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Why is everyone suggesting Will Butcher to Pittsburgh?

Aug. 13, 2017 at 5:22 p.m.
#26
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
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Then how do you explain his agent's comments about Pittsburgh? Also, I'm sorry, but if you actually think Pouliot has a chance of playing top 4 time in Pittsburgh, then you've never watched him play. He is a bust... He lost his job in PIT to guys like Ruhwedel and Gaunce last year. Unless he has a severe 180 in his career path, he will never be more than an injury fill-in in PIT.


With most teams, yeah, he probably would be a bottom pairing guy, but the Penguins have been known to take these 'not great' prospects and turn them into great players who play big roles.

Edit: He's still young, give him some time.


I think what you are referring to is PIT's ability to turn lesser known prospects and guys generally not viewed as a valuable prospect at the draft into key pieces.

That's not the same as Pouliot's case. He was drafted 8th overall. He was a blue chip prospect. He had the eye of every team out there. But when he's needed to evolve his game to the pro level, he has struggled massively. The organization is also down on him after some questions regarding his off-ice behavior and his maturation level/work ethic.

Basically, the only reason that Pouliot is still with the Pens organization is probably because his trade value is so low at this point that it doesn't do much good to trade him.
Aug. 13, 2017 at 5:28 p.m.
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With most teams, yeah, he probably would be a bottom pairing guy, but the Penguins have been known to take these 'not great' prospects and turn them into great players who play big roles.

Edit: He's still young, give him some time.


I think what you are referring to is PIT's ability to turn lesser known prospects and guys generally not viewed as a valuable prospect at the draft into key pieces.

That's not the same as Pouliot's case. He was drafted 8th overall. He was a blue chip prospect. He had the eye of every team out there. But when he's needed to evolve his game to the pro level, he has struggled massively. The organization is also down on him after some questions regarding his off-ice behavior and his maturation level/work ethic.

Basically, the only reason that Pouliot is still with the Pens organization is probably because his trade value is so low at this point that it doesn't do much good to trade him.


yes, but right now he's seen as a 'not great' prospect.
Aug. 13, 2017 at 6:11 p.m.
#28
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Explain your reasoning. Why wouldn't Will Butcher want to sign with an organization that has the longest running playoff streak in the NHL, that has just won back-to-back cups, and has a well-established system of promoting NCAA talent like Butcher to meaningful roles in the NHL? What argument do you have for him not wanting to play there?

Also, just an FYI, Butcher's agent has already expressed interest in Pittsburgh as a landing spot, meaning that Butcher himself is at least somewhat interested.


Well Pittsburgh has just won 2 cups, and he wouldn't get a lot of ice time and they still have some prospects that could take that spot to replace Daley. He'd be a bigger part of another team like Chicago, who's closer to his home ... i thought he'd stay with the Avs but i guess not anymore.
The Penguins have Letang, Schultz, Maatta, and Dumoulin as their top 4, and i could see the Pens giving Pouliot a big role possibly if they move out Maatta/Dumoulin in a Duchene deal. On a team like Chicago, Toronto, or someone like that he'd play a bigger role, and he'd get more ice time, and he wouldn't just go to the Penguins who have no need for him.
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2017/07/27/Will-Butcher-Hobey-Baker-Penguins-NCAA-free-agent/stories/201707270152

quote (emphasis mine):
"Immediate playing time is not absolutely necessary, [Brian Bartlett, Will Butcher's agent] said. And that's good, because it would probably take Butcher a year or two to crack the Penguins NHL roster if he somehow wound up signing here.

'That’s not what we’re looking to hear – that you can step right in,' Bartlett said. 'Will’s a very grounded and bright kid. He’s been around the game a long time. His dad’s a coach. They really understand that they’re trying to build a career here. It’s not who can get him there the fastest. It’s really who’s got a plan for him to be an NHL player for a long time if he puts in the work.'"

so, uh, no, Butcher's not interested in who's going to give him the most playing time. this would then give credence to the idea that Butcher likes the Penguins because they have an established track record of turning NCAA players into competent NHL players.
Aug. 13, 2017 at 6:15 p.m.
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Well Pittsburgh has just won 2 cups, and he wouldn't get a lot of ice time and they still have some prospects that could take that spot to replace Daley. He'd be a bigger part of another team like Chicago, who's closer to his home ... i thought he'd stay with the Avs but i guess not anymore.
The Penguins have Letang, Schultz, Maatta, and Dumoulin as their top 4, and i could see the Pens giving Pouliot a big role possibly if they move out Maatta/Dumoulin in a Duchene deal. On a team like Chicago, Toronto, or someone like that he'd play a bigger role, and he'd get more ice time, and he wouldn't just go to the Penguins who have no need for him.
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2017/07/27/Will-Butcher-Hobey-Baker-Penguins-NCAA-free-agent/stories/201707270152

quote (emphasis mine):
"Immediate playing time is not absolutely necessary, [Brian Bartlett, Will Butcher's agent] said. And that's good, because it would probably take Butcher a year or two to crack the Penguins NHL roster if he somehow wound up signing here.

