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Leafs 2024 2025 Offseason Discussion Part 1: Kill or Be Killed

May 21 at 8:41 p.m.
#226
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Edited May 21 at 10:12 p.m.
Quoting: RipNasty
Emotions and self justification. This is your argument all the time.


Once again with the nonsense of people replying using emotions lul

Guess fantasyland be getting in the way of reality once again

Luckily for us Tree and Shanny and most of leafs nation here and beyond have seen the flaws you seem to want to bypass

One day you will see what the rest have come to realize watching these guys fail year after year till then good luck
May 22 at 12:06 a.m.
#227
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Quoting: aadoyle
Once again with the nonsense of people replying using emotions lul

Guess fantasyland be getting in the way of reality once again

Luckily for us Tree and Shanny and most of leafs nation here and beyond have seen the flaws you seem to want to bypass

One day you will see what the rest have come to realize watching these guys fail year after year till then good luck


You argued Samsonov was absolutely the best option for net in the playoffs. We saw how that turned out. Who cares about Woll's injury, it's abundantly clear he should have been at worst the game 2 starter and that series could have gone much different had the leafs had the luck of health on their side. This is all reasonable assessments. They lost and it's definitely not good.

Lots of maybes change a lot of things. They should have fired Keefe last year. Definitely should have after their garbage start. He's gone now, that was a long over due move.

Once again, and I am certain you aren't reading this, I do favor trading Marner.....if it makes sense. I am not going to get emotional about it. I absolutely despise his god comment, it's the final nail in the coffin for me. But I am not going to let my emotion cloud my judgement.

The argument of cap percentages is dumb. Many teams operate at a very similar cap strategy, Colorado, Dallas (they are going to be in big trouble after next season) Florida. If you look at what teams are paying their top 6 forwards and top 4 defenceman, I'd wager it's not far off for a lot of teams. Too much is made of the leafs core cap percentage, especially since it's 1 more year of 4 of them. JT is still a good player, clearly by watching him at the worlds, when he is signed for 5.5 million for 5 years or something people are going to love him. That's an incredible bargain for what he still is as a hockey player.

These guys are still young and yeah they haven't gotten over the hump, but they still could. Is Berube the guy to do it? Maybe. I hope so, I am not sold on him yet, but I like what he said. Maybe he gets Marner to humble himself and unlocks a new level, or him leaving TO is that humility that changes him. If he does grow up, the skies the limit.

The more this carries on, I hope Berube fixes Marner, because these trade proposals are getting worse daily. We just saw Brodie fall apart at 33/34. Oleksiuk is on the wrong side of 30, and you think this is worth Marner? That's anger and frustration because that is 25 cents on the dollar. They absolutely will do better if Marner is traded. B
May 22 at 12:42 a.m.
#228
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Edited May 22 at 1:13 a.m.
Quoting: RipNasty
You argued Samsonov was absolutely the best option for net in the playoffs. We saw how that turned out. Who cares about Woll's injury, it's abundantly clear he should have been at worst the game 2 starter and that series could have gone much different had the leafs had the luck of health on their side. This is all reasonable assessments. They lost and it's definitely not good.

Lots of maybes change a lot of things. They should have fired Keefe last year. Definitely should have after their garbage start. He's gone now, that was a long over due move.

Once again, and I am certain you aren't reading this, I do favor trading Marner.....if it makes sense. I am not going to get emotional about it. I absolutely despise his god comment, it's the final nail in the coffin for me. But I am not going to let my emotion cloud my judgement.

The argument of cap percentages is dumb. Many teams operate at a very similar cap strategy, Colorado, Dallas (they are going to be in big trouble after next season) Florida. If you look at what teams are paying their top 6 forwards and top 4 defenceman, I'd wager it's not far off for a lot of teams. Too much is made of the leafs core cap percentage, especially since it's 1 more year of 4 of them. JT is still a good player, clearly by watching him at the worlds, when he is signed for 5.5 million for 5 years or something people are going to love him. That's an incredible bargain for what he still is as a hockey player.

These guys are still young and yeah they haven't gotten over the hump, but they still could. Is Berube the guy to do it? Maybe. I hope so, I am not sold on him yet, but I like what he said. Maybe he gets Marner to humble himself and unlocks a new level, or him leaving TO is that humility that changes him. If he does grow up, the skies the limit.

