Jun 6, 2019
2nd Favourite Team
Vegas Golden Knights
Jul 12, 1990
Posts per Day
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>F50marco</b></div><div>Really? Why?</div></div>
Honestly, for the reason I mentioned in the sentence before that. Bowman has proved time and time again he isn’t attached to first round picks, and has traded every single one from 2010-2017. Also, bowman isn’t exactly a guy knows how to BUILD a team. He’s good at adding around an already established core. So, realistically, yea, I could see Dach being traded “some day.” However, given how Dach is the chosen one in Bowman’s eyes and the kid who bowman staked his job on, it would have to be a hell of a trade or Dach will have to literally fall into the deepest of crevices.
All that being said, I have forced myself to accept that Dach will be a Blackhawk for a while. I don’t like his style of play or the fact that we took him at #3, but that’s Symantecs at this point. He will be a hawk, theoretically, for a while, but as I said, with bowman, you just never know.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>exo2769</b></div><div>Good Post. Good thoughts. If we're going to buyout someone, I'd suggest Zach Smith. $2M less this upcoming season year for an extra $1M worse the following??? Not terrible. Shaw, let's see what he wants to do for...really just his life situation. I'd understand if he wants to hang 'em up. I do think that would allow him to be LTIR'd. If Hossa's skin condition is allowable, continued concussions would be too...I'm guessing. DeHaan, similar situation. When he was on the ice, he was a solid contributor and I'd love to have him back if healthy.
You're 100% correct that Seabs is the real question. It's not a huge help (Cap Wise) to buy him out. Year over year the relief is $300k, $3.3M, $300k, $1.8M...Only $300k next year vs just playing him. I think the Hawks are going to keep riding him until his body fully breaks down. Then try to move his LTIR contract. I don't think they can move him now and Stan will likely be to afraid to trade away the pieces required because of Turbo/Bickell. Bickell just went to LTIR anyway. The other reason I think they go this route is because Seabs has been vocal that he still thinks he can play. Ok, go out and play your heart out. At least for this upcoming season. Then see what situation we're in next summer.</div></div>
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>DrumMan44</b></div><div>If you get a compliance buyout opportunity and you don't buyout Seabrook for whatever reason, Stan needs to be on the phone with other teams to see if he can take on a bad deal to buyout in exchange for picks / prospects. Don't waste it on Smith</div></div>
I actually was gonna point this out. Exo, it’s not a regular buyout, it’s a compliance buyout that’s being proposed. I’m really sorry, I actually realized that I didn’t make that clear in the first line of the subject. I don’t if that changes your answer, I just noticed you mentioned cap savings. So I wasn’t sure if I made clear it was a compliance buyout.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>exo2769</b></div><div>You're delusional my friend. 100% prisoner of the moment. "ONE GOAL" isnt making the playoffs. Its winning the cup. Go be a PIT fan. We dont need you. I'm honestly just tired on pointing out the obvious to you. You're name is 100% true. Hater all the way. F anyting else. I think you're actually Jay Mariotti who literally hates everything Chicago regardless of how many cups they won. You're trying to convince people 2 + 2 =5. Panarin wasn't taking...TWELVE AND A HALF MILLION less to stay with the Hawks. Kirby Dach is all I have to say. Go watch hockey.</div></div>
Lol, now there’s a response. First, it’s hatter, not hater, as in “mad as a,” ya get it. Are you sure your not a bowman burner account?
One goal is fine, that’s completely fine. But what’s Stan doing to get us to the cup? Never mind the playoffs by your logic. We don’t need you? How many people do you actually think are for keeping bowman and the rest of em? Just go ahead and say you don’t need us. I’ll not blind to the cups, this team is missing even the playoffs, just the playoffs, year after year with toews and Kane thriving! What obvious are you even pointing out?! I’m not blaming either one of the superstars for the state of the team.
Hate everything, F anything else? You are actually trying to tell people the penguins don’t have an excellent franchise after making 13 straight years of playoffs and three cups, two back to back. Who the hell is delusional?! I’ll be a hawks fan, but I’m a god damn realist. I HATE EVERYTHING ABOUT THE PENGUINS. Luckiest franchise in history to get lemieux and Crosby to save their franchise. Doesn’t change their last 13 years. Jesus Christ, you find more ways to justify missing the playoffs than anyone I’ve ever seen. Actually, check that, you actually justify it by saying their goal is the cup. ONE GOAL!
