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(COL/BUF) - Byram for Mittelstadt

Who won the trade?
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Mar. 7 at 12:07 p.m.
#76
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Man, this one surprised me. Not what I was expecting at all. I think this trade didn't need to happen. Mittlestadt doesn't seem like the player COL should have been after (Im assuming he's gonna want to get paid on his next contract here) and Buffalo probably didn't need to go get another young dman whose got some risk with injuries.

Listen, both teams got good players but I feel like they both could have waited. This was NOT a TDL type move. This should have been a draft move if anything.
Mar. 7 at 3:02 p.m.
#77
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Fair deal. It's hard to say who the winner is now but as of now it seems fair.
Mar. 7 at 8:18 p.m.
#78
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Sabres have acquired 3 players from 2021 WJC Team Canada, making 5 total
Mar. 8 at 3:54 a.m.
#79
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Quoting: Andy_Dick
It's a thing and that is why people value it. Saying people put too much value in scoring goals is the same energy. It matters. A LOT.

This should be common sense here but sadly many have never touched a puck or dont understand what they are watching


It matters for some players and for others it doesn't. Not everyone is the same. Dahlin played on the right side in Sweden, which led to him being the consensus #1 pick in the draft. He played on the right side all last season and was a Norris candidate all year, until he got injured late in the season. Dahlin himself said he prefers playing on the right side. He can see the ice better there.
Mar. 8 at 8:57 a.m.
#80
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Quoting: F50marco
Man, this one surprised me. Not what I was expecting at all. I think this trade didn't need to happen. Mittlestadt doesn't seem like the player COL should have been after (Im assuming he's gonna want to get paid on his next contract here) and Buffalo probably didn't need to go get another young dman whose got some risk with injuries.

Listen, both teams got good players but I feel like they both could have waited. This was NOT a TDL type move. This should have been a draft move if anything.


The Avs are in cup contention this year and desperately needed a capable 2C and they would prefer that position to be an asset they had multiple years of control over. Anyone else available that we were interested in would have been too high of a cap hit this year, a 1-year rental, or cost too much to acquire; or didn't need a young LD prospect (Anaheim with Henrique possibly felt they had an abundance for example).

Morgan Frost might have been an option comparable to Casey but he is higher risk, not as good defensively, and probably has the same or lower ceiling. And we don't know what Philly was asking for in return; if they wanted Byram straight up then I'd rather have Mittelstadt.
Jack Roslovic had a higher cap hit, no term, and performed worse than Mittelstadt and has not proven to be a top 6 center in the league on a consistent basis. Laughton is in the same boat.
There wasn't much else in the market that came close to being a 2C candidate.

I disagree about Mittelstadt and his fit with the team. We have plenty of speed and defensively responsible wingers that can score and far too few center icemen that can produce secondary scoring opportunities after the MacKinnon line. Casey brings a slightly different game and is a "change-up" type of center.

Bo was a "luxury" for us with Toews signed long term; Girard playing better and signed long-term and Bo not really adapting to the right side he wasn't going to supplant Josh Manson.

Our next 2C option was either 2 years away (Cal Ritchie) at best or someone we would have to acquire in the off-season, wasting great seasons from MacKinnon and Makar; a cheap and effective Drouin; not having Landeskog's cap hit due to LTIR (which complicates next season if he is healthy). We are all in for this season.

They will look to extend Mittelstadt in the $4.5-5.5 range to term. Walker and Drouin are questionable depending upon Landeskog being back or not, but those are our "rentals" along with Trenin and possibly Duhaime.
Mar. 10 at 10:00 a.m.
#81
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Early returns for Buffalo look really good. 2 games played, 25 minutes TOI average, powerplay usage

Bo Byram is playing top pair with Rasmus Dahlin and he is injecting lots of energy and offensive spark from the back-end. Coming from the Avs system has fluorished with Sabres.

If Sabres stick with that assignment their depth chart for next year looks like:
Byram - Dahlin
Power - Samuelsson
Bryson - Clifton
R. Johnson
Jokiharju is RFA and has had an up-and-down tenure; with a healthy Samuelsson not sure where he fits as he is an offensive guy and they now have plenty of that in their top 4.

