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Most misunderstood thing in hockey?

Aug. 27, 2017 at 5:40 p.m.
#1
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For me, i think it might be the whole idea that you can never say there's almost a 100% chance a player gets traded, and this includes how people seem to think 'it was a mistake to not trade this player'. And how a GM's job isn't just to make trades, and sometimes you need to keep the team together. To me, that is the most misunderstood thing in hockey. What would you say it is?
Aug. 27, 2017 at 5:43 p.m.
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Advanced Analytics (or lack of understanding)
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Aug. 27, 2017 at 5:47 p.m.
#3
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the value of a player willing to stand up for his teammates
Aug. 27, 2017 at 7:58 p.m.
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
Advanced Analytics (or lack of understanding)


Somehow, I knew this was coming as soon as I saw the title of this thread
Aug. 27, 2017 at 7:59 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
Advanced Analytics (or lack of understanding)


I think they're misunderstood because i don't think they tell everything.
Aug. 27, 2017 at 8:07 p.m.
#6
Habs
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They're misunderstood because a lot of people don't understand them, it's irrelevant whether or not they "tell everything"
Aug. 27, 2017 at 8:07 p.m.
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Quoting: phillyjabroni
Advanced Analytics (or lack of understanding)


I think they're misunderstood because i don't think they tell everything.


I disagree. I think they are misunderstood because people don't actually know who to read them. The fact is that they don't tell everything, but they are excellent quantifiers of what you visualize. There is a reason why Billy Beane, Sam Hinkie, etc. are hired. There are reasons why the Dallas Mavericks, Houston Astros, Chicago Cubs, etc. are successful.
Aug. 27, 2017 at 8:16 p.m.
#8
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I understand why people have to try and come up with some statistic to justify their reasoning, but I still don't like it. The people in charge of professional sports teams should be able to evaluate talent on their own. These are the very best in their business. If they can't simply watch a player and know that they'd be a good fit for their team, they shouldn't be in charge.
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Aug. 27, 2017 at 8:22 p.m.
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Quoting: krakowitz
I understand why people have to try and come up with some statistic to justify their reasoning, but I still don't like it. The people in charge of professional sports teams should be able to evaluate talent on their own. These are the very best in their business. If they can't simply watch a player and know that they'd be a good fit for their team, they shouldn't be in charge.


Seeing as how the teams I mentioned before we GMs (Beane, Hinkie, etc.) they understand talent. Analytics literally quantify what you watch. Its a nice, condensed version of what you see. For example, I see that Andrew MacDonald is god awful on defense. Looking at his HERO (very terrible) I can come to the same conclusion as I have whether I do or don't watch him play.
Aug. 27, 2017 at 8:33 p.m.
#10
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Long term injured reserve
Aug. 27, 2017 at 8:34 p.m.
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
Quoting: krakowitz
I understand why people have to try and come up with some statistic to justify their reasoning, but I still don't like it. The people in charge of professional sports teams should be able to evaluate talent on their own. These are the very best in their business. If they can't simply watch a player and know that they'd be a good fit for their team, they shouldn't be in charge.


Seeing as how the teams I mentioned before we GMs (Beane, Hinkie, etc.) they understand talent. Analytics literally quantify what you watch. Its a nice, condensed version of what you see. For example, I see that Andrew MacDonald is god awful on defense. Looking at his HERO (very terrible) I can come to the same conclusion as I have whether I do or don't watch him play.


In the major North American sports, there are 123 general managers that make roster decisions. These are the people that know the most about their sport. When they watch a player, no matter what level, they should be able to evaluate the talent just off of what they see. There should be no need to figure out any of these advanced stats for these guys. For the casual fan, I see why they might find them useful. But the people that are trusted with running that large an organization should know what talent is when they see it, period.
Aug. 27, 2017 at 8:43 p.m.
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I am sure that GMs can do that. I am not sure why you slander analytics, especially if a GM opts to bring them in. Look at what Billy Beane did to the Athletics. He utilized advanced analytics to make his team better. Look at Sam Hinkie and the Houston Rockets/Philadelphia 76ers. He made the Rockets better and the 76ers are now a team on the rise w/ young talent.
Aug. 27, 2017 at 9:39 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
Quoting: krakowitz
I understand why people have to try and come up with some statistic to justify their reasoning, but I still don't like it. The people in charge of professional sports teams should be able to evaluate talent on their own. These are the very best in their business. If they can't simply watch a player and know that they'd be a good fit for their team, they shouldn't be in charge.


Seeing as how the teams I mentioned before we GMs (Beane, Hinkie, etc.) they understand talent. Analytics literally quantify what you watch. Its a nice, condensed version of what you see. For example, I see that Andrew MacDonald is god awful on defense. Looking at his HERO (very terrible) I can come to the same conclusion as I have whether I do or don't watch him play.


