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Leafs 2024 2025 Offseason Discussion Part 1: Kill or Be Killed

May 23 at 5:44 p.m.
#251
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Quoting: aadoyle
For sure as said before dont care for regular season achievements gimmie a hungry playoff Matthews and Nylander

JT more than 1 PP goal pls lul

Marner good luck in NSH


You are going to be so mad when management doesn't give Marner away and keeps him.
May 23 at 5:50 p.m.
#252
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Quoting: oneX
Man...I don't know. It's not like JT is the only slow player on this roster. Also, because the league is trending younger, the play is just that much quicker. If the coach has to rely on linemates to cover up speed and defensive issues for a slow player, the whole line gets compromised.

Gotta find players who can push the pace.


A north south system will make the team appear faster.
May 23 at 6:08 p.m.
#253
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Edited May 23 at 6:22 p.m.
Quoting: RipNasty
You are going to be so mad when management doesn't give Marner away and keeps him.


If they keep him but let him walk in FA for 2025 to free up cap due to his stuborness im good with that to. By them asking him to waive he should get the message pretty clear they want to move on

And if he walks to FA he will lose the 8th year and thus some money so if they go to him despite Ferris nature a trade will more likely then not occur will take time but for both sides its for the best.



The formula of 3-4 double digit guys has not worked and the last thing we need to give him a raise and double down on this insanity

GOChgLkaMAg90z6?format=jpg&name=900x900

Focus building around Matthews and Nylander and start the era of the dynamic duo with Cowen, Minten, etc being guys who can fill in later.
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May 23 at 6:43 p.m.
#254
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Quoting: Random2152
I think I've finally put together my wishlist for a Marner trade.

Pick, player, and a prospect.

Utah makes a ton of sense, but needs some wiggling to get there.

6th overall, Crouse, McBain, Doan
For
Marner, Kampf, 23rd overall


I can get behind thi.
Whose your target with the pick OR you looking to flip for a quantity of picks?
May 23 at 6:45 p.m.
#255
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Quoting: aadoyle
For me try to replicate the Eichel or Tkachuck trade

May have to take a tad less but the NMC and him being a pending UFA does play into it but hey if Brad walked out with

Saros + Fabbro + Wood would be pretty happy

You get a nice prospect, nice young Dman, and you solidify the goaltending

And then with the remaining cap space can go get other guys


I wa Ted Fabbro but if Liljegren has no future here, why does Fabbro.

Pass, give me a retained Nyquist
May 23 at 7:09 p.m.
#256
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Edited May 23 at 7:20 p.m.
Quoting: Trickster
I wa Ted Fabbro but if Liljegren has no future here, why does Fabbro.

Pass, give me a retained Nyquist


Nyqvist had himself one of those overacheiving seasons and is 34. He would not be the guy I would want coming back as sort of one of the main pieces

Saros is a top 10 goalie in the NHL rn, Fabbro is 25 and a nice defensive Dman, and Woods a top 15 pick in last years draft. Basically kill 3 birds with one stone

For where Fabbro would succeed here vs. Liligren there was a chart explaining it a while ago to where he was one of NSH better defenders putting up some good stats with and without Josi. While the offensive upside is less then defense is better.
May 23 at 7:30 p.m.
#257
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Quoting: aadoyle
If they keep him but let him walk in FA for 2025 to free up cap due to his stuborness im good with that to. By them asking him to waive he should get the message pretty clear they want to move on

And if he walks to FA he will lose the 8th year and thus some money so if they go to him despite Ferris nature a trade will more likely then not occur will take time but for both sides its for the best.



The formula of 3-4 double digit guys has not worked and the last thing we need to give him a raise and double down on this insanity

GOChgLkaMAg90z6?format=jpg&name=900x900

Focus building around Matthews and Nylander and start the era of the dynamic duo with Cowen, Minten, etc being guys who can fill in later.


