TRADE (3-way):

To #Sens
M Duchene

To #Preds
K Turris

To #Avs
S Girard
V Kamenev
A Hammond
S Bowers
OTT 2018 1st & 3rd RD
NAS 2018 2nd RD

— CapFriendly (@CapFriendly) November 6, 2017

Colorado: Sakic's patience paid off, way to go. Three good prospects, three draft picks for Duchene. Big win.

Nashville: got a great second centre and locked him In for six more years for a reasonable price of two prospects and a second. Good deal.

Ottawa: For a minor upgrade via swap of top line centres, ottawa has to give up a very good prospect, a 1st and a 3rd. They probably weren't going to be able to sign Turris, but will they really be able to sign Duchene when Karlsson is a UFA at the same time? Bad deal.

Ottawa fleeced, Sakic is a genius.

What an overpay... Good deals for NSH and COL, but OTT just got fleeced.

So when you think about it, OTT traded a 1st + 2nd + 3rd + Girard + Kamenev + Hammond + Bowers to essentially just upgrade Turris to Duchene which is not that big of an improvement.......wow

Girard + Kamenev + 2nd for a signed Turris is fair market value, so good for NSH

Sakic and Dorion really just destroyed the trade market.... now every GM is going to have these expectation if they want to move a top 6 forward...they now know waiting for someone to MASSIVELY overpay works...

Note: OTT 2018 1st to COL is top 10-protected. If OTT ends up there, Sens have option to keep. If they do, COL gets 2019 1st no matter what.

— Elliotte Friedman (@FriedgeHNIC) November 6, 2017

With the right linemates Duchene can be a 70 point guy again, Ottawa still got fleeced.

COL and NSH both win, huge loss for Ottawa.
Giving up a top 6 centre, a 1st, a 3rd, a goalie with a ton of potential (though he may never be a full-time NHLer), and a top prospect for a struggling forward is crazy IMO.

Call me biased, but I don't think Ottawa lost this trade as much as everyone thinks. Take a look at our prospect pool, and you'll see we have much better pieces than Bowers in White, Brown, Chabot, Formenton, Jaros, and Harpur (among a few others that aren't as notable). Not having to give up one of those pieces was huge. Bowers was a first round pick, but a 'very safe' pick and not that high on our depth chart. I could easily see him turning into another Curtis Lazar from the expectations of a first-round pick that we pushed too hard too soon.

Hammond and his contract going to Colorado was actually a very good thing for us. Condon having the season he did last year didn't do any favours for Hammond returning to the NHL, and while I think Hammond's still capable of being a very solid backup (aside from his atrocious 4.08 GAA and .837 SV% in 6 GP last year). Condon's play pushed Hammond out of his roster spot at the start of the season and Condon was given a new 3-year contract, more or less solidifying Hammond's role as Belleville's starter. It's a good thing for the team as it gives our promising prospect goaltender (Marcus Hogberg) more playing time in the AHL with Daniel Taylor and Chris Driedger.

As for giving up Turris, it was well known that he was wanting more than we were willing to give him (a 7-8 year deal at 6.5 - 7.0 million, which pays him 6.5 - 7.0 million until he's 35-36) and there were a lot of rumblings that he was going to walk at the end of the year (without continuing to negotiate a contract with Ottawa). Duchene is two years younger, has an additional year on his contract (granted at almost twice the AAV for this season), and has arguably more upside. You can argue that Turris and Duchene put up about the same amount of points and we drastically overpaid for a minor upgrade, but Duchene also has that explosiveness to his game that (outside of Karlsson) we never really had.

Finally, the first and third we gave up in addition to everything else... I don't believe we're worried about giving up the third, and our first round pick is conditional and protected if it becomes a Top 10.
*Condition: If the 2018 1st is a top 10 pick, Ottawa will retain the pick and Colorado will receive a 2019 1st instead.*
So, if Ottawa makes another miraculous push to the Conference Finals like last season, the pick will become another late first that will most likely (don't take my word for it) become another Shane Bowers. If not, Ottawa keeps their Top 10 pick (or whatever middle-of-the-road place it is).

