Jun 6, 2019
2nd Favourite Team
Vegas Golden Knights
Jul 12, 1990
Posts per Day
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>SlickWilly</b></div><div>So the scenario envisioned brings up something my dad thought of a couple years ago when it looked as if Toews might be slowing down. A similar thing happened with the Flyers, where it looked as if Giroux was starting to slow down a little bit, they still had him take the faceoffs, but they gave him winger duties but still had him take faceoffs. As Toews is the big faceoff guy, that is something I could see them pairing him with Dach if he never gets too great at faceoffs, and then have Toews essentially take over winger duties after the faceoff</div></div>
Ahhhh, I do remember when it was looking like that for giroux. However, here’s the flaw I see with that idea: if you don’t ever throw dach into the fire (the faceoff fire that is), dach will never improve. Now, as long as I played hockey and been a fan, those who are bad at faceoffs when they’re drafted only (tops) get marginally better. Otherwise, if you’re bad, you usually stay pretty bad. So that is one flaw I see in this solution. Another flaw I see, unfortunately, is toews is far older than giroux was at that time. Let’s say this does happen, and toews plays faceoffs and then goes to wing immediately. Toews is old enough that is only a reasonable idea for another few years tops. Maybe even a year or two at his rate of regression. The downside is kind of two fold. One is that Dach never gets time to learn faceoffs while he is young and developing. The other is that Dach continues to look like he should just be a winger, and I know for a fact Stan didn’t plan to waste a third pick on a center who can only play wing, CUZ THAT WILL get him fired.
Ya see, all of these points are the reason I still believe dach isn’t nhl ready. He really should be in juniors. He isn’t helping the team in his current role and all you’re doing is wasting a year off his ELC and making the salary cap a bigger problem. This is why I said it was a mistake to take him, Stan and the rest of the organization had absolutely no idea how to develop this kid the proper way. Yes, it’s still early, but nothing in the way he plays has blown me away. He broke Eichel’s ankles? No, not really, if anything eichel deflected a puck for him and then was flat out lazy letting dach skate by him. But no, I’m still not impressed by dach, mainly cuz he doesn’t come off (at nhl level) as a player who influences and controls games. Essentially, he needs other teammates to do that for him and open the game up for him. Turcotte isn’t like that, neither is byram. Hughes may be having a tough beginning to his career, but his style of play is such that you always know he’s there. If I didn’t know any better and saw him on the roster. I would have never guessed dach in any of the last 3 games. That’s not a good sign for a number 3 pick.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>SlickWilly</b></div><div>Yeah although I am not gonna **** on Dach, and he is going to be a spectacular player one day, I really do think Turcotte was the way to go. I may be a little biased as I got to Wisconsin so I get to see him play which was one of my reasons for wanting him, the Hawks are SO ****ING SLOW. Turcotte has some nice wheels, the only real difference between turcotte and dach is the Turcotte has the speed, Dach has the hands. They both play hard in every other respect and are both going to be good players, but in my opinion because he doesn't have the top end speed, Dach kind of caps out at a really great 2C (which if we get another high draft pick we might be able to get a 1C) but with the 3rd overall you aren't really looking for that.</div></div>
Well, I will say, just in my opinion, turcotte will always work harder than dach. I’m sure dach will have a good career, but I do agree with you that he’s got the better hands. Turcotte, though, just plays a better all around game with more upside. Dach, as a two way player, may get 60 points a season at some point, maybe. However, turcotte, as a two way player, could get 80-90 a season. He’s just so tenacious. He never stops, and in all honestly, this brings up a thing i dislike about bigger players. Players like turcotte who have always been on the smaller side are always taught to work harder and use their body to the best of their abilities and always be faster. Bigger players, on the other hand, are used to just being a more dominate presence on the ice at younger ages. As they get older, the faster players start to catch up and eventually eclipse them. Point is, I can’t fathom a scenario where dach is better than turcotte. Turcotte just doesn’t let himself stop and is driven by pure determination. Dach still looks too lazy to me in all honesty.