Mittelstadt has played 1 game with Avs and had about 14 minutes, with PP2 usage; being deployed with Drouin and Nichushkin. Bednar did mix up wingers throughout the game, which is normal and Lehkonen will switch out with Drouin.

His incorporation into the Avs offense will be a slower progress as he is coming into a fast-pace, highly active North-South heavy forechecking style of play.

Casey made some really smart plays and was part of a couple high-danger plays.

Fully expect that both teams will love their new player now and long-term
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Mar. 14 at 4:19 a.m.
#82
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Quoting: Andy_Dick
It's a thing and that is why people value it. Saying people put too much value in scoring goals is the same energy. It matters. A LOT.

This should be common sense here but sadly many have never touched a puck or dont understand what they are watching


Clearly we're still working with a small sample size, but after 46 5v5 mins together:

Byram-Dahlin 5GF 1 GA

I'd say Dahlin is doing just fine playing on the right...
Mar. 14 at 4:58 a.m.
#83
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Quoting: worldwidesensei
Clearly we're still working with a small sample size, but after 46 5v5 mins together:

Byram-Dahlin 5GF 1 GA

I'd say Dahlin is doing just fine playing on the right...


There's nothing stopping a defender from being effective on his off side, but it does have key effects on how that defenseman can play.
The movement of the puck around the boards on the forehand, is significantly stronger, faster, and more accurate than on the backhand.
When defending, you have better reach to force the puck to the outside instead of extending across your body.
When making a pass up ice it gives you more options as you are open toward the middle of the ice as well as having the boards.
Those are just a few examples of why defenders of certain handedness are preferred.
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Mar. 14 at 5:33 a.m.
#84
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Quoting: ricochetii
There's nothing stopping a defender from being effective on his off side, but it does have key effects on how that defenseman can play.
The movement of the puck around the boards on the forehand, is significantly stronger, faster, and more accurate than on the backhand.
When defending, you have better reach to force the puck to the outside instead of extending across your body.
When making a pass up ice it gives you more options as you are open toward the middle of the ice as well as having the boards.
Those are just a few examples of why defenders of certain handedness are preferred.


And you also seem to be completely missing the point.

Dahlin was literally preferred over ever other player in his draft class. He was the consensus #1 overall pick...He got there by playing on the right side.

Last year, he finished 8th in the league in Norris votes. There were 4 RHD who finished ahead of him in voting. So, sure maybe you prefer 4 RHDs over Dahlin...Either way, the list of players you would prefer over Dahlin is really, really short.

And, once again, Dahlin himself has said he prefers playing on the right. I love people on some hockey board telling literally one of the best defenseman in the game where he should be playing.
Mar. 14 at 3:17 p.m.
#85
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Quoting: worldwidesensei
And you also seem to be completely missing the point.

Dahlin was literally preferred over ever other player in his draft class. He was the consensus #1 overall pick...He got there by playing on the right side.

Last year, he finished 8th in the league in Norris votes. There were 4 RHD who finished ahead of him in voting. So, sure maybe you prefer 4 RHDs over Dahlin...Either way, the list of players you would prefer over Dahlin is really, really short.

And, once again, Dahlin himself has said he prefers playing on the right. I love people on some hockey board telling literally one of the best defenseman in the game where he should be playing.


I wasn't speaking about Dahlin specifically, I was responding to why handedness actually does matter in many aspects.
Dahlin is good enough to play on his off side, but there are trade-offs to doing so.

Generally speaking, it's a benefit offensively to have your blade opened towards the middle of the ice, but potentially detrimental in the majority of other situations.
You're able to direct more pucks on net and make more cross ice passes, but it does hamper your ability to control the puck along the boards.
You don't have the same control handling pucks on the backhand because of the curve of the blade and you have to cross arms or turn your back in order to play those pucks.