You finally made me snap on this one. Exo, you know what, you can say I hate (hater, not hatter) everything. I love this team and have seen them through those dark ages. Even if this is going into a new one, I’m still here. I don’t fans like you telling me I’m delusional. I respect your opinion, I really do, and I love that you have such monumental dedication to the team. You and I just have different expectations for the team in the present and the future. I don’t need to love every player (bickell being the biggest example). But I’m done trying to question what exactly your logic is on bowman, cuz I won’t get it. I respect it though. Now, as you told me, please, go watch some hockey. However, I say watch and enjoy. Hockey is for everyone and you opinion on it is no less valid than anyone else’s.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>exo2769</b></div><div>I totally appreciate the convo and do believe you knowledgeable Hawks fan. We just disagree on things is all. I do 100% believe getting assets for free is like having extra draft picks and is huge. These guys get to choose their destination and they choose Chicago. I really do believe that it's the culture created here. CHI didn't have to play Panarin on the 82nd game and it would have saved Bowman millions in cap due to his bonuses. But they did the right thing. Players see that stuff. If you're coming to the NHL and teams are willing to hand out Max bonuses....The Hawks have proven they'll let you get it if you're good enough.
Staying on Panarin. As much as I like him... "That's business baby" ~Artemi Panarin. He was never staying in CHI. People can talk ifs and butts all they want, but if anyone thinks he was actually going to sign for millions less (per year!) than the NYR offer...they're completely delusional. Could they have traded him away for something else? Ok maybe, I'm listening. There are always other options. We will unfortunately never know. It's kinda like the rumor that went around that CAR was willing to offer the 1st and Bean for Lehner and Gus. I VERY much doubt that's true...because it would have happened if it were. But we will never know for sure.
I would have fired John McDonough instead of Q, but that's me. There's more to upper management than Bowman.
And while Toews is my favorite player because of his style of play...Crosby is a real generational player. They're not really comparable anymore.</div></div>
I hate to keep going back to this, but bowman, quite simply, just hasn’t got this team back to the playoffs. He’s made a bad round of trades over three years, signed terrible contracts that doom the hawks to the will of the cap (summer 2018), and put an inexperienced fall guy behind the bench to blame any lack of success on.
Panarin could have, and definitely wanted to, stay. He constantly says that to anyone whenever the subject of Chicago is brought up to him. There’s no reason for him to lie about it. That trade is probably the worst in team history. There isn’t a single argument to be made about it anymore. Solid player vs. MVP candidate. Solid vs. MVP. Top six vs. ELITE. Cap excuses are simply that, excuses. You build your cap around panarin, you don’t fix it by trading him. Bowman had two years to figure out how to do that, but we all Bowman isn’t the caliber of GM able to pull that off. Then you throw in the nylander trade and nothing makes sense with this guy anymore. Nothing he’s done in the past three years moves the needle. Same with Dach, a 2C tops forced into future 1C time cuz Bowman was desperate. Fansided (what a joke that site is), keeps saying “Dach, boqvist, kubalik, debrincat, and strome will win a cup with the hawks, it’s just be nice if they did it soon.” Kick rocks! This group isn’t even close to a cup, especially with management run the way it is. There’s no accountability!!!! What has stan done lately? Has he gotten us to the playoffs? Has he gotten us total cap control back? No and no.
Exo, you have got to be the greatest and most blindly faithful hawks fan I’ve had the pleasure to debate with. You are through and through a fan who cares about the team no matter the state it’s in. However, I’m the kind of fan who always holds the team to a standard. They were the best of the best 2009-2015. Then, they didn’t adapt. They signed “loyalty” contracts, made **** trades because it was fun to get the band back together, and by then, it was all too late.
I’m not excited for the future of this franchise. Once toews and Kane are gone (more Kane actually), were just like Pittsburgh. At least Pittsburgh has always made the playoffs. None of the young guys on this team, even in five years, are enough to move the needle. I like boqvist, Mitchell, and cat, but come on, be realistic. As I said before though, knowing bowman, these guys won’t be here long. Trade Dach for Alex newhook Stan, then you got my attention.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>exo2769</b></div><div>I liked his comments to be perfectly honest. At a VERY VERY high level. Teams lose assets when they're going for the Cup. They trade 1st rounders away all the time. They won 3 cups and traded assets away in order to with the cup 6 straight years. What's PIT going to do in 5 years? They'll be a perennial last place team. Two summers ago was a very very bad summer. I was closer then, than I am now to canning him. This past summer has been pretty darn good! Signing Lehner and getting an assets for him...for nothing. Was it the absolute steal people were thinking, no, but year over year this is still a huge win. When you go June to June and turning nothing into a 2nd rounder...that's huge. The Hawks have 3 rookies in the top 13 in goals scored. They also played 2 rookie defenders against SJ their last game. That's literally 5 rookies on the ice. There has to be some room for progress there, no? Now's the time these rookies still need to work on their skills. Show the other guys in the locker room that you work and want to learn how to get better in the offseason. I look forward to seeing hockey next year.</div></div>
I am very sorry, in advance, for this response.