However, you did bring up an interesting thought. You said maybe we could get a 1C in this upcoming draft. Now that is certainly a possibility. However, here’s the problem with that scenario. If you choose a 1C, which other center do you trade? Do you trade toews? Probably not, he’s never waive a no trade and he’s the captain. How about dach? At this point, people could still give a huge return for him maybe? Obviously no, I’d love to see it but he’s our future and we’re stuck with him. How about strome then? We got him back to where he should have been. Honestly, probably could happen. Ya see, strome and dach are very identical physically. Both are big, slow players who don’t like to use their bodies very much. I hate to admit that but that’s the truth. As you said, we are SLOW!! As such, we probably have the slowest center core in the league (at least one of them). Here’s the problem with trading strome though, dach has proved many times this year he doesn’t know how to play with Kane or debrincat yet. So, why would you trade strome? Dach has only thrived with the fourth line, which to me is genuinely concerning. As such, trading strome would probably only happen if the team went into a full rebuild. So, bringing it back to the original point, drafting a 1C in this upcoming draft probably raises more questions about the team than it answers.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CrazyK04</b></div><div>I'm just a 15 year old kid, but I am a massive Hawks fan and am obsessed with hockey. It might be weird since I am so young, but I love Power Forwards. I love that gritty style of play. Evgeni Malkin is one of my favorite players in the NHL because he hits, he can play defense, and he is wicked offensively. I like Dach. I think he can do more as an all around player. He's never gonna get Crosby type points but I can see him as the next Toews if he can improve his defense. 50-65 points would be great for him.</div></div>
Love to hear it! You definitely are seeing the hawks through the best time in their franchise’s history.
Now, here’s the interesting thing about power forwards. Power forwards, and maybe this is how I classify/interpret them, but I don’t know if I view Malkin as such a player. As crazy as it sounds, I’m not so sure dach is either. Typically, A power forward usually describes any bigger, stronger player that can both score and be very physical at the same time. Essentially, lots of goals/assists and plenty of hits.
With that in mind, I’d honestly classify malkin and dach as just bigger playmakers. Neither player can nor even chooses to hit very often. In Malkin’s case, though, he is a generational talent. He’s won scoring titles, mvp awards, a conn Smythe, and generally averages over 80 points a season and has 100 points many times. Also, he can skate like a machine for a guy who’s 6’3’’!! On the flip side, there is dach’s case. Dach is supposedly a two way center. I only say supposedly because I don’t quite see the two way player or the center yet. He has a long career to prove it though. However, he isn’t exactly capable of being an 80-100 point player as you mentioned. He’s much more likely to become a toews type player like you also said.
I’ll be honest, though, I don’t and never have liked power forwards. Malkin is a great player, and he’s the very rare combination of size and speed. Dach doesn’t have his kind of qualities. As I said in one of my responses, dach was the panic pick because he was ready now, but not necessarily the right pick. If you wanted a center this bad, which still baffles me with how bad the defense is, turcotte was an easy choice for the future. Turcotte is fast, a two way threat at all times, can pass, shoot, has amazing hands, and is super aggressive. He and his father were dead set on him going to college, which probably cost him a chance at being a hawks player, but in two years time, he is gonna be sick.
Point I’m making, I love speed. I can’t stand big guys who can’t skate, that’s just not the way the game is played anymore. The game is always getting faster and dach doesn’t seem to be able to keep up. Turcotte can, and I honestly can’t wait to see him play in a year or two. Here’s the thing that’s craziest: turcotte may actually be a better all around player than dach in a few years and score even more points. He is built like Crosby and plays with the same offensive flair and defensive responsibility as him. I just really wanna have a center on the hawks who can actually score 80-90 points a season again. I miss those days. Dach doesn’t seem like that guy.