The player's skill or comfort level don't change the physics. They will be forced into disadvantageous situations that would not be an issue for a player of proper handedness.
Being able to manage those situations doesn't negate the fact that a defender on his "correct" side would not be entering those situations at a disadvantage.
Mar. 14 at 5:49 p.m.
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Quoting: ricochetii
I wasn't speaking about Dahlin specifically, I was responding to why handedness actually does matter in many aspects.
/quote]


And that's why I said you're missing the point.

This whole thread is about the Buffalo Sabres and their apparent overwhelming amount of LHDs. Only one is playing on his off-hand: Dahlin.

Byram (LHD)- Dahlin (LHD)
Power (LHD)- Jokiharju (RHD)
Bryson (LHD)- Clifton (RHD)
Mar. 14 at 6:20 p.m.
#87
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Quoting: worldwidesensei
It matters for some players and for others it doesn't. Not everyone is the same. Dahlin played on the right side in Sweden, which led to him being the consensus #1 pick in the draft. He played on the right side all last season and was a Norris candidate all year, until he got injured late in the season. Dahlin himself said he prefers playing on the right side. He can see the ice better there.


Quoting: worldwidesensei
And that's why I said you're missing the point.

This whole thread is about the Buffalo Sabres and their apparent overwhelming amount of LHDs. Only one is playing on his off-hand: Dahlin.

Byram (LHD)- Dahlin (LHD)
Power (LHD)- Jokiharju (RHD)
Bryson (LHD)- Clifton (RHD)


You said it matters for some players and for others it doesn't.
That's not true, it matters for everyone. It fundamentally changes the way you have to play. It affects strategy and teammates as well.
You can work around it and some players handle it better than others, I'm only saying it does make a difference, even with Dahlin.
Mar. 14 at 6:51 p.m.
#88
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Quoting: ricochetii
You said it matters for some players and for others it doesn't.
That's not true, it matters for everyone. It fundamentally changes the way you have to play. It affects strategy and teammates as well.
You can work around it and some players handle it better than others, I'm only saying it does make a difference, even with Dahlin.


Okay, well now I feel like we're just playing a semantics game. Perhaps "matters" was the wrong choice of wording, we live in a physical world (I assume), so yes everything matters.

But, Dahlin prefers playing on the right and excels at it. There's pros and cons to everything.

If Dahlin prefers playing on the right, and excels at it, why does it matter if he plays there?

Now this whole conversation is getting out of hand, no pun intended. People here, and you can scroll above, think that because they played hockey in the NCAA, that NHL players cannot play on their off-hand and succeed. It's simply not true. Dahlin isn't the first and he won't be the last. Plenty of teams have won the Cup with more LHDs than RHDs.
Mar. 15 at 6:11 a.m.
#89
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Quoting: LuckyMoneyPuck
I played NCAA level.

Not only is the curve of your stick on the inside which messes up your passing but it offers no advantage.

This is hockey 101 and why very few players play their off side and those who do are not better at it than they are on their natural side.

While people do that in organizations where they don't have the bodies to find people, in more complex levels of hockey they don't have that issue.



1. There are more people who are right-handed than left-handed, so naturally there are more LHD defensemen. That's just simple genetics.
2. Plenty of organizations have won the Cup with more LHD than RHD.
3. There are plenty of advantages to playing on your off-hand. Here, straight from Dahlin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGaFWCMR7pY

So, no, not everything you said is true. Not even close. Some players prefer playing on their off-hand.

I mean, unless because of your NCAA background, your opinion (not fact) is more substantial than a #1 overall pick and Norris-vote getter...
Mar. 15 at 9:19 a.m.
#90
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Quoting: worldwidesensei
1. There are more people who are right-handed than left-handed, so naturally there are more LHD defensemen. That's just simple genetics.
2. Plenty of organizations have won the Cup with more LHD than RHD.
3. There are plenty of advantages to playing on your off-hand. Here, straight from Dahlin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGaFWCMR7pY

So, no, not everything you said is true. Not even close. Some players prefer playing on their off-hand.