The more this carries on, I hope Berube fixes Marner, because these trade proposals are getting worse daily. We just saw Brodie fall apart at 33/34. Oleksiuk is on the wrong side of 30, and you think this is worth Marner? That's anger and frustration because that is 25 cents on the dollar. They absolutely will do better if Marner is traded. B


Me along with others showed u the stats that series Sammy owed the team 2-3 goals total. Thats nothing lul. He played good enough for them to win game 7 they just fell on their asses only scoring you guessed it 1 goal on Swayman. The real issue end of that series was PP 1/21, inability for our guys to score more than 2 on Swayman, and the stars having lackluster performances. Yet yah kept going on a crusade for it over and over trying to pin the loss on him even though Marner, Matthews, and JT combined for 3 goals that whole series and are combined making over 30m. Yikes

And no the argument for cap percentage is not dumb

If any team had a 10.9m player, limited playoff success and they were underperforming what you think they would do trade em

Toronto spent 59.7M on their forwards. That’s more than 71% of the current salary cap (83.5M)

Teams qualified for the 2nd round
Edmonton 58%
Colorado 58%
Rangers 58%
Carolina 62%
Boston 49%
Florida 59%
Vancouver 53%

They couldn’t score more than 2 goals besides in game 2 vs. Ullmark lul

And dont go blaming Keefe as this team last year vs. TBL with the same players scored more than 2 besides game 5 and 6. Keefe even on the Amazon series told them we need to start scoring the unsexy goals yet the boyz didnt listen and look what happened lost another game 7 again and he's the one to pay the price.

Berube is a start but just changing the coach is not enough to fix this flawed team. It needs to balance out and to do that you need to trade one of these guys and free up space to make other moves or bring in new players who will help get them over the hump. As what we have learned from Marner is when teams get physical he falls apart

Will end it with this as its getting silly, Shanny, Brad, the fans we all see it 3 soon 4 forwards making 10+m is not a formula for success. Its time for change and it seems were gearing for a Marner trade

The new era is upon us its time to embrace it
May 22 at 1:45 a.m.
#229
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Quoting: aadoyle
Me along with others showed u the stats that series Sammy owed the team 2-3 goals total. Thats nothing lul. He played good enough for them to win game 7 they just fell on their asses only scoring you guessed it 1 goal on Swayman. The real issue end of that series was PP 1/21, inability for our guys to score more than 2 on Swayman, and the stars having lackluster performances. Yet yah kept going on a crusade for it over and over trying to pin the loss on him even though Marner, Matthews, and JT combined for 3 goals that whole series and are combined making over 30m. Yikes

And no the argument for cap percentage is not dumb

If any team had a 10.9m player, limited playoff success and they were underperforming what you think they would do trade em

Toronto spent 59.7M on their forwards. That’s more than 71% of the current salary cap (83.5M)

Teams qualified for the 2nd round
Edmonton 58%
Colorado 58%
Rangers 58%
Carolina 62%
Boston 49%
Florida 59%
Vancouver 53%

They couldn’t score more than 2 goals besides in game 2 vs. Ullmark lul

And dont go blaming Keefe as this team last year vs. TBL with the same players scored more than 2 besides game 5 and 6. Keefe even on the Amazon series told them we need to start scoring the unsexy goals yet the boyz didnt listen and look what happened lost another game 7 again and he's the one to pay the price.

Berube is a start but just changing the coach is not enough to fix this flawed team. It needs to balance out and to do that you need to trade one of these guys and free up space to make other moves or bring in new players who will help get them over the hump. As what we have learned from Marner is when teams get physical he falls apart

Will end it with this as its getting silly, Shanny, Brad, the fans we all see it 3 soon 4 forwards making 10+m is not a formula for success. Its time for change and it seems were gearing for a Marner trade

The new era is upon us its time to embrace it


You're set in your ways.
May 22 at 1:47 a.m.
#230
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Edited May 22 at 2:30 a.m.
Quoting: RipNasty
You're set in your ways.


Not in my ways all

Shanny, Brad, reporters, etc have all finally said it this offseason

Enough is enough time for change did yah not watch the press conference?

Berube is a start but more needs to happen
May 22 at 9:10 a.m.
#231
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Quoting: aadoyle
Not in my ways all

Shanny, Brad, reporters, etc have all finally said it this offseason

Enough is enough time for change did yah not watch the press conference?

Berube is a start but more needs to happen


Shanahan is passing the blame. Treliving is just being vague and you see only what you want to see. Nothing else.
May 22 at 10:24 p.m.
#232
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Quoting: Trickster
I see Stammer to Leafs


Quoting: Trickster
I was thinking hometown discount.
He don't need the money, playing for legacy


I feel that Stamkos is going to be Tavares all over again, maybe not the first year of signing a deal but probably the decline starts after it. I'm more worried about the loss of speed than anything. Plus Stamkos isn't great defensively.
May 22 at 10:28 p.m.
#233
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Quoting: oneX
I feel that Stamkos is going to be Tavares all over again, maybe not the first year of signing a deal but probably the decline starts after it. I'm more worried about the loss of speed than anything. Plus Stamkos isn't great defensively.