Thank you for your thoughts buddy! Love hearing from dedicated hawks fans on this site. Hope things can get better for this team soon.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>SlickWilly</b></div><div>You kind of contradict yourself with a lot of the things you say here... Im going to start off by saying that the only bad trade was the Joki-Nylander trade, everything else can be defended and was made backed by pretty sound logic. Dach was the only center available that was going to be ready now, and going to be in the league now. See how none of the other players taken after Dach are in the NHL? So he was the only center that was going to be able to help us this season, and there was a reason that he was ranked the second best Skater in NA behind Hughes. You draft based on projectability. You don't judge an 18 year old rookie off of 20 games hes played. He clearly has somethings to work on, yes, but its actually ****ing stupid to say "oh yeah 20 games into his career he cant win a faceoff he has no place in the league this guy ****ing sucks" when the dude broke Eichels ankles twice in one game. There is clearly talent there, his hands are insane, and he plays hard in both ends of the ice. Dont doubt Mark Kelley (and the pick was his decision, not Bowmans by the way), the dude has made some solid picks over the years. The maatta trade was probably made before we knew De Haan was available for such a low price, and maatta was known to be on the market, so why not and go get a clear upgrade from Koekkoek and Dahlstrom when we know we have cap space to work with? We were able to trade Kahun because the front office was so confident in Kubaliks ability, and while he hasnt been as productive as Kahun, not being on a line with Crosby or Malkin will do that to you. You can't sit here and tell me Bowman didn't do a decent job this summer. He picked up 2 clear upgrades for our defence and landed Lehner, one of the best goalies in the league so far. The only person who can be to blame is Colliton, and even so, Colliton doesn't coach these guys to tell them to let 3 guys open in front of the net. Colliton doesn't coach them to let some guy free in front of the net on a slap shot from the point to be deflected without Lehner or Crow having a damn chance to save it. This laziness and mediocrity is purely on the players and you can't really give a strong argument otherwise. If you have even watched a single game you would have seen the laziness and the poor effort everyone but the 4th line gives, and it isn't particularly close. Sure Bowman isn't the right man for the job anymore, if the decision is to rebuild, because he doesn't have a long term future here. But to tell me he hasn't done anything in his power to get the best guys on the market without giving up a whole lot (again, minus the Jokiharju trade), is absolutely ludicrous.</div></div>
Fair response, like what you had to say in this body of thought. I start by saying, of course, everything I say is purely opinion based.
Having said that, remember that I did say in my rant, Stan did seem to try to fix things getting de haan and maatta. I’ll grant you that that wording is certainly not praise, but it is acknowledgement, which at this point is all I give the guy. However, what you said in your message unfortunately doesn’t really change much of what I was getting at. I loved what you had to say, as I do all other hawk fans, but how I’m looking at this summer isn’t a case finding help. Clearly, Stan did try, this much is true. However, it’s still a case of finding the WRONG help. Don’t forget that also said that the players are also accountable for the laziness, that includes maatta and de haan. I’m not saying that getting those two wasn’t probably (and most likely) the best we could do. I also mentioned in my rant that we clearly couldn’t trade for anyone or even find a top 2 dman in the UFA market. But these two “solutions” came from teams that maximized their abilities far better than we ever could. At least under the coach we have, that’s the point I’m trying to make.
However, my anger speaks not only to Colliton and bowman in general, but also to the clear lack of communication between the two in terms of putting a team together. Stan wanted to find fixes and he only managed maatta and de haan. Crazy as it sounds to say out loud, those actually were improvements! To this day that absolutely shocks me when I see how far we’ve fallen. This isn’t the point though. The point is, bowman has seen and known this problem for 2 and a half years now. How or why he hasn’t found solutions in that time, who knows. Cap problems? Yup. Old core on **** contracts? Yup. Garbage coach that he keeps giving rope to? You bet. However, each one of these things are problems made by bowman. Mark Kelley May have made the pick, but he can’t just circumvent Stan, so that belongs on Stan as much as him.
