Detroits teams isn't worth as much as you think it is.

Agree with you, I think these are pretty outlandish outside of the Green deadline deal.

Time and time again, I see you make absurd trades, overvaluing your players. I'm glad that this time, it's not just me letting you know it.

I understand that you're very attached to your longtime captain Zetterberg and I know he won't be traded this season (any reasonable fan should be aware of this), but this is just ridiculous. The other trades are bad too, with the exception of Green.

Zetterburgh Is Our Long Term Captain And Can't Trade Captains They Are attached too their teams for reasons

Duchene trade isn't realistic, No way is Nielsen waiving his NMC for Colorado and i'm not surrendering 5 years of Nielsen and DeKeyser for 2 years worth of Duchene. Doubt Duchene would be willing to resign back with Detroit when he can go too much better teams. Only trade that's realistic is the Green trade both Carolina and Montreal say NO.

This has a 0% chance, if Montreal is going to make that push they'd just move prospects and not current roster players: not even going to go into depth because it's too bad.

Col: an overpaid old 3rd line center, an overpaid number 3 defenseman and a first for a top line center

Car: why do they need another winger where they're already pretty deep

Dal: green must be having a great year this year to fetch a first.

Put down the nhl 17. Z isn't worth as much as you think, this team is awful and isn't worth much we (Kenny) have to realize this and start over

Agree only the Green trade is realistic, The others are pretty bad especially the Montreal and Carolina trades. And i'm not giving up 5 years of Nielsen and DeKeyser for only 2 years of Duchene.

This was designed to be outlandish. Zetterberg will never be traded, and that's the point I'm making here. What KH would want in a trade would far outweigh what any team would give up to get Z.

The Nyquist trade should've been for Fleury, as I've done in the past with approval from Carolina fans. I'll edit that one.

The only other is Duchene, and I have no idea what he's worth. Thought process was giving a 2C, middle-pairing defenseman (we retain money on his too-high-AAV), and 1st. This is modeled around the rumored Hamonic/prospect/1st offer from NYI (2C instead of prospect, and Hamonic is slightly better than DDK).

Hearing your response kind of sucks though... I almost always post my Armchair teams asking for feedback. If I made the perfect trades on the first time, I'm either overpaying or in the wrong business. Trades take some back and forth, so I start in a place where I think I'm a little low, looking to see what it would take to get a deal done.

Zetterberg as much as i like him isnt worth that much now he is 36 sign till 40 i wouldnt do it for galchenyuk even one for one.

Alright, the explanation of Z is understandable. But I'm pretty sure you were the one who offered something like

MTL Gives
Galchenyuk
DET Gives
Helm, Sheahan, low-tier french-quebecer prospect, low-tier other prospect, 3rd round pick

When I brought it to your attention that you're not even close to being a mile away from close, then you gave a hard pass on Galchenyuk. Since then, I've seen you make one or two more trades where you treat Habs players like trash value and Detroit players like gold value. I dunno, call me a crazy fan, but it's kind of insulting. But I do appreciate the honesty, so I'll pipe down a little.

About the Duchene trade, here's how I visualize things.

Duchene is a 2/3C of the same caliber as Frans Nielsen, with potential to improve to 2C with better linemates (his linemates were terrible). Their cap hits are near enough to ignore. However, 26yo VS 33yo is significant step back, not to mention Nielsen is signed for 5 more years but will very likely take a step back this season. I'd say that become of this, Nielsen's value is maybe 2/3 of Duchene's, at best.
DeKeyser is supremely overvalued in the Detroit fanbase. Even if you retain a million, he also has five years left at 4M and is realistically more of a 3rd pairing guy. Solid for 3rd pairing, weak link pylon in a 2nd pairing. Quite honestly, because of his contract, his value is almost negative.
The 1st round pick DOES help though... As a bottom feeder, that pick is worth more than most, though a 2019 and not 2018 pick.

