so i was on bleacher report today and I read an article about Phil kessel being moved, after tocceht was hired in Arizona. So my question to all you guys is what would be fair return for kessel at this point.

Im gonna say no. They have cap space so Pens really don't need to trade anyone.

Kessel is an interesting case. Over the last three years he's top 25 in scoring in the NHL, signed at a cap hit of $6.8 million for 5 more years and about to hit 30yr old. He's a very good offensive player, but until he went to PIT he was never able to lead a team in the playoffs (only made it 3 times and only past the 1st round once). It odd, but I look at Kessel and feel like he's a great player, but he's a complementary player. He's not a guy I'm betting on to lead my team and really I'm bringing him in to boost what I have to maybe add some depth scoring.

I'd say a 1st + young NHL ready player (maybe has the talent but is struggling) + teams top 5 prospect + mid-prospect or pick

A package using Boston that I'd consider....1st + 3rd + Vatrano + Spooner. Maybe swap out Spooner for a prospect like DeBrusk

He's probably still worth a package similar to what PIT paid. The cups don't add to his value IMO, but again I think that's because when you play on a team with two of the world best and even without Kessel the Pens are a threat every year to win the cup.

Unfortunately we disagree in one thing. There is something (in GMs minds, not my own) that cups show he is a proven winner. It's like what The blue jackets paid for Saad originally. I think they fell in love with playoff saad and the shine of his two rings. I do think the package you put together was fair value.

I really don't see why he would get moved. He's too valuable to the Penguins and that's where he should be. He was struggling in Toronto but Pittsburgh is the right place for him. If there's a player who needed a new team and got on the right team after that, why move him?

He put up some of his best numbers in Toronto...

Huge difference though, Saad was was 22yr old and a 50+ point player with a two-way game and by many was considered key in those SC wins. If CHI wasn't so tight to the cap he wouldn't have been traded and funny enough look what they did this off-season....traded a one dimensional player in Panarin to reacquire Saad. Also kind of interesting that after being trade, Toews saw his production drop by 15% and many attribute that to him not having Saad on his wing (another reason he was brought back).

The point being Saad was young and considered a leader, a guy was built for playoff hockey and could help a team get the ultimate prize. You can't say the same for Kessel. Ya he has two rings, but how much was Kessel and how much was him going to what was already considered a Cup favorite in PITT? Does PIT struggle without Kessel? probably not. Hell the year after Toronto traded Kessel they only won one less game then when he was there. Kessel was the man in TOR for 6 years and they managed to make the playoffs 1 time. When the "leader" of the team manages to only get his team to the playoffs 1 time in 6 years, but then goes to a stacked team and wins two cups it doesn't add "he's a proven winner" title.

Like I said, Kessel is a great player, but he's not a guy that will make or break your cup run IMO. I'm not breaking the bank to acquire him, especially not at nearly 30yr old and just shy of $7 million a year.

but not as much at the end in Toronto.

Because his last season there was the McDavid tank year. Toronto was terrible that season. You can't put up good numbers if you're surrounded by a terrible team.