Speaking of the pick, I hate to be this guy, but no one is ever going to completely sell me on this kid. People can judge me for that, but my opinion on that is for a number of reasons. The most important being that Dach doesn’t fix or change anything. In fact, if you can, tell me what fixes. Picking him was purely to save Bowman’s own skin because he was gonna keep him in the nhl no matter what. And by the way, it wasn’t a great choice, he needed to learn to play against guys better his own age. But that’s neither here nor there. Then there’s byram, the future Keith. Who knows if he hits that projection. What I do know is that number one dmen don’t come along in drafts often, not even projection wise. You coulda had him, and then picked a center in next years ridiculously stacked draft. Instead, you got a kid the team doesn’t really know how to develop completely cuz you’ve never had a guy of his archetype. I agree he may be good one day, and if he does more power to him.
I am glad you brought up people after him not being in the NHL, cuz I love when people do that. First thing I’ll say is this, or rather ask: why did we need the guy ready now? I’m seriously asking btw. Why now? Why couldn’t it be two years down the road? As long as it followed a process. This team is so stuck in neutral that they say **** development, we want you now. So they went with the easy pick and took dach. Now, byram to start with. Why is byram in the WHL this season? Cuz Colorado is so stacked on defense they didn’t need to rush his development. Plain and simple, and possibly the easiest answer of em all. Turcotte (whom I have watched and adore), chose to go to college. It didn’t matter if he blew everyone away at kings camp, even his father made him to college, and now he’s killing it in wisconsin. Nuff said. Don’t forget, Cale makar was offered a pro spot after his freshman year and chose to go back. A hobey baker and a sick start to a pro career later, what do you think? Smart I’d say. Cole Caufield. Undersized and in need of body maturing. No worries, college can do that, no need to rush. Now he’s killing with turcotte at Wisconsin. The list goes on and on buddy. I seriously don’t get the argument that Dach is better simply cuz he’s here still. He’s not here cuz he should be, he’s here cuz the hawks are at their lowest and they’re desperate. Byram and turcotte are probably going to set the world on fire when they get here (who knows?) because their teams understood development is a process. So no, I don’t like the dach pick, I don’t like how they’re developing him, and I don’t think he’s even close to the level the other top 5 players are. However, that is my opinion, and just an opinion. What he fixes I’ll never know, and being that he’s only effective on the fourth line, I may not understand for the rest of the season. Just my opinion, but I genuinely think doesn’t know what’s best for the hawks’ long term future. He only thinks of how to save himself short term, but no thought to long term.
One more really quick thing: did anyone really think this team, going into the year, was a playoff team? Due respect but I sure didn’t. So what do we get in next years draft with the lottery pick? We’re stuck with dach, but we coulda had a better center this year. Also, I ask again, how does dach help this team? Turcotte is fast, has killer vision, can shoot and pass, and never stops skating. Pure aggression. Based on your point about drafting on projections, I’d take that every day over dach’s 2C ceiling.
Thanks for the thoughts, really do enjoy other insights.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>exo2769</b></div><div>I wouldn't have had any issues with Dach being in the WHL. I also like your analysis about keeping him on the bottom 6. Strome needs to come back, but Dach does seem to be playing better down that vs with Kane. That's not a knock on anyone...just need to look at where/how he's producing and developing. Stan's far from all knowing. He's also still learning about Dach and hopefully helping build this team for the future. I see were talking about Bowen Byram again...so let's also keep in mind that it's not like Byram's mopping the floor with people down there. Being sub ppg in the minors and allowing more goals than last year can't be how he drew up his season after the playoffs he had last year. I know it's not even half way through their season so far, but pretty clear regression both offensively and defensively. Not at all saying he'll end up being a bad player. I still think he'll be a fine NHLer...just trying to keep things in perspective.</div></div>
I agree with your analysis of byram, it has been a tougher season. However, the flip to that analysis is looking closer at the giants themselves. The giants team is not the same team as it was last year. Far worse and byram is their greatest asset by far. Teams go in knowing exactly who to shut down. Essentially, the giants are what dach’s blades were last year.