Our offence is just as good as before, if not better, and our defence is unchanged, as is our goaltending... I think Duchene could make Hoffman, Stone, Ryan (when he's healthy), and MacArthur (here's hoping when MacArthur returns, not if), even better than when they played with Turris (and Brassard).

TL;DR, the fact that Ottawa sent away a pending UFA that already had one foot out of the door into Matt Duchene is incredible (again, call me biased). We (hopefully) acquire a more skilled, more talented, and younger centre without having to give up any huge pieces to our core or prospect pool.

When you think about it COL won this trade by a mile, for what they were asking for duchene the got way more than the original price

Ottawa gave up a lot just to get one more year out of similar players, Turris, and Duchene. And so what if Turris left as a UFA, Ottawa would have 6 m to spend for a Turris replacement. And wouldn't you like to be in Duchene's position in summer of 2019. He'll be a UFA, and Ottawa will be obligated to overpay him, because they paid so much too get him. If Duchene plays up to press clippings as a top centre, then the trade might be worth for Ottawa though. For the past three years, Duchene has been a Turris. Interesting two years in Ottawa.

Kaifin I appreciate the summary.

That's not the case, because three of those assets (Girard, Kamenev, 2nd) were Nashville's. Ottawa gave up Bowers, Hammond, a 1st, and a 3rd. Still a steep price, but not a whole seven assets.

Colorado should now trade Varlamov at the deadline, and tank with Hammond and Bernier in net, lol.

Those 3 NSH assets were traded for a signed Turris, so they were for OTT to do what they wanted, and they decided to flip those assets to COL along with their 4, so yeah they gave up 7 pieces to just upgrade Turris to Duchene.

OTT should of just traded Turris to NSH and kept the 2nd, Girard and Kamenev. Which would of been a great trade! Trading 7 pieces for one player who is just a small upgrade over the one you got rid of is terrible asset management on Dorion’s part.

I don't disagree that we gave up a lot of assets for a player that produced similar stats, but think about what we actually traded away.

Andrew Hammond, who wasn't going to play for Ottawa with Anderson and Condon in front of him, save for an injury. (We also have Daniel Taylor for an emergency backup)
Shane Bowers, who isn't considered to be a transcendent talent or a top prospect. (Maybe, maybe not)
Our first-round pick, that's Top 10 protected, so even if we have a bad season with Duchene, we have the possibility of keeping our first.
And our third-round pick, which I don't think is really worth mentioning. (Unless Colorado finds a Sidney Crosby or Erik Karlsson with the pick)



I think it would be a big deal if Turris left for nothing. Yes, we have 6 million (or 3.5) to spend on a FA centre, but there aren't a whole lot of names that I can see signing in Ottawa and being capable of playing first-line minutes. I don't see Thornton or Tavares signing here, and Henrik Sedin is most likely going to sign a 1-year extension with the Canucks. So that would leave Paul Stastny as our best hope and I don't see us signing him long-term.



It'll be interesting for sure, no doubt. But Duchene's proven before that he can be an elite centre. He has posted similar numbers to Turris over the last few years, but I believe he has a greater upside and being the #1 guy in Ottawa might help push him along that path to being an elite centre again. Just look at what happened when we acquired Turris.



Cheers.


I am by no means trying to convince anybody that Ottawa came out of this deal on top, because I'll be honest-- when I first saw the trade, my jaw dropped. But thinking more about what we gave up and what we got in return, I think saying that we gave up so much for a player that has been a Kyle Turris for the last few years isn't entirely wrong... but isn't entirely right either. Say what you will about our management or coaching, but Dorion is a very smart man and I don't think he would have done this deal if he didn't think Duchene could bring more to the team than Turris did. He gave up assets he considered expendable, managed to keep our core intact, and didn't have to do away with our top prospects in Chabot, Brown, or White.