'That’s not what we’re looking to hear – that you can step right in,' Bartlett said. 'Will’s a very grounded and bright kid. He’s been around the game a long time. His dad’s a coach. They really understand that they’re trying to build a career here. It’s not who can get him there the fastest. It’s really who’s got a plan for him to be an NHL player for a long time if he puts in the work.'"

so, uh, no, Butcher's not interested in who's going to give him the most playing time. this would then give credence to the idea that Butcher likes the Penguins because they have an established track record of turning NCAA players into competent NHL players.


he'd be good on another team too.
Aug. 13, 2017 at 6:25 p.m.
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http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2017/07/27/Will-Butcher-Hobey-Baker-Penguins-NCAA-free-agent/stories/201707270152

quote (emphasis mine):
"Immediate playing time is not absolutely necessary, [Brian Bartlett, Will Butcher's agent] said. And that's good, because it would probably take Butcher a year or two to crack the Penguins NHL roster if he somehow wound up signing here.

'That’s not what we’re looking to hear – that you can step right in,' Bartlett said. 'Will’s a very grounded and bright kid. He’s been around the game a long time. His dad’s a coach. They really understand that they’re trying to build a career here. It’s not who can get him there the fastest. It’s really who’s got a plan for him to be an NHL player for a long time if he puts in the work.'"

so, uh, no, Butcher's not interested in who's going to give him the most playing time. this would then give credence to the idea that Butcher likes the Penguins because they have an established track record of turning NCAA players into competent NHL players.


he'd be good on another team too.
okay. so?

you wanted to know why everyone thought the Penguins were the front-runner for Butcher, and I gave you a reasonable chain of logic as to why people are linking his name to the Penguins (and also the fact that his agent said, "yeah, we'll answer the phone if they come calling," which really doesn't say that much of anything meaningful). end of discussion.
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Aug. 13, 2017 at 6:26 p.m.
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That has nothing to do with what he just said. He means that PIT has a track record of developing NCAA players and if he wants to have the highest level of NHL transition, Pittsburgh would be the place to go.
Aug. 13, 2017 at 7:09 p.m.
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he'd be good on another team too.
okay. so?

you wanted to know why everyone thought the Penguins were the front-runner for Butcher, and I gave you a reasonable chain of logic as to why people are linking his name to the Penguins (and also the fact that his agent said, "yeah, we'll answer the phone if they come calling," which really doesn't say that much of anything meaningful). end of discussion.


but if he signed in PIT he'd leave pretty quickly.
Aug. 13, 2017 at 7:14 p.m.
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okay. so?

you wanted to know why everyone thought the Penguins were the front-runner for Butcher, and I gave you a reasonable chain of logic as to why people are linking his name to the Penguins (and also the fact that his agent said, "yeah, we'll answer the phone if they come calling," which really doesn't say that much of anything meaningful). end of discussion.


but if he signed in PIT he'd leave pretty quickly.
...he's a free agent. after Tuesday, nobody's going to own his rights. if he signs with the Penguins, it'll be because he wants to be there. nobody's making him sign with the Penguins. (and, even if he was forced to sign with the Penguins, in whatever alternate version of reality you're currently imagining, the Penguins would own his rights once he was signed, and it would be exceedingly difficult for him to leave.)
Aug. 13, 2017 at 7:15 p.m.
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but if he signed in PIT he'd leave pretty quickly.
...he's a free agent. after Tuesday, nobody's going to own his rights. if he signs with the Penguins, it'll be because he wants to be there. nobody's making him sign with the Penguins. (and, even if this were somehow true, in whatever alternate version of reality you're currently imagining, the Penguins would own his rights once he was signed, and it would be exceedingly difficult for him to leave.)


Well right now he can only sign for 925K at most, right? He'd probably get more soon from someone else.
Aug. 13, 2017 at 7:16 p.m.
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...he's a free agent. after Tuesday, nobody's going to own his rights. if he signs with the Penguins, it'll be because he wants to be there. nobody's making him sign with the Penguins. (and, even if this were somehow true, in whatever alternate version of reality you're currently imagining, the Penguins would own his rights once he was signed, and it would be exceedingly difficult for him to leave.)