All in all, I'd say COL would lose this trade big time if they are intending on getting out of their situation asap. If they're playing the long game and hoarding picks, then they still lose the trade a little, but it can be a blessing in disguise on the long term if they draft something good.

That's my 2 cents.

I offered Nielsen + Abby + 2nd for Galchenyuk + Plekanec. At the time, I didn't realize Galchenyuk was valued so high, and I still don't know Plekanec's value (it doesn't seem high since I keep seeing him get traded away). I think this is the only time I've tried a Montreal trade (outside of this silly Zetterberg trade).

I think Sheahan or Helm are each worth a 3rd or 4th at very best, so there's no way I'd add them to that trade unless it were a kicker. I can only see them getting traded for a decent value for a team really in need of a 3C (Pittsburgh?).

I do have a very hard time valuing our defensemen because they're all playing at a higher level than they should be (since we don't have a true 1D), and our team as a whole regressed last season. I think DDK could be a good 4D, maybe a decent 3D at his ceiling, but that peak is coming very quickly as he's already 27.

Is XO a better value, considering his contract and that he's probably got about the same ceiling, though he's a few years younger? That might be the case. Would swapping XO and DDK in this trade make a difference significant enough to get COL to accept?

I think where you're missing the boat on the Duchene trade is that age matters. DDK is 27, Nielsen is 32. Duchene is 26 - the reason Sakic is shopping him is to get younger and compete in a few years with the prospects/picks they can gather. Yes, Hamonic is 26, but I think the other parts of that supposed NYI deal were going to be young and talented.

Huh, then I guess I caused a stink for confusing you with someone who has probably a similar username tag. Sorry bout that buddy.

While we're on this tangent, I do remember that trade now, though it is indeed quite bad of a trade because of Galchenyuk being included. He is valued high, but not at the level of MacKinnon (even though their productions are essentially identical). As for Plekanec, his value is low. He could be worth a 2nd round pick with 3M retained for a team like Pitts who really need a good, fast, veteran, defensively sound 3C. But otherwise worth a 3rd round pick with 3M retention.

As for Sheahan going to Pittsburgh, I really don't think that happens when they have much better options available. He would probably go more to a team that needs fillers for a really low pick, like 5th or so.
Helm has more of a chance to make it to Pittsburgh imo, but again with 50% salary retention, otherwise he's way overpaid.

See my comment above yours. Would swapping DDK (27yo, $4M) out and XO (24yo, $1.25M) in tip the scales a bit?

It would, a bit, but not significantly. You've gone from negative/neutral value to very small value. XO isn't projected to be anything more than a 5th defenseman, and simply has little upside. Detroit simply doesn't have any NHL-cusping or NHL-ready D prospects with trade value, and that's why you'd be a bad trade partner with Colorado (who's looking for that).

**edit: To clarify, this is the league perception of XO. I'll be glad to have him defy our expectations, but regardless, that's his trade value. It's a lot like the Galchenyuk situation. Circumstances have shot his value down to the rest of the league, but he still has value within the team.

Okay, this is fair. So who would be a realistic <30 1C the Wings could target without sacrificing Larkin/AA/Mantha? I assume Draisaitl's out of our league. Backstrom? RNH is meh. Tavares is too expensive and unlikely. ROR due to Eichel/Reinhart up and coming?

No on that Duchene trade

I'm pretty confident there isn't a single 1C that your Wings can afford without touching Larkin/AA/Mantha. It's just about giving value to get value back. You don't have the pieces available to do that. Your best bet is to trade solid veteran pieces for a solid prospect. It might be unpopular, but actually trading your captain (if the above combo is off-limits) is probably the only way you'd ever get anyone worth mentioning back.

I'd suggest simply shuffling the deck and waiting it out. Ship out those big contracts for next to nothing to teams who need their veteran abilities. Let the kids come up. Draft some good kids for the next two, three (up to 5) seasons. Then progressively add a couple key veteran pieces back in there. That's how I see a proper rebuild should be done.