Realistically though, only time will tell how it works out for everyone. I won't disagree when you say Nashville is scary good with the addition of Turris behind Ryan Johansen, and Sakic being a stubborn ******* has given Colorado exactly what they wanted in an abundance of picks and prospects, but if Duchene can bring back a little of what he had in 2013-14 with players like Hoffman, Stone, and Karlsson, I think he can be that elite centre putting up 70-something points again and Ottawa looks a bit better coming out of this trade.

(Also I apologize for the massive 'rant' posts. I swear I'm not a naive "We're the best" fan.)

I really liked your posts, it made me login to vote/reply so glad took the time to say what was on mind . I gave the nod to the Avalanche since they needed to move him, waited, got a better return than anything they had on table prior probably... Also they are more than 1 player away from competing for anything... Senators probably came in second, since he is likely to produce more in the easier to play in East while Turris is likely to stay same or drop in his production playing in a harder Western Conference. Senators only have a small window with a goalie who might win them a Championship along with a blue chip D-man. They probably wanted to upgrade their speed if nothing else in this move. If they do as good or better than recent season they will have won the trade in many ways if not outright for short term . If they win The Cup then they won for what they needed to do clearly . Predators I think it was more desperate, they needed a move to even get into Post Season or risk missing out... Losing Fisher, other issues, made them have to pull the trigger while gambling 6M over 6 years this guy wont become a bust like many players who get paid become... Their goalie is inconsistent along with injury prone, so don't see Preds winning anything even if they manage to eek into playoffs .

In reality the NHL wins with this trade, not to mention their fans... Moving players who were not happy or going to work in their current markets before it got ugly... Avalanche can have BK night if the Hamburgler dude plays for them who tailed off from his hot start to say least... This helps them replace Pickard which they lost in the expansion draft only for Vegas to flush that down toilet when he could have really helped them. I don't mind them grabbing Subban on waivers, yet trading the goalie like that coupled with those they passed up in expansion draft while letting Berube go unsigned has them in a tougher spot when had easy path to post season etc .

Much appreciated!



Scarily true and I couldn't agree more. Anderson is a quality goaltender (maybe Top 15?), but he isn't getting any younger and I don't believe Condon is a full-time replacement (yet). Our salary situation is less than satisfactory, with big money coming for Stone and Ceci next year, and Karlsson, Duchene, Brassard the year after. We also have the contract anchors that are Ryan (7.25M @ 5 Yrs) and Phaneuf (7.00M @ 4 Yrs). Those are going to hit us hard when it comes time to resign Stone, Karlsson, and Duchene. So our time to win is definitely now, and whether Duchene is the answer to that or not will probably be answered by mid-December.



I can see how it might hurt them in the long run, but I think it's a somewhat reasonable contract, at least when compared to the Bonino signing. Turris is definitely one of the better second-line centres, and his signing alleviates a lot of stress I think was on Johansen (and on Bonino being a #2 rather than a #3). They also have a solid fall-back guy should Johansen get injured, as Turris has that experience playing top-line minutes against the best players. His production may drop a bit, but I think with linemates in Fiala and Smith (at least Fiala-Turris-Smith was the last combination I heard) he'll still produce somewhere in the 50 point range. He's skilled enough to pull it off.



...but Pekka Rinne is just too good right now.



I still firmly believe Hammond can be a solid backup, but he needs a good defence in front of him-- like every goalie does. I'm looking at you, Montreal... Keep in mind that the Avalanche signed Bernier to a one-year deal. So I doubt Hammond will get any more playing time in the NHL (again, save for an injury) than he did with Ottawa.