I mean, unless because of your NCAA background, your opinion (not fact) is more substantial than a #1 overall pick and Norris-vote getter...


you lost me at point number 1 where if you had ever picked up a hockey stick you would know your "handed" has nothing to do with your hockey "handed".
So it doesn't matter how many people are born "left" or "right" handed. It has everything to do with how you feel holding a stick. Which is what this conversation is about.
That is really all there is to be said about your comment above.
You are over here talking but have never picked up a stick in your life and it shows.
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Mar. 15 at 10:25 a.m.
#91
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Quoting: LuckyMoneyPuck
you lost me at point number 1 where if you had ever picked up a hockey stick you would know your "handed" has nothing to do with your hockey "handed".
So it doesn't matter how many people are born "left" or "right" handed. It has everything to do with how you feel holding a stick. Which is what this conversation is about.
That is really all there is to be said about your comment above.
You are over here talking but have never picked up a stick in your life and it shows.


Yes it does, you usually put your dominant hand (aka writing hand) at the top of your stick and your non dominant hand at the bottom of the stick. Now like everything there can be exceptions but generally speaking, right handed people shoot left and left handed people shoot right
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Mar. 15 at 9:31 p.m.
#92
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Yes it does, you usually put your dominant hand (aka writing hand) at the top of your stick and your non dominant hand at the bottom of the stick. Now like everything there can be exceptions but generally speaking, right handed people shoot left and left handed people shoot right


people grab a stick like they grab a show shovel.
And it doesn't matter if you are right or left handed in how you grab it.
Some people feel they can use the stick better with their dominate hand on the bottom, others on the top.
Why you think your "handed" has anything to do with your stick hand tells me you never played.
I know plenty of people who held a stick "backwards" as you would have it.
Only 10% of the planet is left handed. The people holding left in the NHL are not from such a small group but the rights are from the 90% group. There would be a huge disparity in talent if that was true.
They are right handed people holding the stick left, and left handed people who hold the stick right.
It's about comfort and what "feels" natural to you. Has absolutely F all to do with what your handed is.

I don't know why you would even argue this. Anyone who ever played even pewee hockey knows this.
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Mar. 15 at 9:50 p.m.
#93
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Yes it does, you usually put your dominant hand (aka writing hand) at the top of your stick and your non dominant hand at the bottom of the stick. Now like everything there can be exceptions but generally speaking, right handed people shoot left and left handed people shoot right


That is not true in America where most kids play other sports first and develop a swing from the dominant side with their dominant hand being the "power" and the non-dominant hand being the "direction". Look at USA RH defenders talent level compared to Canada. This topic has been covered in detail by prominent hockey people several times over.
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Mar. 15 at 10:50 p.m.
#94
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Quoting: LuckyMoneyPuck
you lost me at point number 1 where if you had ever picked up a hockey stick you would know your "handed" has nothing to do with your hockey "handed".
So it doesn't matter how many people are born "left" or "right" handed. It has everything to do with how you feel holding a stick. Which is what this conversation is about.
That is really all there is to be said about your comment above.
You are over here talking but have never picked up a stick in your life and it shows.


Umm, grew up in Buffalo. I have played plenty of hockey in my life, so please don't tell me about my own life.

I never said ALL right-handed people play on the left, but a vast number of people do.

Which now goes to prove my point. Not ALL people are the same. SOME people can play on their off-hand and feel more comfortable in doing so. Not everyone is the same.
Mar. 16 at 2:16 a.m.
#95
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Edited Mar. 16 at 2:22 a.m.
Quoting: HockeyScotty
That is not true in America where most kids play other sports first and develop a swing from the dominant side with their dominant hand being the "power" and the non-dominant hand being the "direction". Look at USA RH defenders talent level compared to Canada. This topic has been covered in detail by prominent hockey people several times over.


It is interesting the disparities around the world.

I'm ambidextrous. I write right-handed. Play pool left-handed. Play guitar left-handed. Played soccer on the Left-wing, left-mid, left D, since I was stronger than most there. And play hockey, yes, I play hockey usually with a right-handed stick. But I have no problem switch to a left-handed stick. And I'm fine playing on either side, and on my off-hand.

And I never expect someone here to take my word for anything here....

Which is why I pointed to one of the best D-men in the world.

