Domi, Ceci, 2018 2nd, and your choice of a recent NCAA grad? (Soucy/Kloos/Lucia/Maletta)

Is that a good starting point?

You don't have the picks or players to get it done, unless you have some good prospects hidden. I can only see what you have at the NHL level and they basically all have contract issues where they become either a UFA or RFA in 1 to 2 years. I'm thinking I want guys with longer term so I can take on some cap dumps in exchange for 1st round picks.

I think Domi and Ceci are great, but they are both expiring assets who will get enormous pay raises in 1 year. I was planning on taking some dumps on to collect some more picks, but then I couldn't sign those guys long term. If I lost them at around 5M I'd get a 1st and 3rd for each of them. That's not enough for a potential franchise scorer. I'd probably want the value of over 4 1st round picks for him, but I do consider Domi to be worth 2 1st's and Ceci to be worth a 1st and a 2nd, but If I lost them as RFA's I'd be screwed over pretty hard. If there was a way I could give those guys an extension right now, I'd consider Marner for Domi + Ceci + better prospect than what you listed.

Hmm. I know McNabb only played 49 games because he broke a collarbone and missed over two months with injury - not because he sucked. Those other guys like Merrill, Sbisa, and Garrison are really bad. Sbisa only led VAN in ice time because he was the only one that played the whole season. McNabb/Schmidt are locks for the top-4. Why would you want Demers then if he is so bad I'm just getting confused lol. I'm willing to work something out, but I'm just not sure exactly what you're looking for. If it's McNabb i could do him, a prospect, and a good pick (1st rd). If it's Demers I'd do him, a prospect, and probably a lower pick. If it's Severson we'd have to add more on each side because I couldn't do a 1 for 1 for a guy who is the #1 on his team, PP QB, and has nobody even gunning for his spot anytime soon. Let me know I guess - thanks!

I think they picked Garrison to lead the team on the top pair. Schmidt gets the other top 4 spot and then I think Sbisa is better than McNabb. I get what you're saying about McNabb getting hurt, but you said he missed games because he didn't suck, but my question is, why did he average 15 minutes of ice time in the games he was healthy if he doesn't suck? In Boston we have crappers like Adam McQuaid and Kevan Miller who kinda suck, but they get over 17 minutes of ice time. He was a 6th defenseman last year behind Muzzin and Forbort and he's not likely to be anymore than that this year, if he makes the top 6, which is still a big question mark for me. Merrill was better than McNabb and so was Sbisa this last year. I think you may be thinking McNabb is someone else, because he's not close to being a lock for the top 4. I would put all the LHD I listed in front of him in terms of chances of getting the most playing time. Unless he gets traded for a RHD, which they kinda need, I think his playing time is absolutely not guaranteed. He's in the ballpark with a lot of guys who either have more experience like Sbisa and Garrison or they have more potential like Merrill or Schmidt or Theodore. I just don't see him being very reliable in terms of an asset, he could land anywhere depending on his training camp performance.

As far as Demers goes, He's alright. Basically a stop gap type player to hold down the fort while younger guys grow. I don't think he's worth 4.5M, so I don't value him that much. I wouldn't give up the potential that is Pulock for just Demers and middling stuff. He's not that type of player to me.

If you really want to make a deal, I suggest you do a search for Ryan Pulock Article Isles and go to a page that talks about the Islanders big plans for Pulock moving forward, how he's a lock to emerge this coming year, how he's a top PP QB option and how he has a 105 MPH shot that was clocked. The team basically traded Hamonic, who's a great defender, to make room for Pulock to move into the top 4 and be the PP QB the team needs. He scored 15 goals as a defenseman, the more I'm reading about him and every article I pull up people are raving about his play, the higher the price is going to go.

Lol dude Sbisa/Merrill are bad but that's just how we view guys I guess it's not big deal. I mean when Doughty is taking up 30 minutes a night and plays primarily with Forbort there isn't much ice to go around in a game haha. Go compare the HERO charts between Sbisa/Merrill/Garrison and McNabb - it's quite comical. If Garrison is on the top pair that signals a straight tank method lol. Anyway, Demers at $4.5M is essentially what #3/4 defenseman make so it's not really that bad of a deal. However, if you're hell bent on needing more value what does does Demers/2018 1st (NYR) need to convince you to move Pulock?

LOL HAMONIC IS A GOOD DEFENSEMAN? Dude come on. You are joking with me right? I know about Pulock I'm a Flyers fan and follow a lot of teams in the Metro and have seen him play in the AHL against the Phantoms (Flyers AHL team) but if reading article is making the price go up on someone then I don't think I'll be able to afford him. I just liked his style of play and that he is a right shot. I know the rave about him, but he isn't worth two 1st and Demers and another RHD prospect.

I don't know, perhaps we could move on to different players. The more I'm reading about Pulock, the more I'm basically "knowing" he's going to have a huge breakout year. I don't think Demers has it in him to improve at all and McNabb is just a nice little 6th Defenseman. I think I'll just keep Pulock and move him in a bigger deal for someone better instead of splitting his value into smaller pieces. Especially if those other pieces have little to no potential to have a breakout season. The deck is stacked against McNabb in Vegas and Demers is what he is, I don't think he's worth 4.5M, but I also don't consider him a negative value. A negative value is like a guy my former GM brought in "Ryan Callahan" Now that guy is pretty bad and I don't expect to field any calls about him unless they are asking me to pay them to take him.