Lastly, I agree completely that Vegas screwed the pooch on some of their drafting choices. Detroit, for example, protected Howard over Mrazek. Now, I forget if there was a deal in place or not, but if there wasn't, why would you pick Nosek over Mrazek. I think he has a lot more upside than Nosek and just about anyone would benefit from getting out of Detroit at this time. It would also help in their current situation in which Lagace and Ferguson are their two NHL goaltenders. Who, before the string of injuries, they only had about 25 minutes of NHL experience between the two of them. (All of it belonging to Lagace when he came in for when... Dansk? got injured.)

I appreciate the response! Have a good day/afternoon/night.

You are welcome I'm not talented to break up things as great as you with the multi quotes though very impressive just the same .... I'll try to answer with numbers to make it easier to follow than my usual replies though .

1. Senators I think it was smart since their goalie is long in the tooth with window closing for possible Championship Run after they should have made Cup over Penguins last year... I figure they got a fast player who wants to be there more than Turris did... They probably had to pick between him or something like an Evander Kane which is in East so harder to make trades in general than with West for Eastern teams. They got a year or two with him then they can ship him at Trading Deadline to rebuild the franchise after their blue chip goalie retires or declines... Broderu got Devils to SCF at like age 40 vs Kings but couldn't work his magic vs. LA at that point in his age . Maybe he can be a Roloson who can play into his 40's, think he lost the Cup when on Oilers though don't quote me on that haha ... BTW I didn't like them taking Methot, I think they should have accepted a pick then drafted Wideman who is a right handed shot D-man... HE can chip in least 3-5 goals even in limited use, possible upside or other uses over what Methot gave them besides alienating Ottawa taking him.

2. Turris was probably a better option for them than say Evander Kane or what would cost to get Duche outright instead of in a 3 way deal... He probably can score 20-30 goals but his contract is the highest on the team now besides a few like Flip Forsberg, PK Subban, Rinne, and 8M player Johansson or whatever his name . I don't think Rinne gave them a chance to win least 3 of those SCF games way he played. They have had injuries to goalie or inconsistent play so don't really have much faith in them. Though them trying to win now is smart for where the franchise is at so might as well roll the dice. Down the line it might cost them though, for now they can handle it without to much trouble replacing Neal isn't easy...

3. I think Avalanche should ship Varly roll with Bernier and Hammond... HE least has shown he can get hot or go on a really nice run. Don't think he is any worse than Pickard, maybe an upgrade depending on his streak of play. My problem is the Tampa pick taking Garrison, Kristers would have been a better option who did well for Latvia vs. Canada in like Olympics 2-1 loss or so. He might not have the best numbers in minors, though neither did Dansk but he did pretty well when called up. Berube they took when had better options than what decided to do with Islanders so should have least kept him for some depth at that point. I don't think they would put in the Kamloops player unless there was an injury to Lag...

I can't really complain about them passing on goalie from CBJ since Karhllson or whatever his name has done really well for them . I had to watch a short version of their draft again... NOsek was odd he had a nice run in AHL Post Season so they went with him over Mrazek who people claim has an attitude etc... Sometimes a player just needs to change teams to get himself going again etc... Problem is GMs want to find these players that never heard of to make their mark or claim the credit. You know things are bad when have to retain salary when trade Emelin instead of taking a better option from Montreal for example .

Turris probably has an easier time getting fantasy points with style Nashville plays over Senators that many seem to complain about . Odd how this happens right before teams play each other over seas, yet nothing is scripted they claim ? I don't think Nashville would have made Post Season if they didn't do this deal though... So for them it was probably more important to get done, Senators would have done fine with Turris getting in top 8 in East. Just glad the saga is finally over so don't have to see or hear about this everyday haha .

Ottawa Should Be Automatically Locked In Playoffs They Got Matt Duchne From Colorado In Their Lineup

Looking back, you were absolutely right.



It's funny how this trade changed. NSH side of things looks atrocious right now.

Yeah. It was bad for Ottawa at the time it happened, but then it became much worse after the Senators fell off a cliff.