You must know that in the very near future many teams will have at least 3 guys making over 10 million. Had the pandemic not caused the cap to stay flat for 4 seasons, it would already be the case. But this is arguments with you, nothing exists beyond your opinion and you ignore everything that doesn't fit your rhetoric. It's just silly.
May 23 at 7:31 p.m.
#258
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Quoting: aadoyle
For me try to replicate the Eichel or Tkachuck trade

May have to take a tad less but the NMC and him being a pending UFA does play into it but hey if Brad walked out with

Saros + Fabbro + Wood would be pretty happy

You get a nice prospect, nice young Dman, and you solidify the goaltending

And then with the remaining cap space can go get other guys


I am very surprised you don't want to bring Sammy back
May 23 at 7:44 p.m.
#259
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Quoting: RipNasty
You must know that in the very near future many teams will have at least 3 guys making over 10 million. Had the pandemic not caused the cap to stay flat for 4 seasons, it would already be the case. But this is arguments with you, nothing exists beyond your opinion and you ignore everything that doesn't fit your rhetoric. It's just silly.


Not for a very long time maybe 5-10 years but as of now its not a formula for success

Pandemic or not no team who has seen this much failure would keep things the same and stay the course. Even if cap was at 100m if the Leafs didnt win a round or just a single the same thing would be happening

Since the Matthews era has started Leafs have won 1 round. All these guys have signed big fat extensions, JT came in on a bit fat contract and its caused problems in terms of retaining other good players and creating a balanced team. They have gone through 2 GM'S, 2 Coaches, tonnes of assistants and yet we never eye these big 4 and go hmmm maybe they are the issue.

Every year when playoffs role around all these guys but Willy either dont consistently show up or underperform. Marner these playoffs was a ghost and for a guy making 10.9m thats unacceptable. MacKinnon has done well in the playoffs, Eichel has, heck McDavid and Draisaitl take it to the next lvl while our guys cave under pressure.

In the end management has finally realized this aint working and change is coming and in order for it to be meaningful Marner has to go. A new coach is not enough its time to focus the new Leafs around Matthews and Willy
May 23 at 7:46 p.m.
#260
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Edited May 23 at 9:12 p.m.
Quoting: RipNasty
I am very surprised you don't want to bring Sammy back


While he had a good comeback seems management dont want to commit to term that he wants. Will probs be another success story elsewhere as its the norm amongst former leafs these days

He's still the only guy to have won them a round wish him the best wherever he goes


As for Saros he solves the goalie issue, can play 50 games and TOR wont have to worry for Woll's injury prone health status. Plus if all goes well Saros can help em get their cup
May 23 at 7:57 p.m.
#261
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Quoting: aadoyle
Not for a very long time maybe 5-10 years but as of now its not a formula for success

Pandemic or not no team who has seen this much failure would keep things the same and stay the course. Even if cap was at 100m if the Leafs didnt win a round or just a single the same thing would be happening

Since the Matthews era has started Leafs have won 1 round. All these guys have signed big fat extensions, JT came in on a bit fat contract and its caused problems in terms of retaining other good players and creating a balanced team. They have gone through 2 GM'S, 2 Coaches, tonnes of assistants and yet we never eye these big 4 and go hmmm maybe they are the issue.

Every year when playoffs role around all these guys but Willy either dont consistently show up or underperform. Marner these playoffs was a ghost and for a guy making 10.9m thats unacceptable. MacKinnon has done well in the playoffs, Eichel has, heck McDavid and Draisaitl take it to the next lvl while our guys cave under pressure.