MacDonald is actually a pretty good player.
Aug. 27, 2017 at 9:39 p.m.
#14
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yeah, i still don't fully understand how it works ...
Aug. 27, 2017 at 9:40 p.m.
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Quoting: phillyjabroni


Seeing as how the teams I mentioned before we GMs (Beane, Hinkie, etc.) they understand talent. Analytics literally quantify what you watch. Its a nice, condensed version of what you see. For example, I see that Andrew MacDonald is god awful on defense. Looking at his HERO (very terrible) I can come to the same conclusion as I have whether I do or don't watch him play.


MacDonald is actually a pretty good player.


Uh no
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Aug. 27, 2017 at 10:01 p.m.
#16
Oh Canada
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Quoting: phillyjabroni


Seeing as how the teams I mentioned before we GMs (Beane, Hinkie, etc.) they understand talent. Analytics literally quantify what you watch. Its a nice, condensed version of what you see. For example, I see that Andrew MacDonald is god awful on defense. Looking at his HERO (very terrible) I can come to the same conclusion as I have whether I do or don't watch him play.


MacDonald is actually a pretty good player.


Please grow up to be the GM of a team in the central that isn't Winnipeg
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Aug. 27, 2017 at 10:19 p.m.
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Mr_cap
Aug. 27, 2017 at 11:09 p.m.
#18
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
I am sure that GMs can do that. I am not sure why you slander analytics, especially if a GM opts to bring them in. Look at what Billy Beane did to the Athletics. He utilized advanced analytics to make his team better. Look at Sam Hinkie and the Houston Rockets/Philadelphia 76ers. He made the Rockets better and the 76ers are now a team on the rise w/ young talent.


I'm not saying that they can't be useful. I'm saying that for the people being trusted with professional organizations, they shouldn't be necessary. They are the best of the best and should be able to identify talent and know what works best with the players that they have. And your 76ers are on the rise because of all those damn first overall picks they have, and they've been doing this rebuild for how long? I feel like I've been hearing "trust the process" for the past 10 years. Eventually they have to be better (i.e. Edmonton)

But I'm not a basketball guy, so what do I know
Aug. 27, 2017 at 11:27 p.m.
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It is most certainly necessary. Look at the Oakland Athletics in the early 2000s. Look at the Houston Rockets in the 2010s.

The 76ers have been on the rise because of the following things : a.) don't sign veterans ; b.) maintain cap flexibility ; c.) build through the draft. The 76ers, in the tenure of Sam Hinkie, only had the No. 1 overall once (Ben Simmons). They recently traded up to draft Markelle Fultz. They have been "winning" since the NBA draft in 2013. You have only heard "Trust the Process" for probably about 3-4 years.

Scouting is supposed to gather intel on talent. The GM is supposed to evaluate that intel + their own intel. These advanced analytics guys are supposed to tell the front office partners who is good and who isn't based on stats. They have proprietary stats for a reason. This stuff works and it works well.
Aug. 28, 2017 at 1:43 a.m.
#20
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Black Lives Matter
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
Quoting: rangersandislesfan


MacDonald is actually a pretty good player.


Uh no


He wouldn't be in the NHL if he wasn't a good player anyway ...
However, even at NHL level, he's still a good player. By that i don't mean top 4 d-man, but he's an okay, experienced, bottom pairing d-man.
Aug. 28, 2017 at 10:15 a.m.
#21
Below Market Value
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Edited Aug. 28, 2017 at 10:46 a.m.
Basically anything on this website that has a FAQ section.

AKA the entirety of the CBA.
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Aug. 28, 2017 at 10:30 a.m.
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Quoting: phillyjabroni


Uh no


He wouldn't be in the NHL if he wasn't a good player anyway ...
However, even at NHL level, he's still a good player. By that i don't mean top 4 d-man, but he's an okay, experienced, bottom pairing d-man.


RAIF, any time we ever compare players skill level, its to other NHL players.
I am confused. First you say hes a pretty good player, than "still a good player', and then "hes an okay....player". Which is it?
Aug. 28, 2017 at 11:19 a.m.
#23
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
Quoting: rangersandislesfan


He wouldn't be in the NHL if he wasn't a good player anyway ...
However, even at NHL level, he's still a good player. By that i don't mean top 4 d-man, but he's an okay, experienced, bottom pairing d-man.


RAIF, any time we ever compare players skill level, its to other NHL players.
I am confused. First you say hes a pretty good player, than "still a good player', and then "hes an okay....player". Which is it?


Well, i'll say that it depends what you mean by good ... compared to the rest of the world, he's s total superstar. Compared to most o the NHLers, it depends what you mean by good. If good means a top 4 D then he'd be average, but if it includes guys that can play bottom pair and bring some experience then he'd be good ... compared to McDavid and Crosby he's be pretty bad (just compared to them though).
Aug. 28, 2017 at 11:28 a.m.
#24
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Andrew MacDonald, comparatively, to other NHL defensemen, is not "good".
Aug. 28, 2017 at 11:29 a.m.
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Not this **** again
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