Where byram and dach truly differ though is their pro teams. Byram can step into the Avs and absolutely be fine and adapt at a nice pace. That speaks to their coaching and playing style, which gives artistic freedom to their dmen. Dach is on the opposite side of that spectrum. I said this way back at the draft, but another big reason I didn’t like dach is because he isn’t a “Blackhawks Type.” What I mean is that in the past 12 years, we haven’t had a guy like him and have almost avoided guys like him. Big and slower just wasn’t the mantra of the hawks way. So when we drafted him, all I thought was this kid is in the worst place to develop as a player. The playing style is terrible for him. The players around him don’t emphasize his playing style (save for the 4th line). Finally, the coach is just plain bad, and I imagine he’s even worse for a kid’s development.
Don’t forget, byram’s comparable was Keith. We need a number one dman and we need it fast. Much faster than we needed a new center (which he doesn’t even look like he can play). None of our d prospects project as a number one. Boqvist is closest and he’ll be top 2 hopefully. Dach is just in the wrong place at the worst time though.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ChiHawk</b></div><div>Yeah not a chance, he's the #3OA and playing a full rookie season.</div></div>
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>RichardAvs</b></div><div>Dach for Rosen/O’Connor and a 2nd</div></div>
I know it goes without saying that the counter offer wouldn’t happen, but a question can be asked: Does it really matter that Dach is still around this season? Seriously, who cares! The hawks were straight up desperate. Not to take away from dach’s skill level, but him being here doesn’t say anything about his value. He should be in the W right now, but he was drafted by the wrong team. Avs take him, he’s easily in the W. Kings take him, sure he’s on the team probably, but only cuz they’re in as bad a shape as we are.
Sorry for the outburst, but Jesus people, dach being here isn’t a case of he should be, it’s a case of the hawks being desperate for something they didn’t need this season. I only hope it doesn’t **** with his head. He’s only good when he plays with fourth liners who push the play for and he does nothing with Kane and debrincat. Sure he needs time, but that shoulda been spent in the W. Hawks are just a mess, and yes, we really do suck right now.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ChiHawk</b></div><div>Yeah not a chance, he's the #3OA and playing a full rookie season.</div></div>
But let’s be honest, it’s exactly like he should have. It’s like byram’s case. Byram is in the W not because he wasn’t good enough, but because the Avs didn’t need him now. The hawks, on the other hand, are so desperate that they needed him now and said screw any development with players his own age.
We are so screwed against Colorado for the next decade.......
I get the lehner/Dzingel problem, definitely okay with 1st and a 3rd. Buffalo trade is simply writing a wrong, just like the Avs trade. Purely correctional history.
As for seabs, I could care less. If the Eriksson trade doesn’t work, I’d buy him out, his dead cap hit is worth more than him in the modern nhl landscape. So either take the trade and prove your worth something somewhere else, or get the insult of a buy out and then prove your worth.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>exo2769</b></div><div>My honest response is...not this year...hence this post actually. Get as many picks for your UFAs as you can. These trades also set up for the future. The CAR trade makes is really expensive if they extend Lehner. There aren't too many other teams out there looking for a #1 goalie...that can pay #1 goalie money. CHI and DET by my last look.
If we can get more picks...and maybe they even end up being decent picks...who knows. VAN was seriously close to swapping the #3 Plus Seabs for the #10 last year! Go to Seabs and VAN and try it again. We complain about Seabs play, but truly...is his play worse than last year...NO. Give him 17 min ATOI and now his hits, blocked shots, PDO, +/-, Giveaways, takeaways, etc... all trending in a better direction. The only reason his Corsi is dropping is because he's getting more Dzone starts...which he should be getting more Dzone starts. He actually has NHL caliber players next to him. He seriously didn't have than for 45% of last season.