Well right now he can only sign for 925K at most, right? He'd probably get more soon from someone else.
didja miss the part where the Penguins would own his rights and that it would be exceedingly difficult for him to leave the organization?
Aug. 13, 2017 at 7:20 p.m.
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Well right now he can only sign for 925K at most, right? He'd probably get more soon from someone else.
didja miss the part where the Penguins would own his rights and that it would be exceedingly difficult for him to leave the organization?


well whenever he becomes a UFA he'd ... actually never mind, the Pens might be able to use him more in 5 years. Ok, i guess you're right, he'd be an okay signing there but not for right away.
Aug. 13, 2017 at 7:26 p.m.
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didja miss the part where the Penguins would own his rights and that it would be exceedingly difficult for him to leave the organization?


well whenever he becomes a UFA he'd ... actually never mind, the Pens might be able to use him more in 5 years. Ok, i guess you're right, he'd be an okay signing there but not for right away.
the Penguins wouldn't expect Butcher to be a great player right away, because defenders can take some time to mature and become NHL-level players, and they clearly know that (see: Brian Dumoulin).

Butcher clearly doesn't want to be thrust into the limelight right away, either, and we've seen what happens when a coveted NCAA free agent defender signs with a team, gets thrust into 1st-pairing minutes, and fails miserably and loses self-confidence, only to be traded away for a 3rd-round pick.
Aug. 13, 2017 at 10:41 p.m.
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well whenever he becomes a UFA he'd ... actually never mind, the Pens might be able to use him more in 5 years. Ok, i guess you're right, he'd be an okay signing there but not for right away.
the Penguins wouldn't expect Butcher to be a great player right away, because defenders can take some time to mature and become NHL-level players, and they clearly know that (see: Brian Dumoulin).

Butcher clearly doesn't want to be thrust into the limelight right away, either, and we've seen what happens when a coveted NCAA free agent defender signs with a team, gets thrust into 1st-pairing minutes, and fails miserably and loses self-confidence, only to be traded away for a 3rd-round pick.


but i mean he probably wants to play somewhere right away.
Aug. 13, 2017 at 10:46 p.m.
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the Penguins wouldn't expect Butcher to be a great player right away, because defenders can take some time to mature and become NHL-level players, and they clearly know that (see: Brian Dumoulin).

Butcher clearly doesn't want to be thrust into the limelight right away, either, and we've seen what happens when a coveted NCAA free agent defender signs with a team, gets thrust into 1st-pairing minutes, and fails miserably and loses self-confidence, only to be traded away for a 3rd-round pick.


but i mean he probably wants to play somewhere right away.


"Immediate playing time is not absolutely necessary, [Brian Bartlett, Will Butcher's agent] said. And that's good, because it would probably take Butcher a year or two to crack the Penguins NHL roster if he somehow wound up signing here.
Aug. 13, 2017 at 10:59 p.m.
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but i mean he probably wants to play somewhere right away.


"Immediate playing time is not absolutely necessary, [Brian Bartlett, Will Butcher's agent] said. And that's good, because it would probably take Butcher a year or two to crack the Penguins NHL roster if he somehow wound up signing here.


rolling eyes
Aug. 13, 2017 at 11:05 p.m.
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the Penguins wouldn't expect Butcher to be a great player right away, because defenders can take some time to mature and become NHL-level players, and they clearly know that (see: Brian Dumoulin).

Butcher clearly doesn't want to be thrust into the limelight right away, either, and we've seen what happens when a coveted NCAA free agent defender signs with a team, gets thrust into 1st-pairing minutes, and fails miserably and loses self-confidence, only to be traded away for a 3rd-round pick.


but i mean he probably wants to play somewhere right away.
is your name Will Butcher? is your name Brian Bartlett? are you, in any way, associated with the Butcher family in such a way that you know what he wants?

didn't think so. all anyone has to go on with regards to what Butcher wants is what he or his agent says.
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Aug. 14, 2017 at 1:42 a.m.
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but i mean he probably wants to play somewhere right away.
is your name Will Butcher? is your name Brian Bartlett? are you, in any way, associated with the Butcher family in such a way that you know what he wants?

didn't think so. all anyone has to go on with regards to what Butcher wants is what he or his agent says.


yeah, my name's Will Butcher ... unsure



My last comment was actually saying 'that's fair'. That face kind of says, 'yeah, i guess that's fair'.
 
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