If Stammer can be Tavares for us, it would be criminal to not sign him.

I'm getting tired of this JT slander. He is still great even at 33
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May 22 at 10:39 p.m.
#234
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What I'm about to say isn't going to be popular around here but whatever.

Matthews and Nylander HAVE TO BETTER next season. What I mean by that is 60 and 70 goal seasons, 100+ point seasons are fun to watch but you know what's more fun to watch? Playoff wins.

I left out Marner and JT because who knows what happens with either or both but the compete level needs to be at a level we have not seen yet.

Every year I watch top players on other teams in the playoffs raising their levels and wonder why our guys can't bring that. It's not good enough to say "but hey this team plays in the toughest division in the league" I got breaking news for anyone thinking that...the division is not changing and the Leafs are not being moved back to the Western Conference.

This coming season is going to be very telling of what the core guys are really made of.
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May 22 at 10:43 p.m.
#235
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Quoting: Random2152
If Stammer can be Tavares for us, it would be criminal to not sign him.

I'm getting tired of this JT slander. He is still great even at 33


I don't think JT is terrible but I've also not blindfolded on his footspeed and overall defensive play through the year. He was better defensively in the playoffs but footspeed was noticeable.

I hate how this team has gotten slower and slower year over year. Not sure Stamkos helps with that.
May 22 at 10:57 p.m.
#236
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Quoting: oneX
I don't think JT is terrible but I've also not blindfolded on his footspeed and overall defensive play through the year. He was better defensively in the playoffs but footspeed was noticeable.

I hate how this team has gotten slower and slower year over year. Not sure Stamkos helps with that.


I agree with the footspeed thing at least, but I feel as though we can have a few slower players so long as we have some faster ones to balance things out
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May 23 at 12:09 a.m.
#237
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Quoting: oneX
What I'm about to say isn't going to be popular around here but whatever.

Matthews and Nylander HAVE TO BETTER next season. What I mean by that is 60 and 70 goal seasons, 100+ point seasons are fun to watch but you know what's more fun to watch? Playoff wins.

I left out Marner and JT because who knows what happens with either or both but the compete level needs to be at a level we have not seen yet.

Every year I watch top players on other teams in the playoffs raising their levels and wonder why our guys can't bring that. It's not good enough to say "but hey this team plays in the toughest division in the league" I got breaking news for anyone thinking that...the division is not changing and the Leafs are not being moved back to the Western Conference.

This coming season is going to be very telling of what the core guys are really made of.


For sure as said before dont care for regular season achievements gimmie a hungry playoff Matthews and Nylander

JT more than 1 PP goal pls lul

Marner good luck in NSH
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May 23 at 12:12 a.m.
#238
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Edited May 23 at 12:49 a.m.
Quoting: oneX
I feel that Stamkos is going to be Tavares all over again, maybe not the first year of signing a deal but probably the decline starts after it. I'm more worried about the loss of speed than anything. Plus Stamkos isn't great defensively.


To me I think TOR should not be eyeing the big flashy toy and spend its money wisely. Target guys who can help all around rather than be what we already have thats not been working

Like I know our PP this playoffs sucked but with Boucher probs being replaced I dont think we need a PP merchent


I say go get Debrusk if we want something intriguing.
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May 23 at 1:23 a.m.
#239
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Quoting: Random2152
I agree with the footspeed thing at least, but I feel as though we can have a few slower players so long as we have some faster ones to balance things out


Man...I don't know. It's not like JT is the only slow player on this roster. Also, because the league is trending younger, the play is just that much quicker. If the coach has to rely on linemates to cover up speed and defensive issues for a slow player, the whole line gets compromised.

Gotta find players who can push the pace.
May 23 at 1:44 a.m.
#240
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Quoting: oneX
Man...I don't know. It's not like JT is the only slow player on this roster. Also, because the league is trending younger, the play is just that much quicker. If the coach has to rely on linemates to cover up speed and defensive issues for a slow player, the whole line gets compromised.

Gotta find players who can push the pace.