Shed Zach Smith and that's $7M+$3M...and extra $10M to use. Teams can have 1 overpaid contract, but 2 or 3 is hard. If they get the extra cap space...who knows???
BUT to summarize. I do agree with you. It's kinda why this team was made. I don't see them being serious contenders until the cap is managed a little better and they get a reliable #1 or #2 Dman.</div></div>
We’re only half way through this game with the Avs and all I can think is, “sorry boys, rebuild time.” I get the love for de haan, he can be solid. But in this defensive scheme he is just not utilized well. As for lehner and crow, I did say earlier this season is the defense didn’t step up they’d give goals eventually. Exhibit A and B are last night and tonight. I respect that everyone “thinks” the hawks made themselves tougher, but under no circumstances are they harder to play against. Speed is absolutely killing them and all the grit and hitting in the world still doesn’t mean a thing if you can’t keep up with the other team. Dach could be good, who knows, but while he just remains a big body with hands, defenders like Cale makar and Bowen byram are just gonna be faster and laugh at him.
In conclusion, I love my hawks, but this team is embarrassing. We gotta stop pretending like retooling is the answer, it’s not. We have got to find some players who play with passion, drive, and SPEED! This isn’t a single player on this team outside Kane that is safely on the roster in opinion, bar none. We better hope our defensive prospects actually work out, cuz this Avs game, that’s what Colorado is gonna do for the next 10 years.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>exo2769</b></div><div><a href="/users/HatterTParty" target="_blank">@HatterTParty</a> The thing is...A lot of what you bring up doesn't have much to do with Stan at all though. I can site here and say Q is currently the best coach in the game and mean it. (I do for the record believe that) I can also say Stan's done a good job himself. Those comments are not linked. The only thing that gets linked is team success..and who needs a fall guy. Q was fired by John McDonough and Rocky Wirtz. YES, I understand that Stan and Q didn't get along great, but SO FREAKIN WHAT?! That's the point of upper management. John and Rocky could have just as easily fired Stan, BUT you know better than anyone...over the years Q's brought in "his guys" (Jamie Compon, Kevin Dineen, Mike Kitchen heck Kitchen is still his assistant in FLA) which is 100% fine! It's just when there's a carousel of "your guys" coming in and not fixing the problem...you're the fall guy. The situation is far more likely that no change was needed at all, but rather years and years of going for it @ the TDL making trades (that Q wanted too...cough cough Andrew Ladd...cough cough) like every team does depletes your farm system which happened.
This is a good transition to that Ladd Trade you referred to. The Hawks were firmly in Cup Contention. I mean, how could they not be? They were the reigning cup winners. I have ZERO problem with Stan trying to win another cup while the window is open. Everyone in the entire organization wanted him to make a move...yes even Q.
He's claiming it's a retool because he'll get fired if he doesn't. Rocky is a penny pincher and needs to sell tickets. Publicly saying that we're tearing this thing down while Toews/Kane are still on the team...while Debrincat/Strome are under just got into bars a few months ago...while we have young prospects ready to come into the NHL...would be a bad move. What would we be tearing down for anyway? Another 3rd OA pick. We got (3) of those all at various ages. In the end this is a business and Rocky needs to sell tickets.
I'm a believe in a retool. It's nice to have DeHaan, but in all seriousness...they don't have a #1Dman. Keith is at best a #2. Matta/DeHaan/Murphy are all good middle to bottom pair guys, but Where's the John Carlson, Victor Hedman, Brent Burns, etc... They don't have him anymore and it's hard to get one when Seabrook has $7M along with Toews/Kane getting $21M.
I agree that Stan's fault is extending his own players. Seabs, Bickell, Panik, etc... But he has gotten better at that. Gus for $1.2M is 1 example. I'd also say that he brings an element most GMs don't have. You bring up Panarin, but that's only because Stan stuck to his word and allowed Panarin to get his Schedule B bonus. Yes...it was on the 82nd game of the year firmly in the playoffs... That takes guts, but that also pays dividends. Guys like Kahun, Kampf, Kubalik, Kempny, Rutta, Wedin, and yes...even...Panarin. All CHOSE to come to Chicago. Not all of them when Q was here either. Yes, most of that due to the players, but part of that because if you sign your bonuses...you'll get a shot at them.
