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Forums/Armchair-GM

Just asking the question

Created by: tupty
Team: 2024-25 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: May 23, 2024
Published: May 23, 2024
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Non-Leafs fan just wondering if there is a deal to be had between Toronto and Colorado. Toronto needs some RD improvements, and Colorado probably needs to shed a contract. Might Manson to Toronto be something that makes sense?
Trades
COL
    With Landeskog coming back and the team presumably wanting to re-sign Middlestadt, Colorado needs to move some salary out. I personally think Manson is one of the most likely candidates, with Colton being another likely candidate.

    I'm just curious, what would the cost be?
    DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
    2024
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the NSH
    Logo of the VAN
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the OTT
    2025
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    2026
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    17$87,700,000$73,669,667$0$0$14,030,333
    Left WingCentreRight Wing
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $925,000$925,000
    LW, RW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $13,250,000$13,250,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $11,500,000$11,500,000
    RW
    NMC
    UFA - 8
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $11,000,000$11,000,000
    C, LW
    NMC
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $10,903,000$10,903,000
    RW
    NMC
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $2,400,000$2,400,000
    C
    M-NTC
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $2,100,000$2,100,000
    RW, C, LW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $800,000$800,000
    C, LW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $1,350,000$1,350,000
    RW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $1,350,000$1,350,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 2
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $7,500,000$7,500,000
    LD
    NMC
    UFA - 6
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $1,100,000$1,100,000
    RD
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $766,667$766,667
    G
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $2,000,000$2,000,000
    LD/RD
    M-NTC
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
    $4,500,000$4,500,000
    RD
    M-NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $1,350,000$1,350,000
    LD
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $875,000$875,000
    LD
    RFA - 1

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    May 23 at 10:35 p.m.
    #1
    LongtimeLeafsufferer
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    The Leafs also have RFA RHD. Liljegren Manson has 4.5m X 2 year contract. There are RHDs available in as UFA, who will be getting about the same money. M NTC Manson's 12 no trade list probably doesn't give the Avs that much leverage to teams who have the cap or willing to trade for him.
    But to answer you question, yes a deal to the Leafs is possible.
    May 23 at 10:46 p.m.
    #2
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    COL isn’t trading a dman and they don’t really need cap space. Landeskog and CMC had a presser today and the gist of it is he is coming back but they don’t know when, and it wouldn’t surprise if they push his come back till the playoffs next year to tell the truth. Better bet would be Nichushkin getting moved.
    May 23 at 10:52 p.m.
    #3
    GabeDamon
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    I think the highest they could get for Manson is a second.
    May 23 at 11:04 p.m.
    #4
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    Quoting: Xqb15a
    COL isn’t trading a dman and they don’t really need cap space. Landeskog and CMC had a presser today and the gist of it is he is coming back but they don’t know when, and it wouldn’t surprise if they push his come back till the playoffs next year to tell the truth. Better bet would be Nichushkin getting moved.


    I think you are being a bit unrealistic about how they deal with Landeskog and Nichushkin. Of course they would love to move the Nichushkin contract and just have Landeskog return when his cap hit doesn't count, but:
    1. I'm not even sure Nichushkin can be traded until he is out of the players assistance program (that is how it works with LTIR, not totally sure about this though). If that is the case, that would mean his cap hit would apply at some point in the season, even if it was just for 1 day so you could trade him. To reiterate, I am not sure if this is the case, but I cannot find the answer when I look around online.
    2. I don't think anyone is eager to trade for his contract. You'll need to attach good assets to move the contract. He also has a full NMC, so he could make it really hard for the team to trade him to a bottom-feeder who is willing to take the risk.
    3. You can't just push back Landeskog's return until the playoffs because you feel like it. Landeskog left the door open for that, but he can't just show up when he feels like it, because that is cap circumvention. The league has made it clear at least to me that they allow for some wiggle room, but if he is healthy enough to play in December, I can't imagine the league allows him to sit out for 4 more months.
    May 24 at 1:34 a.m.
    #5
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    Doubtful. Manson pretty much made it clear IIRC that Canada wasn't somewhere he was interested in so have to imagine all the teams north of the border are in the 12 and especially in the East.
    tupty liked this.
    May 24 at 1:58 a.m.
    #6
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    Quoting: tupty
    I think you are being a bit unrealistic about how they deal with Landeskog and Nichushkin. Of course they would love to move the Nichushkin contract and just have Landeskog return when his cap hit doesn't count, but:
    1. I'm not even sure Nichushkin can be traded until he is out of the players assistance program (that is how it works with LTIR, not totally sure about this though). If that is the case, that would mean his cap hit would apply at some point in the season, even if it was just for 1 day so you could trade him. To reiterate, I am not sure if this is the case, but I cannot find the answer when I look around online.
    2. I don't think anyone is eager to trade for his contract. You'll need to attach good assets to move the contract. He also has a full NMC, so he could make it really hard for the team to trade him to a bottom-feeder who is willing to take the risk.
    3. You can't just push back Landeskog's return until the playoffs because you feel like it. Landeskog left the door open for that, but he can't just show up when he feels like it, because that is cap circumvention. The league has made it clear at least to me that they allow for some wiggle room, but if he is healthy enough to play in December, I can't imagine the league allows him to sit out for 4 more months.