However, some people just wanna shove their fingers in their ears and not listen....
Mar. 16 at 2:45 a.m.
#96
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Edited Mar. 16 at 2:54 a.m.
Quoting: LuckyMoneyPuck
people grab a stick like they grab a show shovel.
And it doesn't matter if you are right or left handed in how you grab it.
Some people feel they can use the stick better with their dominate hand on the bottom, others on the top.
Why you think your "handed" has anything to do with your stick hand tells me you never played.
I know plenty of people who held a stick "backwards" as you would have it.
Only 10% of the planet is left handed. The people holding left in the NHL are not from such a small group but the rights are from the 90% group. There would be a huge disparity in talent if that was true.
They are right handed people holding the stick left, and left handed people who hold the stick right.
It's about comfort and what "feels" natural to you. Has absolutely F all to do with what your handed is.

I don't know why you would even argue this. Anyone who ever played even pewee hockey knows this.


You must have been a real pleasure to play with .

Since you're guessing my life, let's see....

I'm guessing you told many teammates, "THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO PLAY THE GAME, I'M RIGHT, YOU'RE WRONG. THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFITS TO THE WAY YOU PLAY"

Must have been a treat to have as a teammate. For someone who played team sports at the collegiate level, you didn't learn much both on the ice or off of it on how to be a team player...and other basic social skills. Like...accepting other ways, and understanding that there is more than one way to skin a cat. And, never assume things.

But, here we are.
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Mar. 16 at 11:00 a.m.
#97
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Quoting: worldwidesensei
Umm, grew up in Buffalo. I have played plenty of hockey in my life, so please don't tell me about my own life.

I never said ALL right-handed people play on the left, but a vast number of people do.

Which now goes to prove my point. Not ALL people are the same. SOME people can play on their off-hand and feel more comfortable in doing so. Not everyone is the same.


Stop trying to associate your handedness with your stick grip.
They are not the same and have nothing to do with what you are talking about.
FFS that is sign one you never picked up a stick.
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Mar. 16 at 11:50 a.m.
#98
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Quoting: worldwidesensei
It is interesting the disparities around the world.


And the old Russian approach was to use "sticks in the middle" thereby flipping everyone to their offhand side.

Everything can work in a vaccuum when there is a an opportunity to exploit advantages/disadvantages of other teams' systems. Then the competition adapt/adjusts and the advantage is lost until the next one.

There are no absolutes; at least beyond temporary advantages.

Rules of thumb are more for the general mix, not to be applied to the elite performers.

Canadian players do seem to be playing pre-dominantly as lefties (dominant right hand on the knob end of stick) and therefore it is clear that up until the higher level tiers of hockey it doesn't matter so much about handedness because a players talent compared to his competition is the bigger factor. At some point the talent gap narrows and those small advantages take on heightened importance.

The majority of American players, to this point, have not had that type of coaching from such an early age (outside of the elite academies and hockey families); or the American coaches prefer the L/R balance that they try to achieve it at an early age.

Europeans seem to be more lefty dominant but tend to prefer to come from their offhand a lot; so this must be skills that are focused on in their development; perhaps a legacy of the Russian style from the 60s thru 90s; which had such an impact on world hockey especially in places like Finland and Czechia/Slovakia.

Dahlin, Heiskanen, Shea Theodore, etc CAN play exceptionally high level on their off hand. That doesn't apply to every defenseman; and it also doesn't apply to every defensive system/assignment. Which is why the "non-injury" mix of offhanded defenseman in the NHL is 10-11 players out of 192 in the starting 6 after the trade deadline; which is 5%. Even Dallas has been trying to find an elite enough RHD to pair with Heiskanen because they feel that he is better on the left side. But 90% Heiskanen is still better than 100% of anyone else they have on the right side so he remains; and now that Harley has arrived as their best #2 (top pair) D it will probably be that way for a while; just like Dahlin in Buffalo with Byram's arrival. Bo proved that he was not that great on HIS right side; which brings us full-circle to the original point in this thread. Buffalo did NOT put him on his offhand and they have Dahlin who is a rare 5%er that prefers it; and they have Samuelsson who seems adequate at it too for their 2nd pair with Owen Power so perhaps they are going to be a rare team with a fully capable top 4 of lefties; the "unicorn team" for this argument. I'm still reserving judgement on Samuelsson being a top 4 playoff-caliber defenseman on his offhand; versus a really good 3rd pair guy on his forehand.