Again, I wouldn't have fired either of these guys. Going for it year after year is tough on a farm system, but we're at where we're at. I still wouldn't fire Stan...yet...he's made too many good moves recently.</div></div>
Gotta say, I do love what you have to say. It is all very true and speaks to other issues at work with moves that were made.
That being said, the only question I have in response to your argument is: is it actually possible to make this team compete again when all we’re gonna do is retool? You argue that rocky needs to sell tickets and by proxy Stan can’t say “rebuild” cuz he’d be fired. As far as I’m concerned then, this team will never compete for a cup till Kane and toews retire. By then, years of debrincat and strome are wasted. Along with boqvist, beaudin, Mitchell, and dach. Dach could have a decent career in the NHL, who knows? But he’s not winning or even helping to win a Stanley cup with this team. This core is garbage now. De Haan is all well and good, but besides Keith and Murphy, he doesn’t have anything to work with. Not to mention our defense can’t skate or move the puck. Retooling is just patching holes on sinking ship hoping to get to port before the whole thing goes down.
So again, I ask, is it really possible for this to compete if all we do is retool?
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>exo2769</b></div><div><a href="/users/Stan_Bowman" target="_blank">@Stan_Bowman</a> I agree, it's just that there aren't that many Goalie trades to compare. Figured that an earnout policy might be in order. Maybe an easier earn out?
<a href="/users/HatterTParty" target="_blank">@HatterTParty</a> The hard part is...what's the last definitely bad move Stan's made? Some (maybe you?) might argue Dach, but that's hard to argue right now. All the rookies are showing that...they're rookies. Some may argue Joki, but Nylander's doing better than I had predicted. DeHaan was a GREAT trade. Lehner an Outstanding Signing. Carpenter is a great signing, Kampf, Kubalik...these are all good moves. It's almost impossible to say he hasn't done a good job. I'd even argue that he's done a GREAT job lately. I don't see him getting fired.
<a href="/users/Jzoni10" target="_blank">@Jzoni10</a> Maybe the AZ trade is a bit rich. I do think Chayka would like Sikura, but it can still be too rich a deal. Where would Lehner go next year? It boils down to only 2-4 teams that need a starting goalie. CAR, DET, CHI...probably 1 more, but if you place an extension limiter in the trade...then it's between CHI and DET. If he liked him time here he may be inclined to sign back with CHI anyway.</div></div>
In all honesty, I know this idea splits a lot of fans, but to me it’s an amalgamation of the last five or so years. I’ll try to fit in as much information as I can think up.
Trades: Stan signed bickell to a 4 mil per deal that was instantly terrible. He offloaded him finally by having to give up teravanen. That one really hurt. Early that same year (2016), he gave up a first rounder and a prospect for a washed up rental of Andrew Ladd that failed miserably. He also traded Phillip danault that season too. He found out the hard way hammer was irreplaceable. I cannot, to this day, condone the joki trade. I don’t care how nylander is playing, the trade just had zero logic to it, especially considering how bad our defense is at moving the puck, just saying. Finally, the best for last, panarin for saad. Many people say Stan needed to for the cap. Sorry, but I’m calling bull****. Panarin has just signed a two year bridge deal. If Stan was worth his salt as a GM in the NHL, two years woulda been more than enough time to move pieces around a GENERATIONAL talent. Nuff said.
