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ChowYunFat

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Forum: Armchair-GMMay 17, 2019 at 3:59 a.m.
Forum: Armchair-GMNov. 17, 2018 at 11:22 p.m.
Thread: If the Big 3 wanna win together theyll take these contracts
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CaptJosef</b></div><div>This isn't a Nylander specific think though. You can say it about every player. Matthews should sign for Crosby money, Marner should sign for Gaudreau money. Tavares should have signed for Kucherov money, etc... If any player wants to win they should take less cap. You can't blame Nylander for wanting to get the maximum value for his prime years. At the end of the day there are teams in the league that would pay him what he's asking because they see it as value. Elite players are paid more than $7.5m these days.</div></div>

If you're arguing that Nylander is an elite player right now, I'm stunned.

How about this? Nylander sits out the rest of the season as it was reported the Leafs are okay with that re Chris Johnston. Then for 2019-2020, he signs a 1-year $5M dollar contract with the condition that if he puts up 80 points, he gets a $7.75M contract.

If only this league had player options, since players would then be okay with taking less money for lower term to prove themselves.

By the way, trading Nylander to someone like Carolina or the Kings is still an option. Those are two markets willing to pay Nylander $7M+. The Rangers would be cool, since his dad played there for a while with Jagr, Lundqvist and Straka. Speaking of Michael, who believes he's behind all this?
Forum: Armchair-GMNov. 17, 2018 at 3:45 a.m.
Thread: If the Big 3 wanna win together theyll take these contracts
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>LoganOllivier</b></div><div>You really should stop my friend, you just compared Nylander to David Clarkson. Do you honestly think that Nylander is going to regress and be a worse player than he has been, keep in mind he's 22 and has shown potential that suggests he could become an elite player. JVR makes 7 million, Nylander is better and he's only going to continue to get better.

What I am doing to is trying to understand the players mind because after all he's a person who has a life to live. He has certain motivations many of which you and I know nothing about. But if you understand the player common ground can be found. The alternative is to get emotional and tell the player that he's being selfish and to demand he steps in line because its what a good drone will do. I wouldn't respond to the latter in a positive way. Do you think his teammates will appreciate that they are all just seen as drones in a machine? This is a sport and a business yes, but if you don't have good people trying to earn trust and loyalty from your employees and players, you aren't going to find much success.</div></div>

I think you're just reading what you want to read and drawing your conclusions from there. I never compared David Clarkson to William Nylander. I instead made the case that the Toronto Maple Leafs have a tendency to sign long-term deals with players who show a flash of success, then regress for some reason or another. For Clarkson, it was an overreaction to one satisfactory season. This tendency to sign albatross contracts has made Kyle Dubas cautious, someone who has a difficult job to do that people like you tend to gloss over, and rightfully so.

Nylander has not proven that he is an elite hockey player, only shown to have the potential. The difference between $6.5M and $7.5M over 6-8 years certainly adds up, but is insignificant when the ultimate goal of winning a Stanley Cup is considered. If the main goal for a hockey player is to make money, they've already failed due to the sport they've chosen, as the other three major sports pay leagues above what the NHL offers its players.

What I'm trying to bring to light is the hypocrisy by players who want to win as a team without being team players, like William Nylander has been during his contract arbitration. He says he wants to win in Toronto but won't take half a million or one million dollars less to do so. If Nylander signs for $6.5M, this will set a precedent to the other potential superstar players due for a payday that their personal desires do not come before the team's goal of winning the Stanley Cup. Never mind being a business, the Toronto Maple Leafs want to win a Stanley Cup arguably more than any other franchise, and if players want to be part of a dedicated franchise, they have to be dedicated to the franchise.
Forum: Armchair-GMNov. 16, 2018 at 10:43 p.m.
Thread: If the Big 3 wanna win together theyll take these contracts
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>LoganOllivier</b></div><div>Marner, Matthews and Nylander are all star players, they deserve the big bucks the rest of the team can fall in line. You don't alienate your stars that's just dumb. He won't get 8 but he doesn't want to sign for less than he's worth and TO hasn't come up from their price of around 6 apparently give it a week and the sides will be closer since TO will be able to offer more on a longer term.</div></div>

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CaptJosef</b></div><div>The thing you keep ignoring is that the Gaudreau deal is a steal. Thus his 9.5% cap hit represented a win for the Flames. Probably a reasonable deal at the time was probably in the $7. 5m range. That would be $8.2m in today's money. Not to mention that you're paying Nylander to get better. If you think he's never gonna be more than a 60-65 point player then you absolutely should trade him. He's 22, it's highly unlikely he's reached his peak yet.</div></div>

You both keep only looking at this from the player's perspective, which makes you both the ignorant ones. Imagine a scenario where Nylander doesn't take the paycut he's required to to stay on this team and just waits for the Leafs to make the cap space necessary to sign him at at least $7M. This will mean that he'll be a year older and a year removed from NHL ice. If he gets signed to a 6-7 year deal at the minimum caphit he wants, which seems to be around $7.5, and he doesn't produce at the level he did as a younger player, his contract will immediately be panned and quoted as an albatross, which is something the Leafs know a lot about. Clarkson was an albatross, Lupul was an albatross, Phaneuf while being on the Senators, was signed by the Leafs to an albatross, Gardiner is an albatross. This franchise has dealt with albatross contracts since the salary cap era began because they were never able to adjust under the leadership of guys like JFJ, Burke and Nonis. The player deserves the money for the results he's created, not the potential result he can create maybe if he gets better maybe.
Forum: Armchair-GMNov. 16, 2018 at 4:55 a.m.
Thread: If the Big 3 wanna win together theyll take these contracts
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CaptJosef</b></div><div>You can't actually tell me the Gaudreau contract is par for the course. It's an absolute steal for the Flames and a huge outlier in terms of point per cap hit dollar for a player on a long term deal. Also that deal was 9.5% of the cap at the time. That's $7.55m in todays cap. $7-8m would be fair for Nylander, not a steal and not an overpayment, just fair.</div></div>

It's called players focusing on winning more than a half million dollars more than what they should be getting. Plus, if Gaudreau's adjusted caphit were to be $7.55M, Nylander still doesn't deserve greater or equal to $7M. Gaudreau scored 78 points while Nylander hasn't cracked 62, and won't have a chance to crack 62 until his fifth season in the NHL. Cry me a river, but Nylander is not important enough for ~10% of the cap. Look what the Leafs are doing without him. They don't need him to win a cup; he needs them to win a cup. He doesn't have the leverage to ask for &gt;= $7M, at least not with the Leafs. A more desperate team will pay that price, because they're desperate. Just like how the Oilers were desperate to sign Draisaitl and Lucic, and signed them to those ridiculous contract, the latter more ridiculous than the former.