Respectfully, I can’t get my head the faith anymore. I love this team but it is absolutely a what have you done for me lately league. Bowman didn’t win us a cup in 2010, and all he did was add depth for 2013 and 2015. His accomplishments are a result of him sitting on the shoulders of people before him and calling himself tall.
Ya know what’s funny when people bring up Pittsburgh? They really don’t realize how better off they are than us in this moment. They haven’t missed playoffs since 2006! 2006!!!!!! Yet, people defend Bowman’s stupidity by saying, “Pittsburgh is screwed in five years?” Hey! At least they’ve never missed the playoffs since 2006! 3 cups!!! Same as hawks!!! Pittsburgh, with all intents and purposes, are far better than the hawks have been. Crosby and malkin always get to the playoffs. Why can’t Kane and toews? Are Kane and toews that much worse than Crosby and malkin? I mean, well, I have my opinion, I’ll say that. Or is it the team around Crosby and malkin? Well if that’s the case, good job JR. Stan Bowman is a joke compared to you. So bringing up Pittsburgh when they haven’t even declined yet is really not a good start.
One other thing, people gotta stop bringing up bowman apparently getting assets for players he got for free. That is getting to be the worst argument people can make for bowman. Why? Because the jackass still throws them away anyway. Panarin? Free player. Joki? Free player. Lehner? Free player. Tons more!!! Every one of them, traded for less than their worth! That’s how bad bowman is. He can’t even get a good return for these guys. But hey, it’s okay right? He got them for free right? Hey, here’s a thought. We got kubalik for a 5th, and dach and boqvist in the draft. Let’s trade all three of them and get three first round picks back. Supposedly future of the franchise players (save for Dach’s pansy ass), but hey, we got them for free. WIN WIN RIGHT?!?!
Bowman has wasted three years of prime and fans dedication. Exo, I respect your faith (be it blind or legit) in this guy, but I don’t know if anyone else can buy it anymore. This mess of a team, from player choices to coaching and personnel, are all on him. I feel bad for this fan base for having to deal with after years of success and setting a standard. People who say be happy with 3 cups can go to hell. I don’t need more cups, I need my team to have a direction that doesn’t steer into mediocrity.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Bluejackets2000</b></div><div>Definitely NOT the only method of substantial improvement.
Sell high on Kane & Toews.
Sell low on Seabrook and Keith, or buy them out
Rebuild, restock, & reload. It should't be a long drawn out process.
You have a very good new nucleus of players and a decent goaltender (I'm surprised you let Lehner go over Crawford since there is a 7 year age difference, and their numbers were very similar this year).
CBJ did this on the fly over the course of about 3 years, with a good core of drafted players, cutting loose aging vets...Nash, Tyutin, Hartnell, Johnson & Dubinsky (albeit LTIR for him).
Fear not the soft rebuild. You have assets that people want.
I realize they are all legacies and future hall of famer's.
It is just having the courage to unload them now rather than wait until they weight you down.
Biznezz is Biznezz.
For Keith & Seabrook, buy them a nice office in the Hockey Operations dept or give them a nice coaching, scouting, or color commentating job, retire their numbers.
And they'll be happy.</div></div>
I legitimately love everything about this comment.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ChiHawk</b></div><div>Cat - Strome - Kane is a defensive nightmare for us and exactly the type of line which puts way too much pressure on the 2 defensive players on the ice and the goalie. If you look at the advanced stats, that line, as much as they have had offensive production had the most goals against and then everyone complains about defensive issues which for this line is not the problem...it's the 3 forwards on that line together. Every line should have a defensive forward playing on it not 3 bad defensive forwards which is what they are.
The long term projection for Dach is to take over Toews's job. Strome is not that guy. That is why we drafted Dach and honestly, last year's draft was center heavy so it makes sense to find a guy that has the potential to replace Toews in 4 or 5 years. I'm sure the thinking was Dach and Strome can be the future 1C and 2C, but Toews is still playing incredibly well and Dach has surpassed expectations so this makes Strome expendable.
Holtz and Lundell are both 6' plus and 185lbs right now at the young age of 18. Surely they will put on 10lbs to 15 lbs and both should grow another inch. Kucherov is not a perfect example as both these kids are bigger then he was and frankly, I would love Kucherov on our team. That said, Holtz and Lundell both play a heavy game like Hossa.</div></div>
I don’t what it is, but I see that 3 players on the same line needing one to be a defensive forward as kind of a split thinking. I only say that because there are teams in the last 5 years that have won cups sporting lines that were all out offense. Pittsburgh immediately comes to mind. For that matter, isn’t ironic that Pittsburgh started to regress when they sold speed guys for big guys?