That still does not mean it is normal in the NHL.

For "shutdown" types it matters much less because they are less likely to be trying to keep the puck in the offensive zone and work across the point; and when they do they need to be on their dominant hand to maximize their reaction times. For elite players like Dahlin, Heiskanen, Theodore their talent can offset that "law of nature/physics" disadvantage. This would apply to guys like Nate Schmidt, Dmitry Kulikov, TJ Brodie, Alex Goligoski, Matthias Samuellson, and sometimes Brayden McNabb (since the addition of Hanifin). Guys like Travis Sanheim are kind of a mixed bag so far and we'll have to see how it goes; he does have enough puck skills/skating to try it out but he isn't in that "elite" level of company in that regard; one would think Philly will re-align pairs in the future and look for a talent balance on the RH side in their top 4 (Drysdale developing is a big factor in that outlook).

I do think that there is plenty of evidence to support that the majority of average to really good NHL defenseman perform better on their natural handed side. Rather than looking at Dahlin; this point is better applied to Jacob Chychrun/Thomas Chabot; Sam Girard/Bo Byram; Weegar in Florida with Ekblad (did OK there but has been dominant on the RH side in Calgary); and Canuck pairing with Quinn Hughes prior to Hronek (Soucy, Cole, etc).

There are many times during games I've seen that you can tell the play was impacted or not able to setup properly because a player was in the right position but playing the puck on their offhand. Elite players can position themselves accordingly in advance so that it doesn't have as much of a drop off; but the majority of NHL players cannot do it that quickly or think ahead of the game at that speed to anticipate it. The NHL game is just so ridiculously fast paced that even a near-elite level talent can struggle in that regard.
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Mar. 16 at 12:02 p.m.
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Edited Mar. 16 at 12:23 p.m.
Quoting: LuckyMoneyPuck
Stop trying to associate your handedness with your stick grip.
They are not the same and have nothing to do with what you are talking about.
FFS that is sign one you never picked up a stick.


And still not learning...one single thing....I hope your college education is serving you well... but it's fun watching you think you know who I am. LOL.

And as I said....don't take my word for it...Listen to Dahlin. But you just seem ignorant and only you know what you're talking about, which is...let's be honest....hilarious.

It's very simple to just look around the NHL and see more LHD than RHD. Why? Because right-handed people generally, not always, play on the left.

Why are RHD so coveted? You make it sound like I'm from another planet. Again, simple genetics.

But, please do share what team you played for in the NCAA and what side you played on....would be fun to watch...
Mar. 17 at 9:32 p.m.
#100
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Quoting: worldwidesensei
And still not learning...one single thing....I hope your college education is serving you well... but it's fun watching you think you know who I am. LOL.

And as I said....don't take my word for it...Listen to Dahlin. But you just seem ignorant and only you know what you're talking about, which is...let's be honest....hilarious.

It's very simple to just look around the NHL and see more LHD than RHD. Why? Because right-handed people generally, not always, play on the left.

Why are RHD so coveted? You make it sound like I'm from another planet. Again, simple genetics.

But, please do share what team you played for in the NCAA and what side you played on....would be fun to watch...


And you digress into nothing again with the old .... but Dahlin......
But literally 90%+ of teams won't play a guy on their off side. But you know Dahlin.
And I played at bowling green.
IT's not point arguing this with you any further because you refuse to look at basic facts. The analytics alone should tell you enough. If there are so few RHD and playing offside was SOOOOOO beneficial there would be way more people playing off hand and coaches wouldn't mind.
But that's just BS because it's not true.

If you are playing off side. aka the curve of your stick is opposite for your side.... you aren't at an advantage. It's clearly a disadvantage. That's really all there is to it. You want to keep arguing nonsense.
Find a brick wall for that, I'm done listening to it.
Andy_Dick liked this.
 
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