You don't think Hamonic is a good defenseman? I'm not joking the guy is good and he was good enough to get a 1st and 2 2nds from CGY. Lol I can't believe you think Hamonic is bad.

Haha dude I feel your pain. My other GM sold Drai for no where near his value.

In response to your query on Little... I see him as a solid 2C. My problem is that I have three 2Cs on my team. Marner, Juolevi and Samsonov interest me on your team. Let me know if you think you could put together a fit between the two teams.

I would literally take Hamonic all day over Demers. I don't know where you got 2 1st's + Demers + your best RHD prospect, because I never asked for that lol. I just said I'd like to get more than just a solid #4 guy and a late 1st rounder for a guy who's basically being shepherd into a top 4 position next season and literally everyone covering the team is excited about. When everyone gets on the same page it's usually because something big is going to happen. They did they same thing about Ghost 2 seasons ago and you said you were a flyers fan. They had the same type of hype around him and look what he's doing now. I wouldn't trade a future Ghost for Demers and a late 1st, that's not reasonable.

None of those guys would be for Little. I saw him as your 3rd C and thought there could be a deal in there somewhere because I also value him as a #2c. The problem is he hasn't played 60 games the last 2 seasons, so that would factor into his price. Marner Juolevi and Samsonov are top 10 prospects or better league wide. None of these types of guys would be traded for a 1 year rental who's likely to start a bidding war a year from now.

Because CGY has lost their minds this offseason idk! lol. Yeah I do think he's bad. 43 CF%, -5.7 CF%rel, 14 points, has NEVER played more than 72 games in a season, can't play the PP, last on his team in G/60 & A/60, 4th best PK'er, lowest GF% on the team, and the list goes on lol. If you want normal stats he was -21 in his 40 games played. This was all while averaging over 20 minutes. He literally provided 0 value to the Islanders this past season. He's the definition of a "just a body" and I'd take Demers over him in a second. I'd even put McNabb in the top-4 before I'd even give up one 2nd round pick for Hamonic. He is horrendous lol

You'd take Hamonic over Demers!? That's insane! lol. You must really like him because Hamonic is awful. And I misspoke my bad. i said i'd do Demers or McNabb, Mantha, and a 1st. I'd even probably add a 2nd if that could convince you. Mantha is no slouch. He's just a late bloomer like a lot of defensemen. Oilers people are just as excited about him like they are Jones and Bear.

https://oilonwhyte.com/2017/07/05/edmonton-oilers-ryan-mantha-rise/

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/oilers-sign-niagara-icedogs-defenceman-ryan-mantha/c-287266432

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=203339

I dunno, I think Hamonic is good. He passes the eye test pretty well and has been a solid option for years now. He's also 3 years younger and barely entering his prime. You're advanced stats tell a lot of lies my friend. Collin Miller is near the top in a lot of categories and we thought so little of him we protected Kevan Miller, who's basically a #5, over him. Theres more to hockey than advanced analytics, they don't really help you find out all that much IMO and if you use them to tell a story, it's generally exaggerated and off base.

Let me put it this way. If you traded Demers right now, I'm almost positive the return would not be a 1st and 2x 2nds, so who do the real GM's and real scouts and real people in hockey value more? A guy who was a UFA and the highest bid was 4.5M or a guy who was worth a 1st and 2x 2nds to a team who already had 3 great defensemen?

2018 1st for TVR?

Eye tests are subjective. Analytics are not. Also, he should be in his prime now and he's getting worse each year. Additionally, when looking at the advanced stats you have to remove noise by filtering it out which in Hamonic's case still makes him look bad. Plus, from watching him I'm hoping they give him tons of ice when they played the Flyers lol

As I said, I think I'd like to move in a different direction and sell Pulock for a sure fire player. The only player of the caliber I'm looking for that I see on your team as a defenseman would be Klefbom. I'm well aware I would have to add a very attractive piece to Pulock to be in the ballpark of value that Klefbom has to me and probably you as well.

I apologize If I'm being harsh right now, but I'm kinda reading the Minnesota thread and it's pissing me off because they are all acting uncivilized and creating drama lol. I'm trying to trade Marner for smaller pieces and trade Pulock for a bigger piece.

A lot of it depends on the team. Some teams are more analytical and others care about +/- and hits lol. Would Demers fetch that return? Probably not. Should Hamonic netted that return? "Hockey people" say yes and every single analytical/stat person said it was horrendous. Does it make sense for teams to give up 1st round picks like candy at the TDL for a 2 month rental? No. Do teams do it? Yes. Doesn't make it right..

That's not an option. I see him as a #6, so I'd give up OTT 3rd + mediocre prospect at most.

is this to me? haha you aren't coming off harsh - I hope I'm not either. I like having these convos. I'm honestly just discussing this with you so no hard feelings. I know it's off topic about the trade and stuff but it's fun.