    1) you can’t trade someone in pap but thinking he is going to get straight is fool hardy. He can’t even apply, apply, to be reinstated until November at the soonest. Until then his cap is like LTIR all they have to do is have prorated space if he were reinstated a big if.
    2) the NMC is what is, getting reinstated is bigger issue but regardless if he does somehow get reinstated it is most likely to team that is confident he has turned the corner and it won’t be for much but they won’t be sending major assets to do it.
    3) the guy has missed 2 years nobody is going to blink, he had a surgery that NOBODY has ever had and played again. He hasn’t done anything remotely close to hockey and an additional couple of months isn’t going to be an issue. Missing 3 years and paying a guy isn’t cap circumventing be real.
    May 24 at 2:21 a.m.
    #7
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    Quoting: TJTwolf
    Doubtful. Manson pretty much made it clear IIRC that Canada wasn't somewhere he was interested in so have to imagine all the teams north of the border are in the 12 and especially in the East.


    Fair enough!
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    May 24 at 2:33 a.m.
    #8
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    Quoting: Xqb15a
    1) you can’t trade someone in pap but thinking he is going to get straight is fool hardy. He can’t even apply, apply, to be reinstated until November at the soonest. Until then his cap is like LTIR all they have to do is have prorated space if he were reinstated a big if.
    2) the NMC is what is, getting reinstated is bigger issue but regardless if he does somehow get reinstated it is most likely to team that is confident he has turned the corner and it won’t be for much but they won’t be sending major assets to do it.
    3) the guy has missed 2 years nobody is going to blink, he had a surgery that NOBODY has ever had and played again. He hasn’t done anything remotely close to hockey and an additional couple of months isn’t going to be an issue. Missing 3 years and paying a guy isn’t cap circumventing be real.


    So most of what you say in #1 is true, and I agree with your point #2. I think the most likely outcome for him is that he is re-instated in Colorado sometime next year in-season, but his chances of relapse are real. I hope for his sake that he stays clean and sober, and ultimately that would be the best outcome for Colorado too. Its just that you can't predict what will happen, which is the the biggest issue.

    No one wants to take on his contract because he has made himself unavailable 2 years in a row in the playoffs. There is no value to top-end teams in a guy who goes off in the regular season but makes himself unavailable when it matters most. Each cup run in a window matters, and the risk of allocating 6m in cap to a guy who might not be around for the playoffs is serious -- its the same reason why you all just want to be rid of his contract. GMs who like to keep their jobs don't take those kinds of risks without some type of compensation. Maybe someone will take him off your hands for free, but I think its more likely that you all will either need to eat some of his salary or send out assets.

    Regarding #3, I am not calling Landeskog's current situation cap circumvention. You claimed that they could just choose to have him return next postseason. The severity of an injury or the amount of time you have missed already doesn't dictate the amount of flexibility that the NHL will give a team with LTIR use. If the Avs have a set of care and rehab plans that are justifiable and have varying durations, then that does give them flexibility in determining when he returns. But they can't just arbitrarily decide that he will be ready when the playoffs come because it is more convenient for their cap situation. I don't think this should be a point of contention.
    May 24 at 2:12 p.m.
    #9
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    1st paragraph. Yes.
    2nd paragraph, someone will take a chance on him talented players always get another chance. A team with strong Russian core like the Rangers, or TB, WSH would make sense. They vet him if everybody signs off they get him for free. COL isn’t trading significant assets away to make him go away, as much as I don’t think they can bring him back they’d bring him back before doing a dumb trade.
    Landy, is no where close to playing. If he isn’t ready at the start of the season they won’t count on him for the season. And do you really think that’s not exactly what VGK has done twice with Stone, and TB with Kucherov?
     
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