. You should trade him now then, why keep him if the plan isn’t to win? Same for Buch he’ll be 32 with 1-2 good years left if you’re lucky. It doesn’t add up.

Btw I don’t see this being the route anyway. I think you want it to be, because it sounds better than being aggressive, but he’s already shown he’s trying to be aggressive the deal just fell through.
Feb. 6 at 2:37 p.m.
#34
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2022
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 1,549
Quoting: Dom1422
In 3-4 years Parayko will be what, 34? So that leaves 1 to 2 years left and that’s being generous. You should trade him now then, why keep him if the plan isn’t to win? Same for Buch he’ll be 32 with 2 good years left, 3 if you’re lucky. It doesn’t add up.

Btw I don’t see this being the route anyway. I think you want it to be, because it sounds better than being aggressive, but he’s already shown he’s trying to be aggressive the deal just fell through.


There's a large difference in being aggressive with turning a guy like Krug into Sanheim. Krug is a major flaw to our roster. He HAS to be sheltered to a degree not many in the NHL have to be, but on top of that he has to be a top 4 guy for us. Parayko has a 40% offensive zone start percentage. That is extremely low for a top 4 defenseman and it's raised from near 36% when Berube was the head coach. That's primarily due to the Krug-Faulk pair having to have around a 60%.

I'd imagine if the question was if we could trade Krug + a 1st for Guentzel or even Schenn + a 1st it would be a discussion to have. That helps long term and short term, if we can extend him. That also points towards remaining competitive in the near term, but not going all in.

The thing with Krug + the 1st too was we had 3 1st round picks. 2 late 1sts. We don't have that this year and unless we're trading Buch likely wont get another first. I don't think that trade in any way signals towards us buying. Meanwhile i'm pretty sure the countless interviews he's done where he stated we aren't a piece or two away and we're looking at a timeline of 26-27 is alot more telling.

In terms of trading Parayko. What sort of a trade makes sense? He'll still be an extremely solid 2nd pairing guy around the time he's 34-36 most likely. That's still a piece that we need. I'd be willing to be we're aggressively looking at young defensemen with promise as we should. But moving Parayko for a plethora of pieces that have a long-shot to be NHL players and a late 1st doesn't really help us anymore than having a veteran on defense as we start to turn the corner that can handle heavy defensive minutes.
aedoran liked this.
Feb. 6 at 2:53 p.m.
#35
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2021
Posts: 1,363
Likes: 295
Quoting: AC14
There's a large difference in being aggressive with turning a guy like Krug into Sanheim. Krug is a major flaw to our roster. He HAS to be sheltered to a degree not many in the NHL have to be, but on top of that he has to be a top 4 guy for us. Parayko has a 40% offensive zone start percentage. That is extremely low for a top 4 defenseman and it's raised from near 36% when Berube was the head coach. That's primarily due to the Krug-Faulk pair having to have around a 60%.

I'd imagine if the question was if we could trade Krug + a 1st for Guentzel or even Schenn + a 1st it would be a discussion to have. That helps long term and short term, if we can extend him. That also points towards remaining competitive in the near term, but not going all in.

The thing with Krug + the 1st too was we had 3 1st round picks. 2 late 1sts. We don't have that this year and unless we're trading Buch likely wont get another first. I don't think that trade in any way signals towards us buying. Meanwhile i'm pretty sure the countless interviews he's done where he stated we aren't a piece or two away and we're looking at a timeline of 26-27 is alot more telling.

In terms of trading Parayko. What sort of a trade makes sense? He'll still be an extremely solid 2nd pairing guy around the time he's 34-36 most likely. That's still a piece that we need. I'd be willing to be we're aggressively looking at young defensemen with promise as we should. But moving Parayko for a plethora of pieces that have a long-shot to be NHL players and a late 1st doesn't really help us anymore than having a veteran on defense as we start to turn the corner that can handle heavy defensive minutes.


You would get a kings ransom for Parayko. I’m not saying you should trade him, I’m saying you should trade him if the plan is to be competitive in 4 years. 2026 is one full season away. They’re going to have to be aggressive to meet that deadline. That leads me to believe they’re going to be aggressive.
Feb. 6 at 2:57 p.m.
#36
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2022
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 1,549
Quoting: Dom1422
You would get a kings ransom for Parayko. I’m not saying you should trade him, I’m saying you should trade him if the plan is to be competitive in 4 years. 2026 is one full season away. They’re going to have to be aggressive to meet that deadline. That leads me to believe they’re going to be aggressive.


What do you consider a kings ransom?
aedoran liked this.
Feb. 6 at 3:00 p.m.
#37
Thread Starter
Avatar of the user
Joined: Dec. 2021
Posts: 1,363
Likes: 295
Edited Feb. 6 at 3:05 p.m.
Quoting: AC14
What do you consider a kings ransom?


Risto got Buffalo 14th overall. Parayko is actually good so you’re looking at double that (value wise). It would be a huge return. Bigger than a Buch return.
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Submit Poll