The one thing I will say to that is the one thing that counters speed is good defense and physicality. We had the physicality part down defense meh. Like look at FLA thats what we should be replicating. They aint crazy fast but use a forecheck system to have their way with other teams. Look what they did to NYR tonight

The issue with JT is he aint crazy good defensively and he's more of a PP guy. He cant center a 2nd or 3rd line as he cant keep the pace rn. Thats why is he wants more than 1m on his next deal I say move on

There are nice top 6 C out there next summer

Draisaitl, Bennett, etc

As to me going a new direction and building a team thats balances should be the goal. No more top heavy lul. Unless its McDavid
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May 23 at 12:19 p.m.
#241
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Quoting: oneX
I feel that Stamkos is going to be Tavares all over again, maybe not the first year of signing a deal but probably the decline starts after it. I'm more worried about the loss of speed than anything. Plus Stamkos isn't great defensively.


Fair point but I'd still take the chance on Stammer with countering with speed from other guys.
May 23 at 3:02 p.m.
#242
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I think I've finally put together my wishlist for a Marner trade.

Pick, player, and a prospect.

Utah makes a ton of sense, but needs some wiggling to get there.

6th overall, Crouse, McBain, Doan
For
Marner, Kampf, 23rd overall
May 23 at 3:20 p.m.
#243
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Quoting: Random2152
I think I've finally put together my wishlist for a Marner trade.

Pick, player, and a prospect.

Utah makes a ton of sense, but needs some wiggling to get there.

6th overall, Crouse, McBain, Doan
For
Marner, Kampf, 23rd overall


For me try to replicate the Eichel or Tkachuck trade

May have to take a tad less but the NMC and him being a pending UFA does play into it but hey if Brad walked out with

Saros + Fabbro + Wood would be pretty happy

You get a nice prospect, nice young Dman, and you solidify the goaltending

And then with the remaining cap space can go get other guys
May 23 at 4:42 p.m.
#244
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Quoting: Random2152
I think I've finally put together my wishlist for a Marner trade.

Pick, player, and a prospect.

Utah makes a ton of sense, but needs some wiggling to get there.

6th overall, Crouse, McBain, Doan
For
Marner, Kampf, 23rd overall


6th overall is really nice, but the best current impact player coming back being Crouse is tough to swallow for me
May 23 at 4:52 p.m.
#245
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
6th overall is really nice, but the best current impact player coming back being Crouse is tough to swallow for me


That's the trade-off for getting 6.

Chief said he likes north-south players. Crouse is certainly that
May 23 at 4:53 p.m.
#246
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Man if only OTT wasnt a divisional rival as next they are a team looking to make a splash and Marner may be someone that could help

Chycrun, Batherson, Pinto, Greig, etc would all be nice targets


If I was to bite the bullet

Chycrun + Batherson + Greig for Marner + Jarnkrok wouldnt be the worst

Not concerned about the +/- considering its a meh stat and OTT didnt really seem to care for defense lul
May 23 at 5:00 p.m.
#247
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Quoting: Random2152
That's the trade-off for getting 6.

Chief said he likes north-south players. Crouse is certainly that


That's what I'm saying. I'm not sure I love that trade off. Like if we hit, the best piece in the trade won't be at the top of their game and making an big impact for, what, 4-5 years? Not sure I'm content with that for where the team is at.
May 23 at 5:05 p.m.
#248
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
That's what I'm saying. I'm not sure I love that trade off. Like if we hit, the best piece in the trade won't be at the top of their game and making an big impact for, what, 4-5 years? Not sure I'm content with that for where the team is at.


Doan looks good so far
May 23 at 5:24 p.m.
#249
Rip
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Quoting: oneX
What I'm about to say isn't going to be popular around here but whatever.

Matthews and Nylander HAVE TO BETTER next season. What I mean by that is 60 and 70 goal seasons, 100+ point seasons are fun to watch but you know what's more fun to watch? Playoff wins.

I left out Marner and JT because who knows what happens with either or both but the compete level needs to be at a level we have not seen yet.

Every year I watch top players on other teams in the playoffs raising their levels and wonder why our guys can't bring that. It's not good enough to say "but hey this team plays in the toughest division in the league" I got breaking news for anyone thinking that...the division is not changing and the Leafs are not being moved back to the Western Conference.

This coming season is going to be very telling of what the core guys are really made of.


Targetting those two after this year's playoffs is legit silly. Nylander had 3 goals and Matthews led the team in points while both were injured. Come on
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May 23 at 5:25 p.m.
#250
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Quoting: oneX
I don't think JT is terrible but I've also not blindfolded on his footspeed and overall defensive play through the year. He was better defensively in the playoffs but footspeed was noticeable.

I hate how this team has gotten slower and slower year over year. Not sure Stamkos helps with that.


The style they play has a lot to do with how slow they look. East West and slow turn backs is how they were told to play.
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