In the end management has finally realized this aint working and change is coming and in order for it to be meaningful Marner has to go. A new coach is not enough its time to focus the new Leafs around Matthews and Willy


All of this is pure nonsense
May 23 at 7:59 p.m.
#262
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Edited May 23 at 8:19 p.m.
Quoting: RipNasty
All of this is pure nonsense


The nonsense is wanting the leafs to keep running it back despite years of failure and defending these 3 guys despite the lackluster results (Willy's the only one who gets a pass for now)

And dont go blaming the coach like a broken record its not just him this team has its flaws and the focal point is paying 3-4 guys over 10m

At this point excusing them and saying we should keep em is the definition of insanity

Lets waste more time and then by the time we finally all realize hey this didnt work Matthews will be going see yah. Last thing we want is to become SJS 2.0

One day you will realize what we have all come to see along with Leafs management till then good luck as this is getting ridiculous to continue lul
May 23 at 9:20 p.m.
#263
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Quoting: Trickster
I can get behind thi.
Whose your target with the pick OR you looking to flip for a quantity of picks?


Target is the guy I've been yelling about for the last year and a half. Sam Dickinson. But I don't know that he will still be there at 6
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May 23 at 9:39 p.m.
#264
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Quoting: RipNasty
Targetting those two after this year's playoffs is legit silly. Nylander had 3 goals and Matthews led the team in points while both were injured. Come on


I wasn't talking specifically about this year's playoffs. I was taking the entire 7-8 years into account. Yes I know Nylander has been consistent with the goals but especially starting next season, just goals are not good enough. Nylander needs to remember there's 3 zones of the rink and not being dialed in on defensive assignments when the puck is in the Leafs end will absolutely be unacceptable.
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May 23 at 9:43 p.m.
#265
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Quoting: oneX
I wasn't talking specifically about this year's playoffs. I was taking the entire 7-8 years into account. Yes I know Nylander has been consistent with the goals but especially starting next season, just goals are not good enough. Nylander needs to remember there's 3 zones of the rink and not being dialed in on defensive assignments when the puck is in the Leafs end will absolutely be unacceptable.


Yep as once you go from 6.9m to 11.5m there will be more expectations on par with the other guys making double digits
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May 23 at 9:45 p.m.
#266
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Quoting: RipNasty
The style they play has a lot to do with how slow they look. East West and slow turn backs is how they were told to play.


We'll see. Just can't blame absolutely everything on the previous coach. That's part of the problem, not taking accountability for some of what goes on out on the ice.

The coach, no matter who he is does not go out there and play. Players still have to take some accountability for that.
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May 23 at 9:48 p.m.
#267
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Quoting: aadoyle
If they keep him but let him walk in FA for 2025 to free up cap due to his stuborness im good with that to. By them asking him to waive he should get the message pretty clear they want to move on

And if he walks to FA he will lose the 8th year and thus some money so if they go to him despite Ferris nature a trade will more likely then not occur will take time but for both sides its for the best.



The formula of 3-4 double digit guys has not worked and the last thing we need to give him a raise and double down on this insanity

GOChgLkaMAg90z6?format=jpg&name=900x900

Focus building around Matthews and Nylander and start the era of the dynamic duo with Cowen, Minten, etc being guys who can fill in later.


At this point, it's not even doubling down on the insanity. It's been what? 7-8 years. Changes needed to happen sooner than this.
May 23 at 9:48 p.m.
#268
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Quoting: oneX
We'll see. Just can't blame absolutely everything on the previous coach. That's part of the problem, not taking accountability for some of what goes on out on the ice.

The coach, no matter who he is does not go out there and play. Players still have to take some accountability for that.


Yep we saw it in the Amazon documentary

Keefe saw the issues yet despite that these guys never adapted

Was Keefe perfect no but just blaming everything on him and thinking Berube is gonna be this messiah who solves everything is lunacy

Will Berube help yes but this team needs to also start making changes to the roster and not just around the core no no we did that enough one of em has to go and based on everything its Marner.

Go get a nice pkg for him then free up space to make other moves that can better balance this team
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May 23 at 9:51 p.m.
#269
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Quoting: oneX
At this point, it's not even doubling down on the insanity. It's been what? 7-8 years. Changes needed to happen sooner than this.


To me the insanity point started last year

They finally won a round against TBL but then got beat in 5 vs. FLA where the big 4 didnt show up till game 4

It highlighted they have a long way to go

Dubas saw it but also decided to go on a power move vs. Shanahan and so got fired. Probs some Pitt tampering involved but whatever.