Coaching: he fired Coach Q. Joel Quennville. 2nd all time in wins. Three cups. Jack Adams winner. See where I’m going with that? His replacement? A yes man, inexperienced AHL coach in Jeremy Colliton. Let’s all be honest, Colliton is Bowman’s fall guy in case the team sucks. But why did he fire Q? Cuz Q wasn’t getting results right? I ****ing dare Scotty bowman to come out of retirement and coach those17-18 and 18-19 teams. They were disgraceful and all because of the moves that Stan made. Q’s coaching had nothing to do with how bad they were.
Time frame: Stan has claimed time and time again, this is a retool. Why? I’m genuinely asking why. What is their foundation? Kane? Of course. Toews? I guess so. Keith? Nope. Seabrook? Nope. Debrincat? Hopefully continues to thrive. Strome? As long as someone is carrying him along. This team is a shell of its former self and out of some bull**** feeling of obligation to Kane and toews, Stan keeps trying to just retool. I’m really sorry to feel this way, but this team needs a full rebuild. At least that way, it’ll feel like the team has a direction. Stan has had this team in neutral for the last 4-5 years.
I only hope that us missing the playoffs again this year finally puts the nail in the coffin for Stan. I don’t trust his judgement at all anymore. No one in Chicago should. Colliton is just a joke of a coach at this point too. Kane and toews just need to accept the window is closed, so stop fighting it! Just build for a better future already! Bowman and Colliton need to go first, then we can find a direction.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Stan_Bowman</b></div><div>Just admit it, the only reason the penguins have a franchise is because of Lemieux saving the team... two times.</div></div>
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>PenGoater99</b></div><div>Imagine thinking the Blackhawks had fans prior to 2010</div></div>
Okay, I just gotta say, the ridiculousness of these statements are fantastic! Not that they don't have some basis of fact of course, but lets break this down.
Hawks not having fans before 2010?! Try 2008, that's a little closer. Having said that, from 1998-2008, yup, we didn't have **** going for us and the fans turned on the disgrace of an owner as opposed to the team itself. I was able to go to nearly 50 games in those 10 years. I still powered through for my hawks. Before 1998, though, no offense Pens fan, but you really don't know anything. Chicago Stadium, night in and night out, the greatest roar in NHL history.
As for Stan's statement, lets put even more emphasis on this. Pens join the league in 1967. They proceed to suck for 17 straight years. I believe they made the playoffs 2-4 times, but did nothing of note. They were on the verge of relocation come 1984. Then, out of nowhere, Le Magnifique (the luckiest 1st overall pick ever) arrives in Pittsburgh to save the franchise. Oh and don't forget, the fans hated this team! Fast forward to 1997. Pens have two cups, Super Mario is a legend that just retired (the first time), and had a host of legends that featured Jagr, Francis, Barrasso, and others. However, **** ownership and free spending ways cause the money to dry up and players to go unpaid. Players are traded, the team tanks, and low and behold, the fans hate this team again and they are on the verge of relocating AGAIN! Then, Super Mario saves the day and buys the team with a consortium behind him. They have a brief resurgence after Mario returns and then promptly fall off a cliff AGAIN! Then, for the second time in their history, the team is saved by the 2nd luckiest 1st overall ever. Sid the kid arrives on the scene, but not without help. Remember, this team sucks after all. They get Fleury, Malkin, Crosby, and Staal in consecutive drafts to form their 2009 Cup backbone. Since then, the fans have luckily remained, but don't suck again, cuz then your probably gone again.
Point I'm trying to make is this: yes, Hawks fans were absent for ten years due to a **** team, **** management, and an owner who hated his own fans. However, for anyone to suggest that the Hawks, an original six franchise, didn't have fans before 2010, that's the sign of complete ignorance. Even if it was a joke, don't think someone wouldn't correct you.
On the flip side, the Penguins, factually and historically, are the LUCKIEST franchise in NHL history. They were up for relocation twice, were gifted the two greatest number one overall picks ever (McDavid will soon join said argument), and don't even try to plead ignorance and say your fans endured through all that, cuz I know they didn't. If nothing else, congrats on being **** at the perfect times! That's a freakin art form and a sign of clairvoyance my friend!!!!