Dach is obviously suppose to take over for toews. For the sake of not digging a rabbit hole this debate can’t escape, I’ll just say people know how I feel about that happening. In no way do I think he’s the one to succeed toews nor is he a cup winner in the making.
I think your definitely spot with your assessments of holtz and lundell’s games. I will say, again, I hope your right and they do grow, cuz no one knows right? I do think with bowman in charge by the draft, he will probably draft another center and pull the swerve on all of us cuz he’s flat out nuts. Who knows anymore, so much faith is lost in this not so much due to the players but the people putting the players together.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ChiHawk</b></div><div>Holtz is 6' and 185lbs and just turned 18 late January, he will still grow
Lundell is 6'1" and 185lbs and turned 18 in October; again he will still grow
Both wingers are big boys for their age...at 22 years ago, they are going to grow another inch or two and put on 10 to 15lbs or more.
Defensively, short of a #1 LHD, the Hawks don't need more defensive players. The Hawks need to focus on possession, stop the turnovers and play the boards harder. The offense is weak in this area.
I think you could move Dach to the wing but are we doing that to fit in Strome? If so, makes zero sense IMO. Dach is already a better player then Strome so shouldn't Dach play the 2C going into next year? Then where does that leave strome? He's a terrible winger and relegating him to the 3C spot IMO is not letting him grow and wasting cap space. I'd trade Strome for a team needing a 2C and get back a couple bigger winger prospects.
Hawks need to start focusing on long term and not these short term stop gaps to try to make the playoffs like Bowman has been doing.</div></div>
First off, you and I are completely on the same page with bowman. Definitely need to think long term. Bowman is too worried about his job to think like that it seems.
Having said that, strome is really like a double edged sword. Firstly, under no circumstances would I play strome without both cat and Kane between him. We’ve seen how well that line played last year, and it has been good this year. However, of course, where does that leave Dach? This is part of the reason I didn’t want Dach in the first place. Originally, I said we didn’t need a center, to which many said you never have too much of a good thing (strange how we never mention that with our defense). When we picked him, the inevitability was that Dach and strome couldn’t both be retained. So what is it? Did we need a center? Or do we need to find a way to play both? Do they just not both have a place together? The second edge is that if we are actually treating strome like the black sheep due to Dach, then I genuinely don’t think anyone should give us the type of value this jets trade entails. That’s just my two cents.
I don’t disagree with the wingers winning board battles. Just a very cruel reminder of how good hossa was.
As for holtz and lundell, I hope your right. The one thing I’ve noticed the last few years is that many European players don’t actually tack on the extra size as often. Pettersson is isnt much heavier than when he was drafted. Kucherov is a perfect example as he was about 165 at draft time and is not even 180 now.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ChiHawk</b></div><div>And how much of keeping the puck out of the net or keeping shots against at a minimum is attributed to playing a strong possession game in the neutral and offensive zone? How many times are we pinned in our own zone for 90 seconds at a time? We need bigger wingers, wingers that win board battles. While I agree defense is a problem, I also see us losing way too many board battles offensively, getting out muscled up front.
I will say this; with a healthy Keith, DeHaan, Boqvist, Mitchell, Murphy, and a 6th and 7th man inclusive of Seabs, Seeler, Gilbert, Carlsson, Koekko....we should have a capable defense and one that is puck moving. Problem is, when you have guys like Debrincat, Strome, Kampf, Kane, turning pucks over and not winning board battles and not playing defense then it won't matter. Toews has been brilliant, but after him offensively, who do we have left playing that kind of game? Saad, Carpenter...Dach is emerging and getting good defensively. I give Kane a pass because of his upside in other areas, but Strome and Cat have been hugely problematic this season without the upside like Kane. If we can trade Strome and get a mid 1st rounder and a pretty good forward prospect (Vesalainen who's not a stud prospect but he's big), then it is worth it. We go into the draft and take two bigger forwards like Holtz and Lundell, that is 3 forward prospect wingers for the future that all have size and play the boards. Outside of Saad, we don't have wingers like this and need them.</div></div>
Well, I’ll grant you that the problem with the hawks is in all three zones. No puck movers or battle winners in the defensive zone, zero speed through the neutral zone, and awful puck possession in the offensive zone. It’s not a problem one, two, or even three big wingers can solve. A lot still has to change with this team to even think about consistently competing.
You could just move Dach to wing. Also, holtz and lundell are both either 6 feet or just under and neither weighs over 185, so I’m not sure these are the “big” wingers you’ve been talking about.