Fast forward to now. Another first round exit and each of these guys NMC kicked in and so making changes there is gonna be tough but it must be done
May 23 at 9:53 p.m.
#270
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Quoting: aadoyle
Yep as once you go from 6.9m to 11.5m there will be more expectations on par with the other guys making double digits


Yeah, there's no more hiding behind Matthews and Marner anymore. He's making similar $$$ to them and other star players around the league.

As the saying goes "heavy is the head that wears the crown" the responsibility to do more at higher level increases when you make as much $$$ as these guys are.
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May 23 at 10:06 p.m.
#271
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Quoting: aadoyle
Yep we saw it in the Amazon documentary

Keefe saw the issues yet despite that these guys never adapted

Was Keefe perfect no but just blaming everything on him and thinking Berube is gonna be this messiah who solves everything is lunacy

Will Berube help yes but this team needs to also start making changes to the roster and not just around the core no no we did that enough one of em has to go and based on everything its Marner.

Go get a nice pkg for him then free up space to make other moves that can better balance this team


Honestly, it's laughable that we are discussing this because the number 1 thing I'm going to remember of Keefe's tenure as coach is how often this team didn't start on time, both in the regular season and playoffs.

I don't even know how these players aren't dying in shame just thinking of that. It's embarrassing.
May 23 at 10:09 p.m.
#272
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Edited May 24 at 12:57 a.m.
Quoting: oneX
Honestly, it's laughable that we are discussing this because the number 1 thing I'm going to remember of Keefe's tenure as coach is how often this team didn't start on time, both in the regular season and playoffs.

I don't even know how these players aren't dying in shame just thinking of that. It's embarrassing.


For years everyone seemed to like to skim the edges without going to the center

Yes Marner is a 90-100 point wing in the regular season go to playoffs its Kasper especially when things get physical

Matthews hit 69 goals and yes was sick for playoffs but game 1, 3 and 4 hurt more than help his team

Matthews and Nylander also need to be better but they have at least shown more noticable stuff

Then the more they lost in the post season it started to dawn on em it dont work.

We have changed their linemates, coaches, etc when was it ever time to go maybe these guys aint working and more specific when these 4 guys salaries are making it to where we cant build a team

Other teams have not been afraid of change but some of the fans here and management seem to be shaking in their boots. Yes there is risk but there is also potential reward. More cap freedom/a new approach is never a bad thing right?

Like these 3 soon 4 guys making X amount as pushed TOR to lose some players who have become very valuable elsewhere

Zach Hyman man we sure could use one of him rn lul


Management seems to have seen the light and if all goes well Marner will be moved as to where or for what idk but change is in the air and it feels good
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May 23 at 10:26 p.m.
#273
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Quoting: oneX
I wasn't talking specifically about this year's playoffs. I was taking the entire 7-8 years into account. Yes I know Nylander has been consistent with the goals but especially starting next season, just goals are not good enough. Nylander needs to remember there's 3 zones of the rink and not being dialed in on defensive assignments when the puck is in the Leafs end will absolutely be unacceptable.


He's going to have those moments every once and a while but he's only going to get better I think. Matthews as well with a better coach will become a total beast.
May 24 at 11:13 a.m.
#274
Leafs going to Leafs
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
6th overall is really nice, but the best current impact player coming back being Crouse is tough to swallow for me


But you have to remember; it's Crouse, McBain, 6th OA, Down AND 6 mill in cap space

Personnally, I'd rather leave Crouse out of it and get picks that I can flip into a good young player
May 24 at 11:15 a.m.
#275
Leafs going to Leafs
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Quoting: RipNasty
Targetting those two after this year's playoffs is legit silly. Nylander had 3 goals and Matthews led the team in points while both were injured. Come on


TBF, I do think it's fair to target them in the sense that it's not like the user's targeting just one of them
 
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